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#1832659 02/28/07 03:31 PM
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“You’ve invaded my privacy” the wayward spouse says! “How could you read my email? How dare you look at my cell phone records. I’ll never be able to trust you again”.

[They] won’t be able to trust [You]! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

On one level….it’s laughable WS babble. On the other hand, the BS often does feel guilt and regret about having to snoop. The WS uses those feelings to their advantage. But you haven’t invaded their privacy.

You’ve invaded their secrecy

And they don’t like it.

Married people are entitled to privacy....but not, but not secrecy.

The true concept of privacy never implies keeping secrets. In fact, just the opposite is true. What is divinely inspired and ripens in privacy, is later always opened up and shared with others. It is never meant to be hidden. Only dishonesty, lies, negative intentionality and destructiveness of one sort or another, need to be hidden from others. Nothing that is true and beautiful needs to be kept secret. Not ever.

The wayward spouse uses a simple truth: that we all need some privacy and creates real evil by using truth to cover a lie. What usually happens is that privacy is used to camouflage the intention of keeping secrets. In other words, secretive people will use the right and need for privacy to conceal that they really are keeping something secret.

Secrecy and privacy are not too difficult to distinguish from each other.

A rule of thumb to distinguish the two is to ask: is this fact about me important in this relationship at this time?

There’s a big difference between closing the door to the bathroom, and closing a window on the computer so your spouse can’t see your secrets. All secrets involve private information, but what makes them secrets is that the withheld personal information is important to actions in the relationship. It’s privacy if you ask your husband to hang up the phone extension when you’re chatting with a friend. It’s secrecy if you’re going to tell that friend personal things about your marriage.

Secrecy is a tool, which is commonly used in trying to escape consequences.

Secrets always hide something negative, that's why they're secrets.




Those who keep a secret fear the truth because they know they have no intention of changing.

They are dishonest because they know that others may react to what is hidden and they wish to avoid this.

Keeping secrets is finally….an emotional theft.

It helps us feel less vulnerable and usually stems from old baggage and shame.

It is cheating to secure a result that cannot or will not come about if the secret is disclosed. Keeping secrets also avoids the effort and responsibility of finding an equitable, honest solution in which others can participate.

Secrets are always antithetical to relationship, to intimacy, to real and fulfilling contact. Secretive people are never fulfilled emotionally. They keep a wall of separation between themselves and others and then wonder why the feel so alone and misunderstood. They often blame others for this state and use it to justify secretiveness, instead of doing the only valid and meaningful and intelligent thing: spill out all secrets and make themselves as transparent as possible.

[b]So, next time they say you've invaded their privacy....tell them "No, everyone deserves privacy. I've invaded your secrecy!"

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good one!

*Fish

you wrote a nice post about Giver/Taker (? on EN board ?)

do you have it handy?

thx

Pep

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Is this it?

Dat be it

thank you kind lady
I now have it added to my favorites for quick reference

Pep

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good post

Privacy: You'll know what I'm doing; I'll just be alone while I'm doing it (nap, toilet, shower, etc.)

Secrecy: I'm doing stuff that I don't want you to know about.

Big difference.
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Very articulate and powerful essay, Lady.

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There’s a big difference between closing the door to the bathroom, and closing a window on the computer so your spouse can’t see your secrets.

That concise little explanation should take its place alongside Dr. Phil’s, “If you wouldn’t do it with your spouse standing there, it’s cheating.” The image you create to demonstrate the difference between privacy and secrecy is something everyone can recognize as being intuitively correct and manifestly irrefutable.

Kudos!

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A rule of thumb to distinguish the two is to ask: is this fact about me important in this relationship at this time?

My problem in life is that I can't seem to give my secrets away! What I think is important about me in the relationship (ie. my feelings/emotions/thoughts) are often not considered important by my H. He's more interested in facts/data/actions rather than my wild and wacky thought life.

Alas, secrecy might be a theft but what happens when you can't give them away for trying!?

