Ah, I did start letting go in Plan B, and I need to reconnect with that. I will start that again, starting...hmmmmm. NOW.

Mimi:

Maybe you read me a little differently.

"Certainly you will be fearful..but you don't let it GUIDE you and hold you back from the JOY..read my signature line..this is what I began working on for MYSELF...

I disagree with LG on this one."

I agree with your statement. I was trying to explore for S/L the validation of the fear. You tell her to move beyond it.

I like that, even better.

VOLDEMORT, VOLDEMORT, VOLDEMORT.

Speaking the fear is one of the first steps in dissipating the fear.

Go have some FUN!


LG

The way I dealt with this type of FEAR.. which I also had.. was TO DO ALL THAT I COULD POSSIBLY DO. ..to meet his ENs..to make him HAPPY..to be the primary source of his HAPPINESS..THEN LET IT GO..



I do think that you have to take the FOCUS off of HIM...

Plus, it does take a LONG TIME to HEAL..what we have been through is TRAUMATIC..even after all this time, I still HURT..not that much..but it's still there...

I think it's important to FIGHT THE NEGATIVE FEELINGS...they are EVIL..they hold us back from growing and take us back into the past...

TRY TO MOVE ON..MOVE PAST THOSE FEELINGS..and focus on the GOOD..working on FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF and WHO YOU ARE...knowing that if he does leave you again, it will be a MAJOR LOSS for HIM..and knowing that YOU have done all that you possibly could have done..

Last night was good; I think posting about my fears helped me to begin to eradicate them as best and as fully as is possible.

I relaxed. PWC came home, I gave him some kissies, light and fun (felt good) and we went to pick up some din-din. I felt comfortable. I was laughing and telling jokes. I noticed that we are back to really talking about our days, with little effort for either of us to initiate. WE don't really talk about work that much, but what happened in the course of the day. It's cool.

I had a tense moment here or there, but recognized they were my own concoction, no tension was really there, so that dissipated quickly.

I'm going to work out again tonight; my muscles are sore, but it's a good feeling, like I'm rebuilding. I'll hit the heavy bag again, and FIGHT THE NEGATIVES!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Be careful about GUARDING YOUR HEART AND MIND these days..cause as you know it is a really difficult time and you need to BE IN THE PRESENT, HAVE FUN, BE FREE AND STAY POSITIVE.

During EARLY RECOVERY, which I'm calling a WHOLE YEAR, I mainly came here to get help on PERSONAL RECOVERY. I had to stay away from the threads of those who were failing or had failed. I'm sorry. This is not meant to be critical of anyone in what they had to do with their lives or what became of their lives. But it is your job NOW to do what is best for you, your marriage and your family.

PROTECT YOUR HEART AND MIND...

You are a MB SUCCESS STORY, SL..YOU HAVE ALREADY SUCCEEDED..GRADUATED..GOT YOUR MB DIPLOMA..no turning back for you whether you marriage makes it or not...YOU HAVE SURVIVED..YOU HAVE THE POWER, MY GODDESS-IN-TRAINING, YOU...

WORK THAT BODY, TONIGHT!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ah, see, I've been in denial about the TRAUMA part. It's like I've heard you say to me, and Sis and many others==I'm not special or unique in the case of infidelity and the trauma and the turmoil. I have to accept that about my sitch. I am not unscathed, and to ignore that only hurts me.

Ignoring that hurts everything that I touch. So, I need to keep up with personal recovery. The trauma that I've suffered over the last two years also opened a floodgate to my past, that I am just starting to recognize and realize that this, too, needs tending to.

I was never one to wallow in self pity, which is serving me well, but it can also lead to denial, so I'm going to try to recognize that.

SL,

You can only do your part.

Do not over analyze your situation.

You were betrayed and you hurt. No amount of dancing on table naked for your FWH is going to make that better right away.

I really admire you and all you have gone through. At some point you need to step back, slow down then let him try to catch up some.

You are almost at 3 months now and this is a marathon, you cannot make it all better by yourself.

I really think MC would help. You are getting great advice from Mimi and Lg and everyone. You get to bounce ideas etc, PWC doesn't I think he should have some help and guidance as to what to do and what to expect. Like what he can do when you hit a trigger. What do you need from him when you hit a trigger? Do you need a hug, your space, an appology? Whatever it is if he knew he could give that to you.

Recovery is two sided.

Focus on you too. You cannot worry about pleasing him all the time. You cannot worry about his feelings all the time.

He needs to please you and help you through your Trauma.

Frog,

I haven't told him anything about my triggers. Not much R talk at all. Now, I know triggers aren't necessarily R talk, but they will hurt him, too. They, most likely, will bring the guilt bubbling up to the surface. I don't know. I haven't TOLD him that he has to do anything. I've asked.

The exchange of information with our emails and bank stuff ALONE was coined a LB by him, so I don't know whether or not he's ready for MY PAIN. He may be ready to take his part in the demise of the M, and working on that in counseling, but I don't know if he is ready for the pain.

He needs to please you and help you through your Trauma.

