FIL,

I'm not trying to be a downer, but my exH ALSO said that "I want to change. I won't be overnight but do I have to be perfect before you take me back? Doesn't the EFFORT count?" and I thought he kinda had a point. No one is perfect, after all! So I took him back...fell for it again...and he promptly went right back to his old, abusive pattern within just a few days -AND- now he was entrenched at home!

No, your WH does not need to be "perfect." No, it will not be overnight. But yes...before you break that Plan B and even consider reconciling with him, I STRONGLY suggest that you see some longer term, consistent changes in him...like 3 to 6 months of ne abusive outbursts!!

Your faithful friend,


CJ

Thank him for his 'honesty'. Let him know that you want to believe all he says but getting the trust back is difficult. Ask how does he think he can help in that area.

Strange as it seems if you ask, he may help. His helping is part of his healing process. The amount of help he puts forward will prove to you his sincerity.

Do NOT be quick to drop your defenses. When you see his anger rise, step back.

Don't do all for him. He needs and really wants the right to prove himself. It won't be at your pace it w/b at his and he can communicate that to you.

There are some boundaries to be set and you best keep them on a short list. WS' can't handle long lists. More can be added later.

Let me know when we can talk.

L.

He wasn't asking that I take him back, as in we move back in together. I'm not sure if he was even asking for me to stop the divorce next month. It seemed as if he was asking for me to grant him the opportunity to prove himself to me. He said he wouldn't promise he could be a wonderful H in a month or two because he thought that realistically, it would take longer than that. He was mainly asking for my forgiveness for a lot of things, while saying he understood it would take some time for me to grant that.

That being said, what are some boundaries that I should enforce? Whats a good short list?

Lastly, I had a pretty good day that was only minimally disrupted by his attempts at contact. Got through last final at school..Yay! Then splurged and took the kids to the drive in. It was a nice break.

Orchid: That is the WS' of asking to come back. That indirect non-committal down right irritating way of them asking so they can have an out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> They think they are being honest and fair. In the fog, everything looks right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Asking your forgiveness is in reality harder than him coming home. He probably doesn't think so but it is. Of course a couple of months isn't enough time but notice how he pounced on that vs telling you that while it make take a while, giving you reassurance that he is determined to earn your trust back. See the difference? He is still foggy. Giving you better options but still foggy.


Orchid: The boundaries will vary for each person. For as long of a list as I had, I realized that knowing myself meant I settle on the boundaries that really irked me. It ended up being 1 main boundary: The OW must be OUT of MY LIFE. Even if that meant losing the WS.... in reality it was no big deal to lose a WS. They are a liability anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> So losing a WS wasn't as scary as I had feared.

So look deep into yourself. Figure out what you absolutely will NOT tolerate in your M. The basics as NC and no adultery, RH and POJA is a given. Go to the next level.


Orchid: Congratulations on making it through your last exam. Glad you and the children had fun tonight. What movie did you see? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

The next level of what I cannot live with or without? I think that I cannot live without him meeting at least the bare minimum of my EN's. At least some affection and before too long, some SF.

So to recap, NO innappropriate relationships with any other women, no abuse, RH, POJA, and some reciprocal caring. (I am NOT in plan A anymore!) OK.. got the short list. Thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and we saw Blades of Glory. Kinda retarded but the kids liked it. I think more than anything, they like sitting outside on the blanket, ya know? Besides, it's WAY cheaper than the regular theatre cuz you only pay for the adults at the drive in!

Making your bare minimum should not be where you start. If you aim low, the WS will aim lower.

Set your sites higher. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

My main boundary was the same as Orchid's; absolutely no OW, in no way, no how, completely wiped out of our lives, especially his. Then we could talk.

When your H shows up, you know it's him. You don't doubt it. Believe me when I say that the last false recovery, I doubted who I was dealing with after the first week.

If your WH is not willing to do all of the heavy lifting initially, he's probably still foggy.

So I called last night and we talked some. He seems very sincere. I think it is H. But as SL said, it took her a week to see it was still WH on the false recovery. I am just going to see how much work he puts into it before I get my hopes up. Like does he call to let me know when he scheduled the MC appt, or is it up to me to do, and then remind him and bug him to actually go, like before? Cuz that ain't happening anymore! I'm also going to practice 180 behavior. Not calling him unless necessary, letting him chase me ect. We'll see what happens..

No reminding, no bugging, if he's sincere, he WILL DO IT!

That will be the way that you know if it's DH or WH...

I think you have your head screwed on straight and you sound like you have a plan...

Good for YOU! Guard yourself with care...false recoveries IMO are worse than the intial discovery...

Keep up the great work! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you!!! That pat on the back felt soooooo good!

Is your husband going to individual counseling? I suggest that you don't take him back right away, if that is what you are planning. He needs to prove by actions (not words), over a long period of time that he will not be abusive toward you.

Can you make it financially on your own if you do get divorced?

Yes, my H has been in IC for a year. He was making some really great progress last fall but then got into an EA with the female counselor! So there has been NC with her since February and he has been going to a male counselor since March. He is continuing with this, and wants to continue with our MC. (we've only went about 3 times so far) I agree that he needs to prove with his actions that he has gained control over his abusive tendancies, as well as his anger issues.

