Found out 2 weeks ago tomorrow that W is in an EA. Without any knowledge of MB or plan A/B I demanded that she stop contacting OM (had only been via email since init meet 2 mos ago).

Details - me 41, WW 40, married 18 yrs, 3 kids, 17, 14, 12. I had a close call with an EA (more of an infatuation/fixation) with her brother's GF in Jan of this year, but other than that no prior history of A's - either her or me.

She met him in a bar when we were out together with a big group of friends. Said she felt an immediate attraction to him - so much that she gave him her cell #. He called 2 weeks later, and they began talking.

I was traveling a bunch w work at the time - and their relationship really took off when I was gone. I didn't used to pay much attention to cellphone bills (NOW I DO!) but noticed that the last bill was over $600. When I started digging, I started prying and she addmitted it.

For the 1st week after telling me she said she wasn't ready to 'give it up' - that it was something special, etc. all of the fog talk. Saw a counselor later that week, she said the same thing - cut it off, clear your head, then assess situation. She refused. Later that weekend, she did agree to stop contacting him. (this was 5 days after dday.)

3 days later (this past Wed.) she contacted him again - admitted it to me. I gave her an ultimatum then - stop it, focus on us, or leave. She left for a couple of hours - had a 2 hr phone conversation with him (verified on the bill) then came home crying, all torn up, saying as hard as it was she owed it to us and the kids to work on it.

Today she went missing for 4 hours. When I pressed her for the truth over where she had been, she admitted to having gone to his work to see him, and had spent the afternoon with him in his truck trying to figure out what to do.

(We are both religeous - she says she will never be intimate with someone while she's married - but that didn't stop her from letting it get this far)

Once I filtered the info of her having seen him again, I demanded that she leave immediately. We explained to the kids that mom had some issues to work through, and that she'd be @ grandma's for a while. Kids were devastated. But she still left.

Did I move to plan B too quickly? I just bought SAA,halfway through it, but scared and hurt!!


Pls help - all advice appreciated.

Welcome. Yes, you moved too quickly. And I don't think you are even in Plan B. That requires no contact at all for any reason.

Start over, and do Plan A first. Read all about it here. Also consult with us before you make your next move.

she's gone - out to her mom's house. said she can't bear it - can't take not contacting him. What do I do to get her back w/o being spineless and too needy (which she already accuses me of being!)

I was working plan a unknowingly - I exposed it to her friends, her family, her mom, her bro and sis-in-law, my parents & family, etc. All were pressuring her to wake up, slow down, and get counseling.

She says she'll stay in counseling - we're seeing the same counselor but separately - isn't interested in attending with me - says she already knows how bad she hurt me and just needs to resolve why she could feel so strongly for another man, and why had she supressed all the unhappy feelings she had had with me for years... fog talk, I know - but it still hurts. Her next appointment is Wed.

Any suggestions? The letter in the book for officially starting plan B?

FL, first off, you should expose the affair. Expose it to her family, your family, close friends, your pastor and his wife, if any. This will help wake her up from this fantasy infatuation when she is forced to explain herself and see how sleazy she looks through the eyes of others.

Confront the OM and ask him what his intentions are with your wife and let him know you will fight for your marriage. Allow him to put a face to your name.

Her mother especially should be told the truth so she doesn't accommodate her affair.

Secondly, I would take steps to protect your finances because she could very well plunder your assets.

CANCEL her cell phone if she using this to run up high bills talking to the OM.

In the meantime, follow Plan A and do your best to disrupt the affair without lovebusting. If she will come home, I would let her do it.

Here is a good outline of Plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

This is very probably a lie, I am sorry to say. It always is.

I would also suggest that you sit your children down and tell them the truth. If you don't, your W will lie to them which will cause them great harm. Kids can deal with the truth, they cant deal with lies. It will give you an opportunity to give them some much needed moral guidance and protect them from the possibility of being dragged into her affair with an introduction to the OM. if they know the truth, they can defend themselves against this.

The thing about the A is that it is a lot of fun when there are no consequences. You have now given her consequences. I applaud you for kicking her out. You have just given her a cold slap of reality. Yes you probably should go to Plan A but I suggest you do it with a very clear set of boundary conditions of your chosing. Basically "my way or the highway". You should also make one of your conditions MC.

Expose her to the world. Expose OM. Don't worry about making her angry, Don't worry about embarrassing her. Somebody siad exposure should be like scorched earth. Somebody was right. Don't worry about losing her - you already did that. Don't fear anything because you have nothing to fear (voice of experience).