Others will have to chime in on this one, but I don't believe that I can force him to care. He has to choose it on his own; it's part of his makeup, his anatomy, his biology. If he chooses to have empathy/sympathy, is his call.

I know recovery is two sided, but I have asked this before, am I supposed to have expectations, and if so, what, when, how, where, who?

Part of the reason I asked about counseling was to get ideas. I think it's gotten to the point that I NEED to say something to PWC about this. I don't think he has anybody to talk to. I not only have MB, but I have family and friends and I have opened up to them, and they are receptive to me. PWC may still feel like a pariah. I don't know. Again, how am I to know if he doesn't talk about it? I cannot force him to do so. I don't want to either.

This is not me playing games. He has a decision to face, many in fact. They are HIS to make, and his decisions will affect mine, so I think he may be fearful of making any.

I sent him the link to my question about counseling, and asked him if he would read it. If he does, we may be able to at least discuss a course of action.

One of his complaints about me was that I was pushy, controlling. I WAS. Now, I control me, I ask the questions that I need answered; if the info may help him, too, I pass it along, with no expectations.

Now, Frog, don't get me wrong. I don't have a timeline or anything of that nature, but I won't remain in this marriage to do all of the work and heavy lifting myself. I ask questions of you guys because I NEED To know when the WS, in your recovery sitch, grasped onto recovery, and really took it on. Really invested in it.

I also need to know how long that may have taken, what circumstances that was under.

I agree with Mimi that I need to continue personal recovery, but I also agree with LG that PWC needs to grasp the concept somehow, someway in order for HIM to get on track. If I can help him out, by offering information, than I will, but that's it, the rest is up to him.

PWC knows MB, came here and read while I was in Plan B, read the concepts, read my thread and postings. He counseled with Jennifer C, during our false recovery. He knows what can be done to help him. He has to choose the help.

Frog, in my selfish little heart, I WISH that PWC would just jump on the bandwagon and help OUR recovery. The reality is that he may not, he may, it's his call. I'm in it to win it, THAT's my call, my choice. If we never can manage to get the right help, or he doesn't want it, I have my own decisions to make.

It's early still, so I think that line of thinking is inappropriate. I will not be making any decisions on this right now.

Mimi has made some very valid points, that if I work on myself and continue to fulfill needs, I will be happy for it. If PWC doesn't come around, it is his loss.

The Harleys say that WITHDRAWAL can take up to 6 months, especially if it was a LOVE AFFAIR.

My H was IN NO WAY NORMAL after 3 months..still very FOGGY..it took the FULL SIX MONTHS...

I kept it LIGHT and FUN..mainly continued to work on MYSELF...

That was my experience...

A real MAJOR CHANGE was not EVIDENT until a year went by..

That's what I figured Mimi. It's good to have that perspective from you guys, the GUTS of recovery from the beginning, not hard and fast timelines, but where YOUR spouse FELL on those timelines.

I fully expect withdrawal to take at least six months, just judging from my experience with PWC after his first affair (wishing I had foudn MB then, dangit).

SL,

I saw the other post and that is why I posted to it.

I don't think my FWW ever invested in recovery. It is my beleif that my FWW thinks time heals all wounds.

As long as we did not get a D it is my responsibility to move on at some point.

That is why Mimi is a great help because it seems as though her FWS did invest in the recovery and you can see it is starting to pay dividends.

That was my point on the other thread is that eventually PWC will need to come to the "whatever it takes for as long as it takes mentatlity" That is a buyer.

It is not for you to get him there. It is for him to find it.

Men don't like directions anyway.

I think eventually he will. Why wouldn't he, look what he would lose if he didn't.

Frog, thank for the kind words.

You are right, he has to get there on his own. My part in this is to work on me.

That is not to say that, eventually, he won't have to catch up/join the march toward recovery. He will. That is his decision to make. I've made mine. I live in mine, and make every day as good as I can with what I know. When I learn something new, I add it on and keep slowly trudging forward.

This weekend was not good for me. My frame of mind needed adjustment. I was very angry, but more blindly so, than the anger having a real place to rest. 'Things' aren't moving fast enough, impatience causes anger. Memories of the first false recovery (10months long), and fear that we will repeat that take over. It takes everything I have to get through every day; my perception is that PWC doens't give what I give. He gives whatever he wants to/can give right now, but it's not always filling my needs.

One of my highest needs now, is affection. I get none. I give it, and he hugs back or kisses back, but it feels awkward, forced. He doesn't touch me at all. I touch him. This, recently, hurt me. It must be so hard for him, though, not giving to silentlucidity, like he used to, with such ease. Now, he just can't do it, or doesn't want to. That cannot be easy to reconcile. I cook and clean and touch and talk; it's not easy to engage him; he rarely smiles with me, rarely laughs. It can be a downer. I struggle to let his emotions be his, not necessarily directed AT me, but I live AROUND/AMONG them.

Anyway, I had a bad dream last night, and woke up crying. Haven't done that in a while, but, since I was already crying, I just kind of let the tears flow, released the anger, sadness, stress.

