Going outside of a marriage for sex may, in the end have less to do with sex than than the quality of the spouse's emotional relationship.

It may seem obvious to some of us that when we feel angry or hurt that we might lose interest in sex or actively withhold it. And resentment and bitterness can certainly create a loss of passion.

The real issue is not the lack of sex or the difference in libidos or whatever--but the inability of the couple to resolve the emotional issues circumventing the withholding of sex--the capacity of the couple to solve the problem as a team rather than blaming the other.

People who stray are often shocked to discover (usually after alot of therapy) how much they have actually avoided acknowledging these feelings and working on the emotional disatisfaction that lead to the straying.

Jeeze, I hate to say this. We (the guys) talk about this at work a lot. Just suffice to say that men are real funny about sex. I will admit that emotional problems weigh into a man wanting to stray, but sometimes it is simpler than that. Sometimes a guy is just plain , well, you know. HORRIBLE thing to say, but men are like that.

The smart man will like women, especially his wife. The smart man will want to be with his wife more than anyone, but if his wife is not available, he will eventually take whoever bats goo-goo eyes at him. Some men can resist, some can't. Men stray a lot more than what is reported in polls. In this marriage, I have not. Honest. Have I thought about it? Yep. Am I glad I didn't? Oh, yeah. As horrible as it is to say, when my spouse was more passionate, I didn't even think about straying. When she was not, after so long you start to look around a bit. Its when you touch that the trouble comes.

I know. I make men sound like puppies humping legs. There is some truth to that. Some men are just pigs, at least when it comes to sex. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. To deny it is fighting hundreds of thousands of years of male evolution. (Thats an oxymoron if there ever was one. Kind of like a Senate Intelligence Committee)

Just Learning seems to have really hit close to home. I bet there is some experience in there somewhere.

Hang in there! We are pulling for you.

I completey get what you guys are saying, but a lot of time, or at least in my case, withholding SF isn't about punishment. It's about just not wanting it. I get very little if any emotional intimacy from my H. I need emotional intimacy/connection to want SF with my H. So right now in my marriage, I have no desire for it.

It isn't any form of punishment. There is just no desire for it.

I have tried to talk with my H about this. I have been very proactive. He isn't interested.

I think what gets my feathers in a ruffle about this and some of the comments made here, is the focus on the W not meeting her H's physical needs, therefore he goes looking some where else. Where is the acknowledgement that the H isn't meeting the W's emotional needs, therefore she has no desire for SF.

"but if his wife is not available, he will eventually take whoever bats goo-goo eyes at him."

Quotes like this, sorry don't mean to pick on you, have a "just put out" tone about it. If the wife would just put out, everybody would be happy.

I just firmly believe, in my case anyway, that lack of SF in a marriage isn't just because the wife doesn't make herself available. Sometimes, sometimes, the H can blame himself for lack of physical intimacy because he isn't avaible to his W for the emotional intimacy she needs, something many if not most women need to want/desire physical intimacy.

Rubydoo,

I think you are misunderstanding something. I and others are saying the things we are to Married because she is here, and this is the part that SHE can work on. If her H showed up, he would get a long list of things for him to work on, including NOT 'begging' for sex.

You state you need an emotional connection to your H and this is very common for women. Yet, you also indicate that somehow HE is the one that has to make that connection, when in reality you both do. And if you need the emotional connection much more, then you have to make the connection.

Please remember that Harley listes sexual fulfillment as an EMOTIONAL need for a reason. It is one of the primary ways men connect emotionally. Which is why a male should not take his bat and ball and go play elsewhere, if the W cuts him off. Perhaps he should divorce her though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You may feel that taking SF off of the table of marriage is not punishment, but I'll bet you good money your H does.

You are correct in saying that she is not the one at fault. However, Pieta really nailed it. The fact that she made him "beg" her own words says alot about how she viewed her marriage and her spouse. It suggests some other very deep issues in the marriage, and clearly a lack of respect. The fact that the topic was sex is somewhat irrelavent, except that she happened to choose a high need area of his.

