Thanks for the info and offer Mark.

Ace

Hello To All of My MB Angels!

I have only had a scant few minutes to lurk during the past few days. I am now officially retired!

My WH has been with me each and every day and we have definitely exceeded our 15 hours of companionship. I have found that I do enjoy his company so much. The "people in my head" speak to me at the oddest times. The voices are not as loud and the visual images are not as vibrant...and I have been able to cope.

Mark and Ace!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Thank you ever so much for the list of counselors. WH and I have an appointment for one of the religious counselors from the list on Mon. and another session with a recommended counselor on Wed. of this week. We are going to use this as an opportunity to combine the visit with a short sightseeing excursion. I feel very good about these upcoming sessions, because now I think I will be able to focus on rebuilding our M. The counselor was very positive during the phone interview and admonished me for a LB.

As my WH listened in, I told her I was interested in MC and this was my "last effort." She quickly told me that her practice was established on the concept of recovery. She told me that if my attitude was one of defeat and resignation, then I was approaching MC with a defeated attitude. WH just listened....He says very little during the phone interviews. I want to reach into the phone and just SQUEEZE his voicebox. It kills me, but I refuse to make the interview process easier for him. He will not say that we are entering MC because he had an A. He conducts the interview as if we were shopping for a new RV, or a television.

Ace! You are so vigilant! Thank you! Thank you! When I failed to respond, you were right there! You are my kind of human! I love manners and protocol! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WH was my "date" at the flurry of retirement parties and receptions. I heard over and over :"You guys look so good together." "The two of you are so lucky to have each other...Just think, you're on another honeymoon now."

It was during these types of exchanges that the "people in my head" would begin to grumble! My WH looked so dashing and respectable. I would look at him and start to wonder "How can he stand there in that stupid dinner jacket and know that he was in a cheap motel with his student for more than five months?"

During all of the dancing and prancing, I kept wondering why he refused to go to any of his own retirement celebrations?

I have asked him about this. My WH walked away from his university carrying a little orange crate...Over 30 years of his memories and life were shoved into that little container. He left with only a few cursory good-byes and turning in his keys.

He was with me at my school during the surprise party thrown by students, parents, faculty and staff. I glanced over to see him smiling broadly and videotaping the gathering. He just waved and continued to man the camera.

I am focusing on this, because I truly don't understand how this man could function in this manner. I must read more regarding how a WS is able to compartmentalize. My WH must be able to do this very, very well. Each time a compliment was given, WH just grinned and accepted it... He does not look or act sheepish. Outwardly, he looks unscathed...He does not act like the man who broke my heart. I see no remnants of the crying professor who grabbed me by the shoulders and begged me to stop searching for evidence, while he cried buckets of tears. I squint at him privately, as I look for vestiges of that man who immediately broke the NC to call the OW. I do not see any part of that sexy, text messaging machine.

What I am not saying clearly is this: Can my WH still be pretending? Is he just waiting for the opportunity to contact his little sexpot? Is he sincere in his outward attepmts to meet my EN? Can he be happy with the little schoolteacher after all? Does he miss the OW? Wouldn't he HAVE to miss her? Does he have people in his head too?

During SF I stopped to ask my WH if he remembered where he was...Let's just say that he was...gleeful. He said that he remembered that it was me that he was with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I now know that SF four times a year was wrong. I suppose that I just don't believe that he loves ME enough to give up his life of secrecy and infidelity. Yes, JL, I think my radar will detect this...but still...this A has rocked me to my very core. I can hardly believe that this nightmare was detected only this past April 29th.

I am still very insecure in this particular area of SF. After all, OW was 28 years old. I keep thinking that stuff may have changed since the last time I expressed myself sexually. I still have visions of her doing very MODERN....things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

JustLearning, I really DID feel connected to this M. I really DID feel we had a great relationship. I honestly did. I NEVER felt the lack of SF was a problem for us. It just seems so silly of me now, as I look at this in hindsight....But during the course of my M, I really and truly thought we were connected. I go over your posts several times a day, because each time I see and feel something different there. You are such a wise man and I am so sorry that I'm a bit "thickheaded" at times.

