You are absolutely and totally correct.

That stinkin' thinkin'...I love that! Ain't it the truth, though.

I was doing some of that stinkin thinkin on my way home; I decided to stop and sing along with the music.

There are many things that I need to talk to PWC about, just to ask questions, not to tell him what he needs to do, just to get answers, so that I can move on from certain subjects. This is what Jennifer has said to me. I need to start asking HIM the questions, no matter how hard.

I can't understand you wanting to RECOVER with your H if he REALLY is as TA describes the P/A spouse.

Could you possible be on the WRONG TRACK about him?

I can't see such a person BECOMING P/A...seems like he must have been like this prior to the A..if he is P/A...

AND..if he was, WHY WERE YOU ATTRACTED TO HIM? WHY ARE YOU STILL IN LOVE WITH HIM?

Mimi, you ask such interesting questions.

I am not diagnosing PWC, but I do recognize 'traits' of PA with him.

AS for recovering with him, I don't think I can make the decision to just quit without seeing if he will engage. I truly believe that he DOES want to be here, and does want to be happy. I just don't know if he is willing to take the steps and communicate with me. I know he does not want to be without us, but what I don't know is how he plans on showing ME that and/or if he plans on choosing to love me. I also don't know if he doesn't want to be without us out of fear of being alone. In the latter, case, I'm not willing to sit around and be his 'company'. I just don't feel like that is a marriage.

As Jennifer said to me, you will figure everything out with time. She asked me if I felt like I had done all that I can, and I can safely say NO, especially not in the last month.

AS far as I'm concerned, he does show appreciation for me. I just don't know what that has to do with love.

I was attracted to him, initially, because he was physically attractive, and FUNNY, and SO into me. He paid me so much attention, gave so much affection. I felt so good about myself, for YEARS, just by virtue of how much love he gave me. I have always felt good about myself, but when I fell for him, I fell hard. I didn't WANT to fall for him, I resisted, because I had just broken up with my long term HIGH SCHOOL boyfriend, and wanted to be FREE. Well, that didn't last long, I was hooked.

We had a lot of fun together, too. He taught me to play pool, and we played OFTEN. We would go out to a field and play frisbee, just laugh and play. WE would sit and talk talk talk. We loved going to the movies, dinner and talking. We BOTH enjoyed each others company. The SF were incredible. We had so much fun with each other. I felt that my life was enhanced by his presence.


Mimi, I think there is a huge difference between being IN LOVE with him and loving him. I am NOT in love with PWC. I love him. I hope to have romantic love with him again. I can't say that WILL be achievable if he doesn't ever TOUCH me again. I can't say that I will be able to remain in that sort of marriage.

Aside from the affairs, which killed much of my love, PWC has never done anything to intentionally hurt me. I recognize that now, he has only done things that hurt himself. His lack of engagement with his child lost him some pretty great early years stuff. His lack of engagment with me, lost him much of my love.

I am giving this my best shot, because I am not diagnosing him. PWC is a huge conflict avoider, there's no doubt about that for me. We are in a major conflict.

If you ask me if I FEEL like quitting, well, I can't lie and say that I don't. I don't think many get into recovery and feel hunky dory. It's a process. I'm not going to change overnight.

I certianly could be on the wrong track.

What I'm dealing with is someone who talks and says all of the right things, that *I* want to hear. Now that he's home, he's not PUTTING UP what he said he would. I didn't tell him WHAT to say, either, they were his choice words, his choice actions.

I wish I could convey how I feel about this. I do a poor job. I feel uneasy ALL OF THE TIME. I feel angry a lot. The sentiment that is conveyed to me, here, is that I have to just keep working on me, and he will eventually engage. It's been 4 months, and we've gone from talking and touching in the first month, to barely talking, and I touch him and he reacts like he's got robot arms and no heart. Maybe comparing him to how he used to be is the problem. Maybe he will never be like that again, with me.

My confusion is WHO am I dealing with? Is this REAL, or withdrawal. It sure doesn't seem like withdrawal, it seems real. I've never been in this situation before, so I am going by what you guys here have been through.

Oh, and about this...



I can't either...

SL, I think you need to avoid that P/A thread.

Change your lovebusting and see how your husband reacts. I found out that alot of my husband's dysfunctional behavior was a result of MY behavior.

If you change, he has to change how he relates to you.

It is TOO SOON to write him off as P/A. And it is too soon to decide that he is not engaged in this. If he's home, and he's being transparent...that says ALOT.

Lots of people use a passive aggressive approach in certain situations. That doesn't make them psych cases.

I agree with your assessment as to diagnosing PWC, and I am going to take the approach of MB, and make the necessary permanent changes to have a successful marriage.

The 'traits' that I do recognize, could just be fog, and withdrawal, that is what Jennifer has expressed to me.

I don't think PWC is a psych case. As I've said, we did have a great relationship at one time, however naive we may have been, the show of love and care WAS there.

