SL,

I eat carbs. LOL. My diet was simple and to this day is pretty easy to maintain. Eat alot of something you like to eat that is low cal with water about a half an hour before you eat.

For me I like tomatoe and cucumber with red onion and balsamic vinigar. So before dinner I ate a bowl of that with water and then had my pasta for dinner. But I wasn't starving when I sat down.

I like citrus too so I eat a ton of citrus. It is sweet and good for you I think.

I am Italian I could never do no carb.

With your sitch it is hard. My FWW never filled out the EN questionaire but in MC I called her out on it. Tell me what is important and I will Try. If you give me 5 things I will try to do better. I can show you measured improvement. But it has to be worth while.

One MC used brownie points. Why bust your butt to do something that you think is getting you 20 brownie points when she only gives you one. There might be something that gets you the 20 brownie points that you could bust your butt on.

Lose the weight it is good for you to do!!!!! However if he has 7 other things that he wants to change that are more important focus on what are his Biggest Needs!!.

Print it out and ask him the questions. LOL

I've been out for a while and tried to catch up on the last, what, seven or so pages.


So, to me this sounds like Feelings, which is the crap that got him into trouble in the first place. "I just don't FEEL that way." ("I wish that I did. Really. But not so much that I will actually do anything about it, because, after all, I can't help what I feel.") Fog.

My guess is that the weight comment is more about his feeling awkward than a real issue. "I just don't feel it. It must be your weight" as opposed to really examining his own stuff, which is almost certainly at the core. Guilt, fear, hurt. I'm just guessing, of course, but I would worry about your weight if you want to do it for YOU.

I'm concerned about what he is (or isn't) putting into recovery. He won't do IC. He won't do MC. It's another month or so until you can check in with Jennifer again? Try to hang in until then.

So, what else did I miss?

This is ALL that matters to ME.

This is ALL about SL...becoming the BEST WIFE that she can BE...that's PART of her PERSONAL RECOVERY...

I try to share what has worked for ME..having been VERY HAPPILY RECOVERED for 4 years to a a WH who most definitely WAS NOT IN LOVE with me ANYMORE....and who is most definitely IN LOVE with ME NOW...

We did NO IC, MC nor MB during our Recovery...

I'm not advocating THAT..but IT IS WHAT IT IS....

I LED..HE FOLLOWED...

In fact, as I am trying to post now, he won't stop talking to me so I'm gonna run....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Mimi, even though you did not MB during recovery, you knew the principles, right? In my circumstances, I didn't know anything about MB. We struggled long and recovery was difficult.

So SL, I've also been "VERY HAPPILY RECOVERED"... for 3 years "to a a WH who most definitely WAS NOT IN LOVE with me ANYMORE....and who is most definitely IN LOVE with ME NOW..." but...

I wouldn't recommend the way we (DH & I) recovered to anyone. It was by the Grace of God and lots of prayer that we made it.

I recommend that you listen carefully to Mimi. The girl's got good stuff about what will get you there faster. Heck, I STILL use some of the stuff Mimi says and I'm way further down the road than you.

Mimi,

It's inspiring to know that you were following MB, and your husband was not, but you still were able to follow and incorporate positive changes in the marriage. This is my goal.

Now, as for what PWC will or won't do in terms of MC, I'm not focused solely on that. I'm trying to open my eyes to what he IS doing. This is a process that we each do in our own time. The conversation we had constitutes recovery to me, moving in the right direction.

Everything doesn't have to happen today, but recovery must be ONGOING. If we stall, I reserve the right to question what the problem is, and work from there. Hopefully, PWC will start bringing things up on his own. I think we have a ways to go before that.

Reality is, he may be doing what Guy Smiley says,



that fog which can only be counteracted with LIGHT and TIME. I think we all need to agree that this is not going to be a MB recovery on both sides. Let's just start there. I will be using the principles as MY guide. REmember, we are both susceptible to affairs; I am not above it, I suppose, although, having been through what I have, I don't believe it is something I would choose to do. It seems to be a waste of precious time (affairs, that is).

Now that we have agreed that PWC (for now) is not 'into' MB, and I will assert that PWC is not going to do IC or MC. The next step is doing what we can to move recovery along. Unfortunately, that means that I will be leading this expedition. YIKES!!! Actually, I am a good leader, but can be like a drill seargent if allowed--that dang military training, it's engrained.

This does not mean that PWC is exempt from doing his part. Outside of MB, I would EXPECT, YES EXPECT a husband, not some freeloading, cake eating, fence sitter. He knows this, especially now. I have to give him time and keep making my own efforts.

