That's because that isn't plan A. So if you kick a dog and every time you kick it, it bites you, what lessons can you take away from that? Get a cat? Oh...wait!...I know!...STOP KICKING THE DOG!

It is hard to plan A with her out. So write up a really good Plan B letter. Post it here so ML and believer can fix your mistakes and then go to Plan B. I can't help with Plan B letters. History has shown that I'm lousy at them. I pretty much always neded up with your JB letter. Not pretty.

I was looking at my original thread yesterday. The very first person ever to post to me on MB told me I was wasting my time trying to save my M. I had to laugh.

Here was my plan B letter I gave her the day before Mothers day... only to find out subsequently that she continued talking with him actively (she called him Mothers day Morning while I was in the shower...) So this didn't work so well before.

This got me squat before... only delayed and covered her affair a little longer.

Looking for any/all feedback for Plan B, round 2...

***********************************************

To R***, my Wife of over eighteen years, and partner in life for over twenty:

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with M*** possible. I foolishly went after my career with all my attention, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there when you needed me the most, and now we (along with our entire family, as well as friends) are suffering for this mistake.

I am willing to avoid these mistakes I’ve made in the past and create a new and better life for both of us that will meet your needs. I know you feel as if this desire to leave our marriage and pursue Matt is something inside of ‘you’ and you alone, that it’s something that only ‘you’ can figure out, but I know I share in the blame for this situation. Please allow me to accept part of that burden. But I cannot begin to work on us until you completely end your relationship with M***, once and for all. Emails, texts, phone calls, secret meetings, everything.

What you did last night absolutely floored me. Not only did you have the nerve to bring your boyfriend to your mom’s house, you lied to me throughout the day and evening to cover it up. I have been praying for a sign from God that would indicate your heart’s intent with our relationship, and I feel as if this event was it. And to further add injury, you went so far as to blame me for it – as if I am the one in the wrong here. You actually called me a liar for saying I was at home when I was watching your mom’s house. I told you before – I am dedicated to saving this marriage, and checking up on you is a necessary part of that. Unfortunately, I cannot continue as we have been for the past weeks.

Until you terminate all contact with M***, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Please do not call me. If you need to communicate something to me, please do it through email. If it’s an emergency or something that needs immediate attention, please have someone else call. I will not answer calls from you or your mom’s house any more.


I will also not be able to help you financially. I have opened separate checking and savings accounts in my name only. I will share access to those funds with you when you recommit to our marriage. Be assured that I am being wise with this money, and not wasting it in any way. My purpose is not to punish you, but not to fund your selfish misadventure. I am also responsible for all of our expenses in maintaining this household. Please be careful with the remaining money in this account – that is all I’m leaving you. After the mortgage payment, utilities and college tuition post, there will be approximately $600 remaining in our joint checking account.

I am also terminating your cellphone this afternoon. If you wish, go open another in your name and on your credit only. I cannot stand the thought of you using OUR money to continue this adultery and pursue an affair with M***.

I will work with you to ensure that you can visit the children whenever you like, but I will not be here when you visit. If you would like to communicate about the children, please do it via email, not telephone, cellphone or texting. Please let me know your schedules, and I will share mine such that we can avoid all contact and make sure to avoid any conflicts. The children have been traumatized enough by your bad decisions, and don’t need any more grief now.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I’ve endured as a result of your relationship with M***, and I cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I love you with all my heart, but I can’t see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from M*** and are willing to work together with me to establish some ‘ground rules’ to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want to be able to rebuild and restore our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other’s most important needs so that neither of us will ever have to turn to someone outside of our marriage for support, and purposefully hurt each other as we are now. We need to work to create a lifestyle that works to maintain our happiness, not only with ourselves but with each other. Then there will never be a reason for us to separate or hurt one another as we have hurt each other recently. I want to be your best friend again – someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be that person in my life as well.

I loved you with all my heart when we were married, and I don’t know how, but I continue to love you up through today, even with these recent events. I finished your Mother’s Day present last night after I got home – despite how much I was hurt by your deception and words. I’ve decided to drop it by your mom’s house along with this letter, rather than just email it. I hope someday you can appreciate the care, love and time this took to put together, and how incredibly difficult it was to finish last night following your continued betrayal. You’ve told me repeatedly how unhappy you’ve been for years, but I cannot see it – and neither can any of your friends. Look through these pictures with an open heart and I’m sure you can see the love that we have had.

I don’t understand it, but I love you more now than ever – and I want for us to be together again as husband and wife. I just can’t do it while you’re continuing to pursue a relationship with M***.

You have repeatedly stated this isn’t about M***, but yet you’ve decided against the judgement and advice of your counselor and your own heart to continue it. You know that what you are doing is wrong, not only morally but emotionally as well to all involved. While you are pursuing a relationship with M***, your focus cannot be on ours.

All of My Love,

I won't make any significant comment other than it is about 10 paragraphs too long.

So more like this?

****************************************************

R****,

I love you, but fear that continuing on in this current manner will cause me to not love you any more. You have to understand how much you mean to me, the kids, and all of our family and friends. We don't want to lose you.

When you are ready to commit to our marriage, please come home. Until then, do not contact me unless it involves the kids. You can leave me voice mails or emails to arrange for the kids' schedules, but please do not contact me for any other reason, until you are ready to commit to us.

Let's give this a month, and plan on getting together on July 1 to see where we stand and discuss what we want to do. I sincerely hope you decide in that time to come home and commit to 'us'. We all love you, miss you and want you back.

Until July 1,
Your faithful devoted husband,
R*****

Okay the length is good.

I don't like the one month deadline. That has to go. What you should do is identify what boundary conditions you want met in order for her to be accepted back. Don't go overboard on the boundaries but definitely identify at least the bare minimum.

Byt telling her you are going to try this for a month places no decision on her whatsoever.

Your Plan B should be indefinite until she is ready to meet those conditions.

But remember that I suck at Plan B letters.

so... finite dates are fine for me to use as mental signposts, but not for use w/ WW?

That's correct. Don't ever show your hole card. You have to have some timeline in mind to preserve your sanity. But you Plan B the WW forever. Now if the WW can decide to try to leave one of those W's behind and return to the M, you will take W back. Don't tell her you love her and will do anything to recover the marriage until 12:01 AM July 17th after which time your offer will be null and void.

When WW says goodbye to OM, he always says he will be there for her until eternity. They all do. It's a lie but sounds great on paper. So you are saying "goodbye" to WW but you will be there for her if she decides to return to the M.

Look at all the Plan B threads here. Most all start with the idea that they want to save the M. But after time, their interest dwindles. Eventually they decide that regardless of what WS does, D is the only answer. That's okay. It's natural. But if you no longer have any love left for your WS prior to getting into Plan B, it is a fruitless exercise.

Plan A. Show WW what a great guy you are. Plan B. Save your love for her and still be that great guy.

found a couple of good songs... really match my mood this week.

Rodney Atkins - If You're Going ...
(and they mention my good ol' buddy jim beam!)

Keith Urban - You'll Think of Me..

Starting to see the other side of the mountain... and it's not so bad...

I survived 2 months alone on "Only Time" by Enya. I had it on replay at the office iTunes. Sometimes I would hear it about 180 times a day.

Songs are powerful. They can really help you keep your focus.

Have had a couple of good days. No LB's, no late night Beam-inspred hate text messages, no name calling.

She is definitely in withdrawal now. Had a long (2+ hr) conversation in the truck last nite, sitting in her mom's driveway. Says she hasn't seen/talked/texted/emailed him or received anything coming back from him in over a week. She may be lying, I have to assume based on experience with this that she is.

She admitted last nite that she never stopped contact each of the previous times she tried to stop... said it was just too hard to stop. It wasn't until after I followed him home and called his mommy that he stopped reciprocating/chasing her. His reason was that it wasn't important enough to get his family involved... (what about my family??) She (as expected) was very bitter for me taking this 'out of her hands' - says that she never had closure. And that she doesn't know if she'll ever be able to find it because of my actions... (I know, fog talk, lets justify another excuse to allow her to see him...)

We talked for a long time -about us, where we are today, where we're headed... I went through the two scenarios as I see them...
1. She completely commits heart and soul to working on our marriage, whatever it takes, modifies actions, choices, values, even friends if necessary to work on it.

2. we start down the path towards divorce and end up hating each other, poor because we gave it all to our attorneys to decide who gets custody, and with resentful children.

Not really a middle ground where we stay where we are today (kinda in limbo) forever... and she realizes that.

So.... I am attempting to work my very best plan A now. Critical here, esp w/her saying that she's out of contact with OM. (Oh, and today's his birthday. Did I mention that he's 23 now?)

Or is now the time to go to a plan B, and leave her feeling all alone?

bump..

any suggestions?

found a note today indicating that she's been giving OM 'space' as she didn't want to 'freak him out' or scare him off... evidently he had told her to stop calling until after she had her stuff figured out...

note was her discussing it with a friend, how she needed 'closure' with him - had to see him again to get that, etc...

I can't divulge that I know she's contemplating breaking NC, so HELP!!! How can I work this to not backfire?? Work a great plan A?? An even better one?

It looks like you are making headway. My position is to avoid Plan B while this thing dies as it looks like it is doing.

As far as her needing closure with OM, that is total crap. That is NOT on the table for discussion.

Big update. It's been a great weekend.

Went to her mom's Fri morning to help her mom clean up a downed tree (pretty bad T-storms came thru here last week) and spent the morning sweating my a$$ off chopping up a tree into manageable pieces...

WW had come out several time to check on me, to see if she could help, etc. When I finished up, she asked if I could come insode and help her with some stuff. Once in, I notice that all her stuff is piled by the door and she asks if she can come home...

We sat down and had a pretty serious discussion re: her mind frame, what I needed as assurances from her re: current situation, and we established some immediate boundaries and conditions, with the understanding that they could change as we moved forward. Long and short, Plan A succeeded, OM started treating her poorly when she didn't immediately run to him 2 weeks prior when she left, and their relationship had run aground. She called him and left him a voicemail stating that they were forever over, that she was back home with me, and she never wanted to see or hear from him again. That she was sorry for getting him into something that was so unstable, but regardless she had made her mind up and come home.

We've had a couple of discussions about the NC letter, but she says she doesn't want any more contact.

She's reset all of her passwords and given them to me (as I have her) for cellphone, email, etc.

Initial conditions are :
1. complete and total honesty.
2. no questionable situations - call immed if anything happens.
3. No contact whatsoever with OM or his group of friends.
4. No secret email accounts - absolutely no secrets whatsoever.

I'm sure more will come as we implement MB priciples in their entirety, but thats where we are for now.

So it's been 3 days here, she's still smiling and is much more willing to discuss our marriage and where we're heading (all good so far). Lots of intimacy (holding hands, kisses, hugs) but no SF. She said she needs some time for that... She still asserts that they never went beyond kissing but we've agreed to have some STD testing done this week (both of us). How long does it usually (if there is anything like usual in these situations) take to restore that level of intimacy after an EA? (poss PA, but will prob never know.)

I'm simply at a total loss. Haven't you ever heard of a chain saw?

Do some research on STD's and the type of testing you really need. You may want to repeat it in a few months too.

LOL - YES - I used a chainsaw. Tree had bigger diam than my wimpy suburban 18" Husquvarna... And man were those logs heavy...

K - I'll check w our phys. in the morning. She's also asked if I'm going off of AD's now that she's home... also is asking if my old position is still available and what I need to do to get it back... dunno if she's still a WW trying to play like she's in deep deep undercover, or if she's truly concerned for me and my wellbeing, both mentally and financially.

Still a little disconcerting that she's bringing up that stuff now, seemingly so soon after returning home. My response was "let's see how these next couple of weeks go" before making any rash changes...

Okay I have a question.

WW asked if she could help you.

She did this several times.

How did you respond each time?

Be totally honest. I have a purpose in asking.

Don't go off the AD's too quickly. Talk to your doctor about a strategy for getting off them.

Your WW may not be totally into the MB plan hook, line and sinker but you do need to learn and practice the four rules. This will help any M - even a recovering one.

D#mn Swedish tools!

1st time she came out, she showed up with a glass of ice water but I was fine, nothing else needed. (I did remember to thank her for the water!)

2nd time, I asked her for a towel to get sawdust out of my face.

3rd time, I asked her to sit outside with me while I took a break.

?

Well. Okay. Why didn't you accept her help? Were you just wanting to impress her with your macho-ness? Or do you generally (pre-A) just like to be left alone to do the "man stuff"?

By asking for water, towels, etc. in my opinion is a common mistake us stupid men make. First, you have clearly put her in her place. She is not capable of doing anything more. At least that is what you are tacitly telling her.

I cut down a lot of tree limbs all year long. I use a Milwaukee chainsaw made in Amurca by Amurcans! I don't dwindle away the American economy like you do! I love my country! I don't turn a blind eye to the devastating effects of globalisation on my friends and neighbors. I'm not willing to throw my country under a bus!

Okay. Deep breath.

Sorry. Got a little sidetracked. Where was I?

Oh, for example, couldn't you have cut some limbs a little smaller and had WW help you haul those away? It would have been a great way to be closer, maybe even have a chance to small talk. But no you Mr. He-man with his badass chainsaw had to have the little missus sit off to the side and admire your manliness all the while demonstrating to her that she is clearly not your equal.

IMVHO this is a silent DJ. Okay not mission critical here but what I am saying is that I think you need to re-examine your interactions with WW and how you will go forward. This is just part of the process. It just got my attention that WW kept asking you if she could help and you dismissed her each time almost like you would a child.

OTOH, I wasn't there. I'm only reading what you wrote. Just replay that day in your mind and ask yourself what you could have done better.