Who said God made it difficult.

We're fallible human beings with free will.

We're plenty capable of screwing things up all on our own!

Why? Well, let's think about this a second.

First off, punishment is not necessarily an unloving act. If I have a toodler who wants to keep trying to stick a fork in the electical socket...if I spank them, is that unloving? Of course not.

The second issue is that man (Adam and Eve) had the perfect marriage. Then they blew it. They were warned...but they decided to go their own way. And God honored their decision. Their freewill. And that also is a loving act! He honored their decision by letting what they had decided to do become a permanent part of marriage. They had decided to let the woman be the man, and the man be the woman. So, God honored that decision by making it permanent. Or so it would seem!!

You see, the third issue is that since we got ourselves into this mess...God lovingly provided a way out. Look, at any time we could choose to love our spouses the way God intended. And there would be no problem. But we dont choose to make that choice. None of us do!! We try...but we never make it!

So, what is the answer to all of this? Well, it is the age old answer to all of life's questions...Jesus! We put ourselves into a no-win situation, God honored our decision...and we want to know why God doesnt love us. Huh? He loved us enough to honor our decisions.

And then He added even more love by offering us a way out of our predicament. He didnt have to. He could have left us right where we made our bed. But, in love...He offered His son.

Which is why a marriage is not about two people...but three. The ONLY way I can love my wife as Christ loves the church (as is commanded of me) is thru the strength and knowledge of Christ. I am TOTALLY dependent on Him. I cannot do this myself.

All of life points back to Him. The meaning of life...is Him!

So, the answer to your question is that in the end of all of this, these things exist because it helps point us toward Him. And in Him is peace, in Him is the perfect marriage.

Hope that helped!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
thanks.
I am not so sure NOW understood.

I take issue w/ men trying to call themselves simple....simple is stupid.
i think it's a cop out.
men have so much more potential in my book.

Not being a mindreader, we will have to wait for Nia to clarify just what it was that she was trying to say.

If it happens to be along the lines of "we can't trust what is in the Bible because there have been many errors in translation," then that opinion could be addressed.

If it has anything to do with "men" not understanding how to translate, I'm not sure what to say about that other than one needs to be careful regarding WHAT Bible is used and how it was translated.

Last thought concerns the authority of the Bible. There is no more thoroughly documented "book" if one is just looking at it from an "historical" position, related to the accuracy of translations. It goes beyond that, however, in that the Bible IS the Word of God, as attested to by Jesus Christ himself. So the "basis" of faith in what God has communicated to us is integrally tied to one's "view" of the Bible itself, whether or not it is inerrant and the inspired Word of God to mankind.

God bless.

simple as the opposite of complicated

not simple as the opposite of smart

I'm with you, Nia... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My H washes all of the clothes..when he was gone, my YS said: "You don't keep the clothes washed like Daddy".. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> HE LOVES IT WHEN I THANK HIM FOR MY CLEAN-SMELLING SLACKS!!!



Mom..I think this is a GREAT WAY TO EXPLAIN IT!!

Agreed, Nia! That is why I dont like the word. We are different. Our ways may SEEM simple...but they are not. It is like a duck on the water. Calm and serene on the surface...paddling like crazy underneath. That's the way we men are.

Sure, this is sterotypical...and you can always find the exception to the rule. But, there are basics to men that make them men. Men just arent men because of their plumbing. Same with women. There are some constants to who we are and how we behave.

So, I agree the word SIMPLE doesnt do us justice!

That's what I mean, it wasn't that God said "This is what I'm going to make happen", like a curse/punishment...it was Him allowing us to face the consequences of our own decisions, allowing free will.

So it is a punishment we have brought down upon ourselves, not one from God.

Unless one thinks God's "allowing" is some sort of punishment in itself. (which I don't!)

Ok, and this is why i want to get my marriage counseling from the Bible, ya know? Because humans are so flawed, even when it "sounds" good, it might not be.(I'm thinking about MB here, and myriads of other experts!)

NOW

Yeah...what Pep said!

Oh Nia, I understand what you're saying about men not being as "simple" as all that....I agree it IS more a personality trait than a "man" thing.

What I have trouble with is where the giver/taker theory fits in with what the Bible says, especially where marriage is concerned.

We have to come up w/ a better word for Men.
Simple doesn't do you guys justice.

sounds like you are selling yourself short.
seems to me the only woman who would WANT a simple man is a woman who wants someone easy to manipulate.

.

You should always seek the truth in the Word!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm not saying that we didnt deserve it. Let me use an example...if I tell my kids that they will get punished if they do something...and then they do it...did they bring the consequences upon themselves? Of course! But, did I dole out the consequences? Of course!

Too often, we think that because we have freewill, God doesnt. That He has a hands off approach. But Scripture tells a different story! He said in that passage I listed above that "I will..." That means that the punishment was doled out by His hands. We received the consequences...but it was Him that doled them out.

And that indeed...is loving and just.

What do you mean by this? Where is your trouble with this? I am interested in your take on this, as I have always seen the principle of the Giver and Taker to be perfectly aligned with the Bible.

Please...do tell [Mortarman waiting patiently!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />]

How about "authentic"....as in, what you see is what you get?

Not sure that fits, but it sounds better.

I think Men are amazing creatures, really. They have always seemed to me to be realists, grounded, solid, genuine.
My husband is, anyway.
Or is that a personality trait too?

I tend to think this has a lot to do w/ literal interpretation.
I was raised catholic and went to cathoic schools in the 70's and 80's...I had a few old school nuns who were very literal about THIER interpretation of the Bible and catholic doctraine.
but the ones that left the BIGGEST impression on me were a young, fresh group of priests and nuns who were very different.....they were alla bout love and respect and when they interpretted the Bible the meaning always FELT different and positive.

Mortarman,

It is because of the biblical principle that says it is more blessed to give than to receive. It is because Christ met our needs without expecting us to meet any of His. It is because we are called to be like Christ. We are each to esteem the other more highly than ourselves.

What am I missing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nia, I hear ya! This happens in Protestant churches, too.

If something "feels" more positive, though, does that make it right?
Just here struggling with these big questions...don't mind me!
LOL!

Yes...what you say is true! Now, what is the principle of the Giver and Taker?

Great question!!!!!!!!!

By the way NOW, I am enjoying this thread and discussing this with you. So, please dont think that I am being combative or anything like that. I learn so much myself thru the interaction with other believers.