|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,179
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,179 |
People that post here and state the want to save their marriages get what little advice I have to offer to do so. That does not mean that I agree with their decision, but it MUST be their decision. And really often people in what I feel to be lost marriages MUST come to this on their own and usually are "happier" if that is a good word for this because they KNOW they gave it their all. And then they did what you did and I would have probably recommended and moved on to hopefully a much more successful relationship.
Lemonman, I view this place sort of like medicine. It is not a science it is an art. People come to doctors with very serious illnesses, cancer for example, and in many cases the Doc KNOWS that the odds are very low. The Doc does not recommend suicide. The Doc does not recommend giving up. The Doc often offers courses of treatment that MIGHT cure the patient, but often leaves it up to the patient to make the decision to go for it or not.
This site is very much like this. If one is posting on a Marriagebuilders site and someone comes here asking for advice on saving their marrigae, we offer what we know. Is anything set in stone? Nope! Are their any guarentees? Nope.
Will some keep trying and trying, when others of us might have pack it in?? Yup. Will some give up without much effort or fight? Yup. It is their call.
I always follow this dictum which I made up to deal with extended family issues. "No one runs their life like I would run it for them." I quote this because it SOOO WELL STATES A POINT that I have tried to express to you LM. I understand well IF you do not want to open up a DISCUSSION with me BUT... I want to stress my STRONG BELIEF in FREE WILL and how I consider it to be DISRESPECTFUL to assume that folks should look at the world and others the way that I do... And I feel that I have the right to be RESPECTED for what I believe in and who I am...a PERSON who can BEAR more than many others..and on and on...IT'S ME... ME... THAT I HAVE GROWN TO LOVE MORE AND MORE SINCE COMING TO THIS SITE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Mimi: I am well aware of the strong differecnes in opinion you and I have had in the past and fully respect your right and opinion to disagree with me. I think you take people's opinions that are contrary to anything directly interpreted by you as "marriage building support" as a personal attack. I am being as honest as I can with you here. I am NOT talking to you in veiled language. I don't feel the need to disagree with you personally on a post. You feel the way you do, I feel the way I do....we can leave it at that. I think you take things personally when THEY have nothing to do with you...just my opinion LM
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,179
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,179 |
the quote above is exactly how i feel
i would never go to a doctor who tells me there is no hope
because that doctor then doesn't believe that anything is possible
that doctor will not be open to possibilities
that doctor has closed his mind and sees only one possible outcome
that doctor might as well say "give up now and save yourself from suffering"
if it were HIS life, he would have the CHOICE to give up hope
but IT'S MY LIFE, I MAKE THAT CHOICE
anyone who doesn't believe in possibilties, can't help to make them reality
i come here because i want to save my marriage and i believe that the harley's plans are the best possible chance of that
how do you think it feels to have someone HERE say to me
"frankly i don't see your husband coming back."
"i don't think your marraige is going to be saved."
"i believe there's hope and then there's false hope"
"i think you're afraid to let go"
"i think there must be something more going on than just wanting to save your marraige"
i can hear that from my friends and families who have never been through this, who don't know anything about the harley's plans or beliefs about affairs
he!!......i hear those words in my nightmares
but IT IS MY CHOICE to continue to try to save my marraige
IT IS MY CHOICE to believe that it's still possible
and i have the support of Jennifer harley that i have a reason to continue to hope it can happen
so why do others here feel it is in anyway helpful to say otherwise to me?
and honestly, WHY would they?
if they think it's in anyway supportive, it's not
if they think it's in anyway helpful, it's not
if they think that they in some way know more than the experts
well......then why don't they start thier own site based on something other than the harley's beliefs
because i come here to get support for saving my marraige based upon those plans which i am using exactly as Jennifer and SAA have recommended
anyone who WANTS suppport in saving their marriage will get just that from me
support and advice on HOW TO SAVE THIER MARRAIGE
if i can't support them, i will leave it to those who can
doesn't matter if they are serial cheaters or not
what matters is that the person has made a CHOICE about what they want and until THEY choose otherwise, that's what i will support Eav: Don't know if you will read this (and truth be told, don't really care)...but I can 100% assure you that your situation was no where in my mind when I created this post. It has nothing to do with YOU (been there done that)....personally I think it is great that you get Dr Harley's support for contiuing to hope for you marriage.......you buy what you need. This topic is/was NOT intneded for your eyes. LM
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310 |
Gee Whiz... I'll just say that I DID NOT FEEL PERSONALLY ATTACKED AND DID NOT THINK YOU WERE TALKING TO ME... I was just giving my opinion about thoughts on your thread...and I just LOVED, LOVED, LOVED JL's POST... WHATEVER... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by mimi_here; 04/29/07 09:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525 |
I think actually that you DO buy what you need from the harleys or any coach...let me tell you why.