The worst thing you can do right now is nothing.

OM is 26, lives at home w/ his mom, and works part time. When I found out, and after she told me the second time that she had contacted him again, I called and left him a message. Basically that he WAS destroying a marriage, that WW DID have a husband dedicated to her, that she was LOVED, that there were 3 kids involved, etc. When she tried to see him later that night (last wed) he refused - said he didn't want to get between her and me. That's why she went to see him at work. He wouldn't return her calls.

financial cutoff will hurt WW. Piss her off definitely. She is definitely a material girl. Drive her away? who knows.

This hurts so bad - I've never been hurt this badly before. Losing my wife like this - and trying to be strong to avoid driving her farther away - is killing me.

You haven't lost anybody yet. That's why you are here.

My WW fell for a swimming instructor younger than her. She was ready to abandon her kids for the guy and fly off to another country.

I came to MB. Long story short - she is with us still. OM is ancient history. I exposed her to the bone. She is still here. I pissed her off to no end. She screamed/ranted/raved. She's still here.

I advise you to avoid further contact with OM. That is always an unknown with too many variables. OM is not your problem. Don't put down OM in front of your WW. WW loves him. She will defend him. Focus on your problem. OM is not it. WW's contact with OM is your problem.

I know it is hard to react when your world is turned upside down. Do it anyway. Get up and get moving.

If WW gets mad, don't apologize. It sounds like she doesn't respect you very much. Make her learn.

Just to add - WW is still with us 2 years after-the-fact and shows no signs of leaving.

FL,

I wanted to pass along something else that occurred to me when I reread the title of your post.

When I first started this whole process shortly after Dday (took a few months to find this site), I was as timid as timid can get. I was so afraid of any tiny misstep. I used to think of MB as a tightrope - one loss of balance and you were on the tarmac. Looking back I now see this plan as wide as the Sydney Harbour bridge. It is really hard to make a misstep that is unrecoverable. (it has guard rails too) I also believe now that whether your WW leaves you, stays with you, or leaves and then comes back to you depends much more on her than you. Her makeup will determine what actions she takes and it is all beyond your control.

There are smarter people here who can and will give you much better guidance. All I want to tell you is that you have absolutely nothing to be afraid of. Or as FDR said in his first inaugural address...

My personal favorite is the quote from the great German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (as cited in "Slap her, she's French") who said: "That which doesn't kill us is about to wish it had because we're about to FedEx his sorry [censored] back to Losersville where he came from" (your OM, of course).

So, in short, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid of losing your WW. You can't control that. Don't be afraid of action. Do have a plan. The only bad thing you can do right now is nothing. Quick, decisive action on your part will give you a great chance to save your M. Women don't fall in love like that. WW is not in love with OM - she only thinks she is. WW is in love with the A. Take the "prettiness" away from the A. Make it ugly. Expose it. Think of the affair like jock itch. Get it out into the sun and dry it up. Okay - bad analogy. I'll work on it.

pio - the jock itch analogy made me laugh - for the first time in several weeks. Thank you for that.

I will continue working to expose her affair. I will continue digging to find whether its gone P or just E as she has said.

I will continue to maintain my male role in my home, welcoming her home on terms of working on our marriage, nothing less.

I will get through this. I can get through this. This is making me a better man, for a better future, hopefully w/same W, but as you said - that's really her choice not mine.

I just thought of some other folks to call this morning... here comes sunlight round two!

FL,I would do all the exposing in one day if you possibly can. The SOONER THE BETTER. That way it hits in one fell swoop and is harder to recover.

Start with her mother, and then move to the OM's mother. You might even drive to his house and knock on the door. That will shake up that little bast***. Maybe you will luck out and he is there. Steve Harley counseled a man once to pay a visit to the OM and face him and ask him what his intentions are for his wife. It scared him to death and he dumped his wife. I suspect this little weasel will be just as cowardly.


Drive her away where? Isn't she already gone? You should not be financing her affair. Cut her money off and let her see what it will be like SINGLE. Its ok if she gets mad, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid making her mad.

I have always thought OM is so impersonal. Let's start referring to yours a "JI".

ML is right. What is the worst thing that could have happened? You wife leaves you. Guess what? She did. You're still here. So you have survived the absolute worst.

Now. Regardless of how you feel about WW at this moment, this JI is attacking your children. What are you going to do about it?