I am very, very saddened to think of where we would be now, had I not found this site. Just think....before DDay in April, I had never used the computer to do more than play solitaire and to type a few tests. I had no one to turn to...I had no balm for that horrible pain. I will be forever grateful.

Reprobatemind,, I do appreciate you so! I can't imagine that you are 30 years old! Your list of admirations played over and over in my head during the week of celebrations. I sat there listening to all of the accolades and I had to smile to myself! I kept wanting to add: "Oh yes, there is one more thing that I would like to add, that my friend Reprobatemind has just mentioned to me!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There were very few LB's this past week. My WH encountered two coworkers at a combined district-wide retirement celebration. He laughed and exchanged pleasant conversation and NEVER INTRODUCED ME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I immediately told him that I was a person...I was his wife...I expect to be introduced....I am NOT your girlfriend for the night. He apologized, but for the life of me, I don't understand this guy! I reiterated that this is unacceptable behavior. His response? "Oh....I'm sorry." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I feel that I must continue to tell everyone here at MB over and over, that this really IS an intelligent man.

And so my friends, I am feeling so much calmer. I anticipate my session tomorrow. Ahopefulone, dhd, Pepperband, Plank and Ahnold, I want to thank you all for looking in on me and believing that I have the strength and courage for this adventure. I appreciate you all so very much.

take a look at the link I posted to Dr Harley's video message....

I think you'll gain some comfort there

MF30, I have been reading your thread and have marvelled at your sense of humour throughout, even so soon after d-day - you should write a book about this! When I first read your comment about SF 4 times a year, a grin crossed my face (as I've just about recovered my sense of humour after my nightmare year). My FWH would, I think, have been rather grateful if we'd had SF 4 times a year. Due to some gynaecological problems, which I know is a poor excuse and we should have sorted it, we didn't have any SF for 15 years! We're making up for lost time now, too.


Ditto for me on this one. Nothing was said, so I assumed it was OK.

Married,

So glad you appreciated the list. My seeking Mark's input led to ForeverHers, an MB veteran to post the list on the recovery thread just as he was leaving to celebrate his 30th anniversary, 5 years after his D-Day.

BTW, FH's list and Mark's musing have created an intriguing thread that you inspired on the recovery forum. Hope you can post your insight on "If you've been Married for 30 years, what's your MAGIC?" sometime.

For you both, Married and DH59, I am evidence that SF often does not deter a wandering spouse. Even when I left in the middle of the night to sleep in the guest room (because I got tired of being kicked for snoring), we were both sexually fulfilled....well so he says. When I was trying to be OW's friend, she claims he told her that, too. Didn't stop them from having phone sex and letting my calls go into voice mail, though.

Married, I am so proud of you and your progress. Glad you are retired and your WH is apparently desiring to recover your marriage, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is an interesting adventure, this infidelity rollercoaster of recovery. Hang on.....you can make it.

Ace

Married for 30 Years,

My name is Mr. Goodstuff; I am pleased to make your acquaintance. I have been observing your story from afar and noted that you have been assisted by some real talent. I had little more to offer you then that you were getting from the likes of Just Learning and the others so I just watched and read.

Like you, I too have been married for 30 years. That is a lot of investment to simply throw away to preserve a damaged ego. Certainly no one would blame you if decided that it just wasn’t worth it. My wife betrayed me just as your husband betrayed you. I was as blind to the deficiencies that were building in my marriage just as you were blind to the ones that were building in your marriage. Be that as it may, it is certainly refreshing for me to read that you have chosen to give this marriage “your best shot”. It is equally refreshing to know that your husband feels the same way. I think that is wonderful, really, really wonderful.

