Do you ever wonder how you can tell if it is a sincere change and not just a bunch of empty promises?
Here’s what it will look like when it is really time to end Plan B.

#1 – When WS works on their issues ON THEIR OWN—without BS having to beg, plead, or “remind” them to go to counseling or a meeting
#2 – WS will come to BS and ask for forgiveness, taking personal responsibility
#3 – WS’s ACTIONS will show that they have changed by the way they treat BS
#4 – WS will not try to force BS to “believe me, I’ve changed!!”
#5 – WS will show respect for BS’s lack of trust
#6 – WS will build trust slowly and not try to “rush it”
#7 – WS will understand and accept that for a while, it may feel like they have lost some privacy
#8 – WE will drag their own butt to counseling, anger management, church, and/or some form of ACCOUNTABILITY (like a sponsor, etc.)
#9 – WS will not make demands such as, “I need you to…” or “You need to…”
#10 – WS will not be disrespectful/judgmental: “What’s wrong with you for feeling…?” “Why didn’t you…?” “You’re crazy!”
#11 – WS will NO LONGER TRY TO FIX BS!
#12 – WS will as BS what they went through and how it felt
#13 – WS will not argue with BS’s feelings when BS tells WS the truth of how it felt
#14 – WS will sorrow a godly sorrow for what they put the BS through
#15 – WS will not “work toward” working on their issues…or make promises about working on their issues…or “make progress” toward working on their issues. WS will just work on them whether BS chooses to take them back or not.
#16 – WS will willingly admit what they did wrong and will no longer lie to hide the truth
#17 – WS will willingly spend 15 hours a week on their marriage
#18 – WS will willingly learn how to think of their partner and protect their partner ahead of their own “happiness”
#19 – WS with want to know the BS’s ENs and will tell the BS what theirs are
#20 – BS will hear questions like these:
What do you want?
What hurts you about being with me?
How do you feel when I come to the house?
How do you feel after talking with me?
Do you feel like I constantly tell you how you should be?
Do I sound selfish?
Have I shown an interest in your reality, hopes, and dreams?
Are you experiencing trauma from the things I said and did for years?
Can you heal from this trauma?
Could you like a person who has been self-centered and abusive for a long time?

CJ, I love this...great job sweetie! I think that this will go pretty far...

The only thing I'm concerned about is I did have WH ask "What do you want?" That's the only question that I would be worried about...

I think that this is great for everyone here!

FWCJ, that list is the holy grail for BS's.

Hope your 1st Anniversary went well and you are feeling better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It looks like a great list.

But it also seems a bit odd, to be coming from someone who did not have a "Marital plan B success".

techie,
One doesn't have to recover a M to be a success. The fact that CJ can list all of the above, and be DEAD ON the money with it, shows that she learned what she needed from Plan B. Not all marriages are recovered, but our self-esteem and self-worth is; this list shows that CJ KNOWS her worth.

I have to back up SL...

I wanted to say something earlier but wasn't sure of WHAT to say...

You see techie...when you impliment Plan B, after a while you realize that it is a WIN-WIN situation. Either you recover your MARRIAGE on your terms or you recover and thrive INDEPENDENTLY.

FWCJ has been through and witnessed enough to know what is required. She knows crumbs just don't cut it for the BS when they are in Plan B.

Techie,

I can really understand why you would wonder about that, and to be honest, at times that's something I struggle with too. Would I ever want my former life of physically, emotionally, and verbally abused--and serial cheating? No. But what I would have dearly LOVED to see happen is for my WS (who is now my exH) to realize that he did have issues and work on them...in order to save our marriage.

See, techie, I did not want to end my first marriage. Here I am now, happily remarried to a wonderful man, and at times I still mourn for what the divorce did to our kids. But sadly, my WS just REFUSED to see his part in any of it. Oh, he would admit to stuff like, "I guess I wasn't the greatest dad" or "I wasn't always the nicest to you" but he never really understood that idea that faithfulness requires self-discipline. Nor would he or could he ever admit that he had an abuse problem and seek help for it. I would have dearly LOVED to see him going to counseling and working through things, but he hard-heartedly would not go.

Soooo, I followed what I believe is the biblical method. I confronted him about it personally--just between him and me. When he was abusive, I'd call it abuse to his face, and he would just call me names more. When he was cheating with some lady online doing cybersex, I would call it inappropriate sex, and he would tell me to shut up. Next, I confronted him with our spiritual leader (you know...pastor, minister, reverend), and my exH told me I was airing dirty laundry in public and would not seek help. Finally, I spoke to our whole worship group and asked them to all ask him to return to his family. Not only did he not return, he went to his mom's and brother's houses...and they "covered" for him and enabled him to continue.

