Odds are, calling OM is going to be useless. He'll just deny...or admit and tell you to get stuffed. No real value there. She suggested getting a hold of OM directly for exactly that reason...because it wouldn't do any good in ending the affair. He already knows and supports the affair. And as far as "what she'd do"...you can inform her that the odds are she has NO IDEA what she'd do if she were in your shoes, because she's not been there...and since you'd never do it to her, she'll never know either. (I had this conversation with my wife as well.)

Getting a hold of OMW if possible is usually helpful. The targets for exposure are those that would be willing and capable of putting pressure on WW and OM to end the affair...it's to bring the affair out in the open, so that it's no longer the fun little fantasy world that they shared. Make sense?

You should feel great for standing up for yourself and your kids. You are doing GREAT!

For a while back when I was snooping and I actually new what was really going on, I could not *believe* the crap that my wife said to me. To be honest it is one of the things that I struggle with to this day. She would say the most manipulative things that were 100% off base from what was really happening. Things like "just when I was *starting* to feel gooood about *us* again, you get upset at me" (on her way out to meet OM in a hotel room for the afternoon). She would verbally/emotionally destroy me in any discussion or argument we would have, she could always make me feel really bad; many times I even *wrote* long apologies to her only to find out months later what was *really* happening. DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING SHE SAYS.

This highlights one of the critical reasons why the BS should expose the A ASAP before the WS has had an opportunity to add their own spin to the story. By airing all of your dirty laundry like that to MIL after you exposed her A, your WW likely came off as a vengeful and spiteful brat. Now, if she'd told your MIL all of that BEFORE you had a chance to expose her A, guess who would turn out looking vengeful and spiteful?

This also suggests that exposure should be done to all who can help end the A, and all at the same time too. "Rolling exposures" give the WS the opportunity to twist the story first to those who haven't heard of the A yet.

Hopeful,

My .02 worth......

Owl is probably correct in his assumption that the OM probably won't give a rat's a$$ what you think

But...

Jmwc is also correct in that the OM should be called just for the mere fact that he needs to know, from you, that you intend to fight for your marriage and kids and ask him to do the right thing and back off.

Even though your wife doesn't seem to mind you talking to him, ALL wayward spouses lie and the OM may not know you want to save your marriage. Alot of WS tell the OP all kinds of lies to lessen their guilt for themselves and the OM. They'll re-write your marital history to the OP.

So, I hope you do call the OM and if it were me, after I made the REALLY GOOD statement that Jmwc offered you, I would listen to the OM's first couple of sentences just to see if what you say surprises him or see if he just starts making justifications. At least that'll tell you a little bit where their relationship is at. But don't put too much stock into what he says, he obviously doesn't have much integrity. Kapisch?

My wife is setting up appts with the counselor to start the separation/divorce agreements, wants me to attend. How awkward to say I'm working on the marriage when she's working on the divorce. Should I plod on, pretend that's not happening? I guess I'll just have to work on both fronts, offense and defense. Man this is tough.

Don't assist your wife in divorcing you. If she wants to setup those appts, she can. Doesn't mean you have to attend. As a matter of fact, I'd say feel free to respond back to her lawyer with "I realize that she's filed, but I don't believe that our marriage is doomed yet, and I am not giving up on this. I won't be able to attend. Thank you."

Don't pretend it's not happening...but don't help or assist or give any indication that you are going to help her in this. No need to lie to her about how you feel...be up front in what you're doing. You're not done with this marriage yet, and you're not willing to go to assist her in destroying it.

AGree with Owl, just let her know you are not interested in divorce and won't be cooperating in any such meetings. No thanks!

As far as contacting the OM, it can be useful and this is something that Steve Harley and Dr. Harley have both recommended. It puts the OM on notice that he will have some trouble on his hands and it enables him to connect a real live person with the name. It humanizes the husband to the OM.

I can't really give you any encouraging story. I just think you are pretty wonderful. I am sitting here wondering what kind of idiot I am to be fighting for my marriage when I read your post. I do have some comments. Isn't it funny what they come up with to justify the whole thing. I threw a rock at a kid when I was 8, I guess that is one of the reasons my WH had to go to OW. Don't let her bring up that past crap. What today has to deal with is today. She tries to make herself mad at you to make herself believe you are the reason she is doing it. The OM is probably helping out in that area too. According to our OW I am the worst person on the planet. Strange how she knows this, as I don't personally know her. If you feel in your heart that this is the right thing to do keep on fighting.

