Or let him know you have the same fear. You fear not being the Woman he needs/wants you to be. However because of your deep love for him and the history you have you will make every effort under the sun to be that Woman for him.

Agreed, Mimi.

I have told him that he CAN be the man I need. I dont' think he likes the condition that it's up to HIM.

I also remember my own withdrawal after contact with him during our separation, and a phone call we had during Plan B.

Well, he just called and is coming home earlier (skipping TaeKwanDo) cause his belly aches and his head is throbbing.

This has been a most productive day on the forum for me. Thanks all who chimed in. Much food for thought. I feel a good conversation coming on. Maybe I'll give PWC a reprieve until his belly don't ache no mo. It's always best to face a challenge in tip top condition, mind body and soul.

oooo, Frog, good point. That too. I'll talk about that, too. 'cause to be honest, I've thought that since he decided to have his needs met with OW. What was missing here that he had to go and get it. If I wasn't meeting his EN's then I was NOT the woman that he needed.

Thank you I make a good point once every week or two. I am now all used up.

SL - Man, did these words speak to me! I lost my mom in May of 99 and boy I could have written your post. I've been thinking of her a lot lately. I think fall coming on is making me nostalgic. She loved the holidays and always made them so special. She was only 46 when she died, it was so unexpected, I thought I'd have her around until she was a little old lady.

I too ache that she doesn't know her two grandsons. She only knew my DD until she was 5, my DD has no memory of her. It hurts, and I still mourn it. I don't dwell on it though like I did when she first passed. It kind of ebbs and flows. Like you said about your son laughing and it triggers a thought of her.

I just wanted to tell you I can relate!

(I brought this over from Sis's thread to yours so I wouldn't TJ hers.)

'99 was a bad year for many, it seems. My dad died in May '99.

Although we were not close, there is still sadness for what "could of been".

Fox

fcf,

I hear ya. My mother was 54 when she died, after fighting for 5 years against the cancer. It was a very strange time.

Fox, very bad year indeed. FCF suffered loss in the same MONTH that you did. So strange...

My mom died from cancer too. Only she didn't last as long, she passed away 2 months after being diagnosed. It was hard to watch such a vivacious woman wither away so quickly.

And that is eery wild. '99 was a bad year I guess!

SL: My dad was diagnosed in '97 and died in '01. As you said, it was a very strange time. Up and down emotionally, lots of fear, lots of grief, lots of sadness and anxiety, lots of back and forth between my folks house (an hour away) and mine.

DS9 was born in '98, just before DS11's 3rd birthday. I started my job in '99 after being home for a year. So not only strange, but incredibly stressful. I'm sure I was operating on autopilot most of the time.

All that said, with the similarities...what do you all think about these tragic losses of our parents and how our spouses reacted? Were those experiences precipitating factors in the A?

Don't want to TJ, but it seems a common denominator to many of us here. Just curious what others think. I know that I have thought many times (retrospectively) that my response to my dad's illness and death took a real toll on our marriage.

Yeah, it took a toll on mine for a while. My H didn't agree with the way some things were handled and was very vocal. Long story... but my mom's H at the time was a real creep and he sued us over her will. It was very stressful. I am a FWW, I think I had and A as an escape. I was an emotional trainwreck and the A was a release.

I still remembering my H critisizing the way my sister and I acted towards my mom when we went into see her just after the doctors told us how grim her situation was. He felt we should be more cheery. I was like, when your parents are dying, lets see how cheery you are!!

He's gotten a lot more sensetive now. Also, I think, like most people, he didn't grasp the seriousness at that time. He thought the doctors could be wrong. I was devestated at the news, I didn't eat for days and cried all the time. Once he saw how bad she got and how fast she died he changed his tune.

Looking at it BEHAVIORALLY, using the MBer's perspective, my H's ENs were NEGLECTED when I suffered from a MAJOR DEPRESSION after my F's SUDDEN and very UNEXPECTED DEATH...

IT IS WHAT IT IS, THOUGH...

My H chose to handle his neediness by isolating further and further from me, eventually having an affair...It was HIS CHOICE to handle it that way rather than expressing his concerns to me...

