Vince,
OK don;t do it for yourself or WW, do it for me and BC. If we can;t find anything better to do than poke around on these boards, we need serious entertainment. I kept lifting while on the PlanA diet, felt really weak since I was not eating, vut registered for the Arnold 5K Pump and Run. Ended up tying my personal best for the lifting (18 reps at body weight) and crushed my personal best for the 5K (23:56).

Mrs GF noticed something was up as I ended up dropping 26 lbs and her friends were saying stuff to me at the Y like, "You look really lean, I mean not like you were fat before but lean." This was on a Tuesday before a girls night out out on Saturday. Probably my ego talking, but I am sure it made her think "he'mine, keep your dirty paws off!" when her friends were commenting on my physique...I get a kick out of imagining the conversation and that's what it is about, creating the energy to stick with my plan.

To build on GF, my MIL told me the other day that after the BDay party the neighbor flirting WAS the topic of conversation for the evening.

Day 97 - I'm beginning to feel a bit parched, but Wilson is keeping me company, I watch the waves......just kidding.

Uhhh...well, she emailed me yesterday around 3:30 after not initiating contact with me all week. She just said "Hi. Happy Friday. whats your plan for the weekend" I just replied with small talk and asked her to give me a cal and we could talk about the weekend. She said "ok...give me 20 mins..im soooooo busy". So, she didn't call again for 2 hours, but she called none the less. But at that point, I was already out with my friends and decided that now was not a good time to talk, so I let it go to voicemail. I still haven't checked the voicemail to see what it says. I never called her back and did not text message her late at night. So I would say I have done VERY well the last two days, and she is the one reaching out now. I am expecting a call before noon today, but we'll see. If not, oh well.

Feel a little more in control today, and I like that.

VS

Some major love busting today by me, but of course instigated by her, but I was just not strong enough to sidestep it.

I finally called her back at noon today (Sat) and wanted to see if she wanted to hangout tonight. She said maybe, why, do you want to? When I responded with "yes", she said, well, I told someone at work I would hangout with them probably. So I knew I was screwed and not going to see her tonight. Anyways, she was just in a bad mood. I asked her what she did last night, and she said basically nothing, and she asked what I did. I asked her what she was doing now and she said "taking back the rental" as she was getting her car fixed. Earlier in the week she told me it was a Ford Focus, but I had found out it was actually a different car. When I asked her why she lied about it. She initially denied and said "i don't know what car it is", then laster admitted "i wanted to see if you had someone still watching me and up in my [censored] (PI). So that started the love busting. She just started yelling and screaming and demanding that I stop talking to her mom and all sorts of things. I remained calm the whole time and just asked her why she was so mad and that she must of lied about the car to cover something up. I told her I would stop talking to her mom if she quit fuk!ng another guy and talking to him. To when she said "yup, same old Vince" I was like "why do you get to tell me to stop talking to your mom, but I cant tell you to stop cheating on me?" I mean, what I am doing isn't hurting anyone, what she is doing is hurting everyone! Anyway, that just got her more enraged. I remained calm and she just kept saying, I don't want to talk to you. I;m done. leave me alone. Never call me again. I tried to calm her down, but she just hung up. 5 mins. later, she called back and apologized for yelling and that she was just in a bad mood and that I need to just let her off the phone when she is like that. I told her that all my intentions in everything I do in say are good and to try and get my wife back. I told her she has no idea what it feels like to be me and how badly I hurt and to love and not only not be loved, but not even wanted to be talked to or be around. She said she was sorry and that she would call me later.

So, around 3, I decided I was going to text her, telling her i was taking her out and that she should come her, bring the dog, plan on staying over and we will take the dig to the park in the am. She responded with, "Well, that sounds really nice, but I wish you would of told be sooner. We'll see. I'll you later" I then told her not to call unless she was going to come, and that I had other plans and would just do that, since I could tell she was not going to do anything with me. She responded with "I made plans and you know that. I'm sorry. I'll call you later".

So, another day and I failed miserably. But she is just so impossible right now. I have filed for divorce and will have the papers Monday and told her this, as I am hoping it will wake her up. That only led to her using that against me when she was yelling at me "I'm done, give me the damn papers Monday and get out of my life". I just cant win.....I really wanted to see her tonight because there is a good chance I could be out of town for the next 4 days and not be able to see her, and then that will lead right into the next weekend, where I know she wont give me anytime.