Fact of the matter is that studies show that men have sexual thoughts about every 10 seconds. Think about that, can you imagine it? Sex drive is KNOWN to be hormonal as well. To some extent what drives people with high sex drives is beyond their control, with regard to the drive. Telling them to take a cold shower is not solving the problem, nor is telling them you have no desire.

I am not saying that you should just become your H's sex slave, I am saying that it is a more important issue than many think, and usually that many is female. Although in the years that I have been here, a surprising (to me at least) number of women have come to this site complaining that their H's don't have a high enough drive, hence they have sought other companions. So this is NOT just a male issue.

Just some thoughts. I wonder if Married will return, what do you think?

God Bless,

JL

I didn't mean to say that if the wife would just put out, everyone would be happy. I did go to great lengths to say that men are pigs and are like puppies humping legs, even though we know we are not supposed to be like that. NO, all the problems are not solved my merely having the female "put out". I wish it were that easy.

At least for me personally, merely having the wife "put out" would not be the solution for sex problems. I would much prefer her to enjoy it on at least some level. I won't go into gory details, but men talk about this, too. If the wife doesn't get into sex on some level, we refer to it as "sympathy sex" or a "mercy &^%!". It is absolutely horrible for me to write this, but just know that it is out there.

To Ruby and anyone else, please don't take this as justification for men screwing around. I know that there is a lot of pain involved in affairs, and there is no justification for that kind of pain. I'm just giving you an insight into the male mind, as ugly as it may be. By gaining insight into the male mind, then maybe problems can be put in context and worked on BEFORE an affair happens.Personally, I am VERY happy with the conclusions that our sad poster has made.

Well, I feel I have a humble and meager experience to offer. I've been married for 7 years. The story of Married is very similar to my marriage. For the first year we lived together and the next 7 years. We had virtually no sex life. I sacraficed my needs for the sake of the relationship. Hoping that she would someday change. There was some mercy and sympathy stuff in there or at least that's how I felt about it at times, but I could probably count on my hands and toes, how many times we had sex in 7 years. She was very similar to Married, absolutely no drive no libido whatsoever even if I did go to great lengths to meet her needs. We are just starting to work out the complex and intricate issues tied to this. And until about 6 months or a year ago, she didn't think sex was anything important. After all is just all about having a baby and that's all we need it for.

However, sex or no sex is no reason or justification to cheat on a relationship or have an A. I can't say what I would have done if the opportunity presented itself to me in the last 6 years. But, I held to my code of honor and moral codes with all my strength until I broke down and finally said, either this relationship is changing or I'm done. I was surprised to hear from her that she really didn't think anything was wrong with the relationship until I said something.

As a man with a very high sex drive, I couldn't believe that. I felt so rejected and so unimportant to my W for 7 years and she didn't think anything was wrong at all! Which made me in some ways, feel worse, because how could she possibily think there's not something wrong. Things have been improving in the last few months. Now that we understand each other and are voicing ourselves better to each other. We're working at getting better, I've been rejected and lost for so long that it's hard to open up now. But now that she's understanding our relationship better, this is something I need to work through too.

I just want to express what others have said here. Sex is possibly one of the most important needs to men. If a woman rejects that need, it would be the same as a man rejecting the need of emotional affection or romantic courtship a woman needs. It'd be the same as saying, who needs romance, you certainly don't. The woman would most likely feel unimportant, hurt, and well unimportant to the man saying that to her. So by saying no to sex the same exact thing is happening.

OK guys...I'm back and just as confused (well, not quite). WH and I shared a bottle of wine and his defensive walls just came tumbling down...He never could hold his liquor. It speaks the truth.

I took the advice on this forum and had him contact OW#2 and man oh man, was she wiley!

He cried more after I hung up and pleaded with me to stop the investigation. He continued to say that there had been one other OW#3 six months ago, but she grew weary of waiting for her turn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

We spent the night drinking wine and I was feeling vindicated and powerful...until the wine took its effects on him. He revealed:

1. The younger woman was good

2 He gave OW#1 a gold necklace, because he wanted to "show off."

3. He admitted that he called her "baby." That was MY pet name for over 30 years.

5. He said repeatedly, "It was sex. Just sex. I expect her to just move on. The other woman OW#2 doesn't care about me...She likes her life....I keep telling you, BABY [b]BABY , it was just sex."

