Hi Married,

Another FINE day on the rollercoaster. Ok first things first. You two are NOT supposed to have the same needs. I hope you understand that part. And yes needs change so don't panic about that either.

The idea is to start a dialogue about what you two have found out about one another. This dialogue should include How am I doing meeting those needs? Am I meeting them in a good way? Are you meeting my needs? Are you doing it in an effective way?

The counselor is right, the OW is NOT your concern. She is your H's concern. She keeps popping up in his life and half of is retirement is going to vanish along with the house and alimony. Won't be pretty. So HE has a problem...not you with regard to OW.

Withdrawal from an affair situation is very very common and it is like drug withdrawal. Your H needs to know this, it involves brain chemistry and he needs to stay away from OW and any contact or he prolongs the withdrawal and ups the risk of losing you.

I love this
Darn right and keep up the good work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, realize he asked YOU if you wanted to be married not your H.

Hang in there Married, this is a phase of recovery and if your H can keep his head out of dark places <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> for awhile you will see improvement.

God Bless,

JL

Married,

[color:"red"]Withdrawal bites.[/color]

Ace

P.S. Plus 'what JL said'. (Except I choose not to try to figure out what his double entredre might mean by inserting the <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> in his last sentence!)

Good morning Married,

I haven't posted for sometime but I have not ceased to pray and check each day to see how you are doing. (BTW Married and ReprobateMind, you both have fabulous writing styles!) Married, I have never been in your 'shoes' but God is there with you right now! I will continue to pray and follow your posts. You are not alone, you WILL get through this!

Warmest regards. Keep your head up, you are going to be fine.

Married, sorry you are feeling bad. I literally have to go RIGHT NOW, but I will chat later. I'm here. But first....

ACE....hehehehehehehheLOLOLOLOL....chortle, snort. That was classic. Its the mental image that really made me belly laugh when I saw your post. I will never be able to look at a <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> EVER again without getting a mental image! Just look at the eyes! Oh my god, this is horrible. I'm going to sue for mental anguish.

Sorry. Married, I'll reply tonight.

Hi Folks,

The <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> was fully intended. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'll leave it to your imagination. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

JL

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

hehehehehe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Married,

JL started this dark humor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> threadjack, but I apologize for encouraging it. (If I delete my post, however, RM and DHD's comments will look a bit detached.)

Married, please be assured that I/we are not laughing AT you and I pray that you will laugh WITH us....or at least forgive us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

How are you?

Ace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I agree ace...but I think married needs some chuckles now and again and that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> was a good chuckle.

Married, we are thinking about you and hoping you are ok. Let us know how things are going......

dhd
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hello to my MB Friends!

Of course, dhd is correct! I do enjoy a bit of levity. Heck! I NEED to be able to smile in the midst of all that has happened to me over the past few weeks. Whenever JL, RM, or Ace are able to interject humor, it always seems to occur when I need to "lighten up."

I have just spent the last evening reading in the General Discussion section and I had a few eye opening finds:

First of all, everyone seems to agree, that sexual relations of 4 times a year, is a bit.....odd/just plain ridiculous. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I admit this!

Secondly, it appears as if multiple D Days is not extraordinary in many of the experiences here.

Finally, and this is just what I THINK....my WH has probably had many more A's that just kind of "petered out" and went undetected, in our 30 years of marriage.

I was reading a post where the BS wanted to reconcile with a mate that had multiple A's and was forgiven and taken back each time. The posters urged for the BS to get out and save himself....save the children from having to witness this revolving door of infidelity. I thought about what they said and applied it to my own situation.....

Could I have a serial cheater here, who has gotten away with multiple affairs and who now feels entitled to satisfy himself, peeking his head in all the "dark places?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I ask this, because we appeared to have a great marriage. I THOUGHT we had a great marriage. Oh, yes, I knew he wasn't fulfilled......but we were loving and attentive toward each other. I love him so much. And then! Then I made a horrible discovery!! Four times a year is woefully inadequate! (How very naive and stupid I was!) It has made me think long and hard:

Can my WH give up his wandering? Will this 55 year old chick be able to sustain the level of intimacy that will satisfy his EN? [b]Can he be truthful and openly tell me what else he needs? I'm not buying that faulty questionnaire that he rigged! If not, can I manage to endure another A or D Day?[/b]

Perhaps I am doing what I have done my entire adult life....Perhaps I am creating friction and angst where none exists. I just keep thinking about the situation of that other BS, who became an enabler. There was an admonishment given to the poster, that perhaps the WS was acting upon a pattern of cheating/DDay/Forgiveness.