It was MY MISTAKE in only thinking about myself..MY LOSS..and forgetting to think about HIM..to PUT HIM FIRST in terms of my priorities...

DEPRESSION is all about THE TAKER...My opinion on this...from my perspective...

It was NOT OK for me to expect HIS LIFE to STOP because I felt mine had stopped.."I'm too depressed to have SF with you; don't you know my F just died???"

I think that's why lots of marriages suffer 'cause of a partner's DEPRESSION..

I'm all for COUPLES COUNSELING..almost always now..rather than INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING...I think, looking back, that would have helped...if I had focused on talking to MY HUSBAND rather than the therapist..I remember my H even telling me that...Oh well...

Ah, when my mom died, I did go through a small bout with depression, but I honestly just let things happen very naturally FOR ME, and grieved when I felt the need and let go and moved on with my life.

I never really lost touch PWC. I never got counseling, just got on with my day to day, took moments out to cry or be angry or grieve, but I never locked that away from PWC. HE also loved my mom very much, so I would talk to him about her, often.

Now, when PWC's birth mother died, that's when the POO hit the fan. He had lived through the death of his mother, his father, his birth mother, his birth father, and NONE of it was natural, due to old age or anything like that. It was ALS, cancer, cirrhosis/kidney failure, a gun shot to the head. That could rain on anybody's parade, but PWC never OUTWARDLY mourned any of it.

That is why I have said that I believe he IS depressed, and IF he is, it is affecting our M.

I think it's a responsible thing to do to seek help when you are depressed.

I often feel that my show of any weakness, be it depression, or physical ailment, causes PWC (now and in the past) to find me UNATTRACTIVE. I even thought this before the A's. I was always so STRONG, physically and mentally before our son was born. After that, I have suffered a lot of back pain, neck pain, muscle spasms.

Now that I'm having problems with my hand and arm, I wonder....

Maybe that seems well off topic. I thought it was an interesting correlation.

I think you are onto something important, SL..



THIS IS TO THE TEE TRUE FOR MY MARRIAGE!!!

And, this is what even our sons have said about me...NOT YOU, MOMMY.."YOU CAN HANDLE ANYTHING...YOU ARE SO STRONG".. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />..That was my facade...they all still have a hard time with my NORMALNESS...

My H LOVES, LOVES, LOVES it that I FOUGHT FOR OUR MARRIAGE..the STRENGTH raring itself back up..HE LOVES, LOVES, LOVES a confident, strong woman..just as long as he can remain THE MAN...hard balancing act..THE STRONG WOMAN BEHIND THE MAN... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

AND the OW was MOST DEFINITELY my H's ANTIDEPRESSANT...How can we compete with THAT DRUG???? That's why he's longing so for her...fits with how hard it is for your H..like my H..to break away..fits with why WITHDRAWAL is lasting sooo long..they want that QUICK FIX..for my H..the A was all about FUN AND GAMES...the OW did ACADEMY AWARD WINNING SHOWS..everyday was a HOLIDAY..which was hard to maintain during PLAN B..he eventually learned, "she is just like any other woman"..DUH... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

LOL! Yeah, just like any other woman, indeed!

I am and have always been able to 'keep it together'. I keep things going, against all odds. Now, I do have frailties, EVERYBODY does, even PWC!

Maybe me, admitting my faults and frailties, makes him uncomfortable, and if I were to hazzard a guess, I would think that he KNOWS that *I* KNOW that he is faulty, TOO. In my eyes, it takes GUTS, STRENGTH and CONFIDENCE to admit your faults, work toward being a better you and not giving one good gol darn what others think (with the disclaimer that it does matter what your spouses think).

With the newest, strange body occurence, I have been very strong, but open about the possiblity of this being a permanent issue that *I* will just deal with as best I can. I'm not one to try to eek sympathy out of others. I will still do my job and still do my best. To me, it's all just another challenge to adapt and overcome.

I knew my H was DEPRESSED for the years of the A..due to a series of losses and letdowns...

He said that she "SAVED HIS LIFE"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

After hearing that CRAP, I wrongly assumed that he spent his time TALKING to her for CONSOLATION...