So a bad day today and a major step backwards. I really tried hard to not love bust, but it was almost like she was begging me to bite. She was the one really love busting, i just fed the fire and let the convo continue, instead of cutting it off, which I should of. We left it as she would call me tonight if her friends left earlier, as I could possibly come over then, but the chances of that about the same as world peace.,

Just heartbroken and ready to give up here.....lots of man-tears today.

Just read through your whole thread, and believe me, I've been where you are. Read my story in my sig below.

I think you're making a mistake by filing for D. Dr. Harley recommends about 6 months or longer of doing Plan A, then switching to Plan B if no progress is being made. You're not following the plan and all the advice that has been laid out for you here!

What has helped me cope and stop being emotionally clingy, needy, etc., is PRAYER. I'm a Christian, so you'll understand my perspective on what I'm going to say.

I've come to learn that I was allowing my W/WW be the sole source of my happiness, and that will always fail you. One cannot entrust their happiness to another human being, as we are all imperfect. Only the Lord Jesus can be relied upon for true happiness. Yes, becoming a BS hurts and is probably the most traumatic experience anyone can suffer, but as others have said here, YOU are responsible for YOUR OWN HAPPINESS. God has given me the wisdom to come back to Him for my true happiness and joy.

Friend, seek out the meaning of life. It is NOT being with your WW. Relationships with friends and family are just a part of what makes us humans happy, but not the end all be all.

Whatever happens, YOU WILL BE FINE. If your WW comes back to you, think of it as a bonus, but not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to find true happiness. Re-read this thread and follow the advice of the vets there. Get back into working out, gain a sense of accomplishment, catch up with old friends, get out and enjoy life.

All the contact you're initiating with your WW, and the waiting to hear from her are futile attempts at finding true happiness. Start taking care of yourself and doing things you enjoy, and if she wants to participate, great, and if not, then that's great too. Her companionship must not be the criteria of whether or not you'll enjoy things in this life. Again, GET OUT AND ENJOY LIFE, YOU WILL FEEL BETTER! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless, hang in there, and don't give up!

SP- I filed for the D, but I have no intentions of giving her the papers just yet. You have to believe when I say I want to give this a try. I am the only one though. Every person around me thinks that what I am doing is wrong, and I should of been divorced months ago. So thats not easy, having your family and friends constantly telling you that you are doing the wrong thing and you need to get out now. Yes, its my life, but hard non the less.

6 months seems like such a long time, especially for someone in my situation, with no kids and married less than 2 years (though its really 5, the marriage paperwork just made us 'legal'). I'm going to stick to the plan, the best I can, until May 1st, then evaluate where we are, knowing that I have Plan A'd her the best I can. If any progress is being made, I'm going to stick it out. If not, the D will go into effect. A may so sooner. I'm not sure.

As for her being my sole source of happiness, I want to believe that is not true, but I would be lying to myself. Anytime I am out and with my friends, I want to be with her. If she doesn't call, I'm in a bad mood or crying. If we are supposed to do something, I'm excited all day, when she cancels, I'm crushed. So I can't sit here and tell you that my life doesn't revolve around my situation and her, because it does, but I'm working on getting away from it.

I was always raised Christian, but never really bought into the whole idea of religion, until this happened. since then, I have been reading the bible, talking to pastors and other people of faith and trying to figure out where I stand. I do pray every night, but I may be praying for the wrong things. I do ask God to help me find peace, and through Him, I hope to accomplish that.

Thanks for your thoughts and God bless -
VS

Vince:

WHOA buddy, What do YOU want to do?



So what if your family and friends are telling you to leave. YOU do what you WANT to do. I would venture to say the every one of us BS's have many people all telling us to leave, kick the WS to the curb, D, etc. I did too.

What is your ultimate goal here? To get a D? Or is it to become a better person and MAYBE get you WW back to build a new M?

If you have read any of the other threads here, you know that a BS in Plan A should NEVER talk about a D. A BS ONLY talks about MARRIAGE.

By you throwing the D statement out there yesterday on the phone with your W, you did so to cause a reaction in your WW...maybe make her change something (scare her into coming back). Plan A is about YOU, not your WW, and until you come to realize this your Plan A will not be very effective. This is what SP was saying above, YOU are responsible for YOUR happiness, not your WW. When you continue to do Plan A, you will eventually reach this point of clarity...You will once again be that confident, interesting and attractive Vince that your WW fell in love with in the first place.

Decide what YOU want, and don't let your friends influence that decision. If you want to be a better person and possibly build a better M with your WW then MAN UP and continue to follow Plan A for YOU.

You haven't been doing this very long, and when your WW has taken some baby-steps of progess, you let her goad you into LB's or being clingy (which we all have done, so don't sweat it). If you want to MAN UP and do it right, re-read your thread, study it, and implement all the advice in here. You have some real pros trying to help you out (JL is a Genius).

