Once OM has left work, NC and withdrawal can finally start. She has seen him at work and been pining over him the whole time. She'll forget about him eventually now that he has left.

Also, I agree that you should let her push the counseling, but you need to do your research on MCs and make sure that she gets a pro-M counselor. Interview a few and ask them their approach and if they use Dr. Harley's books because a good MC can make or break you at this point. You can tell her that so and so recommended this person, or I have heard good things about this person, or a friend of mine recommended the Harleys for phone counseling. Don't push, but don't allow yourself to go to a second rate MC. Be ready and have your homework done when she gets around to scheduling one.

Okay, you're not going to use the Harleys. Mistake, but okay.

Based on my experience and what I've heard from others, 9/10 of marriage counselors are not particularly interested in preventing divorce and are not competent in dealing with the effects of infidelity. If you are not personally engaged and serious about choosing a counselor chances are you'll wind up with an MC who does you no good, just talks about communication and all that jive. Marriage counseling is a young discipline and it is easy to get credentials for it. There are definitely counselors out there who can be a huuuuuge help, but you need to weed out the ones who don't give a $hi+. It would be a poor idea to demand total control over this process but I strongly advise that at a minimum you interview each candidate, asking specific prepared questions about their philosophies and methods. It's easy to distinguish between the ones who don't get it and the ones who do if you know what you're looking for.

Yeah...

#0.5 Call the Harleys and set up an appointment ASAP, for cryin' out loud.

-ol' 2long

Owl and MEDC your discussion is very intriguing, but I think you guys should start a thread discussing it or reopen my thread about "Are we saps for wanting WS's back?"

Thanks,
VS

OK I HAVE SUBMITTED MY REQUEST FOR AN APPT. WITH THE HARLEY'S 2LONG, SO GET OFF MY F'ING BACK!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (just kidding, I appreciate everything!)

I believe this will be money well spent - but we will see. I know all of you feel like every A is the same, but I truly feel as my sitch is unique, but I know none of you will agree, but I expect that.

Thanks,
VS

Well it's about damned time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In the immortal words of a despair.com poster:

"INDIVIDUALITY"
"Always remember that you are unique. Just like everybody else."

That goes for sitches, 2.

-ol' 2long

Oh you're gonna get an MB 4x8 for that one. Sure, all situations are not "exactly" the same, but the problem and the solution can be identified and fixed using MB techniques. I hate to break it to you Vince, but you aren't special. The details are different, but the song remains the same.

Hi, Vince.

Your situation is NOT unique. If you want to use the word "unique", then call it "commonly unique".

Quote:
===========================================
I agree she is 100% string me along right now, and I know this. But the fact that she admitted that she doesn't want to lose me and wants to go to counseling is a major turn. Again, I am not getting my hopes up at all, I'm just stating that there is at least SOME movement on her part towards me.
===========================================

She also wants to remain "friends" if you divorce. You still don't know her motivation for counseling. I suspect it is for divorce, but I could be wrong. One thing you can do is to tell her "I have no intention of being your friend outside of our marriage". That should at least expose her motivation for counseling.

One last reality bit. You wife's statement about not being pregnant sent up all my flags. That is one of the reasons I strongly encouraged you to refrain from sex with her. All cheaters lie, Vince, and more often than not, they will give themselves away in the things they say. In other words, don't be surprised if she is pregnant.

With the change to item #7, I think your plan is a good start.

I am glad that you are going to counsel with the Harleys.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble-

Its not like she just came out of the blue and said "I'm not pregnant" I was pushing and a pursuing and she eventually admitted she stopped taking her BC. I then pushed and prodded more and she finally admitted that she stopped cause she thought she may be pregnant. During the course of our 8 years together, we have had many false alarms because of some "woman problems" she has.

I'm not sure I would know the motivation behind the fact my wife would lie about being pregnant, call me ignorant. Also, throughout our 8 years and even during the last 4 months, I have been able to read her like a book. I would be able to tell if she was I would think. She was very different the last 10 days when she 'though she was'...her mood changed drastically Sunday, when I am assuming she figured out she wasn't.