During this time, we spent some considerable time separated and periodically he would try to "move back home" by making promises and I would TOTALLY fall for it! I wanted to believe so much that he really meant it this time. Then the next time I would be a little more wary--but I still wanted to believe him and I would let him back home way too early. Finally, nearer to the end, he would say to me, "What? Do I have to be PERFECT? What if I've started toward getting help? What if I'm making progress? Doesn't that count?" and I thought, "Man, no one is perfect. I guess that DOES count for something" and I fell for it again. Sure enough...all the "progress" he was making toward getting help quickly withered up and stopped altogether, and yet again I foolishly ended up right back where I began.

That's how I came up with this list. I think it is kind of "ideal" in that no human person could probably really do ALL THAT! But I needed something sort of objective to be able to tell when the WS was sincerely changing and sincerely understood what their affair had done...and when it was just more B.S. and more false recovery. I needed some way of being able to tell what it would really look like if a WS had a complete change of heart and was really ready to end Plan B. And BTW, just so you know, I am literally assuming here that while in Plan B, the BS has looked at their own issues and examined their own part in this marital breakdown, and has already begun addressing their own personal issues through counseling. Thus, I'm sort of assuming that the BS is willing to admit what they did wrong and work on fixing it.

No, I do not think every one of the things on the list will be done all at once. But can you tell by looking at the list the way that the WS would be acting? They would be doing the counseling and whatnot for recovery ON THEIR OWN. They would willingly admit that they were wrong. They would have some idea that what they did hurt the BS HORRIBLY and want to do something to help the BS deal with that. Oh...they might get frustrated with having to lose some privacy for a while...but they'd understand WHY and kind of grin and bear it. See what I mean?

Soooo....I hope that answers your questions. You're right, my first marriage did not end with a "Marital Plan B Success" and trust me when I say I wish it had. It breaks my heart that it didn't, and some days I do wonder what the heck I'm doing claiming to have "successful recovery"...except for one thing. *I* did recover. Sadly, my first spouse did not.

Your faithful friend,


CJ

yeap, that about sums it up for me!

It's always great to read your stuff CJ because I see my own sitch in it every time...being wary, falling for it, hearing I can't be the dream guy that YOU want me to be...

I got that in writing...

I'm an MB success...on the list with you...because had it not been for what I learned here I might still be in my hole! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Rin, we are all so glad you stayed here and you are doing the do. Like I said, you will be a success.

:bowing on my knees:

Thank you OH Great ONE! LMAO

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I like it !

I didnt make any comments about whether CJ "is a success" or not.

I made a comment, specifically about the subject of her post.
Which was about, [How do you know when it is time to come out of plan B, and safely **accept your spouse back**?] Or, to directly quote:
"how you can tell if it is a sincere change and not just a bunch of empty promises? "

My comment, is that, while I think her list sounds great, and makes sense... it would sound better, coming from someone "who has come out of plan B, and safely accepted their spouse back, with positive results".

CJ is not such a person. In fact, she did just the opposite. I make no comments on whether or not that was the right thing to do for her, and her marriage. I am saying, that when someone is looking for a list on, "How can I trust my spouse again?" it usually gives them a better feeling of confidence, when the answers are coming from someone who has actually accepted their spouse back, and did well by it.

CJ has learned some valuable lessons from her experience. She has learned, or made the choice of, "when NOT to accept your spouse back".
But that is not equivalent to "when TO accept your spouse back".

So anyways, to recap:
It sounds like a great list to me, at a "theoretical" level.
It would be nice to hear more comments on it, by folks that have successful marriage reconciliation experience at a practical/personal level, too.

As a testimony to how great your list is, my H has done the majority of these..It's taken over 3 years but MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...

I think these indicate REAL RECOVERY...

PLAN B, IMO, can stop when the WS ENDS THE R with the OP FOR LIFE....AND... is AGREEABLE to taking EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS TO INSURE NO CONTACT...those were my primary criteria as recommended by Steve Harley...

the rest comes later..in spurts..

I don't really see the list that CJ made as impractical. Maybe I'm confused at the point you're trying to make. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bump for anyone who needs it...

Bump for ForeverInLove...