I admire you!

secure the family money

waywards spend money on their adultery

plug any leaks

more exposure (sort of)

YOU go to the childrens' school authorities

tell them in person AND in writing

"We are having a family/marriage crisis. I want to personally be informed if any of my children exibit any worrisome behavior. This is my cell #. My e-mail. Please, do not hesitate to call me. I want to make sure they get any help they need."

.... something like that

YOUR name & YOUR info and YOUR signature (can be a document in the future if there is a custody battle) ... not your WWs

Pep

HD,

I called OM. I simply asked why he thought what he was doing was right. I asked him to explain it to me. He had no reply, just the usual I'm just trying to be a friend to her and if this is hurting your M I'll stop. I said yes please leave my WW alone so she get her head together and decide what she wants to do. He said he would. I replied with, OK man to man are we cool. He said yes we are cool.

Did it work? Nope
Did it eventually work? Yes

It ate at him for another month and then he dumped my wife.
As others have said, after this exchange WW lost it and said verbatum what your's did. Even asked me to let her go on top of she wanted a D.

This is where it worked the best. WW got super needy and freaked out with OM after this. She gave up everything for him and now he needed to step up. OM being a typical OM and my words in the back of his head sent him running for his life.

Exposure speeds up the natural death of affairs. This gives your M a much better chance for recovery.

If OM fears commitment he will be gone shortly.

Good Luck

Hopefuldad
Start with Plan A first, consult with her family becuase 9 times out of 10 they do not know. Yes it may be 50/50 fault with the M but, you did not seek out the OM for your wife you did not force her to go to the OM. The sooner you start your plan A the sooner you will see all this. But do not condone her wawardness.Do not for a minute let her think that this is appropiate behavior not only for your sake but also for your children's sake. I am sure you do not want your children thinking this is the way marrieag is and what love is like. I feel for you.
Deep breath and plan A Expose her to her parents they may be able to pull her back into reality, (maybe) the longer it goes on the harder it will be.

keep us posted

Another thing. The WS handbook states clearly "Say whatever it takes to your BS to fill them with fear. Fear will paralyze them, and they'll do nothing and your affair can go on without interruption or delay."

I don't know how they know this, but they do, and they work it to the hilt.

Another thing they'll do is engage you and do all they can to get you to lose your temper and become angry. That is how they justify having the affair, because their husband is "an angry, jealous person who only wants to control me".

So, my little contribution is this. Don't be paralyzed by fear and follow the GREAT advice you are getting on this thread, and, ALWAYS KEEP YOUR COOL, keep your temper under check and behave like a well-mannered responsible adult. There has to be one like that in the family, and it sure as he!! isn't your WW!!!

Best wishes,
SD

Thanks everyone for your help. I think the affair has been suspended at least. Telling the OM's ex wife had a big impact, I think mainly on OM (they trade a son back and forth, and the ex-wife was sympathetic to me), but telling my wife's mother seems to have just made my wife hate me more, said I couldn't handle my own problems, pulled in her poor innocent mother who's 70, I'm hiding behind women's skirts, etc. And her mother was devastated, crying so much for the next several days, which didn't make my wife feel guilty, but just more angry at me (wife would make me listen to her crying on the phone, etc.).

Anyway, what really made her end the affair was a discussion I had about how a divorce would hurt the kids, and this made her feel really bad, she was crying for a couple hours, saying she felt her spirit was broken, she was being selfish, I knew what was best for her. But later she was blaming me for "playing the kids card" - like our conversation was merely my attempt to manipulate her. She really just blames me for everything, has so much contempt for me.

So I'm trying to think about reconciling. We've been pretty low-key for the past couple weeks, not too many discussions, etc. There's no affection between us, no intimacy, no physical relations, nothing except politeness and talking about necessary things, like dealing with the kids. Can such an adversarial and tense relationship ever get better? How long will it take?

How would you recommend I try to reconcile with my wife, who says she doesn't love me, never did and never could, disrespects me, and says she's only staying with me for the kids, not for me? She feels like she's made all the sacrifices and I've gotten everything I wanted. She gave up her lover, I didn't give up anything. She says I have to get over her because she would never love me. Is reconciliation possible with someone who just doesn't want to and doesn't believe it is possible? And, I'm not even sure she's not keeping in touch with the OM, though I believe she is not seeing him. I'll start doing some more snooping.

hopefuldad,

Just wanted to echo what shattered said above - don't let the fear paralyze you. Fear is not from God.