I guess what I am thinking is that if my WH has to contact OW again and I discover this.....I think I will be done. Finished.....He said, "The sex with her was good." "It was just really hard to stop seeing her." Just think folks...It was my idea for honesty!

When I said, "Well, if I had a 28 year old guy in MY bed, do you think I could be satisfied with YOU after that?" He thought for a moment and replied, "I will.....I can....I think I can be strong....I don't want to sacrifice our marriage.....I don't ever want to lose you.....I'll go to IC....I'll go to MC with you.....I'll read your book......I'll read a million books....I want to be married to you."

Finally, he said earnestly....."I THINK I can do it."

I sat there with my oatmeal brain....I whispered to myself.... DAMM*T!!! You think??????

People....I believe my WH is a true caveman. I don't know what happened!!! This really used to be a very, very intelligent man! I can't go through this crap again, with another D Day in my future. Maybe I am like that other BS....multiple affairs....multiple D Days.....multiple Plan A's.




We have been down this road 20 years ago. What started out as a very benign day, ended with LB's swirling around in my head. I didn't let them form into words...

There were soooo many LB's that I had oozing around. I didn't....And so, I am here.

Ok, I'm back. Busy 2 days...anyhoo....

Toldyasotoldyasotoldyaso. But, thats OK. After the "high" from memorial day weekend came the inevitable crash. Just know that while I said that it will get bad again, just know that it WILL get better (so long as he doesn't screw around). In the meantime, you are doing the right thing, that is, coming here and venting.

I see that your very, very intelligent man is now the very un-intelligent caveman. I say that he is reverting to his true natural male state. Every morning before you wives wake up, us men sneak in from slaying mammoths, burping, farting, drinking beer, and all that other stuff. We then attempt to morph into some semblance of the homo-sapien species, but sometimes the neanderthal bleeds through.

On a serious note, I would say that if he does mess up another time, then yeah, maybe you have some decisions to make. I TOTALLY agree with you being severely pissed of about "I THINK" and all of that bullsh?!. Make sure to remind him that you are not going to be an enabler.

I'm really proud of you. Why? Well, you had all of these smartass remarks in your head, and you kept the voices in your head from becoming the spoken word. That, my friend, takes strength. Please keep it up. You can be firm, but you can be fair.

I think that you have the advantage that some others may not have had, that is, you have identified a major biggie. That biggie was the 4X per year lovin'.

I totally agree with your rants to the effect of "Why would he be unhappy, I treat him great and now he has a young tart too, so what does he have to lose". This pissed off your marriage counselor, but you can always rant to us, your fellow posters. I promise never to call you "sick" or put you down, so you can spew all of your love-busting thoughts here. (That is, I will never call you sick unless you drink light beer or listen to rap. Thats just plain wrong.)

I'm really glad that you can find some smiles among us with our innuendos. Personally, I laughed out loud in the car for at least 15 miles on the way to my volunteer shin-dig last night thinking about the eyes, the open mouth, and then it hit me. THE FACE IS BLUE! Man, this is horrible. To top it off, today at work I found a huge workplace safety/security catalog. In it are literally hundreds of signs that you can order. Since I still had buggy eyes, open mouths, and blue faces on the brain, I was given over to a "reprobate mind" and snickered at "Slippery when wet", "Man working above", "Stay clear when ram in use", "Man working in constricted area", and many, many others. I'm going to stop now before I offend someone again. Its not my fault! I blame JL and Ace for everything!

Hang in there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Oh, yeah. I was going to tell you last night. On the "SF and radical honesty" forum in General Questions II, there is a link to a quite comprehensive sexual survey. This one will take about 45 minutes to complete. I did it for the heck of it. What is useful is that it gives results based on the scores of other test takers so you can see how you rank.

Check it out, and if it is something that helped you learn something about yourself, then maybe your husband can take it, too. Or not. In any case, I just wanted you to be aware.

I refuse to say what my results were on the grounds that my testimony may incriminate me, so I wish to assert my 5th Amendment privileges. I didn't know a survey could cuss at you.