My wife and I are rapidly approaching the three-year mark. How did we reach this milestone? Simple really. We are here for three key reasons; 1.) We discovered this site along with some poster, ahhh what’s his name, oh yea, “Just Learning”, 2.) My wife wanted her husband more then she wanted other men, 3.) We BOTH wanted to save our marriage and indeed, wanted something even better.

Based on what I’ve read of your travels thus far, “I like your chances!”

Keep in mind that your husband and you are very early in this whole process. As the days turn to weeks and the weeks to months things WILL improve and you will begin to breathe easier. That is of course IF you both continue to consider some of the great advice that is here and KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BALL. A good marriage takes work and a great marriage take “smart” work. So never again underestimate the pitfalls of raw complacency.

Nuff said. I pulled out several quotes from this tread that I thought were notable or just plain amusing:



Like you, the clerk just reached under the counter and handed it to me without a second glance, but I must tell you that I was completely MORTIFIED. It made me smile to read of your similar encounter.



You really need your partner to understand these Marriage Builder principles. As your recovery progresses it becomes more and more important that you travel this road as a “team”. He needs to know about the “love bank”, “giver and taker”, “radical honesty”, “transparency”, “emotional needs” and all the rest. Make sense, yes / no?



It took my wife 4 weeks to fully surface the depth of her betrayal and for no contact to be firmly established. So please, do not be too dismayed. Your reactions are normal, natural and expected by everyone here.



I see you have kept your humor intact. When you described your doc with “green socks and sandals,” the image was just too much for me to bear; I couldn’t help but laugh out load. Your sense of humor will serve you well. I can’t stress how important I think that really is.



And that last sentence is one you should NEVER forget.



Yeah, I suppose it’s true, we men are at the core, just a bunch of “cavemen”. Yeah, that’s it, “cavemen from Mars”, and don’t you forget it!



Most men romantically connect with women through SF. It is how men “love”. Most men will wither and die without it. Even more then that it is important that YOU like and enjoy SF with your husband. For me, a romantic sexual encounter with my wife is the pinnacle of intimacy and love. When she responds to my advances I just go “goo-goo”. When she takes what she wants from me to her own satisfaction I go, “goo-goo double plus”. It is a power that you women have, use it to build and grow your love with your husband.



Did he duck? Pricless!



It is not always easy to find the right fit. Perhaps wing-tips and shorts might work better for you.



You are at the cusp, he is at the cusp. Feel free to move from “Just Found Out” to the “In Recovery” forum, as that is where you have both arrived.



Me too!

Mr. G

Mr. G,

Good to see you around these parts. I think Married will be needing your services in a very short time as she and her H move into recovery. Please hang around and congrats to you and Mrs. G I am so glad for both of you. It is hard to believe it has been 3 years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Married:

A few comments on your comments. Or should I say impressions based on your comments. I think you are reading a few things incorrectly with regard to your H. Permit me to offer you afew examples of what I sense. You said
Short answer...SHAME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I suspect he feels he doesn't deserve any acknowledgements. You may take some solice in this, but in the long run it could hurt your marriage. What is hard for a BS to understand, is that they NEED their WS recovered or the marriage will suffer. Don't need to do anything just now, but put this in the back of your mind.


What did he say when you asked? Universities are different than K-12 schools in that the people in them don't often work together or share as much, but my guess is that feels he has brought dishonor upon himself and he deserves no acknowledgements. Sad when you think about it.


My bet...he is proud of you. He enjoys your success and the acknowledgements bestowed upon you. He feels you deserve them. Remember you were blind to a few things in your marriage, and I am betting so was he. Your blindness led to inaction, his led to poor decisions and actions. But given that, I am sure he enjoys seeing you in this fine moment in your life.

Next you stated and asked
Why would he be showing remorse at your retirement party? Why would he have to compartmentalize being their with you from something else? I don't see the line of questioning in your mind being very productive and probably not near what he is seeing or thinking. What I do think is you are very close to a disrespectful judgment, DJ, thinking along this line. This is not productive for you.