I have been passive lately in dealing with my disappointment. I have not talked to PWC about this, and cannot expect him to read my mind, just as I would LOVE to know what he thinks and feels right now. I think it's important that we *touch base* and understand where each other is right now. Jennifer has instructed me to ask those questions that I am uncomfortable with.

He is home and he is being transparent. He is also doing things that do make me feel happy, as in taking charge with his son, and also trying to create a sense of unity, by co-parenting and expressing his need to lead in that capacity. He does little things for me, that mean a lot, and I tell him.

I am changing, and can say that I have changed a great deal. Before now, I would have blown up at him and confronted him with MY FEARS. I now recognize that they are mine, and only I can allay them. I have to learn to trust again. I just didn't realize how little I trusted him and in so many WAYS. I know that sounds silly, OF COURSE you wouldn't trust someone who has been unfaithful and hurtful. It's not all about him, though.

He may be fearful that if he doesn't do what I want when I want, that I will tell him to leave AGAIN. I guess we both have some trust to gain.

Believe me, I would much prefer that PWC is a gareden variety former wayward spouse going through withdrawal and adjusting to the new relationship that we have. Heck, I've been quite passive lately, and that is NOT like me. I've been afraid that I will say the wrong thing and hurt him.

It's early yet. I know this now. I'm angry with you guys, though. It was so much easier to point the finger at PWC and pout. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Early in recovery...my husband and I read the Five Love Languages. That book really spoke to my husband - he finally "got" what he needed to do for me.

Keep in mind that your husband is likely clueless..and unaware or unconvinced that he is clueless.

I've heard that book suggested to many here. I used to read with PWC. He doesn't like to read himself, and I sure don't mind talking, so I can narrate. I'll ask him if he wants to join in while I read.

I think BR is one of my SOULMATES... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I also read out loud to my H..he resonated with the book LOVE AND RESPECT by Eggerichs...From it, I "got" what my H needed from ME...

and for YOU, SL...I usually don't do BOOKS ON TAPE..but FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY...was lifechanging for me during RECOVERY..I forget the author...

I'll respond to your post on the P/A Thread over here:

You said....



Don't you think it would be good work for YOU to figure out WHY you've developed this FEAR? There is not a REAL REASON for you to be AFRAID. So what if he WINCES? And why not ASK HIM about his RESPONSE? "Why are you turning away from me, PWC?" Just a SIMPLE QUESTION...Really, WHAT'S THE FEAR? You have the POWER to DEAL with WHATEVER his response MAY be...



When to talk to him? THE FEAR again..Talk to him when YOU want to and FEEL like talking to him. It's about PERSONAL POWER..feeling FREE to BE YOURSELF..to DO and to SAY what YOU want to say..It seems that your self-esteem has been crushed..and you are FEELING BAD ABOUT YOURSELF...remember as I tell, Bugsy..HEAD UP, CHEST HELD OUT..YOU ARE A PRECIOUS FLOWER..

And about the TALKS...I don't think long, drawn-out RELATIONSHIP TALKS are a good idea...For me, it was NECESSARY for me to make CERTAIN points and to ask CERTAIN QUESTIONS..still SHORT AND SWEET...a little at a time....here and there...I think my H did find the idea of LENGTHY DISCUSSIONS to be SCARY...especially when OUR EMOTIONS were so RAW....we were like the WALKING WOUNDED...SO SENSITIVE..so EASILY BRUISED...

This is EXACTLY how I feel about US. I know I am in a strange place right now. I feel like I've been taken under by a wave and I'm trying to figure which way is UP.

I thought that exact expression "walking wounded" about myself; I can only imagine that PWC has so many wounds of his own. Believe it or not, I really feel for him. It hurts me to think he's hurting.

I did really well yesterday; I felt so natural in everything I did, for me, with my son and with PWC. Living day by day...

I am going to start using Jennifer's suggestion to start a sentence with "I would love it if..." and begin to ask for the things that I need. They will be small, like a hug or to sit together on the deck, or to walk around the yard, look at our flowers and such.

Next, I've got to find that babysitter. I'm going to ask the grandparents to see if they can help out at least once a month, maybe an occassional overnight.

Exhale and follow the bubbles!!!


This is a great idea. I am clueless sometimes.(ok a lot of the times, alright most of the time) So asking or telling really helps me.


Only if you want to spend alone time with PWC. Get on it!!!

What be up and stuff SL? You were all the way back on page 4. I hope you are well. The picture album was updated so I saw you with your wonderful son.

I looked at my very original thread today from JFO. I feel like it was 150 years and 10 lifetimes ago. My first D-Day anniversary is still 9-weeks away. Amazing.

Yeah, how are ya, SL?

chris, I didn't spend much time on JFO...do ya have a link to that thread? It'd be nice for others to see your journey especially since you were on such a fast time line.
Seems like you got whacked a few times from Wayzilla and then THUMP - D. Your humor is always uplifting and made me laugh when I didn't think there was any in me. Thank you for those.

