Aw, Mom, I feel so bad for you. It's so hard to forgive yourself when you don't really feel it from your BS. Maybe you did though.
My FWW seems to hate me visiting these boards so much too. It's strange, sometimes she understands that the support herer is helpful to me, then she will turn around and tell me that it bothers her. It gets confusing. Maybe I (we) should take a little break here, I'm not sure.
I have learned though that on certain nights that are bad, justgo to bed and start over the next day.
I wrote about my bad night on Friday when I tried to discuss the A with her and how it went bad. But this morning she woke up and hugged me and told me that she loved me.
All part of the roller coaster ride I guess.
Stay strong Mom, I'm rooting for you!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Your sig line, Pep.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />





Did I mention it was a nice buck? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mom,

How's it going? What happened last night? Please check in....sent an email but have not heard from you.

No time to post much but wanted to let you know we're all concerned.

Ace

My apologies, MomAZ. Before posting to Pep here, I had read only the first few posts, which seemed pretty happy and cheery. I did not mean to TJ while you are having a hard time. Sorry.

I bet you did not know that this reaction of his is NORMAL for your timeline ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

and

I bet you did not know that this reaction of his has NOTHING to do with forgiveness ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

THIS reaction and behavior is his way of expressing his deep pain that still exists.

He is still hurting.

and being a guy, he has fewer coping skills to express vulnerability and hurt ... we women have our girlfriends to go to ... our husbands can't go to their guy friends and say ... "I am just so hurt in my heart and I feel so weak and lost."

YOUR husband is feeling weak & lost ... PLEASE MomAZ, do not make this about YOU ...

If you tell him you are open to him expressing his feelings, and when he does (negative and embarrasing feelings for him) ... you get HURT ... well, guess what? He will go somewhere else and express those feelings.

He knows from experience that you are devestated hearing how much he is hurting, then your remaining guilt puts you on the floor, and your husband has lost his supportive spouse.... BE the supportive spouse EVEN when he says unflattering things ... it does not make them true, remember, he's venting hurt ... and everyone gets childish when hurt.

You must suck it up when he feels hurt & lost & vulnerable ... and make that conversation all about HIS feelings....

Every betrayed spouse has humungous doubts about taking their betrayer back and loving him/her ... every single one

we feel like a fool
we feel like we've green-lighted future betrayals
we feel like we cannot trust our own judgement
we feel like we will always be second best
we feel inferior to the OP (even the skankiest ones)

but, not forever

RECOVERY IS HARD

and this is still recovery

Read Dr Laura's book

The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands

then work it

do NOT disallow your husband these feelings ~~~> they are the usual recovery feelings for the betrayed

I have been recovered 11 years ... you cannot consider yourselves completely recovered yet

Pep

Your H is vulnerable to have an affair.

Here is my strong recommendation ~~~> call the Harleys

get professional advice

Pep

Mom,

As a BS I can tell you that it is possible to have doubts a long time after you've started working on recovery. It is also possible that your H was simply trying to say something comforting to someone in a similar situation. It also may be that he meant what he was trying to say to you about it but just wasn't very good at saying it so you would get it...not a guy thing to begin with, this "feelings" stuff.

Or it could be that he's searching on the Internet for answers and a solution to what has now become known to him as a problem, having never considered it before, and since you are here, he is looking for an alternative that gives him a forum to vent, learn, express and heal. Without talking to him, I'd have no way of knowing, but consider this, we are all here, whether BS, WS or FWS trying to learn and grow to make things better, with luck maybe even right. I'm sure that if my W knew everything I ever said on this site, she'd be full of questions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Since we weren't masters of communication before the A, we may not be very good at doing it now. It could be that for your H, the admission that he completely lost it and grovelled with the lowest of us when he felt that he was losing you is cause for celebration. I think it LIKELY as a BS and a guy, that something this woman said simply resonated with him in some way and he felt like he should reply, whether for his own benefit, hers or that of other readers.

I can tell you that for me, the days following Dday were the worst days of my life. I questioned every decision I ever made. And now, 10 months and change later, I still sometimes wonder if I made the right choice in deciding to go through all this recovery work. I sometimes consider the possibilities if I had let her leave the couple of times early on in our M that she said she wanted out. I wonder what my life would have been like if I'd left her at her mother's house in the spring of 1973 and had hitch hiked to Colorado instead of chasing her halfway across the country.

But then I have days like yesterday, just me and W; no kids, no work, no MB stuff, no hobbies or projects. It was just us, doing whatever struck our fancy and making each other's day as enjoyable as possible...

That doesn't mean that this afternoon I won't be trying to call her on her cell phone, she won't answer it and I'll be left frustrated and asking myself "Why do I even bother?" It isn't an insurmountable obstacle and isn't even a speed bump, only a minor "THUMP" as we drive along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Just my take on possible answers. It could have been worse...You might have found an email from him to an old flame thanking her for the good time the night before.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mark

[color:"green"]Dday - May 22, 2006 [/color]

the anniversary of D day is looming

landmines ahead
watch your step
stay alert
weather prediction : cloudy, with chance of thunderstorms and flooding

No worries, I figured that's what happened and I've done it myself...

Pep, I got this posting in my email notifications but don't see it anywhere here.

Just to clarify, My H has NOT ever had an A (certainly not that I'm aware of). Oddly enough, I have always been paranoid about that, my insecurities. There was an incident prior A, where I came across an email where he was meeting someone from an online group he was on while he was on a business trip. The email was innocent. He claims it was supposed to be a get together in Chicago for this internet group that he chatted on but that only this one lady showed up (supposedly a snowstorm). I was pretty livid about that, but I had to take his word for it, there was no evidence of anything. I was quite upset that he never told me about it, I just found out.

As for current events, he finally came home at about 1am. We talked some, he insists he doesn't mean he regrets staying with me but regrets how he handled things (being emotional) and he posted while he was working and sounded bad. I acknowledged that I understood he could still be hurt and he could talk to me. I think maybe he was venting. He told me he blames himself for my A, which I thought was odd considering what he said in the posting, but...I think, like all of us, he has conflicting emotions and hasn't sorted them all out. I have always thought he hadn't really dealt with what happened himself but didn't want to push.

I told him my A wasn't his fault, he was justified in his feelings etc...

Mark, a lot of what you said makes sense.

I KNOW

I got your timeline mixed up with Rockbottom's timeline ... I fixed my post

Pep

Rb's timeline:

Me-BS/FWH -41
WW/ BS - 40
D-Day Oct 08 2006
My D-Day Oct 23 1994
2 DDs (5 & 12)
Married 17 yrs
Together 24 yrs


just an error ... looked back at the 2006 date & saw the wrong one

Pep, you help so many of us, it's no wonder you get a few details crossed up.

Have we ever told you thanks for your commitment? You and other veterans have literally saved multiple marriages by just caring, even if/when we all start getting our sitchs confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mom....you sound so confident in most of your posts that I just assumed you were way into recovery, but I just realized that your D Day is only 5 weeks before our first one. You're doing great and we can make it......together.

Thanks to all,
Ace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

M2AZ,

What if...

Your BH is hitting his anger phase...where he trusts you enough not to leave if he comes clean, highest honesty, and allows himself to share some deep anger?

What if he still feels judgment...where he calls to talk, you're out...and he calls again, to share...you're out...and when you're back and talking, he feels upset with the timing, not with you and hangs up?

That he dared to hang up...that he is really allowing his emotions to be seen and known by him...which can trigger his post on that other board about wishing he wasn't so emotional last year...because he wishes he wasn't so emotional now...seems unending, chaotic, not clean or clear.

Being there for him through it all, present, safe, aware not judging...not leaping...standing still...that's the amends you may have been looking for all along...to do this...to know you're not causing his emotionality right now...to see he deals as he deals...not in your control...and what is in your control...

Did you share your fear of him having an A now? Did you share how your fear leapt up from him being out until 1am, and you know your triggers...to your own behaviors...the shutting out...so you feel shut out?

Two humans in a human marriage...know your own stuff...be safe to be shared with...non-reactive...actively listening...and maybe his anger spoken, shared, will bring your marital healing further, honesty higher, connection deeper.

Depends on how you choose to see his actions...instead of as the truth...his choices...as you trying to change his actions. Know them first. No DJs...no downward spirals.

Often we distrust when we are not being trustworthy to ourselves...knowing the past for what it was...not happening now. Knowing our signals, not living and reacting from them...really getting them...and choosing to believe you both are on the same team...you are each other's allies, not enemies.

Stay present. Share. Listen and repeat.

You can do this.

Check your expectations that while you have been doing this, you've been expecting him to heal...thrive...without all the stages of grieving, which is what you both are going through...get through your own.

We believe in you.

LA

Yup, that's my yucky timeline.

My wife went through similar feelings of guilt etc at around the same point (timeline) as you. She really struggled with forgiving herself. That passed as she worked through it all with the asistance of some other FWW's.

Just wanted to chime in! Mom A-Z We've had a bad weekend also. But, we came through it again...I'm getting better at hearing pain and confusion and not attacks. But, what I want to say is that prayer makes a big difference. Everytime that my BH starts heading down what we call "the hole" of depression or pity, I call in reinforcements. I call the moms!!! EVERYTIME. Me, my mom and his mom start praying and they counsel me through the hard days. (Both are BS - and recovered for 20+ years with great, happy entact marriages.) And, just like an answer to prayer I see him come out of the hole. I know God works in situations like these - he cares.

If you are not a Christian, I strongly suggest you get out your bible and start reading about God's forgiveness, if you really want to forgive yourself. If it just doesn't make since watch Passion of the Christ, or sit down with your kids and watch Chronicles of Narnia (this little movie is profound!!!) Chronicles makes me cry every time I watch it. It is all about betrayal of family and forgiveness.

Anyway! Mom, I'm praying for you!!!!! I'm praying for Trigirls and Des and everyother FWW that is out there. You can do this! This is hard, but God has promises about healing the brokenhearted - claim your healing, and believe and you can go on tomorrow!

Gotta love this board! Thanks again for every "angel" out there!

lilmom

How are you doin Mom?

Mom:

I read this post by you:



And then your later response when he returned.

HE's on Craiglist looking for help? I don't think so. Mark152 has a valid point about your BS looking for help. (And I hope that is the reason) But Craigslist ain't the place for it. And WHY did he have to open up a new account to do it? And then, why did he get all defensive? And showing up in a snowstorm for a meeting?

I think your H has walked outside of the lines. Not to the extent that you or I have, but he has been to the edge and peered over. May not have liked what he saw, or realized the horror of it all, but he has gone there. Please note, this is MY OPINION.

This troubles me:



Why does he feel he can go anywhere, anytime, for what ever length of time, without you knowing? I used this to my advantage. And now realize how dangerous it is. He may have been cheated on, but that doesn't give him the right to now do whatever he likes.

And then this:



You might have been. What has he done to fix this? And what reasons have you given him about having your affair? Are you sincere? Have you been consistent? Have you learned more about your motivations behind it from this website and need to modify some of those answers? And what have you done to NOT be a Bored SAHM?

Maybe with the new week, everything will be better....

LG

I too think he's very vulnerable and not protecting HIMSELF

CALL HARLEYS

really

Pep

Pep, sorry about the date thingie...oopsie! Should I delete that post?

Ace, FWIW I thought we were way into recovery too, I think we still are, I just realized that DH has issues he’s keeping to himself. I can’t help him if he won’t talk to me about it. He keeps saying he wishes he could just forget about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He really doesn’t want to hear more I’m sorries either I think.

LA, I get what you’re saying, and it makes so much sense to me when I look at it that way. The timing wasn’t off on the calls though, I answered both of them right away. That’s been an area of big conflict (me not answering my cell/he had it turned off once, prior A for that), so I keep it on my person and answer it right away when he calls. (Also, so he can feel safe I’m not talking to anyone else). Also, the calls came after his post.

I never DJ his feelings. I’m always open to listening, I’ve said that over and over. He just plain doesn’t want to talk about it...no more drama he says. At first I was hurt by that and took it as him not wanting to work on “us” but looking at it through LA eyes, I see that may just be his way of coping, especially since he feels so ashamed of how he acted after d-day. He feels he lost all dignity. He also doesn’t realize I’ve still been struggling with my own guilt. I tried talking some last night but he’s really at his limit with R talk, so I left it alone. I feel like we’re both struggling with emotions and we could help each other but he doesn’t want to delve into it. His coping mech is to bury it and hope it will go away. I certainly can’t force him.

I was initially hurt by what he said in his post, but I can’t begrudge him his feelings. They are what they are. It was just a surprise to me because he has never shared that with me. All I’ve heard is how happy he is and how good I am doing at meeting EN‘s, etc. But I see from what you’ve said LA, that he’s struggling too with conflicting feelings, happy for what we have now, but still dealing with some hurt and anger over what I did and shame at how he reacted.

BigK, thanks for your input. I think I can get through this. I was doing pretty well from my little setback until this other stuff came up with DH. Now my focus is on making sure he’s okay.


LilMom, both moms know about it but are both from the era of not talking about it, so that’s not going to happen. We all went to see Narnia, we have the series of books, we loved it. I tried to explain the symbolism to my oldest. I don’t think I’ve really prayed very much at all since this all happened. Not feeling worthy. But I think I’m gonna give it a try for my sake and DH’s.

LG, I don’t know where he got the bored SAHM from. I never said that. That must be his interpretation, or him venting his anger at me. I gave the standard ILYBINILWY excuse. I don’t know what to think about anything else. He wasn’t on craigslist looking for help. A local radio station he listens to often jokes about postings there (I’ve heard it myself) and he will look up what they’re talking about, so that’s why he goes there occasionally. It does concern me, as does Chicago, but he was there on business already and would’ve had to have gone out to eat regardless of the snow. When I found out about that, he insisted it was supposed to be a group get together for an IRC chat group he was on but because of the storm only one person showed, a female, who he claimed was huge and smelled. He said she contacted him about going to dinner the next night which he ignored. He said he didn’t tell me because he didn’t think it was any big deal. Huh?

So...what do I do? I’ve often worried about something happening then or some other time I do not know about. Even if he did do something or test the waters, I doubt he is going to admit it. I have good reason to believe that even if something ever happened (flirting etc.), it would’ve stopped short of physical contact and y’all will have to trust me on that one. I can’t sit and obsess over all of the possibilities, it will drive me crazy.

Rock, thanks for asking how I am. I see you had a rough night yourself, I will go check in on your thread. Yesterday we didn’t get through much of the morning without getting into it and so he decided to take the kids and go out. He did ask me to come with them but I decided we both needed a break. I did some stuff, saw a movie and felt a lot better when I came home. We’re kind of just avoiding any in depth M/R talk right now, I can tell he doesn’t want to go there and I have to admit I’m tired of all the emotions myself.

Mom