I don't know but the answer is yes he could be happy with the "little school teacher", because he does not have to remain married to her, but he has and he is facing the music. As for the OW, you are giving her too much power over you. She probably has more power of you, than she does over your H at this point. Let your H worry about her, you address recovery and your H. Remove her from having control over YOUR thinking.



Yikes, I'll bet that was fun for H. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Of course it has rocked your world. I am fully convinced that if you knew beforehand that what you were doing would threaten your marriage you would have changed. I am sure your radar is working just fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Let me offer you something to consider, especially older men <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. Your can easily give up the younger model for several reasons. One, he has a long history with you, and I think loves you more than you and perhaps he realized. Two, as men age beauty changes. Yes, when confonted with a stunningly beautiful young woman, men notice. However, what men want is to be noticed by their significant other. Men see form and shape, thus as we age our sense of beauty does as well. I am sure you are very attractive to him, and I am sure he would prefer you, an enthusiastic you, to anyone. Why? You know him, and have loved him for a long time. He knows that deep down even if he felt rejected by you over the years.

Married you have far more going for you than you realize, and frankly the OW is very likely the loser in any comparison. Will he go back to OW? I doubt it, but he could. You will know. Have some confidence in yourself.


Oh Man Married I want to just flat out answer this, but I cannot on a public forum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Just let me say, that you sound like a teenager in reverse. Teenagers cannot conceive of the fact that their parents know ANYTHING about sex. Further, they feel they invented it. But, dear lady there is little new under the sun with regard to this topic. You have all of the tools, and I am betting you know how to use them. I would guess the only one you are not using well enough is your mind. You see it is YOUR job to see to it that your H satisfies you...tell him what you want, and when he does it well, thank him. You have no idea how that affects men. I will simply say it is powerful. This OW did not invent sex, she is not necessarily very skilled. All she offered was an enthusiastic partner. You can beat that hands down, because you love him as well. You have nothing to worry about Married.


What I think you are missing when focussing on the SF issue is that you failed to take your H's comments and requests seriously and discounted them because these things were not important to you. That level of rejection is soooooo powerful and you really need to learn to appreciate it and avoid it. Your H could of "taken things in hand" and probably did, but what really got to him was to be rejected by you.

You don't know the power you have in this relationship Married, and if you learn that your marriage will flourish.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Glad to see things are a bit better. That roller coaster goes down, but it goes up, too! Eventually, it will even out.

For what it worth, will it count for anything if I tell you I will turn 31 on July 2nd? Maybe I won't seem so wet behind the ears, then :-)

As far as "modern" technique, let me comment. You see, I am the voice of youth and vitality on this forum. I'm hip. I'm so modern, it hurts to look in the mirror. Ask me anything you want about modern techniques. I'm so modern, that the modern stuff now I call "old school". hehehehe.

Seriously, JustLearning hit the nail on the head (again). There is nothing new under the sun. Check out the frescos at Pompeii and Herculaneum. I have, for purely historical research purposes, of course. Don't worry about "modern" stuff. You know it all already. In case you don't, this is one area that old dogs can learn new tricks quite well.

Let us know how things are going. It made me feel good that I made you smile via DSL modem.

Well, I'm learning new tricks! 'Kama Sutra for 21st Century Lovers' is quite handy, if you're reasonably flexible!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Married,

Glad to see you are slowly but surely doing better. JL knows just what to say and he said all the right things!!

You are never, never, never too old for "modern" kinda love!! Be VERY open and honest with him in bed...for your sake and his. It is the best way to be!!

