He is making depostits doing it his way but they are small. Our MC tried to explain it to us this way. Kinda Love bank but not quite.

Say I buy my wife flowers she likes them but I only get one point for that, or deposit. I could give her a foot rub and get 10 points because she likes that. I can't expect her to ever give me 10 points for the flowers so I would have to buy her flowers 10 times to equal one foot massage.

I can completly empathize with you on this. My FWW still doesn't get it. Simple list of things that will make me happy. Occasionally I check it and nope, nadda, zilch but if I look at her list she has given herself check marks for things that don't hold much value to me.

If you become disencanted by his actions or inactions that is just a consequence he will have to deal with.

Again this is about you being the best SL and be damned the reward or consequence to your M.

When the time comes you can decide. We know it isn't time right now.

To me you go complete each phase to the best of your ability then move to the next.

I don't feel like I've completed any kind of phase, and am not 'in sync' as, I think, Orchid puts it. I'm not making any decisions right now. I'm not ready.

Ok then!!!

Now that you realize that put your decesions about the future on the backburner and work on Today.

Hey, what's up?

Did I read the D word on your thread?

What about this?

What if you say straight up.."LET'S HAVE SEX..I need it..."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

That would be enough to get me to crawl out of my own casket!

Yes, Mimi, you read the D word, dangit! Anger, fear, resentment, mark my earlier posts. Now I'm just plain angry.

I like the approach and will give it a try, when I'm not illen'. I can honestly say I don't think I have been so ill so often in the whole of my life.

I have now broken down into a flood of tears and I don't know why. I'm so tired.

I know that I am not unattractive, but to him, I AM, and that is not someone I want to have sex with. The entire time, I will be thinking about him HAVING to touch me, and that is just not a happy thought. Who needs these thoughts?

Yes, this is my fear, my problem, but it's based in reality of our sitch right now, and it just plain SUX. I want some resolution. I'm just not understanding WHY PWC is here. I think I need to ask that question.

Sounds like a plan. Let us know what he says.

I don't advocate asking him for sex. I keep coming back to the same thing. He knows you want it but won't give it to you.

THAT IS purposely not filling an EN. I don't see where a person should have to come out and almost demand for an EN to be filled.

You have hinted, told, asked dressed up etc. It is at some point on him.

I'm running out of steam, asking for hugs and kisses and SEX. THe response is so dead, it's just not worth it to keep pushing and pushing.

It's just doing what he may want, and that is pushing me further away toward indifference. I'm not saying he does, but it sure as he!! doesn't make any sense otherwise. I would LOVE to be wrong about this. The last false recovery, he just latched on to some other woman, saying they were just friends, ANYTHING other than deal with me. This reaction of his smacks of AVOIDANCE.

I'm just sick and tired, literally!

Silent,

Wish I had something GREAT to say to help you.

All I can contribute right now is

{{{{Silent}}}}

You are in my prayers sweetie!

Hey, SL. I wish I had some great advice to offer, but I don't. Thinking about you and wishing the best.

Trying to figure out where I am.

Right seems like the law of diminshing returns at work.


Then STOP be still and get better. A sick and tired SL is not a good thing.

You need some SL time and SL time only.

Hi Silent,

I think you are right to come out and ask him WHY he came back/why he is there. If he is not contributing at all to the recovery of the M. I would definitely talk to the Harley's again. Recovery takes two willing people. You don't have to make any decisions now, but it seems like you really are suffering and need some answers.

As for the SF, I agree with the others, you have told him, hinted, initiated, etc..at this point I would engage in a bit of snooping. I say this because he has made no attempt at SF at all in a long time and I would want to be sure that NC was still in place. At least you would know what you are dealing with...If he is still in contact it would put this in perspective for you. Your self-esteem takes a huge hit everytime you feel rejected by him. He knows you want/need SF...Ask the questions you need answers to otherwise it is just guessing and assuming what the problem is...I hope he will open up and be honest with you.

Sometimes, it is hard not to think that he is setting you up to be the bad guy. Doing as little as possible and waiting for you to end the M....and I think he must be aware of how you feel, because you have been honest about your need for SF and your need for basic affection/attention...He has to know that he needs to begin to work harder on the M at some point...and begin to meet your needs... He came back in April or May? It has almost been 6 months.

I would definitely keep talking to the Harley's, letting them know what his contributions to the recovery of the M have been thus far. They may suggest a completely different course of action.

((Silent))

I at least need to sit still for a bit.

SL is going to go lay down right now, with some hot tea. I'm going to let the world just rotate for one night.

I was kinda joking...

Why not?????

Why not GET WILD and try to have some FUN with it all...

We need PEP around to liven up the FORUM again...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

AND, more seriously, I agree with RW..

I'm suspicious of HIM...

I think there maybe contact..

If it were ME, I would do my own detective work, ask him WHAT'S UP, why are you here as MY ROOMATE..plus, I would ask him for SEX because of MY NEED for it...that's just ME, though...I mean what are you supposed to do???? That bugs me about affairs in the first place..among the other zillion things that I HATE...it's legit for you be SEXUAL with your H..they're off with the OP being SEXUAL..which is definitely NOT legit.. expecting us to remain celibate... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

i asked him what his intial goal was when he returned home. He responded "to be happy here". I asked what his goal is now. He began to repond with 'I'm trying...". I said that was not the question, the question was what was his GOAL. "To be happy here". I said thanks for your honesty.