Today is a new day. I will not step backwards and let anger and emotion guide ME. I will continue to give. I have to remind myself that this is about me. When resentment built up, before the A's, I withdrew. I don't want to ever be like that again, with anyone. It's my anger, and I must learn to deal with and dispell it.

Again, I have no strict timeline, but I am looking for signs that PWC is still on the same track, maybe a bit behind, but on the same track. He is. He gives what he can muster right now. Patience resumes. I CAN imagine the struggle he has. I really mean that. I can see it.

SL,

I know you have done your part on working on yourself.

Continue that and decide who and what you want to be at the end of that as a single entity.

Then if/when your husband decides to the same you will have two wholes that make a great M.

You know the drill though you can't expect your EN's to be filled.

I love Mimi's advice but that was my point about table dancing before, it isn't entirely up to you.

He will get there.

I think there is always the thought I touched on before, "sooner or later SL will kick me out so why try."

I think that plays some part in it as well as the withdrawl.

The fear that no matter what the FWS does it will never be "forgiven, moved past, whatever"

I think there is always the thought I touched on before, "sooner or later SL will kick me out so why try."

I think that plays some part in it as well as the withdrawl.

The fear that no matter what the FWS does it will never be "forgiven, moved past, whatever"


Oh, I've thought about this. PWC may believe this, but that is HIS burden. He will have to learn to trust me, too. I still find it ironic that he's the one who cheated, who put his family on the back burner, yet I have to earn his trust. I understand it.

PWC has his own forgiving to do; there is nothing I can do to make that happen. I can only show him who I am, changes I've made. Honestly, my patience ALONE is a big change. Not funneling anger toward him is a BIGGIE. Not letting resentment build to the point of emotional abandonment= HUGE. I'm happy with my changes. I hope they are of value to my M.

I don't plan on doing any table dancing. Honestly, PWC in non-receptive to the 'flesh' these days. He was for a little while after coming home, but that disappeared. I went to be nekkid the other night, no response. Mostly, I did because the teddie I was wearing kept twisting, while I tried to get comfy, so I just took it off. Like Mimi said, I wanted to be comfortable in my home, so I slept nekkid, regardless of PWC.

I didn't take it personally, the nekkidness was not done FOR him, but was there if he wanted. I am not averse to SF, not at all. I mentioned it yesterday, SF, and he just looked away, no smiles, he appeared uncomfortable. I dunno, he didn't say anything, so I'm not going to assume anything.

SL,

It is his burden. The only thing you can do, which I know you are, is having a consistent an constant pattern of behavior to show him you are/have changed.

Words are easy but the day to day is there. I can see that.

One day it will click and the trust from him will be there.

The changes you are making will do wonders.

They already have for you it is pretty evident.

If he is in withdrawl and he is depressed. Depression acts hurts the old libido.


So this should pass too as time goes by.

I just wouldn't force it too much.

Just let him knwo you will be there for him for "anything" he needs when he needs it.

It's good to hear from yet another man that the libido could be hampered by depression. I know mine is, but I am WOMAN, and can't even begin to understand how that works for men.

I was thinking back to before we got into this whole mess. I was thinking back to how we got along. It was great. I miss that. It was all so easy then. I was never angry with PWC, he was always touching me, talking to me, interested in what I had to say, for the longest time. Just remembering fondly how good we had it, and how fun it was. We grew up together. The affairs were the end of the innocence, for both of us. Such a shame that we did not have the tools and lived in fear of each other, to the point that we killed our R, our M.

Certainly, I hope to rebuild it better, like the 6M dollar MARRIAGE...

End of the innocence indeed.

I think in my case it exposed a lot of the things that were wrong that we just swept under the rug.

The major differences that as fools we beleived love would conquer and we would endure.

Not having the tools because you didn't think you would need them.

Now you know you do. Getting them and then learning how to use them to build and not destroy.

Kind of like a hammer. You can use it for either.

I prefer flip this marriage, like flip this house only they make an old beat up marriage look great and worth more.

Flip this marriage. Good one...

I'm giving you permission to ask him what the heck turns him on? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Although nekkid may be typical for you, maybe that's not alluring for him...maybe he feels that's too obvious...

I don't know...

I think I would ask him though...

Stuff like..how do you like for me to dress?..how do you like for me to fix myself up for you?....what kind of you lingerie do you like?....Message: I want to add to your HAPPINESS....

On the same wavelength, though, I also asked: What do you want me to cook for you? What's your favorite thing that I cook?

It was like we were starting all over again....

He was in a daze..foggy...and had to learn how to be NORMAL again with ME....

I asked yesterday about meals, what he likes for me to cook. Why is it so hard for me to broach the subject of sex? I'll just have to do it. We spend time together, but we don't talk a lot, at least not about anything R wise. I don't wanna just spring it on him, but I'm going to have to start asking him what he likes again.

I'm afraid of rejection. Need to work on that. It's unfounded in terms of sex, so I need to find a way to let him know that I want to give, but and befuddled as to how, when, where, frequency, etc... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />