I would tell her that marriage does not involve outsiders. You want to remain married to her and you want to keep your family intact. There is no place in your marriage for any OM. If she wants to continue with OM, she needs to make a choice. That choice will NOT include remaining under your roof. Let her make the choice to leave or cut off OM. Don't go to Plan B by forcing her out just yet. You need some serious Plan A time. This is the only opportunity you have to do that. You canNOT Plan A if she is out of the house.

I installed some keylogging software, and found today that between 7am and 10:30 she had traded something like 30 emails with him. She's lying to me, sat at breakfast this morning and told me to my face that she's dedicated to working on this independent of OM.

She's lying constantly - hasn't broken contact at all.

I'm hurt. I'm crushed. And I have to lay in bed next to this woman that holds my heart in her hands every night, that I know is having sex with another man, etc.

So what are you going to do about. She lied about everything to get back into your home and cake eat. What's the consequences for her?

that's where I'm lost...

she's at her counselors appt now - I'm sure she's not telling her the truth either...

do I hold the line, tell her to go, or keep her in the house and work my plan A?

If she's continuing to see him, how can she be affected by the plan A?

FL,

Don't knee-jerk. I was in this same position. WW lied to me, lied to MC, lied to IC, lied to everyone.

Plan A is exactly what you are in while she is seeing OM. Plan A does NOT predicate itself on the A being over nor does it require NC. NC is a goal - not a prerequisite.

Many people will say you should not be a doormat. I agree. Sort of. But let's look at the facts differently.

Ahe says she wanst to work on the M. What was it again that is keeping her from just backing up and leaving your house? Why is she even in your house? She left didn't she? And then came back? Why do you think she did that? The A is an addiction. Maybe she really does want the M but simply cannot give up OM? This is what happened to my WW. It got to the point where she could not rationalize it any more.

Great you got a keylogger. Do NOT let WW you know about the emails. If you confront her, she'll stop emailing and just find another way to communicate - one that you won't find. I would try to glean info from the emails about a planned meeting. I would then have a friend accidentally be at that meeting and have him/her approach WW and talk to her so she knew she was busted. I wouldn't go myself (unless I didn't actually have any friends). It's sad but funny how they react. I would email everyone about how friend caught WW. It is OKAY to lie to your WW right now. Protect your assets. Don't confront WW in the heat of anger.

Plan A is exactly what you need. Every day she is still with you is another day you can show her how much you love her and how much you are willing to change for her. I know all too well the inner turmoil this creates. It takes a strong person to deal with this.

I think what you should do is set a mental date. Decide how long you will continue to allow this before you go to Plan B. I hear six months is about a good target but mileage varies by conditions. Withdrawal is hard. WW is addicted. It is a chemical reaction in the brain. Seeing OM causes WW's brain to get a natural high. She is doing this because she is a weak person and can't break the addiction.

So catch her. Be ever vigilant. Expose when you catch her in the act. It is very possible that she is dying inside. She knows what she is doing is wrong. She knows OM is no future for her. She wants to blame anyone but herself for her actions. We BS's think WW's and OM's spend their entire time together laughing at us. That isn't what really happens.

So...step up your Plan A. Make whatever impression you want to. If she does leave, let her leave with a lasting impression of the great you - not the one you wrote about in the letter. Don't obsess about and dwell on OM. He is a loser. WW already knows this. I think there comes a point with some WW's that they continue the A almost as a form of self-punishment.

One other thing. Doormat. To me, doormat is when WW says "hey you watch the kids - I'm going to get laid at OM's house - don't wait up". Your WW is not aware that you are on to her. She is not treating you like a doormat. She is trying to respect your feelings albeit in a twisted and perverse way. I hope she is lying to IC because this would tell me that the A is dying. WW is trying to be a W but she just doesn't know how and her hormones are clouding her vision.