LoBoy

Vince:


CUT IT OUT!!!!

You should have hung up. You shouldn't have called. You shouldn't have texed her.

Above all: You should NEVER let her engage you in one of these fruitless arguments. Even if you are absolutely, 100% in the right with your disrespectful judgments of her, you are equally 100% WRONG for bringing them up at all.

-ol' 2long

10-4 2long. I know I was wrong and I['m working on it. Unfortunately this isn't going to happen over night for me.

I went over there last night, brought her some dinner and a key for her car that she absolutely needed since she lost her other one. I basically just sat on the couch all night. she didn't say 3 words to me, then at 9:30 she said she was tired and was going to bed. I followed and played with the dog for a little bit. The she said, "will you lay back here" I was like "why"? She says:"So I can see the TV". So I just said, "I'm leaving, I'll talk to you later", not in a mean tone, just as in 'its time to go' type tone. She asked why I was leaving and I just said "its obvious you don't want me here, you haven't said boo to me since i got here, no big deal, I'll talk to you later." She tried to get me to stay, but I just said later and left.

Whatever....

You're still playing games, vince.

Vince, go get the book LoveBusters and read it so you can at least recognize when you are engaging in them. This above sounds like you just want the tiniest bit or response from your WW to you PlanA,not so you can heal or build something new, but so you can punish her for hurting you.

Examine your motives, declare your goals, make a plan and stick to it. You will be best served by yourself if you can not deal with WW at all if you are feeling negative emotions. Just drop the key off and leave, do drive-by acts of kindness, but don't tempt yourself. You don;t yet have a good enough handle on yourself to act a an example. You need ot be the lighthouse (do search on the forum for concept). You must be solid to be the lighthouse though, not changeable and out of control.

I'm not sure I follow.

I was nice to her. I just stated the obvious and left. I thought what I was doing was right, because I felt that if I stayed any longer I would LB or she would annoyed that I stayed any longer.

I'm new at this and not used to trying to treat a woman with respect who clearly has none for me.

VS

Vince:

Your comment: "its obvious you don't want me here, you haven't said boo to me since i got here, no big deal, I'll talk to you later." was sarcastic, and plan A is not the time 2 be sarcastic.


Unders2d. Backing off some more may be the way you do it.

Like JL has said repeatedly, don't call her at all. Let her call you. Keep your conversations light when you have them. No "R talk", and definitely no sarcasm. WSs don't have the ability 2 appreciate the humor and irony that makes for great sarcasm. And it won't get you what you want, anyway.

-ol' 2long

ok...thanks for the continued advice 2long. I have cut the contact way down as she was the one to contact me after NC from last Tuesday until Friday when she emailed me. Then she called later that night and I didn't answer. She called Sunday as well. NC today.


Working on it.....

not sure if I posted these in your thread yet, they are MrWondering's idea I think, but I review these any time I need to have my head in the game. These are my guides for implementing PlanA:

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

If you need help, there are lots of good ideas here on the forum for how to implement these do's and don'ts. Just post questions for discussion in the GQ forum.

Great post GameFace. I'm taking notes and trying to write down a plan.

I would say I'm doing half and half right now, but pledge to do all of each.

Of the Do's, here is what I am currently good at:
-Act happy (at least in front of her)
repeating "i will make it"
-50/50 on the LISTEN part. need to work on that more, but getting better
-Tend to agree
-I am sexy (haha, used to be a bodybuilder, now I'm just ripped, guess I could put on a few pounds more muscle)

Of the Don't, here is what I do:
-I say "I love you" every now and again, she says it back though. Only in very limited circumstances.
-Ask questions that don't have answers
-Criticize and complain
-Argue, reason and plead
-Her mother is involved, but at her own will - so I wont take blame for that
-Sometimes slip and act helpless (just found out today my younger bro is having a baby and told her how upset this made me because we were trying right before the A)

Wow, reading this list, I really have some work to do.

I think one of the main things here is to not be so accessible to her. I need to be a challenge. But I feel like I need to strike now and that everyday that goes by, the further she gets. I guess patience is key here. If it was meant to be, it will work out.

Thanks GF!

VS

Well, another email has been intercepted by a friend of mine to WW from her girlfriend saying "I need you guys to come out with me this weekend. I met a bunch of dudes and they want to hangout. 'WW's friend', I know you are taken, but 'WW' I know you are not".

So my WW responds: "Sure, you know I'm in! How many dudes are we talking about here?"