2 Timothy 1:7 (NIV)

For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline

hopefuldad,

Now is the critical time. She is an addict. Do not let her continue her contact with OM. Cut it off in all ways possible. Make your snooping foolproof so you can catch her if she breaks NC, and handle it quickly. If there is continued contact, this thing will go on perpetually. That is the STICK of plan A. Now, on to the carrot. You need to focus on just having fun with your WW without pushing too hard. Invite her to do things. If she turns them down, just go by yourself. Eventually she will take you up on your offer. No R/M talk right now. Just keep things light. The first EN that she will probably let your meet is conversation. What does she like to talk about? You need to work on getting her to open up while avoiding the topic of your relationship. Let her know that you are listening, but don't interrupt of correct her. Try this for a while, and tell us how it goes.

Time can and will heal many of the wounds you are now receiving, but what you do with the time can be very helpful.

As she begins to defog, seek to normalize your relationship with her. Dress "up" a bit, change aftershaves, and look and smell good all the time. Work towards spending the 15 hours of week together, even if part of it is shopping for household needs, cooking and cleaning or just watching TV.

Purchase flowers and bring them home once a week, but don't "give" them to her. Put them in a vase and set them on a table or counter top and say nothing. Think of things she loves, desires or collects. Nothing huge or expensive...thoughtful gifts, again, once a week. Don't "give" it to her, just leave it laying around where she'll find it.

No matter how you feel inside, appear upbeat and self confident at all times. Women are repelled by sullen, downbeaten, boring men. Begin living your life to the fullest at every opportunity. Do an immense number of things with your kids, and always invite her along. Don't beg, just invite. If she declines, show no sadness or dissapointment, just go have fun.

If you have a "regular" schedule, mix it up a little. Don't be predictable. Bring a little excitement and spontainaity into your house. Be fun to be around. Make the family she thought about leaving hum with excitement.

I know this is all easier said than done, but if you start with baby steps, and keep making strides, it will become second nature. It will help her through withdrawal, because she'll be having "fun" with the family.

Lastly, don't have a "relationship talk" every day. Pace yourself. Once or twice a week, and for short periods. WS's react with defensiveness and anger whenever you need an answer. Minimize those occasions, so she has no reason to be sullen or angry.

Everything she says is right out of the wayward spouse handbook. They all say exactly the same things. Many of us well into recovery have heard just what she's saying to you, and they proved to be "just words" spoken while in the throes of a horrible addiction. This too, shall pass.

Try some of this stuff. As corny as it sounds, it will help. That, and time.

Best wishes,
SD

Those suggestions sound great, I'll follow them, especially the relationship talk one. That's so hard though! There's so much tension under the surface, it's a hard way to live. But I can do it. Thanks for this info.

Here's a specific question I could use people's opinon on. My wife had a car accident, no one got hurt but the car was totaled by the insurance company, so now we need a new car. My wife wants a super expensive car to replace it, we're talking $48grand including tax. A great family car but really expensive. I'm worried about making this committment given the fragile state of our marriage. Should I push back, or let her have it? We can afford it, but it's really expensive and a big commitment. I brought this up with her, suggested some more affordable alternatives, but she got very upset, and the issues between us came up again. I knew this would be a LB, but I just felt it would be unwise to make such a huge financial commitment to something that might not work, and I also don't like spending so much money on a car. What do you think? Should I just buy it to make her happy? Or should I tell her we can get a nice car when our marriage is better? If we do split up, neither of us could afford it by ourselves. Maybe that'll be another incentive for her to stay married to me! Ha. But I told her I want her to be happy with her life, not to be a prisoner in a golden cage. I told her I wanted us to start working to improve our relationship, and wanted her to say she was committed to our marriage, that she would try to make it work. Is that too pushy right now? The expensive car sort of increases the risk I feel. What do you think?

I wouldn't buy the car. I would by a cheap alternative with the option to be able to trade up to something better if you are comfortable that things are working out in your marriage. Explain that to her in a non love-busting way. If she protests tell her, "one month ago you were ready to leave me for another man. I'm not ready to make that big of a financial commitment unless I know that you are committed to this relationship, because I cannot afford it on my own." Then drop it and buy her the cheaper car.

Spending that much on a car sounds extravagant and unreasonable in any case (just my opinion; I know you can afford it).