This is a problem.

So what if you do a,b,c,d,f and those are ok but he really needs E to make him happy. You are not willing or able to give him E. Where do you go from there.

You can POJA it but if you don't know how do you CONTRIBUTE to his happiness.

I think really as a spouse it is my goal to contribute to the happiness. I am not responsible for her over all happiness but I would like to be a contributing factor.

So far he will say he is not this or that with you but he won't give you the clear instructions. IE EN questionairre.

You need a roadmap to success!!! He should at least be willing to give you that.

I have thought about the EN questionnaire. He was talking about it when he first came home. It's something that we could DO, instead of TRY. With him, it has become apparent that he is not going to just tell me what he needs, or hint or show.

I think the same about contributing to his happiness. It's nice to come home to a happy place, and I would like this to be that for him. What does he consider a comfortable happy place? How does it look? Cleanliness factor (I'm pretty neat,b ut the kid is like a tornado) Food? Drinks? Music? What do you need to feel comfy?

I know that when I initially filled out the EN questionnaire, I found out some intersting things about myself, and it helped me to learn how to self soothe. It could be helpful for PWC just to start thinking about what he does need. I really believe that he is unaware. I KNOW he liked SF. I know he craved them. I know he liked affection. I know he liked admiration. I know he liked conversation.

SL,


I DARE you to print out the EN questionairre and just start going through it with PWC.

I DARE you to do it with him instead of trying to get him to do it.

I DARE you to find out what you can do to contribute the most you can to his happiness.

Sometimes we spend our energy doing something for our spouse that only minimilly contributes when we could spend the same energy doing something that maximizes our contribution to their happiness. If that didn't make sense I tried. LOL

The funny thing is you THINK you KNOW. Just like you I was a little suprised about my EN questionairre. LOL

I once heard "Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile ...initially scared me to death."

So it may be a little scarey but it will probably be worthwhile.

SO...WITHDRAWAL IS to DECEMBER...unless there has been more recent contact which will move WITHDRAWAL even later...

IT IS WHAT IT IS, SL...no way around this as clearly explained by Harley in SAA and HNHN..WITHDRAWAL, 3 to 6 months from last contact...no changing the philosophy based on what YOU want...

I did this myself...Sept started our recovery..I think my H had some contact in February..I started counting all over again..

I believed in MB and became sold out on the system and couldn't be happier today...

I can't say your H is like mine..but UNTIL WITHDRAWAL WAS COMPLETELY OVER..he didn't really FEEL IT for ME altogether...



My H said the EXACT same thing...part of the SCRIPT...

I know you are using an analogy..but don't compare PWC to your son..

He is a FWS..AN ALIEN BEING...not like any real person I've ever known..CREEPY HOW WEIRD A WS CAN BE...A RECOVERED OR RECOVERING DRUG ADDICT!!!

This stuff called RECOVERY IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT...hard to do..the HARDEST THING you may ever do...

I SAY THIS IS ALL WITHDRAWAL OR CONTINUED CONTACT...no DEEP ANALYSIS necessary...

I've been studying this, SL...

I don't think MEN like to be CRITICIZED by their WOMAN...as part of my PERSONAL RECOVERY, I did ALOT of work on trying to understand MEN..MY HUSBAND...I strongly recommend the books LOVE AND RESPECT by Eggerichs and WILD AT HEART by ELDREDGE....Me "getting this stuff" has made a TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE in myself, our relationship and our marriage...



Glad you added in, AS FAR AS I KNOW..sounding like a DJ..and there seems to be AN ASSUMPTION that he is AT ALL LIKE YOU..and thinks and feels..LIKE YOU...

Accept that your H maybe ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than YOU..and be OPEN to ACCEPTING WHO HE IS...I recently said this to my H about MYSELF.."I don't think and feel the same way about life as YOU DO..it's not OK to make that ASSUMPTION"..so now WE openly SHARE with each other NOW..who we are...NOT MAKING ANY ASSUMPTIONS....




Maybe so..Maybe not..up for HIM to say...

IMO, WITHDRAWAL....

So..continue to work on yourself..DO YOUR READING...work on your ATTRACTIVENESS, etc...don't expect him to DO anything...

BTW, why "NO ORGIES" but able to fix him a martini????..just wondering...

Orgy
Simultaneous sexual activity among more than two people.

I'm no longer interested in a third, fourth, or fifth party in our relationship. Um , never was, actually.

Now a martini could lead to SEX, naughtiness and such, and I'm all in for that.

As for the DJ, I recognize that he doesn't think like me, that's why I add the disclaimer of how I think, 'in my experience'. I do agree that the way it came out still sounded like I thought he thought as I do.

I'll keep in mind that he doesn't think like me. That is part of why I asked what his goal was. I have no idea. Now, he's said what he thinks and I do have an idea.

Now, I have more questions cropping up. I think we should have another timed session of discussion, and I'm going to bring up that I feel we should have sex, regardless of how we FEEL right now.

Forgive me, SL..

I didn't know you meant a REAL ORGY...

I've been SOOO busy these days and sometimes dont' read closely enough...

Of course you wouldn't do something DREADFUL like THAT...

Sorry again...

oh, Mimi, no biggie. I'm all for naughty, though. I miss naughty.

"I'm all for naughty, though. I miss naughty."

That's what I've been trying to tell ya..

If YOU miss NAUGHTY in YOUR LIFE..find a way to be NAUGHTY...don't let him hold YOU back from being who YOU want to be...

For example, I went out and bought a hold new wardrobe of nighties..JUST FOR ME..didn't discuss this with my H..of course, he NOTICED and LIKES IT..but I did this for MYSELF...like PLAYING DRESSUP again...

wha wha what?