There do need to be consequences to her actions. I totally agree. Don't make idle threats. So, for the moment, I suggest you don't try to bring this to a confrontation. You need more Plan A time. You also need to work to catch her in the obvious lie and expose it. I promise you her time with OM is not all wine and roses. Not now. Not since you exposed her.

I have told you repeatedly that this is the hard part.That's okay. This is where you will gain her respect. I think your Plan A needs to be on top form right now. She is comparing you to OM. His stock is going down. What does your forecast look like?

Now that I am back from my 3:00AM ice-buying trip, I want to add one more thing regarding the case for patience.

I have to admit I do get annoyed when I hear people casually throwing out doormat/cake-eating so let's keep it in that context for a moment.

I have read that, for many people, affairs require compartmentalization. I tend to believe that. Most people could not do such an unnatural thing without that ability. We all compartmentalize to one degree or another. Most of us behave differently at work than we do at home, for example.

So let's say your WW was able to compartmentalize her A. That is necessary to maintain one's sanity. As long as you can keep those two worlds apart, your brain maintains the peace. The M and the A are like matter and anti-matter. Each is perfectly fine on its own but bring the two together and you get destruction.

You WW had convinced herself that the A was right and good and perfectly allowable. When she got home to you, she checked the A at the door and became housewife again. She eventually achieved a steady state condition or status quo.

Now she is exposed. Now her world no longer makes any sense. Everything she had so neatly lined up is all a shambles. Now she is trying to pick up the pieces. She is now faced with a jigsaw puzzle that can't be solved but she hasn't figured that out yet.

What I mean is that she now has to reprogram her brain to find a way to make it right to allow BS and OM to coexist in the same space. I am willing to bet that it is tearing her up inside this struggle. I bet she is twisting this Rubik's cube every which way night and day trying to solve it. Problem is this one can't be solved. Steady state is gone. She is now in a turbulent transient with now light at the end of the tunnel. I bet she is on her way to a nervous breakdown which is one of only two viable outcomes to her ordeal.

In short, time is helping you and it is destroying her and her A.

The other outcome is she simply snaps. She loses all touch with reality and everything she once believed about God, morals, marriage, etc. is just gone out the window. If that happens, you will be running to your divorce lawyer.

OM was the good guy in her life. He is now becoming the bad guy. He will pressure her. He will fight with her. She will lose her love for him. And you will be the white knight if you have a good Plan A.

I stopped my WW's A before it died. Looking back, I wish I had let it die on its own. Things would be far easier now, I think.

Just keep fighting for your family. Keep your happy thought.

I just wanted to add...

It took about 6 months to finally establish NC. Whenever caught, my WW would find new ways to maintain contact. It was during this six month period when I really saw her come apart. When I confronted her with undeniable facts to refute her beliefs about OM, I would see her go into brain lock. During this time period, there were occasions when the voice coming out of her mouth was unknown. I was actually scared during these times. Not for my safety - but that WW would go insane. To an extent I think she was insane. She finally pulled herself out of it but it was a struggle.

Pijoitos:

I don't think I could disagree any more with you here. Your definition of doormat is certainly different than mine. But I have to seriously question what in the he** you are thinking when you infer that somehow a WS who is knowingly repeatedly betraying a BS in an ACTIVE and WILLFUL way is somehow respecting them and NOT treating them like a doormat.

In some ways, I would have MORE respect for a WS who throws it out there and says "watch the kids while I get laid"......over a WS who lies wilfully, mainupulates and conducts on going affairs under the guise of "trying to work it out". At least you know what you are getting there. I think you are sorely misguided here....but that is just my opinion.

Doormats...shmoormats...It is all the same.

LM

Well I asked you this question before and never did get that answer. You said you would think about it.

Your definition of Plan A is do it as long as WW is being faithful. You are wrong. Recovery is when WW is being faithful.

If everyone followed your Plan A, there would be very few recovered marraiges. Your views are slanted. Reading your story, I canu nderstand why.

You seem to entirely circumvent the concept of withdrawal. I appreciate the fact that your are pessimistic at every turn. I just don't always see it as productive.

Yes I remember I got the doormat speech from you. Seems to be your favorite buzzword.

Pios - you were wrong about them getting together and making fun of me. You should read some of her emails...

Yes - she's lying to counselor, and to me, and not too surprisingly to OM as well. She said in an email to him tonite that she thinks I'm starting to come around to the concept of us being 'over'... couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm actually contemplating taking a leave of absence from work - when I told her that she freaked out - really - freaked out... told me how bad that would be, how I needed work to keep my life together, how she couldn't handle me being in the house for 8 hrs/day, etc etc etc... all the stuff you'd expect to hear from a WW that's trying to continue an A...

I can't wait to see what she writes him tomorrow. In her last email, she was making beach plans with him for next week, and hooking up @ my daughter's HS graduation on Monday. My oldest daughter's ceremony is on Monday, and they were talking about meeting in a stairway, yeah - like thats romantic!

Gosh, with me not having to work and all, I guess I can come along to the beach too!

this is killing me!!

I think you misunderstand. We think they make fun of us. We imagine worse things than really are.

So now you have some intel. Great. Have her caught. Get photos.

So your WW says it is all over with you. What did I say? Don't listen to anything coming out of her mouth. What do you expect her to tell OM? Keyloggers are a double-edged sword. They are good about telling you what she is going to do with OM. They are not a diary. They do not and cannot give you insights into the mind of WW.

All the while my WW was in MC and IC and telling us all that OM was history, the two were planning how she would leave us and go live with him - how she would like to get a job and how they would live happily ever after. It IS the fantasy. The A is a fantasy and their conversation is all about perpetuating that fantasy. The A feels good. She doesn't want it to end. But it will. One way or the other.

Stop trying to analysze everything she tells OM. It is a distraction and nothing more. Continue with exposure. Make the A ugly to her. Finding her and OM in a stairwell? Imagine her mother/best friend/pastor finding her there. Imagine her IC finding her there. This is not a problem dude - this is an opportunity.

I have been in your shoes. You are not out of this fight but you have to cut the A off. You have to kill it. Also, based on what you wrote in your letter to WW, I still think you need some serious time in the saddle of Plan A.

so suck it up, be nice, no LB's, and lots of 'nice me'...

right?

I surprised her big time tonite... I took her to her fave restaurant and then to a dance lesson. She had a good time, and asked if we could sign up for more.

I guess thats a good thing, unless she's planning on using these new steps on a cruise w her new man...

That is one of the results of Plan A but not the intent of Plan A. But yes you are essentially right. And it sucks. And you will not be able to do that forever. The longer you do this, the less you will love your WW. That is why the time for Plan A is now while you still do care for her.

You are not responsible for the A. You do acknowledge that there were things you should have done differently. Make those changes. You cannot control your WW. Her choices are hers. Tha A is a fantasty. She lives that fantasy in her mind. Don't read too much into her emails.

pios - don't you sleep? what time zone are u in?

I am at GMT +3 hours. Don't you sleep? I know I didn't when I was where you are at now.

Look, in deference to LM, I can't promise you that your WW will end the A. I am telling you that 1) you need to fight for your kids, 2) based on what you wrote, if your WW does leave, it would be better to leave her with a positive impression. I also know that fantasy affairs are like a giant soap bubble. They pop very quickly and leave no trace of their "beauty" but rather a big slimy mess.

In SAA, Dr. Harley told Jon to stay in Plan A for six months even though Sue was still seeing Greg. Jon saved his marriage AFAIK.

You do NOT want to be a doormat. You do deserve respect. Continue to expose WW. Every infraction. Expose it. Let her get caught. Neither she nor OM will like it much. The fact that she wants to conduct her A near your kids would simply piss me off. My WW did that and, when I found out, she never repeated it.

got home, checked email logs, looks like she got dumped today. Also saw in the emails that she was admitting how it started all about the 'great sex' - but she was getting emotionally attached.