FLB:

Sorry you have to be here.

But you are in the right place.

Ever wanted to be a knight in shining armour?

Now's your chance.

And four hours to "talk" in the car?

That has physical all over that.

Turn off her cell phone.

Get His Needs, Her Needs (HNHN) off of this Website, Today! And you will start making a difference immediatly.

Your W was ripe for an A. HNHN will describe how your M got to that point. JI just happened to be the "one" It could have been anyone else.

So, It took you 19 years of M to get here. It will not change overnight. Remember there are milestones in this journey. You will recognize the milestones on the trip out, you will see them on the trip back. We can help you chart them and recognize them.

LG

FL_Blindsided,


Mmmmmmm! How attractive is that? What a man!

And she is a material girl? hmmm Not much material in that package!


Expose to anyone and everyone you can think of!
Tell your kids the truth as part of your exposure! They can handle it and they deserve it!
Do not finance (enable) this A! Cut off the cash flow. Shut off the cell phone.
Work on yourself and take good care of your kids.
CLARIFY YOUR BOUNDRIES!
MC and NC a must for her to return home.
Make sure she is aware of your boundries and can see the path home. For this you will probably need to put it in writing. (Plan B letter?)

You have gotten some really great advise here from the others!
My prayers are with you.

BTW, to answer your question

*HELP - did I do the wrong thing?*

The answer is (IMHO) ABSOLUTELY NOT! SHE DID! You are only protecting your family!
That is not weak or spineless, That my friend is strong and attractive! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

MyBad
---------------
Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.

FL, to MyBad's point, if you cut off the money she will be FORCED TO FACE the fact that this boy cannot support her lifestyle. That little FACTOID will be staring her right in the face. That will take all the fun out of the affair!!

And please do tell the boy's momma that he is being bad. If my son - aged 25 - ever behaved so trashy, there would be he11 to pay. And this sounds like a mommas boy if he lives with hims' mommy. HOW CUTE. I think you could cause him HUGE TROUBLE if you drove over there and had a little chat with da' momma. His momma might tell him to behave. I know I would!

FL,

I had he!! getting my WW to maintain NC. She would buy prepaid phone cards. I ended up taking all her credit cards and all her cash. I used to give her a fixed amount of cash each week and made her justify all expenses with receipts. Unfortunately she got creative with cash expenses such as the maid. I caught that too. She went without one penny in her purse for six months. She maintained NC because she didn't have any money to cheat. I can't begin to tell you how bad that made ME feel. Later on I came to find little stashes of just enough cash to buy a phone card hidden around the house. Kind of like an alcoholic hiding bottles. It was seriously pathetic. My WW quit her A because she couldn't finance it. Funny thing is OM could have supported her habit. He didn't want to spend his money on her. One thing I have noticed about nearly all affairs - they cost money.

FL is a no fault divorce state... my understanding is that if I contest, it will delay and cost me more, but eventually if she pushes it she will get out - regardless of whether I agree or not.

the no fault rule also apparently applies to alimony and child support... so with that said, is there any value in hiring a PI to get proof of a PA?

Whoa Dude!!

Who's talking about divorce?? Who is talking about a PI?

I would do the stop by OM's apt and ask what his intentions are. And if he is not there have a cup of tea with his mother.

Do the exposure thang.

Do nothing rash for the 1st three months. Rash as in filing for divorce, kicking her out....oops,,hmmmm, anyway to get her to move back in?

CUT OFF THE $$$$$

It is much easier to plan A, keep track of her, and sleep at night if she is back living with you.

I'm no expert on divorces. A lawyer in your state will tell you if a PA will give you more rights in a divorce. Somehow I doubt it will.

I saw this yesterday in your post and almost commented then. Are you obsessing over whether it is a PA or not? If so, you just need to let it go. It doesn't matter (except that in the case of a PA you need to get tested for STD's). Whether it is EA or PA, the "A" is the operative word.

In many cases, an EA is even more devastating than a PA. Ask yourself why this knowledge is important to you. Unless it will give you specific legal rights, you need to stop thinking about it.

All - this is the wakeup letter I sent to her in January, after realizing that I hadn't been happy, was not making her happy, and was rededicating myself to our marriage. Three days after I sent this to her, I entered some intensive counseling to deal with some ongoing anger issues, as well as general stress management.