6. After I questioned if he'd be able to leave the sweet young thing alone (OW#2), and expressed my understanding of how hard it would be, he said, "Are you trying to sell her?"

7. He said he became angry and told himself, "Look at her...She's got all of that and won't give any of it to me, so I'm going to get some for myself."

So, the night ended with me writing a true "love buster" note and I ripped off my "freakin' dress" as the night ended with him snoring.

His truthful and wine induced comments cut me to the quick. JL and my fellow boardsters, my WH has never, ever talked to me in this manner. Other things were said as well, but the ones above curled my eyelashes.

I did not need to hear...I should never have pressed. The cougar called him at his office and said, "What were you two doing? Were you having testimonials and a 'Come to Jesus Minute?"

She further said, "Don't worry, I won't call or bother you."

No further contact from OW#1, as she should have rec'd. her NC letter today.

I really need to buy the entire book for this site, as the LB are coming out of my pores. Reprobateman and JL, I had not one clue about the sex thing....I am so intimidated and fearful.

No, I know he must keep the appt. for IC on Thurs....No, I don't think instant sex will repair this...Yes, I am praying fervently.....But I can't stop the voices in my head. I really want to slap him silly....then I want to love him with all my heart.

He has expressed remorse and it is very, very genuine. No, I know I didn't meet this need....But couldn't SOMETHING else have been done?

I feel so destroyed and humiliated. Yes, it was very much like being in a bakery without being able to sample....I was so foolish and naive. I love this man with all my heart and though he has broken our vows, I believe he loves me as has been repeatedly said.

But....I just don't know how to keep sane. The days are murder...the nights are a little better because we have reinstituted cuddling. I need to stop the LB comments, because I can see him take a deep breath each time.

SEX. My God. I swear...I just NEVER in a million years recognized the impact....He was ALWAYS hot...I used to be just as hot....******, that was well over 20 years ago and I thought he needed it less.

Lovelost65, You sound so much like the woman my WH would probably wish I had been! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> He takes every vitamin known to man too.

I do know what I like, but it will have to wait, the "Full Monty" must wait until the STD check this week-end. I know what has been said here and I do so pray you are right, JL. I just feel inadequate when I compare...Won't he compare...This one thought has been making me as insecure as I have EVER felt in my entire adult life!

The impact and the knowledge has been overwhelming...I continue to try Plan A and I pray.

Oh Married,

This is tough stuff, but you don't see it like those of us here do. I see a lot of promise and I think you will be just fine. However, it will take time and alot of recovery will hurt.

Let's start with the sex thing and move on from there. First, you can and will compare because you do love him. Second, the big love buster was not the frequency but the fact that he had to beg.
Third, intimacy will occur in its time and the time is not right now. So calm down OK?

Now for the things he said. He called the young one by your nick name. You may think that bad, but I think it is good. Here is why. Pardon this round about approach. Consider porn. Most women don't care for it. Most men are attracted even if they stay away. What attracts most men? It seems to be the images, but it is not the images one sees on paper. It often is the image that they (the men) are desired by a woman willing to put herself out there. It is a fantasy and more often than not the men are not comparing their spouse to them, but if push came to shove they might wish their spouse was a bit more adventurous. So where is this going. If he is calling her by YOUR nick name, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> then it is likely this was alot like a porn fantasy and you were part of it in a strange way. Suggests he is still connected to you. Now you could be insulted by this, but I think it shows the connection you need to rebuild this marriage.

The #2 woman, seems a bit like a predator, but meets the fantasy that he is desired. Again, the fantasy is now gone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now enough about sex. Let's get down to issues of rebuilding this marriage. Have you read the articles on this site? If not do so. I would also recommend Harley's book Surviving an Affair. There are patterns to this and as you become aware of them you will better understand the dynamics of his affair, and of the recovery process.

