Morning guys. Read last 2 posts with much interest. As she's away at the minute we text each other two or three times a day eith just how you doing, what you doing type of stuff but last two days i have also sent her a picture of the dog playing or looking cute (she really misses and loves the dog. Also told her that i stayed home last night to play with dog and this probably shocked her a little as i would normally go out with it being Friday. Little things like that must get in her mind that i am trying to change. One concern with the animals is that she is very atttached to them, but when she left (6 weeks) i had an AO and told her to get rid of them (as i know it would really tear at her heart strings). I used this as a guilt trip type thing to try and get her to change her mind. She agreed which really shocked me as i know how strong her feelings are for them all. I now know this was sooooooo wrong but i made amends when i pleaded with her not to put the "looking for a new home" poster up.
Ok, LITW. I have told her nearly exactly what you have posted above but with no reaction. Maybe i was not in the right frame of mind and would always say it with tears in my eyes and when she said no i would breakdown and cry and plead. I will try again when i feel the time is right and will stay calm and focused and not let emotion creep in. I need to imagine i am talking to the dog or something. I have always had a very soft personality and i even cry at Extreme Makeover Home Edition so i guess i'm a bit of a wuss really!
She's back topmorrow and she is coming round to drop the car back. I thought that was a nice offer of me and i'm sure she appreciates it. This was a good move i feel as it subconciously it must be screaming at her that i am a nice genuine fella with concerns for her. I also offered her some money if she was short so she could have a good time but she said she was ok. Not so sure that was a good idea as she prob felt i was fathering her again? I told her i was worried about her and she thanked me and gave me a big hug and said it was a nice gesture but she was ok.
BTW i am convinced there is NC thats why i need to plan A like no tomorrow.
I feel alot better about myself today. Maybe it was the 5 minute chat to God last night or maybe because i had a good nights sleep or maybe i can see a candle flickering at the end of a very long tunnel.
Anyway got to go, i need to start walking towards that light!
THANK YOU ALL AGAIN. YOU GUYS ARE REALLY HELPING ME MORE THAN YOU COULD IMAGINE.
Without you i would still be throwing in the guilt trips and AO and i would never meet her EN's thus pushing us further apart, i feel now we are moving in the right direction together. Bye for now

Hi preparing my please come home speech for tomorrow and wondered if anyone can help with the answers to all the inevitable questions. Would be good to have more insight on these than just my take if you know what i mean
"I know you love me but I can't change my feelings"
"It's not you its me"
"Too much water under the bridge"
"I just want to be on my own"
"I can see no way forward, i just can't see it working out"
"I'm happy apart why would i want to come home and be unhappy again"
"You're a lovely man, move on, you will find someone soon"
"I just can't do it!"

Text messaging today
Me "Love you.missing you, wish you were here with me"
Reply None
Me "Hows it going whats plans for tonight?"
Reply "Just gone out for a few drinks and maybe a bit of a boogie. Hope you've had a good day"
Me "Yeah had a good day. Enjoy your boogie. I'm here for you if you need me. Look forward to seeing you tomorrow. Trust me i'm a good man with your intentions at heart. Your a great person you know that! Love you"
Reply : No reply
Me : "Please realise i am looking after the animals for us. It costs alot of money bit i don't care! I need you but you choose to ignore me!"
Reply : "I'm not ignoring you only just got your texts. Only just got one from the other day "
Me "I'm not ok. It would hurt less if i didn't love but i do. I know love is in there"
Still awaiting reply.
No LB just honesty
Please comment on comments i am preparing hard and need some experienced answers to my questions. I know what i'd say but just some simple comments would maybe give me the RIGHT answers. Please please please comment, I will not judge, just absorb. Thanks

Women do not love men they don't respect. This needy, clingy sappy stuff needs to stop. You are not showing love, you are making her want to throw up.

sad_pillgrim.

Get a hold of yourself. BIGK is right. You are being clingy and needy again, in spite of continous warnings that it will not serve your Plan A well if you do this.

We know your heart is bleeding all over the floor, many of us have been there and done that long before you.

Plan A is not about being the doormat for your WW to wipe her feet on. You need to man up and stop this. What she needs now is the lighthouse to come home to, not a needy person who will smother her. Do you understand this?

Why do you think she does not reply to your needy Q's? She wants no part of that right now.

Be the man she can admire and respect, nothing else, OK?

All Blessings,
Jerry

BK and shinethrough, i hear what you are saying. I needed that kick in the butt. Just gets to me sometimes and i do go down the begging sad man routine route but i will take heed of your words and stand up for myself. I will need to pull on all my reserves of strength but i am convinced i will do this right. Spoke to W this morning and she is returning from trip in next few hours so will try LITW's come home chat. We spoke like old times this morning about what i'd been doing and what she had and no i love you, need yous in sight. Big day for me but if she won't come back i will smile and carry on chatting about other things. Maybe when she goes back to FIL's she will mull it over in her head. Wish me luck will report back later on today.