Actually TALKING is what WE do now..we are TRULY INTIMATE...

What they DID was FUN and GAMES..THEATER...CRAZY, YUCKY, STUFF...She could do that CRAP...during their STOLEN MOMENTS...OH, THE ECSTACY..YUCK!!!

I see it now as A HIGH..for him..just like COCAINE...what an ANTIDEPRESSANT....and she knew EXACTLY what she was DOING...

I know we're not supposed to look way into the future, but I tell you, I can see US there, shaking our heads at the things we've done and said in the NAME OF LOVE. Oy.

Yup, the OW, especially Aimless, was about FUN, and FALLING IN LOVE, in a vacuum, of course. No kids, no BILLS, no house to work on, no dogs to take care of, vet visits, doctor visits, preparing for school, daycare, family stuff, no dishes to HAVE to do, no NOTHIN, just fun fun fun. If I could roll my eyes completely around on that one, I would. I still have some resentment to work through, having been left to attend to everything, but I'll get there. It's mine to deal with.

SL-
How are YOU doing?
How are things between you and the hubby?
Better, I hope.....

HI!!! Just sneaking around on the internet this morning before everyone comes in...I would hate to get in trouble AGAIN!! LMAO...

but I figured I'd drop in on all my friends!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

((((SL))))

Hey Sadmo and Rin!

I'm doing well.

The diet is more like a life change than a DIET now, which is good. I'm leveling off and finding it a bit easier to go without so much JUNK. Lotsa fruit, still working on incorporating more veggies and such. I've dropped about 6 pounds at this point, but I have about 15-20 more to go to my target. For me, portion size was a biggie. Not so much anymore.

Between me and hubby, things are level. No R talk as of late, mostly because of illness being passed throughout the house and all of my doc visits for the back thingy. It's been very busy and hectic, so when we get home, we relax, talk about our days, laugh with our kid and then usually watch some tube in bed together or I read and he watches the tube out in the living room. It's okay for now. No discord.

It feels like we are finally on the same page. I've slowed down and he's picked up a bit. He initiates conversations more, usually about work or music or movies and such things. It's honestly how we used to do things, so it's good that we are STARTING there. If we can keep up with the every so often conversations about the nitty gritty, I think we can build on this and make things better than before. We'll see, it's going to be a long, slow march.

Since I can only control me, and I ALSO want to be happy with PWC again (as he said to me a week ago), I am doing what *I* can to make that happen.

I am reading "The Five Love Languages", just started on Chapter two, so it's early yet. It's the chapter about showing admiration; it screams what PWC wants.

The honest truth is that he will not be leading things right now or for some time to come. It is what it is. My choice is to either choose recovery or not. I've chosen, which means that I'm the navigator right now. What I DO will illicit reactions from him, causing him to counter. If I'm bitter, angry and resentful, he will probably withdraw. If I'm happy and exude that, he will probably be drawn to that. It's the old vinegar/honey thing.

I don't go WAAAAAY out of my way to show him affection or admiration. I show him affection and admiration when they strike me to do. I show admiration for all of the little things that I see now. Some things I don't comment on right away, but I try to remember to say "Thanks for..." at a later time.

It's a work in progress.

Silent:

I wanted to comment on this:

"I don't go WAAAAAY out of my way to show him affection or admiration. I show him affection and admiration when they strike me to do. I show admiration for all of the little things that I see now. Some things I don't comment on right away, but I try to remember to say "Thanks for..." at a later time."

WHY?

If it has to "Strike you" to do so. Then you really are missing some of the MB priciples.

You want to wait until you get something to give it. Bad news.

S/L: "Thank you for saying that, and you really did well on that yesterday!"

Why didn't you just say "Thank You" yesterday?

This is your choice to withhold.

He's making that choice as well, and you can only hope he does something about that eventually.

Why are you choosing to withhold?

Just sticking your foot in the water ain't going to get you swimming.

And if Admiration is his #1 need, your keeping it from him.

And that is your choice.

Sorry about the 2x4.

Take it from me and use it to Write "thank you" on it 1000 times.

LG