CONTINUED CONTACT????? I would think that if PWC refuses to make EXTRAORINARY efforts to avoid contact then WITHDRAWL will continue at 3-6 month time frames from here to etirnity.. I would say that is something that should be deeply analyzed.

At some point advocating PLAN A for longer then the philosophy encourages can lead to resentment or doormatism.

SL did you read my post daring you to do the EN questionaire.

He may not like you getting dressed up. He may want you to wear a wife beater and some torn up panties. You won't know until you ask.

SL:

Read what the HARLEYS say about RECOVERY...

This is not my VIEWPOINT..

It is theirs...

Later, when I have time, I will find that well highlighted section of my books which as you know I read over and over again...and tried to APPLY...

Yes..it can go on and on...if he maintains contact..

And you can't FORCE him..to do the EN QUESTIONNAIRE or anything else...

IT IS THE WAY IT IS...

This is a tough, hard, long and winding road..you can stay on it or go off of it..YOUR CHOICE..

I don't wish this on ANYBODY...

I don't know how in the world I did it...

I'm happier for it...

I've never had CHEMOTHERAPY but I think that might be a good analogy...you have to go through to get to the other side...

THROUGH THE FIRE..as someone here once told me...

My H NEVER DID THE EN QUESTIONNAIRE.. His NEEDS were very obvious to me..he eventually TOLD me without having to fill it out...Steve Harley: "You can't be a teacher without a student.."

Quote from Page 62 of SAA:

"MARITAL RECOVERY CANNOT BEGIN UNTIL WITHDRAWAL HAS ENDED"...

Read Chapter 6, SL...

p. 70:

"IF (my caps) there is TOTAL SEPARATION from the lover, the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last about THREE WEEKS and then FADE OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS...if a slip occurs and contact is made with a lover during withdrawal, the clock goes back to zero, and the period of withdrawal starts all over again. So, those few who report lingering withdrawal symptoms after SIX MONTHS are usually guilty of making sporadic contacts with the former lover, and lying about those contacts with their spouse"....

IN the FACE of CONTACT and withdrawal DEPOSITS are not recognized.

My point is if CONTACT has occurred there needs to be analysis.

Worry NO deal with Yes.

SL cannot make him do it but as an empowered person she can print up the ENQ sit down next to PWC and ask him the questions!!!! Why not advocate that as an action

SL needs to continue working toward a solution but focusing on her is not the only answer.

Mimi are you advocating ignoring the importance of NC?

That's what I've been thinking. Either contact has occurred and he hasn't said anything or something's up in Denmark. SL, it has been way too long for you to go without SF, if you guys are supposed to be recovering. You said yourself that it was important to him before. Unless he's got something medical going on... I just don't get it.

Nope..I'm SIMPLY saying...RECOVERY has not started 'cause he's still going through WITHDRAWAL as reported earlier today by SL..

MAJOR WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE ON PWC COMMITTING TO EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS OR RECOVERY WILL NEVER COMMENCE...

I think that's ONE MAJOR THING that my H became committed to on his own right away..HE KNEW that he had to do that..and knew that he would go into withdrawal from her if he even saw her..how yucky for US who have a spouse who was ADDICTED to another person..but it is what it is..the HARLEYS even advocate moving and that's exactly what we are going to do...my H, though, has become even more committed to the EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS than me..crazy as it is and sounds...

I would give this priority over the EN QUESTIONNAIRE...

I'm not knocking that idea as much as saying that PWC is not there yet..

He is NOT GONNA BE HAPPY with SL because he is in WITHDRAWAL over the loss of AIMLESS or whomever...

Since you guys have been right so many times about my journey, that it is scary, I have asked PWC about contact. No response as of yet, y'know, cause he's at work, and can't talk about these things in front of coworkers. (He has his own office WITH a door, and it would take about two minutes to tell me, but whatever).

The fact that I have heard nothing SCREAMS contact. It had to have been either at work, or thru another cell phone. I'm not going snooping, damnit, he's just going to have to man up and tell me, just simple. He knows now that I think something is afoot.

Notice, whenever you guys have asked me about contact, I say NONE THAT *I* KNOW OF. I check up, but what am I checking up on. All of the emails that he has given me went INACTIVE as of his return home. Info was erased (which I would expect) and no new stuff has come thru.

I just want the truth. I want the opportunity to make my own decisions about this stuff.

And to this...



Since I can't force him, what is my alternative but to stop attempting recovery and go back to Plan B, which would mean trying to remove him from the home.

Since he said that his goal is to be happy at home, with his family, I would need MORE from him than his supposed transparency. What would that be? A post-nuptial? If he wouldn't agree to some new DEMAND for recovery, what do I do?

Let me be clear, I do not want to divorce if it can be avoided, if we can have a healthy, happy, fulfilling relationship. What alternative would I have but divorce in this situation?

How many strikes does this guy get before he's OUT?

(((((Miss Lucidity)))) I'm thinking of you and your son, SL, hoping the best for you.

Wish I had some words to comfort or reassure you.....

You are an incredibly strong and intelligent woman.

Fox

BTW, I am going to start reading SAA again, where it references our current sitch.

Thanks guys for posting this stuff. I don't think to pick up the book, I just come here. I make you guys do all the hard work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I also want you guys to know, I am not AFRAID of whatever he says about this. I will handle it with cool, level head. I'm seriously just tired of the lack of seriousness that is given to NC and our R. It's treated as if I will always be some fall back. I am the 'easy out'.

The doormat thing is where we were headed, and I'm not physically able to contort like that anymore. I've been trod upon enough.