I also came very close to an EA myself, which I have since admitted and discussed with her. Mine was more of an infatuation - the person I was attracted to wasn't even aware of it, and when I brought it up she gave me a real big smack in the face of cold reality... what scared me back to consciousness was the realization that I COULD have fallen into an A and given up my family, a wife of 18+ years, all that we had done together, etc.

This seems to be at the crux of her issue. I believe that she took this as a 'get out of jail' card, and started looking.

Thoughts? Repair strategy? HELP!!! (BTW - Lauren is our troubled 17 yr old daughter...)

**********************

To R, my Wife of (almost) eighteen years:

You were my girlfriend long before we were married or started a family; and my wife before we had children.

I don’t know even how to begin this letter, if you’ll ever see it, or when.

First and before I go any further, I want to be clear in telling you that I love you. In our entire relationship I have never been unfaithful to you. You have been the focal point of my life, and providing for you (financially, emotionally, physically) is what I live to do. That’s what I was made by God to do, and I am most happy doing it.

I am first to admit that I am responsible for where we are now. Focusing on a being a guy and not a husband, I haven’t been the most supportive or involved in our relationship or our family. I’m not sure how much more I could have given or what exactly else I could have done, but I know it could have been more, had I just focused on it. I am the one that gets irrational with my expectations for the kids and sometimes for us as well, and I know that that’s not fair for you or us.

As a guy, I’ve focused on providing the income but none of the other stuff. I need to work on being a husband and providing more of the ‘other stuff’ – help with the kids, emotional support, etc.

One of the good things about being out on the road and in NC is it gives me a lot of time alone to think – and I think I know why I get so angry with Lauren. Part of it is truly disappointment in her choices and decisions, but much more of it is anger with her for creating stress in our relationship. It’s almost as if when we are good – our relationship is working and we’re on great terms – she chooses that moment to mess stuff up. And I resent her for that. And I know that when I get angry with her, it only pushes us further apart.

Before I get into the things that worry me about where we are headed, I want you to know that I don’t blame you – at best, it’s both our faults that we are where we are, at worst – it’s me. So please don’t take this as an attack on you – I am just trying to express my fears and concerns as I see them.

I need to explain that from my perspective, our relationship is headed into trouble. For the past several months (six? eight?) I’ve felt like we’ve drifted further and further apart. Whether it’s been due to disagreements over how to handle kids (Lauren’s situations particularly), general parenting (turning a blind eye and thereby endorsing underage drinking/whatever), our relationship hasn’t been first in our home for a long time. There have been some fantastic moments in there – but there’s been a lot more grief than good.

I’ve tried to express to you my concerns indirectly and directly, but just don’t seem to be getting any attention. We’ve talked about how our relationship needs to come first, and that everything else (my work commitments, our parenting relationship with our children, your volunteerism, our outside friends) is all secondary and needs to be sustained by OUR RELATIONSHIP. I know that it takes two to make it work, and one alone can’t do it. There’ve been times where I’ve been the one that hasn’t placed our relationship first.

I’ve brought you a book (the Dr. Laura book on husbands) and started discussions to try and explain my perspective and what it seems like we needed. I thought if I was able to get you to see a little (just a little!) of my perspective it might help our communications and understanding of each others’ needs. From your reactions and refusal to read it or even discuss, it was almost like you felt I was trying to insult you! (How much effort did you really put into doing something I asked you to do – for me? I even attempted to read it to you!)

I’ve asked about what you need – what I can do to help and I believe I have tried to do all of it (last Saturday night excepted). I do everything I can to get everything you ask done when I’m home – regardless of how physically or mentally wiped I am, because I know that stuff is important to you. I try to do everything I can to stay connected to the kids – to help (even remotely!) with their stuff to try and help with that responsibility as well…

I’ve tried to get you to understand my point of view through direct conversations, such as in November when we talked about how I didn’t feel appreciated, and felt taken for granted in our home and relationship. I didn’t seem able to make my point then, and am not sure if you understand it even now…

In early December, I expressed my concerns when I was feeling hopeless over our Christmas situation, the amount of money that was getting spent, and how it just didn’t seem like enough… And in looking back, I remember arguing over it, but nothing came of it other than spending more money. Our struggles to attend the Financial Peace class were to me another example of how far we’ve drifted apart… my hope for that class was to allow you the opportunity to learn more about money, and hopefully allow you the opportunity to learn and become more comfortable with our financial matters… but I’m not sure how successful we were there either. It is important to me that you learn this stuff, so that in the event anything was to happen to me, you’d be able to take care of the kids and yourself.