Married,

My H and I had SF continuously, nearly every day/night between D-Day #1 and #3.

For us, it made no difference. Seeking that OW was an addiction, a faux high.....driven by the adventure of hiding it and getting away with it. It was fueled by the enemy and H even admitted that my Plan Aing was the best. And my Plan SF was even better.

Don't beat yourself up for your annual quota of 4. The fog has far deeper tentacles when you factor in the emotional addiction, too.

More later....DH is actually home tonight so I must go!

Ace

P.S. RM, thoughtful post....will comment later, maybe on your EN thread. Dhd, thanks for the laughs! JL...I used to respect you highly.....LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Egad,

My reputation is shot all because of <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> All I have to say is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Married,

I was thinking about your post all day. I realize that what I am going to say you won't be able to do right now, but I think in time you will.

Well, maybe you can do this first thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Enjoy the SF, I mean tell him what you want, how you want it, and enjoy the moment. Look forward to it. Change your perspective and consider it your new physical fitness plan, because in reality it is really good for your health and yes his, although I'm guessing his health isn't high on your concern list. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The next thing I know will be hard for you to do but consider it. You must realize that what you are worrying about you cannot control. He will stray or he won't. You don't have to worry about it. You do all you can do to be a good W. You do all you can do to enjoy your time with him and your family. And the rest will take care of itself.

If he fails, you will survive. If he fails you can leave OR you can stay, it will be totally YOUR call. If he fails, you will know. You don't know it but your senses have been sharpened and you are much more aware than you were. Further, you are better educated about this stuff now. Trust your gut, and your newly acquired knowledge.

I know you hurt, I know you doubt, but don't doubt yourself.You have proven to be a strong woman and a loving one as well. You should be very proud of yourself. He has proven to be less than the success he has felt of himself and he knows it, worse for him YOU know it. He will either buckle down and get with it, or he will slink away into another dark place. You don't have to take any personal responsibility for that.

Do the SF thing, it is good for you. Make darned sure he satisfies you, and yes speak up in bed. Don't just lie there, speak up and act up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But, most of all don't worry, he is the one that has to worry and he knows it. Next time he says "I think", ask him where his priorities lie? Ask him to do more than "think", tell him what you require is that he "do". You are putting out the effort and you expect him to do it as well.

Tell him you don't expect this to be a life sentence for him, what you do expect that he join you in making the marriage better and safer. If he cannot, he knows where the door is.

You don't have to be mean, but you do have to be resolute. Give this time, your worries and concerns as you are finding out are normal, sadly very normal. But, realize he is the one that needs to be worried. He cannot be so stupid as to think a retired 50 something professor has much to offer a 20-30 something bimbo especially when his home and 1/2 of his retirement is gone. In ten years he will have even less, but that is not the case for you for many reasons. Not the least of which is it sounds as if you are a good person.

So think about what I said, and worry a bit less. As you come to realize these things you will worry a lot less.

God Bless,

JL

JL,


Thanks for your sense of humor. That actually boosts my regard for you higher. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> In fact, would you check out my Trials and Smiles thread....and you, too, RM...and anyone else who can help me deal with my H's lying again. I would especially appreciate a guy's perspective on this, which is our latest trial.

How ya doin, Married? In spite of how well we're doing six months after intact NC, you'll see that we're only a few cars ahead of you and the prof on this rollercoaster ride.

But the more bumps and turns, the more opportunity to tweak and smooth things out. To keep positive, I try to revel in the thoughts that 'ONE DAY WE'LL BE ABLE TO USE THIS TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE'....

....And we just keep rollin' along. (But it's better than the alternative.)

Ace

JL, you continue to amaze with your mad awesome teachin' skillz once again. Keep it up.

Ace, Yeah, I'll check it out. Gotta go be with family.

Hello to all MB Friends!

I am still here. I have not posted lately, because I have failed to adhere to the MB principles. I was both embarassed and ashamed to admit this, especially after everyone was so generous with their time and well wishes for my M.

JL, thank you for your very thought provoking and lengthy reply....I have done VERY well in the SF area. However.....

LB's have been oozing out of my pores. In fact they weren't love busters....more like _____busters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I just started to look at the professor one evening and Sybil took over my body. I couldn't stand it!! He'd gone to IC and came home very quiet and never mentioned one word about the session, us, the moon....NOTHING!!!!