Well heres the update of this evenings chat we had. After dropping car off she came in for a cup of tea and fuss with the animals. We sat in our living room chatting about her weekend, impending work etc etc and then i asked
"I know it took alot of courage and strength to move out. I respect that and it has given me lots of time to assess the situation and myself. I have had a good look at me and seen some things i do not like. I am in the process of changing those things and i feel i am a lot better person for it. I would like you to give me the oportunity to show you those changes that i have done and am still doing, but the only way i can show you these is if you were to come home. Here we can meet each others emotional needs and i can show you that i am the man you fell in love with and the husband you deserve."
Her reply "I know what you want me to say but i have changed. I have changed alot over the years, i am now alot more confident person than i ever. I can't come home."
I said "All i am trying to do is work on my marriage, i don't mind staying in the spare room if you feel sleeping with me is a problem. We just need to be together and work on our marriage."
"Its not what i want any more"
"Well please think about what i've said" She agreed.
I left the M talk at that. During the whole conversation i looked at her and smiled. No LB, no AO and no DJ.
Before the conversation i noticed she wasn't wearing her wedding ring and i asked why "I took it off to put some hand cream on and left it in my bag. I have been wearing it all weekend, honestly!" She was wearing her eternity ring that i bought her as a present while we spent our 10th wedding anniversary in London. Seems strange that she put that back on but forgot wedding ring??
So after a little more chat she had to shoot off and we had a hug and quick kiss and now shes gone again:-(
So i am sat here lonely again and trying to analyse what just went on. I also told her that i would not give up hope on our marriage and i will fight hard for what i believe in. I also asked if she would come round for dinner one night next week to which she replied i don't know we'll see.
Please guys i need your opinions on what you see. Feel free to comment no matter how small or big, good or bad a contibuition you make i will greatly accept all the help i can get.
So i leave you with that all to common a feeling of sick in the gut. :-(

SP, I think she's telling you something here. I think she sees an intimate relationship with you as some sort of trap, from which she's now free.

As for the ring issue, it's likely that she doesn't attach anywhere near the emotional signficance to it as you do. My FWW attached almost ZERO significance to the new wedding ring that I purchased for her.

I'm not any sort of relationship expert, but I think in this case "Plan A" stuff is likely going be seen by her as you trying to ensnare her again into the type of relationship she had before with you. I would suggest taking another approach, perhaps Plan B. Or, perhaps the next time M-talk comes up, you talk about YOU feeling like you're currently ensnared in a type of relationship that you're not comfortable with (a M where your W chooses to stay away from you), and you want to know what can be done to improve things.

Thanks for the advice MiM. She has said before that she felt trapped and i guess it did take a lot of courage to go. Now she has gone she feels that if she comes back she would be trapped again. I am continuing with Plan A as i am no where near ready for Plan B. I have dropped some flowers around to her F house this morning, she will get them when she gets home from work. Left a simple note with them "Hope these brighten your day. When you look at them think of me. Thinking about you x".
If she did feel trapped is there any advice from anyone as to how i can approach the situation without LBing.
I know this is a little different to alot of threads on here as i am sure there is no one else now involved, it is just a case of falling out of love with someone and wanting to move on.
PLEASE GUYS KEEP THE ADVICE COMING, I NEED YOU ALL NOW, HAVING SOME VERY DARK DAYS AND NIGHTS AFFECTING MY JUDGEMENT AND COMMON SENSE. I NEED A POKE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Hi Evo,
I am so sorry i was not around this weekend... it is hard for me to get onto the computer when i have so many other things to do.....

first of let me say... I AM PROUD OF YOU!!! it sounds like you stayed calm and collect through your conversation...

next let me say what BK said was right on target..... you MUST control this.


okay she is telling you something here.... You need to aknowledge that she is not the same person you married. In fact... neither of you are! as people grow they change that is a fact of life.... Can you appreciate that she is not the 16 year old girl you first new and now is a grown, strong, confident, women? If so, tell her that.... tell her you dont want your relationship to be the same but to evolve to include this new her and you.

so the previous relationship is not what she wants.. so ask her what exactly is it that you want now?

you are going to have to stay strong... you have to show her you are a strong Man (not the boy she first fell in love with). That you too are not the same person....

you are going to need to be her friend before you can be her lover...... step by step

LITW

Dude...seriously, while this makes you feel like you're showing her how much you love her, right now, that's NOT how she's going to take it. This is the stuff that comes across as 'needy' right now.