I do have a funny (and tramatic for me) story that will make you laugh. My grandmother heard something about oral s-e-x (OS) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> on the Dr. Phil show and told me about it but what she was telling me about was NOT OS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />!! So I had to look into my 80 year old grandmothers eyes and politely tell her what OS was. She honest to God didnt have a clue. And after I told her all there was to know, she said (and I quote) "Well I am sure they DO NOT do that in North Carolina (which is where we live)". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I swear this is a true story. Hope this mad you laugh, and I hope you continue to do well!!!

DHD

Hello to My MB Friends!

I thank you all. I want to say this first, because I really have needed you in my life. I have a very small extended family and I felt as though I had no one to turn to. I had no confidants to help me navigate the infidelity minefields, until I came here.

If I were to inherit any money...Let's just say a few people here would have no financial worries. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My WH and I have completed the first MC session and it went fairly well. The counselor does not follow MB principles, but I think it will still be fine. Our counselor did not allow me to heave, cry and ramble on and on.

She allowed me to express my disappointment, but I couldn't stay in that place. She kept me focused on the marriage at hand. She began by asking us each if we were there to save the M. She proceeded to inquire about our families.

As she made inquiries and notes, she presented us with a family tree of infidelity that would make a Kennedy blush. Of course we knew of the circumstances, but to see them all on paper! Unsettling! She STILL doesn't have the whole story either. WH forgot an uncle or two....and that roaming brother of his!

She briefly touched on EN's, but they weren't identified as such. This MC would not allow WH to stroke his beard thoughtfully and reply, "Hmmmm. I really don't know." She also shut down his most classic line of, "Well....Let me think a moment....No, I don't remember that, actually." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> My WH is not comfortable discussing what HE wanted, or what HE needed. I, on the other hand, have awakened! I know what I want, I know what I need and I definitely know what I didn't have.

I appreciated that the MC would not allow me to lob LB's across the marital net. Every time I attempted to revisit a particularly ugly memory, she would admonish me and say, "Married....Stay with us in the NOW." "You and the professor need a plan for this marriage. You both have a lot of work ahead of you."

I appreciated the focus, but I was bursting at the seams to "spill my guts." I think I tipped her off and let her know when a nasty LB was going to erupt. It seems that every time I'd recross my legs, a LB was about to fly. She "read" my body language. This is the thing. I hadn't felt the urge to use any LB for a week or so. The act of sitting in that office brought them back to the surface.

This MC was firm. She was gentle. She gave HOMEWORK!!!! I love homework! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> She gave us reading material excerpted from a text other than MB. WH and I are to discuss the text on EN's and open a dialogue. I have read my materials three times....the professor is STILL reading and HIGHLIGHTING his for the first time.

We are taking teeny, tiny steps in this. WH has ventured to say that he never thought to voice his other EN's. He said that if he'd had SF, then he felt everything else would have been "fine." At some point this week, the professor will eventually finish his reading....SIGH.

Did I mention that I frequently insert DJ's? I wasn't aware of this until MB. It is a trait that I must work on, because I seem to have a MILLION ways to insert them during the course of a day. I just thought they were opinions! It didn't matter if WH agreed or not. Since WH began reading "the little purple book", he has begun to point the DJ's out to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Each day this week has been a good one. I haven't had the need to silence the "people in my head" quite as much. For me, this is so very difficult.

JustLearning and Mr. Good.....cerebrally, I know I must venture over to the Recovery Board...I think I'm afraid to leave here. Does that make sense at all? I want very much for my M to be in recovery... I think I'm afraid to leave here. Does that make sense at all?

I want very much to be in recovery...I'm a little weepy now at the prospect. Our graduates would often act out and sabotage their academic performance just before it was time to graduate...They had fears of the unknown. They didn't feel ready to make the next transitional step. They didn't feel confident that they had learned enough to succeed.

I was always the teacher that sat with them and let them voice their fears. I held their hands and gave them that final nudge...a little push....a gentle little "You can do this."

Now just look at me. It is my turn. I'm afraid to hope and move to the other side of this. I think I'm going to need a little push.