I had a list of questions that had been eating away at me and I fired up the list. He sat there blinking behind his paper. Now, let me tell you, thirty days ago, this was cute and made him look thoughtful and reflective. Today? NOT!!!

I asked him the questions regarding our lack of SF during various episodes and tragedies in our lives. He was honest and forthright....but his answers made me want to climb on top of the couch and jump off. I told him that I had a need for his admiration. I am not looking for worship, but just acknowledgement for effort. A struggling and sincere student can be pushed to the other side, with just the right words.

I have written, edited, reworked and tutored people in both of our families for over 30 years. I should have at least four doctorate degrees. I proofread, edited, tutored and cajoled the professor through every advanced degree....Not once has he said more than "Oh yeah....This IS better written like this." "Thanks baby." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That's it. Three advanced degrees....That's it. I tutored his less than intelligent nieces, nephews, brothers and sister. I gave up many spring and summer vacations to "help me pass this big test that will change my life." I did it because I saw a need and I did it because I knew I could make a difference. WH was pleased at my efforts and THAT pleased me.

I asked the professor, why he had never given me a compliment, EVER!!!!!!!! My father used to do that, and I hadn't remembered until I took the EN survey. The professor replied, "Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I think I have told you you're smart.....Haven't I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I bit my tongue. I bit my inner jaw.

While still asking questions, I asked him HOW could he talk to a 28 year old for 134 min. and barely have anything to say to me on the phone? "Do you need bread" is NOT what the OW got...It IS what I got! I asked if he was attracted to her admiration of HIM.

His response? "Well, she did rather look up to me." "Oh, I don't want you to think she was stupid....She was SMART <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

SHE...WAS....SMART????????????????????????

I couldn't help it. I launched a lamp.

This is not my husband. This monosyllabic nitwit has taken my husband.

I ask you...Is this fair? These OW get the sexy, hunky, text messaging guy, and I get THIS guy!!!

LOL, you are cracking me up. Sounds like things are going as expected. Hopefully he will step up his effort, so you won't have buyers remorse.

Welcome back Married! I've been checking back often and was worried about you. Buy a couple more lamps just in case.

I'm married to an alien right now too. Strange species aren't they.

Believer is wise! I'm learning so much here. But I also think it is not a linear path....(and I so like linear). These twists and turns make me seasick. At least your H will go to counseling. Mine is perfect, doesn't need it, it doesn't work, did that with his XW....yea, like she is me...sure darlin!

Keep up the good work, you'll be fine, then you can visit my thread and give me advice....I sure need it now!

Hi believer!

Thank you for checking on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It makes me feel worthwhile, during these days of perpetual low self esteem. I would NOT be able to walk and talk at the same time, had it not been for the internet angels here.

You guys warned me about the rollercoaster( JL and RM), but I am still so unprepared for the daily and hourly twists and turns. Sometimes I just sit and stare into space. I have more work to do, as I am discovering new things about myself. Some are so eye-opening that I am startled by the revelations. Others are the result of my naivete.

I am not only angry with my WH, I am angry with myself as well. How silly and proud I was! We were the envied couple! The golden coosome twosome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

He cheated and I retreated. No more. I have told WH that I don't want to fix this M with the bandaids of the past MC. I was told by the MC twenty years ago, to "Suck it up." Can you imagine saying that to a client who was so destroyed and shattered? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I want this M renewed. I want it to be different and better. WH will no longer be my EVERYTHING. It was foolish, so foolish to expect this mortal to become my WORLD. Well, he wasn't really my entire world, but he certainly shaped my view of the universe. Utterly stupid.

I am currently searching for an IC, because I don't see how the green socks and sandals guy has done much to help WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> We need the MC that Bill and Hilary had. Through a little mental prodding, I am finding that my EN just weren't met because I viewed them as just plain Emotional Baggage that I didn't need to carry into this marriage. Isn't that ridiculous? Neither of us benefited from the arrangement in the true sense of bonding and protection of the marriage.

There is so much more that has happened, but I will stop now. The past week was so HEAVY and I'm exhausted.

Ahopefulone, I will check on your thread first. My goodness! I just glanced at your D Day! May God bless you.