Stop with the flowers and such for now...or limit yourself drastically. Instead, focus on meeting her needs where you can. Be someone she can talk to safely. LISTEN to what she says, respond back accordingly. Be someone she can safely spend time with...someone she can have fun with.

That's going to help you rebuild things far more than flowers will at this point.

And...work on the things in yourself that will make you more attractive to her as well. Start working out if that's something you enjoy...start spending time doing things that YOU want to do...without her at first. Invite her later, but start them up on your own.

Trust me...THIS is the carrot of plan A.

Hey pilgrim,

Hah, sounds like I’m channeling John Wayne.

I think a recap is in order.

1. Your W had an affair and moved out. This is so she can either continue the affair or pick it up again at a moments notice. There is also the possibility she discovered she liked the affair feelings and would rather be single now, and have new adventures. So far, she is on WW script, including the carrots she dangles in front of you so she can fence sit as long as possible.

2. You have not exposed to OM family, friends or work.

3. You are not demonstrating consistency in your personal improvements of Plan A. Oh, you now understand meeting her ENs, and you appear to be trying to eliminate LBs. But, what she sees is mostly talk with little action. You need to plan out what you are going to do to become the person you want to be. What self improvements are you going to embark upon so she eventually finds you more interesting than OM? This is not an overnight endeavor. You need to plan ahead and start taking steps. She will eventually notice.

4. You are groveling. That’s an LB in itself.

5. You have not called the MB counseling center for professional advice. Remember, you get what you pay for, especially around here.


Hmm, I’ll stop now. It’s not all negative. For example she has not filed for divorce yet, right?

You are doing pretty well considering you started deep in a hole.

She is unsure. She wants more from marriage than she has experienced. She does not trust words. She will only respond to actual changes and perhaps the beginnings of change.

Does she want children? Does she want passion? Does she want recreational companionship? Does she want a husband she is proud of?

What will you show her, not just tell her?

What does she want? How do you find out?


What do you want?

I am sure you want all these things too. I believe you want to try your best to save your marriage so you have no regrets no matter how it turns out.

Your best bet is to stick to plan A for 4 to 6 months. Then be ready for Plan B.

Personally, I think you have a walk-away wife. She is trying to let you down easy. It is going to be difficult. Not impossible, but it will be painful. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Are you read to man up for the long haul?

With prayers,

Hi All

And thanks for the responses.

LITW.
Good advice again .But if she is not willing to look beyond the end of her nose how can i get her to discuss with me the details of what she wants in marriage and everyone tells me to keep the M and R talk to an absolute minimum. Sometimes the advice is a little confusing. Don't get me wrong i am glad for all the help and keep it coming. I keep reading thru this and lots of other threads and find the info very valuable.

Alphelion, i will try and answer some of your questions :

1. Correct

2. I do not even know the huys name so cannot expose his end. Done all i can to expose this end, her family, my family, friends

3. Ok. First plan is going to the gym. She won't notice an improvement but it will make me feel better about myself as the doctor said exercise also helps with depression. Part two is to dress nice and always look sharp in public ie clean shaved, tidy hair, a smile, nice clothes. Part three is continue to look after home and pets and carry out jobs at home that have been meaning to do for ages. Actually started doing that, carried out some repairs in the home and emptied/tidy garage so i can get car in (first time in 11 years. Part four??

4. Stop grovelling. The flowers were not intended to be seen as a grovel but instead my way of showing a little affection. The note was simple not pleading. I remember how her face used to light up when i bought her flowers when she was home. She has since thanked me for them.

5. Being on a very tight budget i cannot afford to call the MB counselling centre. I know that you cannot put a price on happiness but i just can't afford to take that path. We have a local Realte (MC service), do you think it would help if i sought advice from there on my own? Don't think wife will go along just yet as we used them once during our last major problem and she thought they were a waste of money.

We spoke about children before all this happened and she said she probably wants children one day but not just yet.
She acknowledges that i would be a great father and was sorry for not having any. Bear in mind this was during the 18 month "unhappy" period. I would love children.

Does she want passion? Not really, quite a simple person but a little never hurt anyone.

Does she want recreational companionship. A BIG YES. I will strive to accomplish this. If she tells me what she wants i wil support and assist but again at the minute she is very anti everything. I asked her tonight if she will come round for dinner tomorrow evening and after we can take the dog for a good walk. Her reply was I'll tell you later. Another put off so she doesn;t hurt my feelings i think!

Does she want a Husband she can be proud of? YES

I will show her by changes to my moods, even during conversation, just being happier and more jovial. She will see me about looking good.