You are hurt, you are mad, and you are feeling awfully betrayed, right? Well, you should be feeling these things right now, so you are perfectly normal. He is feeling very ashamed, perhaps a bit angry that the fantasy is gone, and probably a bit lost. He definitely will feel guilt.

Now right now the guilt is sort of good, but eventually his guilt if it is not changed to remorse, and then acceptance of his failures, will cause problems for recovery. You don't want a "pet" for a husband, you don't want a scounderal for one either. You want a man sharing your life and you sharing his right?

So the idea in the next few weeks is for you to get through some of the pain, and then to start to work on a plan. Your H may have withdrawal from these affairs. He may not. But gradually he is going to need a way to work his way back into this marriage and your life. You will need to provide him this path. And oddly, the path does not include hoops for him to jump over, but boundaries and guidelines for the both of you.

You have heard the saying "the best revenge is a life well lived." Well, if you have a bit of ????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> in you, then your best revenge is to love him and have him fall madly in love with your again. Trust me you won't have to punish him at all he will do more than enough.

So calm down, face your feelings, educate yourself, and realize you can and will work your way through this and YES, your H will help you once he gets his head in the light again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You are doing well, you are where you should be this early, it will get better, there are things to work on and overcome. You both need to heal, and it will come as a surprise to you, but your H may well need to heal more than you. He has done a lot of damage to himself, and his self-image.

Relax, read, learn, and then plan. I know it sounds ODD, I know it sounds counter intuitive, but it does work. Oh, and if you know of a good pro-marriage counselor seek him/her out and you and your H go.

Must go, but I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

In vino, veritas. If you don't know what that means, your homework assignment is to look it up.

You said you feel intimidated and fearful. Intimidation and fear comes from lack of knowledge and understanding, as well as the unknown. I've given you some insight into the abyss that is the male mind. JustLearning has not given you merely some insight, but the encyclopedia britannica. Whenever I read JustLearning's posts, I find that even if I try, I can't truly disagree with anything he says. Thus, please let your feelings of fear and intimidation melt away. You are now armed with knowledge, and you seem to have the will to use that weapon for your benefit.

I am more and more impressed with the obvious amount of time that JustLearning has taken to respond to you and think things through. If he was around, I would buy him a beer!

I can only get a limited feel for what is going on in your life through the written word. However, I am getting some good vibes about the future of your relationship. Why?

1. Your husband has royally screwed up using the ancient method known as "screwing around". He knows it, and feels bad about it. He hasn't run off for the greener grass, but is still hanging around. He seems to still love you.

2. While you are very understandably hurt and pissed, you haven't run off, and there seems to be no mention of any greener grass that you want to graze in. You still love him.

3. As to WHY he roamed around where he shouldn't have been roaming, you seem to know the reasons why. While you can't control what he does with his p*&^s, you have decided to take control of the normal excuses that men give when they decide to let their wagger get in the wind instead of in their pants.

4. Therefore, I see 2 things left:
-----A. Keep up the good work in discovering what was lovebusting behavior on your part, and don't do it anymore.
-----B. Here comes the hard part. Your husband has to wise up, modify his behavior and treat you nice, and stop putting things where they don't belong, and not give YOU a reason to lovebust.

5. I am so used to law school outlining that I need this 5th point because odd numbers seem to look better when you are outlining them. Therefore, this 5th bullet has no use but to waste bandwidth and your time. I will close by saying that Smithwick's beer is OK out of the bottle, but is much better on tap, however is more expensive.

Seriously. Keep it up! Make sure to let us know the latest. Listen to JustLearning, who has obviously stopped merely just learning and has graduated to teaching. He has switched from girlie drinks to single-malt cask strength scotch, WITHOUT the ice. A man's man.

I want to begin by thanking my fellow mb tutors. I could not be sitting in this house without the knowledge I have gained here.

Today was such a hard day...Rubydoo, you and pieta were so right, as my enthusiasm waned today. I made a very important discovery due to your posts regarding my own EN. I swear to you all here, that I didn't think I had needs that weren't being met....Sigh. I thought I was fine in that department, but of course, I'm not.