Hi Married,

Glad you found an MC who is firm but gentle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great first step....others will follow.

More to come. I've been up nearly 40 hours (almost) straight, but I'll check in later.

Ace

Hello All!

I just wanted to address a few comments made by my friends. I don't seem to be able to keep my posts short and I didn't want to bore anyone unnecessarily. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Pepperband, , thank you for the video reference! I watched it and I so agree! Infidelity should really be against the law! The casualties and repercussions can destroy families and ruin countless lives. The lies, the secrets.....Let me just say that I will order this video that I would never have discovered without your assistance!

Reprobatemind, I do so wish I had the opportunity to have had you in my class! You are so delightful and you make me smile (sometimes you even make me spit while drinking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) I refuse to indulge in ageism anymore...You are wise beyond your years and I will not refer to your youth again...Such a scamp....Such a whippersnapper.... Is that the same as being the modern voice of youth and vitality? Thank you for your vote of confidence. I really have learned a few new tricks. The best part? I've incorporated these "tricks" into my private repertoire! Heck! Didn't George Foreman and Jane Fonda have a second shot?

DH59, I have read your story after you responded to my post. You sound so sincere...I'm sure we would have been friends. After I read that you had no SF for 15 years, I just sat here for a minute thinking. Have you met my dear friend, JustLearning? Boy, oh boy, would he have GIVEN IT TO YOU!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> No, maybe he would not have...You said you had medical problems, so maybe he would have let you off with a simple reprimand. After all, my case was different. I discounted my H's EN. I'm STILL stinging over JustLearning's comment that I would not like to beg to go shopping! Oh yes, he also told me my WH could have asked for a divorce! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Those few sentences from April still rumble around in my brain today, because I knew instinctively that JL was right.....AGAIN !

Your poor and dear grandmother...I find her absolutely charming and your story DID make me laugh out loud. Hmmm... Karma Sutra? Did I mention that I am VERY flexible? Years and years of dance and yoga! Thank you for the reference!

Ace! In real life, I think we would have been friends too. Thank you as always, for checking on me. You mention that you and WH enjoyed frequent SF? My! What the heck did he finally say his most necessary EN's were? He still had energy and enough imagination for the OW?? My WH had financial-something-or-other in his top needs, right after SF. I will tell you, that EN questionnaire was an eye opener for me. I will never really understand men. I STILL think my WH fudged on his questionnaire....Oops....Another DJ!

I am pleased to meet you, Mr. Goodstuff! Any graduate of JustLearning's teachings is just fine in my book! To be in recovery for three years is just so wonderful! This is a milestone that I want to secure for my M. I think...No, I know we can do it. I just doubt it from time to time. My WH is not as familiar with the MB principles as I think he could be. I am still trying my very best to learn them for myself. The professor is proving to be a very, very slow learner. He has said that he is willing to learn, but that it is not easy for him.

Mr. Goodstuff, I love your name and I too want my WH to be "double goo-goo." We are moving rapidly in some areas of recovery, but much more slowly in others. I would appreciate your input very much and I thank you from the depths of my heart, in advance.

JustLearning, I seem to always save my comments to you for the very last. I am so grateful. I think you know I am...My eyes well with tears now, for no particular reason and I really can't explain why.

JL, I am trying very hard to have confidence in myself. I am trying mightily to believe in my own "female force." Each day seems to improve...I don't improve by leaps and bounds. When I look in the mirror, I see...me. According to my "friends" and the friends of my children, I look "pretty good for 55." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

JL, it is true. I know this. I think I am saddened to recall all of those missed opportunities for a more meaningful marriage. All of those years of smiling and loving each other, but NOT meeting each other's needs. I used to be so vibrant and alive. The professor was a hunk!I watched my weight, exercised and kept up with fashion, without being ridiculous. We could have guarded our M so much better than this. I know the OW was a symptom of our problems....I suppose it's easier to look at her, than to look at WH or myself. I am trying so hard to kick her out of my head!