What does she want? The only way i can find out what she wants is to ask her but at the minute all i get is i don't know. I honestly feel she has no direction and is probably waiting for something to happen be it another man or a change of career etc If i get to walk the dog with her tomorrow i will converse about her desires for the future, not in the M or R way but personal goals.

I agree with the walk away wife thing especially when she says that she still wants to be very good friends.

I am in this for the long haul no matter how long it takes. Just not the best with pain as not much history of it and find it very very hard to take.

I still believe that the week away and her staying here for the week is the key to the future. Any more ideas on this from anyone

Thank you

Another quick question i would appreciate comments on. FIL has to go in to hospital 30 miles away on Weds. for a knee operation. He will be in for a few days. I am going to visit him, would it be best if
a) I ask W if she wants to come with me or would this be like an emotional trap to her?
b) Visit on my own not telling W and let FIL tell her i have been or would this seem like i don't want to be with her?
Its probably one of those situ's where i can't win!

okay... oh boy.... what do i say...

I think that you have to go for the friend route.... you do have to limit the M or R talk but when you do have those talks you have to know what topics you need to cover (ie what does she want)... The "i dont know" line.... I invented that line!!!! I still use that line all the time.... i find that i use it because i am so numb inside that i really dont know, OR I do know but am scared to say due to the reaction i may get.

A few years ago I read a book called: The Walk-Out Woman : When Your Heart is Empty and Your Dreams Are Lost (by Dr. Steve Stephens and Alice Gray). Maybe this is a book that can help her find where some of her emptyness is coming from. It is christian based and talks about trying to fix the marriage but with that title.... it was very compelling to me at a time when i thought i was right there.....

i do kind of feel that she is not being completely sincere with how she is feeling and that it almost seems that she is trying to string you along..... but i could be wrong.... honestly, i think you need to be firm in a loving way.... Dont let her play you.... she needs to know that regardless of what happens... you do still where the pants....

does that make sense?

the FIL thing.... send her a text... state when you are going.... let her make the decision....

Example(Hey im going to go see your dad at X time tomorrow... if you want to come let me know.)

NO LOVE YOU.... NO XXX or OOOO..... just a matter of fact.... one time text... put the ball in her court.

Cheers LITW. Will let you know how it goes. Just a thought about a massive personal improvement. I am going to stop smoking. I know it is hard and tried many times before but it is something i think that W would find more attractive in me. After all it does stink. And it is to be banned in all public places here in England from July 1st so no more smoking at work, pub or restaurants. Now is the time. I have another 80 to get rid of and then i need to get my [censored] and mind in gear and do it! It will be good for me too!!!! Only problem is i see the cigarette as a release at the minute, my only friend if you see what i mean. That is so sad i can't believe i am saying that. Need to find another release, exercise!!!!!! Oh yeah
But a small price to pay if it helps in my M, appeals to the W and also good for my health and pocket (About 9 dollars a pack of 20 here).

if you are going to stop smoking... dont smoke the remaining 80.... toss them, flush them, give them to a friend.... today it will be just the last 80... tomorrow it will be oh just this last pack.....

i do understand what you are saying about a release.... but i think exercise is a good option as far as the release.... get a small punching bag... hang it somewhere and if you cant get to the gym start punching at it and I gaurantee after a couple rounds you will have gotten a release.... also make sure to stock up on carrots... i hear that it is not the addiction people have the problem with, but the hand to mouth action... so make sure you have carrots so you dont start munching on what ever else is laying around.....

good luck with that... I am sure it is hard but anything is possible...

keep me posted!

Quick update. Good news! Just got text and W has agreed to come round for dinner tomorrow night. She explained she can't stay too long tho due to FIL going in hospital day after but any time together is a bonus. Why do i feel nervous about it, just like those early dates! Will be me, happy kind and no M talk. Come on, first small step. Also asked her if i could take FIL to save his GF having time off work. Wait and see what answer is. I feel really bad about her FIL, we always got on great but over the last couple of years i have neglected him in a very selfish way. When we were invited round for dinner i would stay here vegging on the sofa and she would go. She told me since that this was one of the major factors in our problem. But since i have done lots more with him. Played golf with him, I wired his extension and helped him fit his kitchen. So all i can do is try and reassure her by my actions and not words that i am there for her and her family. Must go iron a nice shirt!

Good for you SP. Keep it like a friendly date.

Good on the smoking too. Quitting is a definte positive. It will be hard though. One of my smoker friends says, quiting smoking is easy, he's done it thousands of times.

LITW, "i hear that it is not the addiction people have the problem with, but the hand to mouth action" Not true. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances there is. It is metabolised into a precursor of dopamine. The very same drug of the fog.