I really have had a breakthrough. I FEEL something inside, confidence, maybe, or the fear subsiding, opening me up. I don't know exactly what. Maybe it's both, and more. I just know that I am going to need help in the coming months, and hope you guys stick around to hear me out.

SL, Were you the leader Pre-A?

Chrisner,

Short answer, yes, initially, I was a leader; as the relationship grew and changed, and especially after we had DS, I became BOSSY.

I did not like that position.

Now, it seems, I'm back in the leader position. I think a good leader inspires, teaches, can be an example, and challenges the other party/ies.

I think of my Volleyball coach like this, as well as my Drill Seargent.

I'm just going to LEAD by example right now. When/if PWC catches up, maybe he will be inspired to LEAD. I have a strong drive to be happy, and not that temp happy from a HIGH, but a happy that exists within.

I think it's natural that the BS lead in early recovery; we have the tools. If I just handed over the tools and sat down, somebody might lose a limb. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Anybody need a used woodchipper? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well it sure looks like he needs both a good nurturing leader and an occasional opportunity to lead.

I know you may not know, but what was his role dominance wise in his affairs? Were they little anti-SL’s who he could command his every whim?

I apologize SL, but reading here these last couple weeks PWC seems like a total fogged-out, thumb-sucker lying on the floor in a fetal position. I want to hire a little troop of Girl Scout Brownies to kick his butt.

And you have made such amazing strides these past weeks in self awareness and improvement.

Is he afraid of you?

Hmmmm....really, really interesting question.

Ask more, chris.

Are you thinking along the lines of adequacy/inadequacy? That SL is so "highly evolved" that he is acutely aware of his own fetal position-thumb-sucking-ness? That SL has many competencies that he lacks, so he feels vulnerable and afraid?

Something like that?

SL,

Just wanted to put in a bid for the wood chipper!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Also, I have to admit that Chris just said what I've been thinking lately, too, about PWC. It's like he's just there, waiting & watching YOU, while he is contibuting nothing. I know it's hard, but I have to admire your willingness and ability to just Lead ON! Good job!!

I am working on that "happiness from within" myself!

Please do not go in the direction of trying to analyze PWC...

We are going to hold him to what HE SAYS...

We are going to encourage SL to TALK to HIM and ASK HIM QUESTIONS...

We are praying that he will be as HONEST as possible...

THIS IS ABOUT SL...not HIM...

There is NO WAY we can know PWC as well as he can know HIMSELF ... it's up TO HIM to WORK on HIS ISSUES if he CHOOSES to do so...

THIS IS SL'S WORK on HERSELF....

I think PWC is trying to HEAL from the pain of his A..that's the IMMEDIATE PROBLEM..and he needs the LOVING HELP of his WIFE...

As I do live with PWC, I do have some understanding of him. He may be struggling with the fact that he is NOT where I am, but I think on it differently. He may want me to slow down a bit, and give him time to catch up.

Let me give you an example. At work, we have recently hired a QA (quality assurance) person to look at our outgoing products to customers, and help us to inject more quality into what we send out. She is there to bring us up. Well, she came from an environment of much stricter rules for production/puification of materials for market. We do not produce anything directly for the market. Her experience has her working on a level much higher than us.

Recently, she has had to lower her expectations of how quickly we can come UP to where she is, knowing that we need more time to implement new procedure, paperwork and knowledge, as well as working on that new level on a daily basis. She recognized that she needed to slow down; that this would be a longer process than she had envisioned.

Now, we are STILL going to have to raise to a higher level of quality with our outgoing work. We DO quality work, but don't have the documentation in place to back it up. I believe that PWC is like my company. He can produce quality stuff, but he needs time to catch up to my QA capabilities.

For some, this will make sense, for others, you can begin reading again.

Anyway, I do believe that PWC feels somewhat alone right now; he is coming from the other side of this thing.

I do believe in trying to better understand him, and I have wondered if he feels, hmmm, not inadequate, but something along those lines. HE may have a need to feel elevated above 'the infidel' status. Unfortunately, I can only admire him for what he's doing, not what he's thinking or wanting to do. I can't know what's in his head unless he decides to tell me.

I will continue to talk to him. Right now, I don't really have any questions. Not any that he hasn't already answered.

It's fun to play with QA people. It can make up for how difficult it is to find their sense of humor sometimes.

It's good that you think PWC is trying and that he wants to get there. It would be better if you felt that he had the right tools at his disposal that you could be confident that he will get there. Of course, you can't make him do or think or feel *anything*, so it's up to him.