Yes, I can make it financially if we divorce. We've been apart for over a year now and we have separate houses. (granted that his is a nice big one with a yard and mine is tiny, but still decent) He makes very good money and the courts awarded me what he thinks is a huge amount of CS and alimony. In reality it is barely enough to make it, but I can. I was working partime, but found out I was really just shooting myself in the foot. Because what little I made only offset the amount of CS he would have to pay. So with encouragement from my IC, I quit my job and started college full time. Basically, let him support us, and then after a few years I will have a good job for ME. The judge was very supportive of this plan. Because otherwise, I will be a 45 yo single woman, with no marketable skills, no H, and no children. (who are my life and my way of survival at this point!) As I said before, WH was furious about this.. but OH WELL..

Who is Janet? I'm getting confused.

Janet was his IC. She was awesome for the first six months or so, until their sessions started to become midnight phone sessions, and going out for drinks or coffee. When he said she was his best friend and she offered to babysit, that was when I freaked!

Corrupted IC? Hm.... That sure didn't help.

How are you doing today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Ok so today was interesting. H (WH maybe) was very nice today. We went out to lunch and then had a nice chat about a lot of various non-important issues, but still nice. When the conversation came around to the R, he backtracked a lot. Said he needs time. Not ready for MC yet. Thinks we should just each continue with our IC for now. Just start with being friends and rebuilding trust. I started to get upset with all this and he said "look, this is what I can offer you right now.. I need time" I said that's not an offer, that's asking me for something. He said well then i guess I have nothing to offer. He said it in a regretful type of voice. I almost lost it with him, and let him drag me back on the rollercoaster... but didn't. I said well, this is what I have to offer you.. My whole heart, my devotion, my friendship, and on and on. He looked slightly stunned.. maybe cuz I didn't tear into him... or who knows? I just kept thinking of bugsmom who would say things like "can't we just leave the R stuff alone tonight and enjoy each other's company?" and also whoever it was who said, "believe nothing he says and less than 5% of his actions". So I think maybe he was doing this to test me, to see if I'd freak out and go back on my word about no longer acting abusively towards him. (ie.. pretty much no more name calling when he was acting like a jerk) Because I was getting to the point where had this happened I would have started crying and then yelling about what an a-h*le he was, getting my hopes all up and then backing out like that. I'm not proud of the way I've acted, too many times, and that's what I told him. That that is NOT the person I want to be, whether we are together or not. So anyways, the evening ended nicely. We went out for ice cream and then back to his house, where baby fell asleep on the bed between us, and we had a nice cozy conversation about old times. His foot brushed mine several times, and I put my hand on his arm once, without him pulling away like usually had been the case. Most comforting and enjoyable was the good eye contact. It has been a long time since he could look me in the eyes. But I remembered the 180's and instead of hoping or pushing for more, I made sure to leave early, sounding chipper, and said see you tomorrow night then?

So how did I do??? And what is your take on his weirdo turnaround??? And do I go more with the actions that seemed like he was truly pulling closer to me, than to listen to his words that said it'll be awhile before he can promise any kind of a husband/wife relationship. Or is he just fence sitting.. enjoying time with me without a committment? I dont' see any evidence of him breaking NC with OW. Can they fence sit without OW? Just in taking their sweet time in wanting to committ to the M, but not wanting to let go? As you can tell, I really have no idea how to read him in any of this... HELP!!!

He is trying to stay on that fence and you are not letting him straddle on your side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That's good.

The fact that he claims he isn't ready, tells you, that you shouldn't let him back as is.

You are smart NOT to go on the roller coaster. His shocked reaction when you didn't LB him was classic. See how he was expecting you to react. When you didn't, it threw the WS off. Any sane person w/b happy, instead the WS in him was confused. See the difference?

For now, make no promises to him and you won't be hurt as much. However, it will lower your tolerance level and in time, these types of interactions will irritate you.

Please read the link in my sig line about the stages of grieving. So you know where you are and where you may be headed.

If and when your H is ready to talk, he can call mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Thank you orchid for your reply. I was laying awake thinking about this and then came on here and saw you had posted.. how nice to have someone who cares. I do need to call.. I think sometimes I just kind of hole up here and am afraid to open up.

I think that I'm almost to the point of acceptance in grieving. I've spent a LOT of time in anger and some in bargaining and the others, but now it's more acceptance, and a feeling of either, lets start making some progress in our marriage or lets just forget it. So that's still some bargaining, huh?

Don't worry, I'm not taking him back yet. He promised the world just days ago, and today was backtracking so fast it made my head spin. Sigh...

So now I'm confused about how to act. Just keep acting upbeat, like I'm moving on with my life? I know it's pointless to remind him of the promises he made to me just a few days ago. I keep telling myself that what he does is out of my control. All I control is me. For my marriage to have any chance, I need to show him that I am the better option. (even if the OW is out of the picture, I feel as if I'm still competing against the "single life" he's been living with his retarded 23 yo friends. Grrr.... more angry today.

[color:"red"]freakin' genius ! [/color]