VS

Hi, Vince.

Quote:
========================================
I'm not sure I would know the motivation behind the fact my wife would lie about being pregnant, call me ignorant
========================================

The timing of the events is what makes it suspect.

The motivation is a ready made father for the child since the boyfriend is now gone. She already likely knows he would have been an undesirable father.

Wife: "Hon, guess what? I'm pregnant! What do you mean it's the other man's baby? I told you that was a false alarm! It has to be yours."

No sex, then there is no room for games.

I am not putting women down here, Vince, but you might be surprised at the number of kids running around with genes that don't match the named father's genes. It's about 30%.

Quote:
==========================================
Also, throughout our 8 years and even during the last 4 months, I have been able to read her like a book.
==========================================

That is a notion that you need to dispel from your mind. It simply isn't true. Look at your situation for proof. That kind of thinking will trip you up in dealing with your wife in your current situation. You might as well wear blinders.

God bless,
Gimble

VS,

I know you really want to fix things with your ex, though I still feel you're only setting yourself up for future heartache.

That being said, have you come up with a plan?

I think it's great you have an appointment with the Harley's. I wish I had done the same. I might still be married.

I really hope they help you come up with a plan. I feel the best thing for you to do is to follow the 180 I posted earlier. It really, really works. I was able to get a positive response from my ex the few times I actually followed it.

This sucks, bro. I feel your pain and have been in your shoes. I was with my W for 7 years, Married for 4. It's hard to understand how someone can forget all the good and focus on all the bad, especially when we had a family to lose.

All I'm saying is that I empathize and understand and hope you get whatever is best for you, with her or without.

Go rent the movie Swingers and think about it. You may pass up a golden opportunity with a great woman because you're caught up with a bad one.

Just chew on it.

MD - My plan is about 10 posts up.

I will modify it after talking to the Harleys.

I've seen Swingers. I'm just not that type of guy. I'm a fatherly type/stay at home junkie. I would rather stay at home and watch a movie with my wife than, say, go out and go bowling or whatever. She was largely the same way, but liked to go out a little more than me, and frankly,now, she REALLY is going out a lot. She used to drink once a month, now its 3-4 times a week. Like she is making up for lost time. I dont know.

Anyway, yesterday came and went with no contact from her. She never called or emailed. I'm pretty disappointed as she said we would talk about the wheekend Thursday night as I spoke to her very early in the day Thursday about health insurance and she said she would call me later to talk about our plans for the weekend.

On another note, I found an email from another guy, who has been emailing her on and off, but she doesn't repsond to him, it was harmless, but I can tell he is interested in her and hitting on her. He is on her volleyball team and goes out drinking with her often(they all go out after vball). Just bothers me. She was never like that before and never talked to other men. Yea, I know, this is not the woman I married, I know. Still sucks.

Hopefully I'll hear something fromher today, but I am making plans for the weekend now, and if she doesn't call before I have made my plans, tough cookies for her I guess. Thing is she is going on vacation next week with a girlfriend and wants me to watch the dog. I asked her to give me a little more effort if she wants me to do something for her and she agreed, that she not only needed to give more of an effort and be nicer to me, but that she needed to be involved a little more in the give and take. So far its been me giving and not ever getting a thing. I mean, even a phone call or email would do. Nothing. Kinda disappointing.

So it goes...

VS

VS

Tell potential OM#2 to stop hitting on your wife.