I feel like I'm in a jerry springer episode here. I just can't believe this is my "wife". I know, I lost my 'wife' a long time ago. I guess it would be better to say "I can't believe this is the woman I married and spent 8 years with".

I know, I know, I need to worry about me, but it went from an A to now possible other men as well? Yes, I'm looking into things too much, as nothing has happened, but my WW doesn't exactly have a sparkling track record here. I mean, once you have broken the M with an A, I feel that nothing is off limits. And that the WS has lost all morals and obviously no longer respects the M. My mother in-law and I were talking yesterday, and we both agreed that its almost like once she crossed this boundary (the A), she lost all use of her conscious. We can tell by they way she acts and what she says. Like there is nothing that stops the brain from saying or doing what it thinks. Most of us have a conscious that does this for us.

When WS have an affair, is it normal for them to just completely throw away marriage altogether, not just with OM, but other men as well? It certainly seems that way in my case. I certainly know how to pick 'em, huh?

It is so obvious that my WW needs to grow up. She is living as if she is back in college and single, and I believe part of that is because I have been with her since her second year in college.

The Vince saga continues...I'm so upset with the negative events of the last three days, I don't know how I am going to control myself when i talk to her. I don't know if I care anymore. I mean I do, but I just feel like I am being walked all over and that I don't matter at all. I called this AM because I was upset after my bro told me he was having a kid, as this was a HUGE trigger for me, so she knows I needed some support today, but how stupid of me that I thought I could get it from her.

I know most of who read this latest post are thinking that I am not listening to what others have advised and that I am a lost cause, but I am just going through a terrible bout of weakness right now.

VS

You're not listening 2 what others have advised.

You're only as "lost" as you let yourself become

Don't call your W for support, because you know the opposite is what you will get.

If she calls you, I'd be inclined not 2 answer the phone. But if you do, see if you can tell her that you know about her plans without revealing your sources. Be calm and don't LB. Telling the truth is not LBing. But keep the convo VERY short, if you do talk 2 her. No more than a 2ple of minutes. Use "I feel" statements. Do not judge her choices (let her do that). Just let her know how it hurts.

Still, not talking 2 her for a while is probably better, until you can get on firmer emotional footing.

Do you have friends? (male friends) That you can go 2 for moral support?

-ol' 2long

I do have a very good support system, but everyone of them is against saving the M, but they can give me moral support.

I really need to just get it together emotionally. I am listening to what others are saying. I'm not taking action on that advice. That's what I need to start doing, and now.

My WW has changed so drastically over this time period, I'm not even sure I can love her again. But I'd like to see if we can work this out obviously. She has so much growing up to do and is reliving what she missed the past 8 years, its very hard to break her impenetrable wall.

I did speak with her this evening, as I asked why she didn't email me back about my request for plans tonight and letting me have the dog tonight and tomorrow. Definitely some LB going on. She did shed some light on a few things though. The A is over. She doesn't know what she wants. She asked why I just cant be normal (why I keep LB'ing basically), she wants to give me a chance and she is giving me everything she can right now (which is nothing), I asked her what I can do or what she wants, she said she didn't know, but that calling an emailing everyday wasn't helping, so I need to stop that (even though it was an exaggeration. She also said "you were here last night, why didn't you try anything then, you didn't say a word". I was like "WW I wanted to grab you and hold you, kiss you and make love to you", to which she replied "why didn't you?". I was like "Are you kidding, your body language screamed 'go away' and you didn't say boo to me all night"

Anyway, I'm more confused today than I was three days ago, thats for sure.

I will keep listening to all your advice, so please don't give up on me yet. I'm trying hard, I'm just too hurt and emotional right now to truly implement my plan, even though it has been 3 months since this started ("i have feeling for another man).

Thanks for sticking with me-
VS

VS,

Just act like you are courting her again. Her A may be over, but she is not sure that she wants to go back to you. Give her a reason (meeting her ENs and no LBs). I'm telling you the choice to reconcile is ALL YOURS. You just need to choose to place your needs on the back burner for a while. Keep things light and fun. If she pushes you away, back off for a while and try again. No skin off your back. Maybe try something different next time. She has told you that she wanted some kissing and holding, so set up a date with her, get the mood just right, and try something, but don't force it. No LBs, just tell her how good she looked, how much you are enjoying spending time with her, etc. It's going to be like this for months, man. Just suck it up for a while. My WW ended her A in November (even thought it took a few months to get true NC), and I still haven't gotten SF yet. Slow and steady wins the race, Vince. You can do this if you have the right frame of mind.