You call them...pay them...to give you what you WANT...and they work to help you get to that end.
So for example...if you said I want to negotiate my WS coming home..they would help you do that. They wouldn't fight for your dignity...or require remorse...or anything OTHER than what you asked for...which was to negotiate the terms under which they'd be willing to come back.
I have seen this happen more than once.
So then they are home under the terms as stated and the BS starts to feel dissatisfied...hey why no remorse or protection of my dignity?! ...they ask.
The short answer? That isn't what you stated the objective was.
So if you want support and to create every possible opportunity for the WS to return...well that's what you asked for and paid for...it should be what you get.
You have to be honest with yourself about what you want in order to ask the right questions and pay for the help you need.
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138 |
Post deleted by XXXXXXXXXX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525 |
That isn't what I said eav..try to hear it without your defensive "everyone thinks my marriage is over" filter.
I said you ask them to coach you toward YOUR goal not what THEY think is your best option [because that's completely subjective and they are in no way qualified to determine that...you are paying for their coaching expertise not their personal opinion.
After all SH himself says he would divorce his wife in the event of an affair, nevertheless he will do his best to help you if you want to try.
You H has been gone 3 years.
LS's H has been in his A 3 yrs as well.
Very different tonality.
A lot of what people are basing their opinions on is your attitude and actions.
You tend to post as though your marriage WAS over but you haven't come to grips with it yet...that is the overall tone of your posts [what copmes to mind when ~I~ read them anyway] and it affects the feedback you get.
It sounds like that is the message you are getting at home as well.
I'm sure some of that attitude has to do with the input you are receiving...but I wonder does any of it have to do with the attitude you are sending out?
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310 |
I think actually that you DO buy what you need from the harleys or any coach...let me tell you why. The HARLEYS are not just ANY COACH...they have their own UNIQUE STYLES... You call them...pay them...to give you what you WANT...and they work to help you get to that end. I agree with this statement. So for example...if you said I want to negotiate my WS coming home..they would help you do that. They wouldn't fight for your dignity...or require remorse...or anything OTHER than what you asked for...which was to negotiate the terms under which they'd be willing to come back. In MY EXPERIENCE, this statement, though, is PLAIN WRONG. It implies that the Harleys are UNCARING and INSENSITIVE to one's EMOTIONAL NEEDS. Steve Harley is absolutely one of the most caring and sensitive people that I have ever met and I don't think would ever DISREGARD A PERSON'S DIGNITY... And for my H he definitely, specifically recommended for me to look for SURE SIGNS OF REMORSE!!! Eav..can speak for herself..but having followed her situation closely, she has asked very specific and appropriate questions..not just asking for what she wanted... To me, that's a HORRIBLE ASSUMPTION to make..in fact, erroneous assumptions are being made about the Harley coaching methods in general. .
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,525 |
Well your experience is first hand and mine third so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt RE harley uniqueness.
I have certainly observed and listened to that very prob described with others who are recovering [that remorse was not part of the deal..just negotiation for the end of the A] and that was the crux of the resentment issue. They were asked what the goal was..they said the goal was end the affair and get them home...yet no remorse was required and none given. Then they were resentfull..had to come to grips with the fact that their expectations were not in alignment with their stated goals.
Eav,
I haven't told you before that I thought it was a done deal and I'm not telling you that now...as a matter of fact I believe I told you that I would supprt your decision to wait 90 years if that's what you wanted to do.
My point is that you hire a coach to COACH you to your goal..not to extend that goal to where THEY would like to direct you or would choose themselves.
That would be a bad coach with serious control issues.
If you hired someone to help you lose weight that's what they are paid for...not to encourage you to do something else.
I think if you asked to be coached to pursue every possibility you will get a different answer than if you asked to be coached for resolution within X amount of time or within Y parameters.
You are in fact willing to go to the ends of the earth and that is what you communicate to your coach...that is how you will be coached and they will support you doing that.
So you are getting the support you paid for.
Where is the disagreement?
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464 |
Eav - on what basis, given your H isn't in counselling your WH, does Jennifer make the statement? I know all affairs do eventually end (except when they don't) but why is Jennifer so adamant in your situation? You have had NC with WH for how long? His mistress is now divorced..... I am just asking OK?
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
701
guests, and
52
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