Fox

Howdy y'all. There really hasn't been much to report. I have been doing a lot in regards to detaching, and it is helping me emmensely. I no longer have those strange melancholy days. I'm fairly happy most of the time, which is nice. I feel so much more at home with myself, and this new attitude has helped me with my son, too. The patience boat finally docked with me. I found patience! I speak much more calmly with him, anger is no longer with me at all times, just comes and goes like it should.

Things are still pretty much the same, except I can see small changes here and there with PWC. He tends to talk a bit more, just about his day, engage me in conversation a bit more. He's still helpful around the house. HE seems a bit more relaxed. STill not much to report in terms of intimacy, but that really is a road block of his that I can't do much about. I give what he will take, I don't smother, I just hug and kiss and touch when I feel the moment and then let it go.

I take care of myself when I read of veg out in front of the boob-tube (TV to y'all) or post here or whatever I need.

I am suffering quite a bit with seasonal allergies this year, but not much can be done about it unless I resort to allergy shots, and I'm not ready to take that leap yet. I'm still having a lot of problems with numbness in my left hand, and some pain in my arm. I'm off to see a neurologist on Tuesday to help make sense of this. I think I may have inflamed my ulnar nerve or it may be 'trapped'. Not sure, but it seems to be the likely culprit. I can still use the hand, but the loss of sensation makes it more difficult to be precise. Hope it's just inflamation!

I sometimes feel like I'M 150 years old, but that is another story. I do feel like this has been a very LONG journey, and I'm not even at any kind of midway point. That's okay. I'm starting to learn how to care for myself, and soothe myself. Once these allergies wane, I'll be more chipper. It's pretty miserable.

I haven't moved on finding a babysitter yet, but I will.

Work is work, pretty cool in that department. I cut my hours to be home with DS when he gets off the bus in the afternoon, so I got that going for me. It also gives me more time to cook again, which I've always liked, and I missed that.

Feeling like POO right now, so I'm going to read up a bit here, and then shower and lay back down.

Thank you so much for checking up on me.

One of the best things that has come out of all this so far, is my self awareness, and the realization that I was not taking very good care of myself, spiritually or physically.

YOu guys rock! I don't know how I could have gotten to where I am today, without you.

Today, I feel peaceful, or....maybe it's the grogginess from the meds. Either way, I WIN!!!

Thanks for the update. Hope you feel better soon! Glad to hear that you are still "growing", too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You know the saying.....it's a marathon. One checkpoint at a time.

Take care of yourself.

Fox

If I don't get mine [censored] out of bed, I'll be growin' all right...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't neglect the stress component It's not just your heart and mind that are being tortured through all of this--they make sure the rest of your body comes along for the ride.

Sorry about the allergies and benadryl haze. Hope the weekend is better!

So glad to hear from you!

I was just beginning to WONDER....

Yes, LIFE can be GOOD, again... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Having a tough day today. Interestingly, I'm fine, but my M is not. So sad to me.

I have recently made a list (as instructed by Jennifer C) of why I choose to work toward recovery. I won't list them all. I will just say that the ONLY reason right now, is for our son.

That speaks so poorly of our progress, I know.

I feel no closer to PWC than I do to an acquaintance. I feel sad that he never smiles. I don't know if he will ever find it within himself to heal. I now know that there is nothing I can do to help him, not if he is unwilling ot come to me.

I felt compelled to post this today, but kept putting it off. Maybe I'm just down and only seeing the negative today.

I'm still reading and doing all that I can to heal. I realize that I really cannot heal this marriage without him.

I still believe in what Frog has said to me before. Do not make a decision until you are absolutely sure. In other words, make the decision, and then wait to be doubly sure that it is what you truly want. The thought of divorce has popped into my head a number of times in the last week. There are many fears associated with this, most of all, the effect of separation AGAIN on my son, and somewhere in the middle, the loss of the person that I now have faint memories of, my PWC.

It's quite strange laying next to him at night. I used to at least feel sad when we didn't touch or talk. Now, I feel almost nothing. I want to touch him, just to make contact, but his response is so lifeless, it turns me off.

It's just all such a waste. I always thought that we could be so happy again. Reality may be that we will never get there. I keep telling myself that he hasn't gotten to the six months that Jennifer suspects he will take to go through withdrawal. I've just never seen him so withdrawn from me, and it really is only me.

He's great with DS, and around his friends. Makes me wonder if he's just biding his time until I tell him I want a divorce. I just wonder why anyone would do that? We could have filed for D this summer.

I really don't know what to do. *I* have a plan, and I follow it as best I can, but it seems to have very little impact on PWC. Jennifer told me to keep it up as best I can. I dunno. I tried asking PWC what he may need in our M, or what he believes a good marriage has, but he has not answered.

I've got so many questions, but, knowing PWC, one is hard enough, much less the myriads I have in my head.

Hmmm, just thinking aloud. I wonder how many people felt this same way. I wonder how former waywards, who are now recovered, acted in the beginning. My sensors say that his current state is unusual.

I don't want to be discouraging, I just don't know how to put a happy spin on this. It's so strange to me.