So its been a good day and a bad day.

I am working my plan a.

She hates me (as expected). From what I can tell, a lot of it was the stress I was causing in his life. I folowed him home, sat in front of his house while he parked in the garage and rolled the door down really quick. I think that freaked him out.

If I see/hear anything else, I'll tell his boss, his mom, etc. So far I've only put pressure on WW side (friends, family, etc). I should have paid better attention and turned up the heat under him earlier.

FL,

If she got dumped, she will be really depressed. Give her some space. Don't try to force things out of her.

I will repeat and repeat - don't put too much faith in what you read in the emails. My WW also gave the great sex dialogue. Now that the A is over, she can't see any difference. The sex was great because it was exciting. It was exciting because of the risks she was taking.

Be careful stalking OM. You can get arrested for that. As long as WW got dumped, just keep watching to see that she stays dumped. If it is a permanent dumping, then her A is dead the natural way. This will greatly aid you in marital recovery.



Absolutely you should have. Don't make that mistake again. Just don't break the law in the process.

Now it is more important than ever that you work your Plan A. Plan A is about you and making you the better person you know you need to be. Give your WW a little time to grieve the loss of her newly lost lover and then discuss and agree on a strategy for moving forward - like MC/IC, phone call to the Harleys. Just don't shove it in her face.

So, in short, be patient. Small steps. Don't expect an overnight miracle.

she's still saying all the hurtful things:

She says she doesn't want to hurt me, but doesn't want to work on us anymore. Doesn't want to put forth the EFFORT to make us good. (I guess she just doesn't see the value in saving what we have, as opposed to spending it in court on lawyers.)

She says we were never good. I know she's still in fog, and that she's comparing her revised memories of me to most recent ones of him, but this hurts bad.

She says that everyone can see that she's over me. Why can't I?

She's going to get a job (good and bad here). Says she's too dependent on me, and can't depend on me ever again. The good is it'll give her something to do to keep her busy, the bad is the additional distance/space it'll allow her to build between us. Also - I'm concerned that she'll use that space to reestablish contact or meet someone else... (just can't trust yet...)

She's stated she doesn't want to spend any more time with me than necessary. Just to get through the day, passing in the hall or bathroom is all she wants. She won't do the 15 hr deal she agreed to when she came back on mothers day...

She won't talk or even consider MC now - says this is her issue, not ours. (Back to where we were on DDay.)

FL,

She sounds just like my WW. Almost verbatim. Be patient. This is a woman who had psyched herself up to leaving you a day or two ago. What do you expect right now? Don't listen to the fog talk. Ignore it. Stay with your Plan A. Don't push her. Let her get through the withdrawal (and that means NC).

I know the things she says hurt. That is her intention. Don't let her win. Time is on the side of the M. The longer she is with you, the more likely she will stay with you. Withdrawal can take months. It might help her to get on ADs.

If she does ultimately leave, remember that you have no control over that. But when she leaves, you want to be able to remember that you did everything in your power to save the M.

I don't know you or your W. All I know is my WW did and said pretty much the exact same things your WW is saying right now. Today she no longer believes them.

I was going to mention, if you do plan on parking outside OM's house much more, you should investigate getting a PI license. One of the things a PI can do that you cannot is loiter legally.

absolutely amazing change in her from this morning to this afternoon...

I can't believe how quickly her emotions are cycling - almost like watching something out of a horror movie.

Morning - aloof, self confident. I'm the idiot.
Afternoon - shell shocked, blank look in eyes, looks like she's about to cry every time I catch her sitting doing nothing. I'm the ****** that did this to her.

I hope OM stays away. She's so vulnerable right now. I bet if he asked her to just get up and walk out the door with him, she'd do it w/o a second thought.

God, just give me time! Grant me the patience to accept my lot right now, the strength to be a man and not lose my cool, and the wisdom to keep the long-term view.