I have checked his textmessages, and he has sent them to only me, his coworker or one of his friends since July. I know he had contact in either late may or June, regarding Aimless' resume (she cited him as one of her contacts--little b!tch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />--sorry, I digress).

See Aimless is just an 'innocent' in all of this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. PWC talked her into the R (right--that gun held to her head and all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). He will probably always feel that for her. Poor wittle Aimless <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. Poor little biotch, if you ask me, playing house with a married man with a child. He won't see that though. My pain is nothing compared to theirs, you see. They are star crossed lovers (um, Romeo and Juliet were TEENAGERS).

I digress.

I will straight out ask about contact. None on his cell or his email (that I have access to). HE could have opened another account. He's currently got hotmail, gmail, yahoo, home account and work. HE's got a MySpace page, which I check. His bank account. He's here when he is not at work. I can't afford to hire a PI right now. I can't even afford to call the Harley's right now. I saved for the last call, and have been banking money since then so that I can call again.

HEre's the rub. He could just get another email account, he could just get another phone, she could call him at work. Meeting at work would be harder, but his coworker is off one day and week, and his younger half brother goes to work as an intern with him 4 days a week, and rides in with PWC. I can only suspect that there has been phone or work email contact, if any.

I haven't asked that question since June. Time to ask again. Seems highly likely. I did ask him to tell me when there was contact, but why would he admit to it? He knows I will be angry, and maybe even decide to end this.

Well..there you go...with any contact, WITHDRAWAL starts all over again..remember WITHDRAWAL..3 to 6 months...

I'm thinking he is more of the 6 months kinda guy. Six months, from May, would have been November. I knew about the contact pretty soon after it was made, so I was aware. That would move withdrawal to December. BUT--is there any excuse that can be made for a lack of focus on the marriage, EVEN during withdrawal. Wouldn't focusing on ME, help him to heal more quickly?

It seems like he's wallowing in self pity. He keeps talking about 'I'm TRYYYYYYING...". It almost sounds like he's holding some big pity party for himself all the time. Poor PWC, so unhappy, trying so hard to make it right. Well, is he, really? trying to make it right, I mean.

I don't believe in trying so much as I believe in performing the actions to result in some change. Trying, I see as a cop out. If you say you are trying, you don't have to SHOW that you are, or WHAT you are doing.

Let's put it in perspective. My son does something, say like dropping the game controller, over and over again, because he doesn't put it away after use. He trips over the cord and knocks it down from whatever perch he's placed it upon. When I tell him that he wouldn't have that problem if he just put it away where it is much safer, he says "I'm tryyyyyying to remember to do that". I tell him that he will only get results from DOING, not TRYING to do.

I feel like that is what PWC is DOING, TRYYYYING to do. That way, you have an out for things that you find difficult or unpleasant. The longer he holds out, the more difficult things become. I become more angry, he becomes more fearful.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve!

OH, and Aimless isn't a biotch, she's a [email]tw@t![/email] Can y'all tell that I place some blame on that doofus, as well as the first [email]tw@t[/email], we'll call her c u n...oh, I don't think I'm gonna finish that one. I could get into lotsa trouble for that one.

That is the funniest thing. I had that same conversation with my FWW not so long ago. I simply said you have been "trying" for far to long. You asked me to stop smoking a year ago. What would your response to me be if I said today "I am Trying". She had no answser. Then I said would it make you "happy or content" if I was still "trying". She said no. I then said why should I be happy and content that you are still "trying"? I think a light bulb went on.

It is all about our goal. If the goal is to try to be...... then you have an out. Instead of trying we should DO. It is a different mindset.

There becomes a point that you can't suffer because of his contact. Contact is always a possiblity, even accidental contact.

I also agree with you about OW and all OP's. It is amazing to me that a morally compromised person can be held in a good light. These are homewreckers.

Now as far as PWC wanting to be happy. Although that is at least an answer he needs to be specific about what will make him happy.

If having orgies would be one of his criteria for happiness you may decide to part ways. If coming home to a wife with a martini in one hand and his smoking jacket in the other makes him happy then you may try to do that.

Again he is being non specific. Happiness is up to him not you. I know from experiance that you can do everything someone says will make them happy and they are still not happy.

From my own experience with happiness/unhappiness, I know it is in the hands of self. PWC will have to dig in to find that out. AGAIN, I say that if I pointed anything out to him, it would bother him. HE does not take criticism of any kind well. He seems childlike when he receives it. He's the kind of person that wants a boss to review him, but not say anything negative or point out places he could improve.

Now, if he wants a martini ready and waiting, I would be happy to do that, but the orgies are OUT.

Really, he was nonspecific about happy. He was also on his way out the door; well, he had time, but he wanted to get going.

I will be asking about what he feels contributes to his state of happy. If my own experience tells me anything, he won't know the answer, because he hasn't really done the work to find that out about HIMSELF, as far as I know. I have been in his shoes. I looked outside myself, and blamed PWC for my UNHAPPINESS.

I was also deeply depressed and full of anxiety at the time, which makes it hard to think, much less see where you are going wrong. I have a much better perspective now.

This whole thing boils down to PWC needing to DO and work on himself. I'm not a saint here, but I DO and work on myself. REally, I just need to know ONE thing from him about his needs, just ONE thing, and I'm in. It's almost as if he is shooting himself in the foot.

FEAR is probably at the root. Fear of failure, fear of succeeding, fear of self, fear of doing to only find unhappiness, fear of discoverying something about himself that is unsavory. I have looked in that mirror and found enough to be disappointed in how I was carrying myself. I can't imagine what he would find.