Reprobatemind, ahopefulone and of course, Justlearning, you have helped me so much. Just a tiny peek into the adult male's mind....Who knew you guys thought like that!!??? I don't have a brother, male cousin, etc. You guys were just such a mystery to me! I appreciate the outlines and homework, RM. Teachers like that stuff! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Justlearning, you are such a gift...A man's man gift!

What makes everyone here soooo smart? So knowing? I feel totally stupid. Of course I have unmet EN! Has my WH met them? Well, no. Did I meet his? We know that I didn't. Such a very simple, yet complex concept! I never knew. I keep saying it, because it is so true.

My WH does not seem unduly upset. He must be, but he is very adept at keeping it all under the radar. He does not have his cellphone and I keep worrying about what will happen when he must get another. Those visions of the text messages keep swirling around in my head.

He talked to OW#1 for 30 to 40 min. at a time. The total number of min. for me was 3 min. My calls amounted to , "Shall I pick up bread?" This man doesn't open up easily about feelings. Dear God...He kissed me good-bye and said he loved me. I wasn't out of the house 10 min. before he called her. I have NEVER gotten a morning loving call...never. I am angry. I am angry. I feel like I could punch someone. If I could line up OW#1, OW#2 and WH, I'd like to issue one resounding Three Stooges slap.

Today I resent him just sitting there at the dinner table with his patient smile, waiting for his Plan A.

He has said, "Just give me the opportunity to show you that I love you, Baby." (ugh, I hate that name now, JL, I don't care!)

I am trying so hard. He is too. I want to say that the cuddling and the extra curricular activities have been very enlightening! I learned things about myself in this instance too. Another shocker for me! As suggested, I was selfish and I have NEVER been selfish...it has always been about him! I didn't have a clue that I put him before myself in EVERYTHING!!!

I think I may be reacting to his STD tests, which are tomorrow..How dare he put me at risk? Where was his consideration for me? How could he allow his behavior to impact on my health?

I resisted the overwhelming urge today, to call and e-mail the OW and issue one "Let me just tell you one thing, you scandalous [email]B@@###!"[/email]

I wanted to so badly...I had to literally sit on my hands, squeeze my eyes shut and pray. Of course, the problem is within my R, not with these women. However, I still believe the H of the OW should be told...my reasons are vengeful...I don't want to do it so that their marriages can be salvaged and I'm ashamed.

I am venting here so that I may keep the LB at bay...I have not been successful today. I am so angry. Just hurt and angry.

My WH has done nothing but be nice, respectful of my feelings and the usual behavior. I keep wondering, "Where is that sexpot that everyone else saw?" Today is so hard. I can't say this enough.

Don't leave me just yet...There is still so much for me to do and learn. I am keeping ahopefulone's prayer in my bottom dresser drawer, because I am so low right now. I don't feel loved or lovable. I'm disappointed in myself today. I took a gigantic step backwards today.

I'm not that smart and knowing, but what I do know I can share with you. If you have any other questions about the dark chasm that is known as the male mind, ask away.

Vent, vent, and vent some more. That is why I started posting here, and it helped.

Hang in there.

Married,

I shouldn't be smiling at your last post but I must confess I am. Fasten your seatbelt you are on the "emotional rollercoaster" and the good news is you get a seasons pass...free! The bad news...you have a seasons pass...free!

You are doing fine really, although I know you are hurting. While he is sitting there smiling at you and wanting to help, why not asking what his plan is to rebuild this marriage? What is his plan to rebuild your trust? What procedures does he have in mind to easy your suspicions about him contacting these women again? Has he consider counseling so that you two can understand why this happened and what to do to prevent it?

Don't ask these with anger, ask them with the deep sadness that is in your heart right now. Just look at him and ask him what is the plan.

Oh! and if Baby doesn't work for you, please explain that since you AND his OW were his "Baby" you would prefer that he not use that name with you again. Sounds petty doesn't it? But, it does trigger you doesn't it. The point is tell him calmly and without anger.