WONDERFUL, SL!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Silent:

IF you were to look upon PWC as a Thumb-sucking Mama's boy, how would that change your behavior to him? Around him?

Because even if he was, he's still your H.

Mimi is telling you to let him own his own stuff.

Then let him own it, let hom grow in his competentcies as needed.

Your drill Sgt background does no good here. Let him pick up and carry his own telephone pole.

Yes, Sir!
No, Sir!
No Excuse, Sir!

Doesn't work in the home.

Let him talk. LEt him lead the talk.

Him seeing that you are NOT going back to the DI type behavior will allow him to see that you are different.

DS is getting older. Let him be DAD.

This is a SLOW process.

And I would like to give PWC a kick in the pants.

But, alas, that ain't going to happen.

He's been watching you, and liking what he sees, but still hasn't reconciled to the NEW S/L.

I hope he starts soon.

LG

I, too, am happy with what I see in me.

No more DI in the home.

He is being DAD. I defer to him on many things that I never even asked him about before--difference is, now he WANTS to be DAD.

His 'stuff' resides with him.

LG, thank you for posting; you have a perspective that I can't come from, and every post helps me to understand a bit more.

Guy smiley,
PWC will find the tools when he is ready to use them. Let's just hope it's sooner than later.

I do believe that he has a lot to work through of his own, not JUST the marriage. I've had time to do a lot of that before he was around, and continue to have breakthroughs.

I will probably get impatient, on and off, it's natural.

I am relieved and glad that we talked about a few VERY HEAVY subjects. I have a better idea of where he is right now. It's good.

I started taking Allegra last Thursday, and it seems to be helping with the ragweed allergy. I still have some congestion and runny nose issues, but the itchy eyes, ears and throat are at a dull roar, which is nice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OE, allergies...I hate allergies...I've been sneezing my head off since we moved back into the house...

SLowly...ever so slowly...I'm getting it clean...

GOOD TO HEAR that you and PCW are working through some stuff...I understand the impatience from time to time, having to wait from someone to catch up...I think that you are going to do better than you think...

You have had amazing patience from my POV in the past...in God's time, not our's...God's time is always right...I've had to learn that one the hard way...brought a lot of self sabbotage on myself...when I finally gave it up and turned it over to him, things got better...

You're amazing, what else can I say!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks sweet lady Rin!

I have laid to rest the ghost of control. It doesn't work. You can't MAKE someone fall in love with you in YOUR time, it's bossy and unattractive. Mimi has a good point when she says to seduce him. I kept thinking it was DO IT NOW, but I think she means to incorporate that way of thinking into my every day, not just for SF.

I think of seduction as more of a wooing of him, and that takes time, and consistency.

I must say, since our conversation, things are a bit more stable. I don't know if it's me having more confidence, and not focusing on his stuff, or if it's him relaxing a bit, not feeling under the microscope, or BOTH.

We're not hyucking it up or anything like that, but you can tell the tension isn't nearly as high, or even existent most times.

I quote this again today, for different reasons.

I know PWC sees my changes. He's said it on a number of occassions. He's also said so very often that I deserve better (than him and his treatment of me). I don't disagree with him. He's also said that he's not attracted to me. I see this quote differently today; he sees' the changes and doesn't like what he sees.

I've noticed lately, that I am really not interested in wooing him anymore. I hate to admit that, but it's the truth. I think I'm running out of steam. Even cheerleaders have to lay down their Poms now and then.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to give. I believe that part of the problem is one of us (ME) believes in filling the other's EN's, and the other of us (PWC) doesn't believe in giving if you don't FEEL it first.

I don't have faith that this is going to work out in my favor, even if I keep giving and trying, I just don't see it.

In most of the cases where recovery occurred, BOTH parties were willing to do what it took. I believe I have someone who WANTS the marriage, but CAN'T (his words OFTEN) just make it work. He CAN'T do it (whatever IT is).

Meh, that's the perspective today. Who know's what tomorrow will bring. I ask myself the question, regularly, "Can you keep going?" Today, I can. I look at my list of reasons to stay, and the only one keeping me here is to keep my son's family together.

Sad, the lesson he's learning about marriage right now, is spouses don't touch, don't laugh together much and don't SHOW love. So sad.

Reading my previous posts, I can't seem to keep a positive attitude. I just don't know how, under the circumstances.

I still feel good about me, about changing, bettering who I am. I don't see it as helping my marriage right now, that's all.