Somewhere between Christmas and New Years, I came to a very painful realization that I was no longer happy. I don’t know if it was just the holidays, being around people having a good time on New Years or what, but since New Years’ day things have just felt ‘off’.

This past weekend was very difficult for me – in fact the whole week was tough. I’m drinking more (a bad deal!) and find myself even considering ‘checking out’ – just taking off and disappearing for a couple of weeks. I don’t know if it’s stress related, I just know that I’m not happy. I’ve never had thoughts like this before, feel incredibly confused and am seeking guidance on what it all means… (That’s what my counseling appointment is primarily going to address I hope – my recent thoughts of taking off…) Regardless of what’s going on, know that I’m still here.

My drinking is a bad deal – when I drink and am in a bad mood, I get ugly, and that’s not me. My behavior last Saturday night is a perfect example. I’ve apologized for that and will do my best never to behave that way again. Again – that’s not me. (In 20 years of knowing me you hopefully realize that.)

Work has been incredibly stressful over the past 3 months – more so than I ever would have thought in looking back over it. It has had an impact on me and on our relationship as well – but I don’t think that work alone is to blame. (It’s almost like a fire that gets started, and once started you can’t put it out- it just keeps feeding and getting bigger… I get all involved in work, it creates stress at home or with you over my hours or my travel, and I avoid dealing with us by working/traveling even more…)

I’m ashamed to say that I’ve actually been looking forward to being out of town rather than being home, in that at least when I’m gone I don’t have to justify our lack of emotional connection any more. When I’m up here in Cary, I tell myself that it’s just because we’re apart… but when I’m home, it’s still bad and it’s difficult to be there.

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking of separation – maybe just staying here in NC for a couple of months. Hoping to allow things to settle down and for us both to figure out what’s most important in each of our lives. I can’t stand the thought of not being there with you and the kids. I know that that wouldn’t do anything positive to help us or our relationship.

I’ve thought a lot over the past three weeks about love and whether or not we’re still in love… people fall out of love every day, right? I believe that this is one of those rocky points in our life where we’ll either choose to make it, or we’ll walk away… I’ve decided I want to make it. I want to reestablish that loving, caring, emotional bond with you. I miss not only the physical component of our relationship – but also the emotional one. I’ve really felt alone in the past couple of months – and not just due to all of the travel – and I know that’s not what I want.

I believe that right now in our relationship is a turning point – and we can choose to continue together or find our ways separately. I believe that we can make it, that I can be a better man through my relationship with you, and that we together are better than us separate. I need to know that you feel the same way. I need to know that you are better with than without me.

Like I’ve said earlier, I feel like I’ve been trying to carry this relationship on my back for the past bazillion months. I know you are probably angry that I said that, but its how I feel. I’m the one that’s been trying to express my feelings over where we’re headed, I’m the one that’s been trying to establish some communications regarding our relationship, but it seems to go nowhere. A perfect example was the weekend you went to your brother's, got drunk and stayed out all night after I’d been gone for close to two weeks straight… it seems to me that you should rather be with your husband than your brother and his friends, regardless of how long I’d been gone, how much you needed some time out or whatever.

I need to know that you love me first and foremost; that I am the reason you get up in the morning, get the kids off to school, cook, clean, and do everything you can to make our house a home for the kids, but primarily for me. I need to feel like I’m the most important thing in your life again. If I’m not or won’t be, please let me know now.

I remember times when we were happy together – when I couldn’t wait to get home from work, regardless of how long I had to work or where I was coming from, and kiss you and hold you. It seems like such a long time ago now… But know that I do want those times back. I want to be your husband first, the father of your children second, and provider last. Somewhere in the past couple of years, that’s become reversed. I need to be first – I deserve to be first.

I hope that this letters’ rambling didn’t stray too far from its core message – I love you, I miss you and our relationship, and I want to re-establish that husband-wife bond that we used to have.

It’s not meant to assign blame – if anyone is at fault, it would be me (I’m the one that’s gone all the time), but I honestly believe that no one is at fault for where we are now. I don’t expect guilt or remorse – I only want your love. Please let me know how you feel – and I truly hope it’s to love me and be with me forever.

I love you and will see you in a couple of hours. I’m off to see a client, then I’ll be on the road around 1:30 or 2pm. I won’t have email, but if you want to talk, please call me.

Your Husband,