This is part of "radical honesty" remember if you read up on "radical honesty" it is not supposed to be brutal honesty.

Keep talking, keep posting and asking questions, and please do some reading on this site. Once you have your feet on the ground and you have a better idea of the patterns involved with this stuff you will find you will be able to make good decisions and your marriage can recover. But, also realize that Harley claims as do other counselors that it takes two years for a marriage to fully recover, if not longer. Not to say things won't be better in a few months, but there will still be triggers, there will still be images, and there will still be the sadness and pain.

It takes time and patience MF30Y. You can do it though.

God Bless,

JL

Justlearning and Reprobatemind, and the rest of my new friends, I must confess, that "rollercoaster" is NOT an appropriate name for what I am going through. I definitely want to give back my free pass.

I took your adviceJL and talked to my WH again. With a few LB thrown in (I seemed to be unable to stop them) he said a few things that registered.

He steadfastly contends that he did not and does not love OW#2 or OW#1. When I reminded him that she shared parts of him that I hadn't he still stuck to his story. He has his IC Tues, with the male partner of a husband/wife team. After his initial visit, I am to attend IC with the wife.

He sat with his blood test bandaid on his arm from the STD tests and swore repeatedly, that "It was only sex." "If there is something more, then I don't know what it is."

I asked him for his plans to rebuild and this was done without anger on my part, but I will tell you one thing....the good professor is not able to address the issue with much clarity. He says that he will not contact these OW and that he has told OW#1 after she both called and came by his office before he retired.

I had no idea she'd done both. I asked why? What else? She had a NCletter, a call on DDay....and she STILL needed more closure? He said, she wanted to convince him that he was making a mistake...What the ####*?

I couldn't hold it! I smacked him! I told him all of the definitive things he should have told her. I told him all of the things that I felt HE should have been feeling. He sat there blinking. His response? "Well, YOU weren't there, so I said what I thought to say." "I don't talk like you, so I did the best I could."

Now guys, I ask you, isn't this a bit obtuse? My WH is not an unintelligent man...he is usually plain spoken and does not waste words. How!!!??! How!!!???!!! How can he be such putty in this girl's hands? I mean, is that the best he could do? It sounded soooo lame and I told him just that. I am only praying that they didn't have one last "good-bye."

I want to believe him when he said there was no last stab of intimacy. He has said he will get another phone in due time and that he does not want to lose me. He mentioned house projects to occupy his time (boring in comparison, I'm sure) and that he will take me to work many mornings. I just HATE driving to work and he knows this. He also said that I will just have to let him show me that he is making an effort.

I don't feel so special. I don't feel as though he will be able to fight for me, the way I am fighting for him. I can't believe that this entire slant on my world was created by someone who loves me. I vascilate back and forth over this one point.

We went to see a play and followed it with dancing...Dirty dancing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> WH and I are from the disco era....We dance VERY well together. I have never done THIS type of dancing though, in public. Well, to be honest, I have only done these moves in the mirror after a shower. After dancing, there was a very intimate session. I was greedy and impulsive, because the test results won't be back until Tues. or Wed.

I was angry with myself and angry with him as he lay there with that satisfied smile...I don't see how he can just receive such an outpouring from me and NOT show signs of ...........I don't know....SOMETHING!!!!!!! He had a VERY young OW show him this same attention. I was able to speak up and the results were astounding. But still, I imagine she was lithe and supple. The fact that he's admitted the sex was "good" makes me want to throw something. He admires my figure and always has....but I didn't know it was being stacked up against someone else's.

I know...You guys have said that it will be fine.....an attentive wife in bed......But you see, I don't FEEL fine. I keep thinking that he will long for that young, soft, and fluffy little sex kitten. I shared this with him, and he has assured me that he will be fine...we will be fine...he just wants his marriage to include a sex life. I'm fine one minute with this, and the next minute I feel like "closing the gate to the corral, and telling him the old mare has gone to the pasture."