Before you clobber me, let me assure you that I know there is time to reflect and repair. We are ready to step it up and get this relationship in gear. I only thought of the passage of time just today.

If I had only known to put my tutu on earlier, I probably wouldn't be here at MB. It is much more complicated, I know this too. I am listening, reading, thinking and learning. There is so much to know. So much has changed in my life in such a short time.

JustLearning, before I leave JFO, I have just decided that I am going to buy you a car. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You deserve it...I appreciate you so much.

Married!,

First, I, like many others, enjoy your writing so much that you never need to apologize for long posts. I always know that I'll probably laugh out loud WITH you at one time or another.

Just took a nap and it's good to see you post twice in one day and also on Pep's video thread. Haven't seen that video yet, but I will check it out. (I don't make internet purchases either....you're not alone.)

Gotta try to keep awake now so I don't get totally discombulated on my sleep cycle after my massive work project.



Many MBers have met, so it could happen one day. I would be honored to be your real life friend. I was a dance coach, too. Quit dancin' and gained 80 pounds though. Ironically it was after I lost 40 of those 80 that WH had his EA. Go figure! But we're gonna take dance lessons together soon. (And I've nearly lost all of the final 40 pounds since D-Day #1.)



Like most guys, his need for 'significance and dignity' (aka "admiration") was very high (#2) but I gave him the opposite while OW heaped both on him via their fantasy. The intriguing part is that our top two ENs (SF and Admiration)were switched. The difference led to his EA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />



I think that the entire EN concept is the most unique component of the MB solution. It helped us begin to find reasons for our 32 year detachment.



My WH changed his ENs often.....as his fog dissapated they stabilized. Your WH was probably as honest as he could be 'for the moment' which, as we've seen, can change drastically and suddenly.



I saw the JFO as GTO (do they still make those kinds of cars) and laughed out loud doubly with this off the wall comment. You are too freakin' hilarious, Married. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hope to see you on the Recovery board soon. Check out my "Trials and Smiles" recovery thread and the thread your name inspired that JL recently posted to. I've been so busy with my work project, I haven't even checked on my recovery thread lately so it might have slid off the pages somewhere. If you follow through with JL's car, I wanna go for a ride, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL

Ace

P.S. Thank you for the exclamation point after my name. Since Admiration is my top EN, whenever someone mentions something I've written it makes my heart soar. Not sure why, but that "!" means alot to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

the sexiest thing a wife can bring to the marital bed is

enthusiasm and eye-contact

one of the most revealing marriage books I have ever read is Schnarch's book

Passionate Marriage

it is NOT a how-to-kama-sutra-positions manual

It will not be a comfortable easy read for you .... but you will find out how sex IS the crucible in marriage

which explains it's importance
and why

eyes-open enthusiasm is key

PS

I wholeheartedly recommend you read this book

buy your own copy

keep a highlighter nearby, you will need it

PS (again)

and, in Passionate Marriage you will read why "youthful sex" is nowhere as sexy-intimate as elder sex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

and this will give you

hope
courage
and a challenge !!!!!!!!