Your wife sounds like mine. I think she is starting to come out of the fog, but doesn't want to have to deal with the consequences of her actions. She wants all the perks of being married to you, but she doesn't want to have to feel guilty or make any compromises. She wants this to be your fault. She doesn't want to hang out with you again because you always bring up R/M talk and it makes her feel guilty. Every time you LB her she tells herself, "see, that's why I left Vince for OM." She thinks that you'll hold this over her forever and she doesn't want to deal with that, so she is guarding herself from falling for you again. She was hurting before her A, and she is afraid that you haven't changed, and she'll just get hurt again. I know, that's quite a self-centered attitude for someone who committed adultery, but she's still in WS mode. After several months of NC and plan A, she'll start to see her faults and problems, and realize that she can't just blame you for them anymore. I'm getting close to there with my W, M2L already got there with his FWW in December, and I think after 4-6 months of COMPLETE NC, your WW might get there as well. It seems like they have the same personality type and respond in similar ways. The first few months after my W's A ended, she wanted nothing to do with me. It took her several months to feel safe with me again. Now, I can see the wheels turning in her head, and I think she's about to fully commit again.

JMWC- Wow, I can't believe what you just said above. That couldn't be more correct. Every time I do bring up R/M talk or LB, that is exactly what she is thinking and then wondering why she would even put herself in that sitch, when it is so easy not to. But she will 'throw me a bone' every now and again to make sure I am still on the end of the leash. I need to make her think I am not just always going to be on the end of the leash, and I believe my plan should do that.

My WW is very stubborn, and I am not sure she will ever view this as her fault and will always feel that I am to blame for this. I want to see whats he is truly made of. I think in order for us to even start to think about a chance at recovery, she is going to have to do some MAJOR reflection.

As for potential OM#2, I really don't think anything is there and would have no idea how to let him know to back off. Then my WW would know I am checking her email and what not. I have no idea who this fool is other than he plays vball with her and has emailed her s a few times, once borderline inappropriate, but it was more humorous than anything else.

EVERYONE-

So I have an appt. Tuesday night to speak with Jennifer. I am wondering if I should invite WW to the discussion. It just may be to soon and she may look at it as me pushing her. Like I said above, I want her to make the moves with the counseling effort, with my guidance. I want her to take the initiative so that she feels vested in this.

Any opinions?

VS

You can invite her to join you, but I wouldn't push it more than that.

Vince:

No, do not ask your W 2 join you in your first call 2 JHC. The first session will be for Jennifer 2 get the particulars of your non-unique sitch - the details of your marriage, the A, where you are at mentally in the process of recovery. That sort of thing.

You will be given homework. You will be expected 2 do the homework and come prepared 2 your sessions in oder 2 be most efficient.

Jennifer will know how best, and when, 2 engage your W in coaching. The Harleys wrote this stuff, and know better than anyone alive how 2 implement it in recovering marriages.

-ol' 2long

Vince,

Why not go to her Vball games?

Vince wrote:
==========================
I am wondering if I should invite WW to the discussion.
==========================

Nope.

She likely wouldn't do it if you invited her anyway.

God bless,
Gimble

I really do not car what any of you say - every situation is unique. The only variables that are constant are a WS, a BS a M and A. Everything else is and will be different, that is why I truly believe your plan has to be flexible to fit the needs of the individuals involved and the circumstances surrounding them. I will stick to that no matter anyone wants to say.

Sure there are constants, but everyone has so many differing factors that make each situation very unique. I know of three other A's that I have been close to in my life, and none of them are even close to the same as what I am going through and what my situation is and I could never see the same principles working for each one, sorry. No way.

VS

Good luck on your divorce. Maybe it is this kind of closemindedness that your WW is sick of. You pretend to listen, but you don't HEAR her. I'm not trying to be mean, but wake up, Vince. (((2x4))) Sure, the details are different, but the way to fix it is the same. Meet the ENs your WW allows you to me, eliminate all LBs, just have fun, no R/M talk, don't expect your needs to be met for a LONG time, etc. The difference is what your WW's ENs are and what your LBs are. Do you REALLY know what her ENs are and how to meet them? Do you REALIZE when you LB even though you aren't trying to? How do you prevent that from happening again? You can only fix YOU, Vince. How are you going to do that? You've got a lot of work to do before your WW will feel safe with you once again. I know that's not fair, but that's what it takes. Are you sure that you are up for this?