I will be going to Walden's tomorrow to purchase my books. I've read here, but somehow, I just see my WH getting the perks, while I'm left trying to please the ****** out of him with my Plan A. I don't want to hit anyone today. Today, I just want a mini makeover. I wish I could turn off the voices in my head! I love my husband and he loves me, but...My God....the girl was 28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hang. In. There...!

vent vent vent away....

I'm surprised that you still want to stay with him. If I did that to my wife, divorce would be guaranteed. No Plan A, B, XYZ or nothin'. I really admire you, honestly.

A mini-makeover? Sounds like a good plan! For yourself, not for him.

The jealousy will simmer for awhile, then taper off as time goes on. Just hang in there and let us know how you are doing. However...

This Bull&*%! about your husband, the OW, no contact letters, phone calls, etc. has got to &^%!ing STOP! Yes, I agree that his response to you was uber-lame. The new phone in due time? Looks like we're due!

Hang in there.

Married,

Now you have me laughing or at least laughing at part of what you said. You asked
After you
Putty in HER hands, I ask? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He just sat there and let YOU abuse him. Would YOU have tolerated such behavior from him? I doubt it seriously. I find it interesting that you fail to see the obvious. The man WANTS to be your H badly or he would NOT have tolerated what you have done.

Given that if you keep it up, you will lose your H. Abuse is not an acceptable way to deal with this and YOU know it. If you don't want him, leave him, divorce him. You have the right, but you don't have the right to abuse him anymore than he has the right to abuse you. I hope I am making myself very very clear here.

You have great power over him and you are abusing it. Stop it!

You also said Of course not, that is why I suggested you ask him. First of all he does not have a plan, just hopes. Second of all he like many who come here fail to understand that like dieting and many other things a plan is necessary for one to meet their goals. He doesn't have a plan because he does not understand relationships. If he wants to develop a plan he either needs to come here, get good counseling, or do a lot of reading on the subject. You do as well.

He needs information he doesn't have, and you need to get a grip in your emotions. This stuff takes time, it takes baby steps, and it takes work. But, most of all it takes care from all concerned.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

i don't really have a lot of input on your sitch except for your feelings of inadequecy and the younger woman thing.

i was "traded in for a younger model" so to speak. and it does destroy your self esteem. and i am only 36! at the time i was 33-34 and ow was early 20's. it is hard. i am very sensitive to how this makes me feel. i started to feel like geez, why would any man my age want me when they can have an early 20something. even though i think i keep myself up and try to stay young, you know,all the high maintenance type stuff, there is no way i can compete with a 20something.

so i understand how you are feeling. BUT, i also came to this realization. I DON'T WANT A MAN WHO WANTS A YOUNG 20 SOMETHING. i am an attractive woman and i have a lot to offer a man. i should not have to even think of competing with a younger woman dammit, there is NOTHING wrong with me! i can be fun and flirty and very sexual. i am smart, i am funny, i am sexy.

i grew to learn that my ex is so enthralled with younger ow because she worships the ground he walks on. she is all "oooo and awwww" over the fact that he is older. she thinks he is tough and macho. she may be attractive on the outside but she is not the smartest crayon in the pack. those who know her have even said that. so, he likes em young and dumb so that he can be in control and be worshipped. good for him. i long for more than that out of a relationship.

you don't need to compete. you are hot and sexy and flirty and fun at your age. screw those younger women! they can't stand up to you or to me sweetheart!

mlhb

I am ashamed of myself, JustLearning and of course....You are right again. I had no right to smack my WH and this will never happen again...My anger just overwhelmed me. I'm usually a soft spoken person. I'm not violent in any way, nor has there been violence in our R. You are so right, as I never would have tolerated this from him, or anyone.

I did feel that he could have been more direct in his responses regarding the OW#1 and his plan for rebuilding our M. Again, you are correct....He doesn't have a plan. This is a man who has written course descriptions, exams, lesson plans ad nauseum.....But he has no plan for us.

I was outraged more than just a little, because the few details that I have regarding OW#1 and 2 are hurtful. I wish I didn't know....and I want to know more. It's confusing and making me weary.

You are also correct, JL, I am taking advantage of his guilt and remorse. He does need counseling...I do too, but it all seems to be moving in slow motion.