Mys

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Excellent post, star*fish... I've ALWAYS had difficulty telling the difference... this makes it much clearer...

PS: My problem was about my boundaries... not *keeping secrets* from my spouse... but knowing when to shut up and NOT say something. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



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mys,

My husband is the same way. He always wants the "executive summary" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nb,

I'm like that too....I'm SUCH an open book that sometimes it's just TMI....especially for my engineer husband.

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My husband is the same way. He always wants the "executive summary"

Actually, this brings up a bit of a problem. Somehow, you have to figure out a way to balance information.

For example: If my H gives me what he 'naturally' thinks is important to the relationship -- then I feel like he's withholding information that I'd like.

If I give him what I 'naturally' think is important to the relationship -- then he feels flooded with lots of minutia that he doesn't know what to do with.

Yet, if I ask him to give him what I want and offer to give him what he wants then 1.) he doesn't know where to get all that extra information and feels harrassed. and 2.) I feel emotionally stifled.

I've yet to solve this issue satisfactorily. What do you do?

Mys

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bump

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My husband is the same way. He always wants the "executive summary"

Actually, this brings up a bit of a problem. Somehow, you have to figure out a way to balance information.

For example: If my H gives me what he 'naturally' thinks is important to the relationship -- then I feel like he's withholding information that I'd like.

If I give him what I 'naturally' think is important to the relationship -- then he feels flooded with lots of minutia that he doesn't know what to do with.

Yet, if I ask him to give him what I want and offer to give him what he wants then 1.) he doesn't know where to get all that extra information and feels harrassed. and 2.) I feel emotionally stifled.

I've yet to solve this issue satisfactorily. What do you do?

Mys

what a timely post FOR me, Mys.
I am waiting to hear a response.

My H will gladly give me the 'executive summary'... and then some... about topics i am not terribly interested in....maybe they are things that he "naturally" thinks ar eimportant to the relationship.
he gets frustrated when i ask for more intimate conversation ......So...I find myself TRYING to not ask.....but....that often leads to me feeling frustrated or.... something...??.... resentment maybe?

he often gets bothered whan i offer my feelings.....maybe becuse he can not solve them.....so, i find myself TRYING not to share. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
which leaves me feeling.......frustrated.
How can I handle this better?

Last edited by nia17; 03/01/07 02:09 PM.
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mys,

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Yet, if I ask him to give him what I want and offer to give him what he wants then 1.) he doesn't know where to get all that extra information and feels harrassed. and 2.) I feel emotionally stifled.

I've yet to solve this issue satisfactorily. What do you do?

I'm not sure whether you'll think this is much of a solution.....but....I don't try to solve it. I accept the fact that we don't communicate the same way.

I'll say too much.
He'll say to little.
I'll want more from him.
He'll want less from me.
But it's okay to me.
And it seems okay to him too.
We like each other, in addition to loving each other, and we understand and tolerate each other's idiosyncracies and gender differences.

What you're describing is rather typical of both genders. I'm not saying that men or women are locked into these stereotypes, but it may have something to do with the differences in brain function associated with problem solving.

nia,

Quote
he often gets bothered whan i offer my feelings.....maybe becuse he can not solve them.....so, i find myself TRYING not to share.
which leaves me feeling.......frustrated.
How can I handle this better?

Yes nia....I understand/have experienced this too. But H and I know each other. I've come to expect him to get bothered because he can't fix me....and he surely expects me to be over emotional or confounding. However, these are very temporary reactions that I don't think either of us get bogged down in.

I'm not much help am I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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Men want --- Bullet points

Women want --- every single detail, including what was worn and/or eaten, and how you felt about "that".

SD


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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I linked this for someone on EN....and thought I'd just bump it while I was here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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C'est ce bon! Good stuff here...

This was the biggest issue we had...he was calling OW b/c "I" was checking the cell bill...not transparency...what a bumper that we are were we are today...

Oh, well...it all works out for the best! Great insight...but I know how confused I was in the beginning! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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bumping for HM, jcas and Whatnext

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BUMP


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