Hi, I finally found a situation at least in age similar to mine. And this site has men responding explaining how they think and I need to hear that. I have had a relationship with Joe for over 22 yrs, 9 of those married. Second marriages for us both. He is 62, I am 58. Two years ago I left the town I had lived in for 35 yrs, a job I liked and moved an hour away because all we did was fight and I hated his drinking and did not want to look at him anymore or felt we were destroying each other.So instead of doing the same dance, I changed it. We had gone to counseling a few years prior and he quit, I followed rules by not being sarcastic or critical (which is a fault of mine) and we did well for 8 mos. It was great-then we stopped going (my fault-naive enough to think we were "cured") and fell back into our old pattern. My husband supported my move, we agreed to work on marriage from a distance, I naively thought once again that he would realize his loss, get his act together and rescue us. I sometimes think I live in a fantasy world. We had always had great sex, that part of our life was good, sometimes ED on his part because of fatigue, age, drinking but most of time great. I know this is going to be long but bear with me, I need the input. Anyway, so I move, hate my new job, miss friends, miss him and think what have I done, better to be with him drinking than alone. He continues to see me off and on, even suggests things I have always wanted him to do to come back but I could not move at the start of a new job (teaching) and probably really hurt his ego by saying "too little-too late kind of thing"- during this period he also loses a very good job and drinks even more and begins suffering PTSD from Vietnam 35 yrs ago. So I know he hit rock bottom and I really never understand how a drinker thinks. It seems like under the influence they speak the truth accorded to married for 30 yrs but yet Joe says it really isn't how you feel. So now getting to the point, after 2 mos of staying connected with me at a distance, he begins being angry and refuses to see me, hangs up, etc and I drive to his place to confront, avoids me, just ugly. Finally one time he does pay a visit and we have sex, says he is sorry for avoiding me and will work on marriage. Then by a phone call I find out 2 wks later he has been seeing someone for almost the two months he was avoiding me and she is 42 and a pretty easy target. I know her vaguely, we were from a very small town. He has know her since she was 12 and a good friend of her brother's. She is not all that attractive, I really was/am for my age now and so is he. I was totally devastated, thought I would die, yada, yada, as we all have. After I drive down and confront her and him, he ends it easily enough, said it never meant anything, had ED problems with her, only had sex twice, was lonely, drinking, angry at me for leaving and wanted to get even, never stopped loving me and still did. This was almost 2 yrs ago, he quit drinking, moved in with me and has been the man I always wanted him to be. My questions are- why could he have not done this before he decided to see this woman (he had hired her sons to work for him and would pick them up and drop off so had opportunity to hang around and visit-that is no big deal, they knew each already, but why does sex have to follow, especially if you are with a stranger and experience ED-is that not humiliating and if she was not all that into sex, just wham bam kind of girl, I really get into myself) I was also available anytime for sex if that was what he needed and I was disease free, he risked sleeping with something that slept around frequently. I have lost my thought, but why risk all that and that I might have divorced him as my friends advised instead of forgiving and trying to make it work. Other question-why am i still obsessing over it now, we also went to counseling again and she said "get over" move on, he loves you. I just feel like when the "****** hit the fan" so to speak, he had to make a choice and until that time he had his cake and eat it too thing and he realized I was the better deal, financially self sufficient, she had no money, he was out ofjob (now works very hard) and just cannot accept that he really loved/loves me or he would not have done this and he says if I really loved him I would not have moved and left him. To you men out there, do you understand what he went through, I don't want to make excuses for what he did, just want to understand it and accept it. thanks for taking the time to read.

Hello Lindysue,

I've taken a liberty to repost your questions on your very own thread. Here is the link:

Help for Lindysue

Good luck,

Mr. G

Thank you for the compliment. And I don't believe I have had the 'pleasure' of JL's wisdom in any of my posts. Reading his posts on other threads has been rather helpful, though. Perhaps he thought I was a lost cause, as I didn't really follow MB plan to the letter. Just muddled through really, with a few MB guidelines thrown in when I could, but we're getting there.


I'm afraid you've lost me now. I can't remember mentioning my grandmother anywhere!

I did mention the Kama Sutra though. And this brings me on to Pepperband's posts about the Schnarch book. I took a look at it - available from Amazon UK - and it looks like yet another one to add to the arsenal, methinks. Not that the KS book was the only one I was going to rely on. It was merely that, in relation to my medical issues (one of which is difficulty reaching the 'Big O'), I read that trying different positions would help. The menopause isn't helping here, either, but H is rather considerate in this matter. Shall we say he has never been a 'wham bam, thank you mam' type of lover. Probably why OW took such a shine to him. She had never met a man with such consideration, apparently.

Take care.