I will do better at keeping my outbursts and LB at bay..I will do as you have said and just "stop it." It's unseemly behavior and frankly, it really isn't the person that I am. If you guys knew me, you'd think I was a terrific person...really. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I will continue to take my baby steps. I will continue to make more attempts to understand the mb concepts. I think this is the key that is missing for me. I can't seem to grasp this new info for an age old problem. Reading it in bursts and spurts isn't working as well for me. I will as stated, have my mb materials tomorrow.

JustLearning, I don't know what it is that you do....but I bet you're not being paid nearly enough. Thank you again, for putting me back on solid ground. You are rough! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

mlhb, you DO get it! I know all of what you have shared is so true. My WH has not said that the OW#1 adores and looks up to him, but I'm sure that is the case. You are also right...no one wants a H who desires a broken Barbie that has a hole drilled into the top of her head. I'm just so taken aback, because my WH just didn't appear to be this type of man.

You are a young woman and to think....I don't understand men at all.

I am ok. You are ok. I guess I just needed to hear it again. I'm turning on the waterworks now!

You mb people are amazing. Thank you for taking the time to post. I appreciate it so much. Happy M Day.

mlhb,

Being a guy, I often am not certain I can address uncertainties such as you have had about younger women. Men have them as well, but it doesn't seem to be as a common occurance. However, having said this, let me assure you, that men's idea of beauty does not change. However, their idea of attractive and sexy really does. At least for most men.

You, young lady aren't even to your prime yet. Really, a truly attractive woman has: experience, some laugh lines on her face, a body she knows and respects, and a love of life. That comes with age mlhb and you are not really even there yet. Men do find women attractive at all ages and it is because we don't see what you see. We don't really notice the lines but can become facinated with them. We don't really notice the sags, but can become enamored with them. It is hard for me to explain what I see when I look at women and/or my W, but it is not what women see.

Your H's problem wasn't your age, but your intellect. He craved a bimbo. It wasn't your appearance either, because his issues of control and needing to feel important superceded issues of appearance. He was a fool, and will be a fool and a lonely one at that. Because HE is aging as well and he won't have as much to offer.

So you are right, you don't want a man that thinks 20 something bimbo's are the way to go. You don't have to worry about competing with younger women, you just need to pick a higher class of man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

God Bless,

JL

Ok Married,

First let's agree on something . I agree <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> so does my W, and kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But, alas, a scientist is NOT going to be Bill Gates. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You do realize that your H is putty in your hands right? You do realize that you have enormous power and right now you are giving it to two OW's that don't deserve it nor should have control over your life? You do realize that if YOUR H has any brains at all he is feeling very very ashamed of himself?

Given that you come to realize this, it is time to calm down. You have power and control, use it wisely.

Married, it is unlikely he will say things as you want him to, although it does sound as if he did send her on her way. That is good. You need to realize neither of you can control the other, nor can you speak or think for one another. That does not mean you both don't need protection from this.

You also said I already do think you are. It was evident from your first post. Hence I and others are replying to you.

You also need to sit down and really examine what you need to know. Some people need ALL of the details, some think they do and then regret that, others KNOW they need just the parts that will guide them with minimum being the guide. There is no right level, it is your call so think about it. ANd then proceed from there.

The idea is to understand what has happened and why. But, your H needs to figure this out as well. It was not just you not being as enthusiastic in bed as perhaps you were in the past. The 'begging' was part of it, but I suspect it is NOT what you think.

Consider these women and how they treated them. Recall he was/is a professor used to and probably expecting people to respect him, it is a strong weakness of professors I might add. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So then consider how "begging" might have affected him. Now I think HE needs to figure some of this out for himself, but if you understand it, then you will be able to better handle the ups and downs.

As for a plan, keep asking, pretty soon he will figure out that he must do something to get a plan together. Of course he has no idea, because marriage and relationships are NOT his area of expertise, but...they will be right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This stuff does move in slow motion except when it is going down the drain. The good news is your situation is NOT going down the drain. So hang in there, and give this time. It does take patience as well.

God Bless,

JL