ah... I see what you were getting at. Me not so stoopid after all... (lol)

Her mom had done all the easy stuff earlier in the week, actually WW helped her but complained to me for about 15 mins about how many scratches she got, and how bad they could scar, etc etc. (She's not really the 'outdoorsy' type...) All I had left was about an 8' section of trunk. Not a lot for anyone else to do, other than stand there and watch me sweat (which she did, I was happy to see!)

BTW - whats a DJ?

I'll consider our interactions moving forward, and make sure not to DJ (silent or loudly...) once I figure out what the heck it is!

Disrespectful Judgment

Okay you just put WW squarely in her place. You have already decided what she can and can't do. Why not let her make the decision? If it is bothering her, she is a big girl. She knows when she needs to quit something.

I'm just giving you something to think about. How can you involve WW more in what you do? That's all.

We've probably talked more in the last week (several days leading up to Coming Home Day and thru this weekend) than we had in the past 6 mos. That's pretty pathetic.

I recognize now that I had shut her out of my life almost entirely... I wouldn't take her calls @ work, or when I did I would be a jerk. I wouldn't talk to her about work because I didn't value her opinions. I wouldn't communicate with her unless it was to complain about how much she $$ was spending, or arguments over kids...

Communication is a big one for her, and I shut her down. I took some notes from OM's playbook and started communcating with her... texts, short sweet emails, calls for no reason - 'just to say hey', etc. So when she went NC back on 5/25, and I started my best Plan A, the balance shifted this way.

That (communication) is how I am becoming more connected with WW, and hope to make her a FWW soon...

back to an earlier question - is there a typical time before restoring SF to the relationship? I've told her I'm not pressing the issue, for her to let me know when felt ready, and doing my best continued plan a to fill up that love bank... but how long should I prepare myself to wait?

I'm not aware of any particular timeline. Each case is different.

SF in my case was also not simple. It is not a switch you turn on and off. There is a lot of emotion to deal with on both sides. I remember going through the love phase, anger phase, resentment phase, the "oh well nothing on TV" phase, anger phase (I guess I liked that one), the abstinence phase and now possibly into the intimacy phase.

There is something about being in the middle of SF which so easily hauls up those mental images of WW and OM.

For WW's part, I'm sure she has phases too although my guess is that she probably substitutes the anger phase for something like a shame phase. I bet we pretty much had the other phases in common though.

Another problem is that our phases were out-of-phase. For example, she might be in an intimacy phase while I was in an anger phase. It is really complicated.

I don't view SF as the beginning of the road to recovery. I view it as possibly even an obstacle to recovery in the early stages. But not having SF does NOT mean that you aren't recovering your marriage. One has nothing to do with the other IMO. Certainly a recovered M would include copious amounts of SF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If I see my house phone or WW's GSM humber come up on the ID, I don't care what I am doing or who I am talking to. I may ask people to leave my office or simply wait if I don't think the call will be too long.

The thing is by changing your behavior toward your WW depending on the situation (i.e. at home, work or the mall, etc.) you are compartmentalizing your life. Is your wife any more or less important to you when you are at work as opposed to being some place else? If not, why treat her differently? She is the same person.

Lee Iacocca was a pretty important guy in his company. He had a special phone installed in his office just for his family to call. No matter what he was doing, if that phone rang, he stopped whatever it was and took the call. I'm betting he interrupted some pretty important meetings at times.

It's funny all the things you say you did. Basically you are guilty of being any average guy. I bet there are millions of average guys out there who treat their wives exactly the same way and their wives don't cheat.

Try and take away something positive from this. Make your new marriage better than all those millions out there who will never know what they are missing.

Being calm here...

Wife told me last night that she had texted OM to tell him that she had gone home... When she left a message for him last week, she didn't say that she was coming home, just that she was working on our relationship and for him not to call her anymore. She had gone through her emails, and had sent notes to several of her girlfriends telling them that she had ended it w OM, and was home working on 'us'. She said when she did that, she realized that she didn't tell OM that. (more on emails in a second)

I didn't flip or blow up or anything, but I did get kind of abrupt when we were talking about it. My point was that it shouldn't matter to OM (or to her!) where she was... if she told him not to contact her any more, that she was working on our relationship, that he didn't need to know where she was living - that it was irrelevent information. I also told her that I took her texting him very seriously, and that since we had not really rebuilt any level of trust that I could only assume that what she sent him was inappropriate, and that it meant to me that she was still in contact with him. I then went on to say that she knows my boundaries, and that in the future any contact (voicemail, text, emails) needed to be done ONLY AFTER TALKING TO ME, and ONLY WITH OUR JOINT APPROVAL, and ONLY WHEN I WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HER. That those conditions were the only way I would feel 'ok' about her having any contact with him.

Emails : there are 3 emails in one of her mail folders that she has saved from early May from OM. She periodically opens and reads them. She knows I know she has them, and she knows I know that she still looks at them. When I asked her why she had not deleted them, her answer was that she wasn't ready to. She went through the computer and deleted other things (a document she had sent to him, other emails, etc.) but she hasn't deleted these. When we talked about it last night, she just said that she 'wasn't there yet', but would be soon. Should I push it, or be patient and stick with Plan A?

Finally, she told me last night that she thought she would be ready for SF soon... that she was feeling more comfortable being around me and with me every day. I take this as her getting through withdrawal from OM, and coming around the corner? We kiss, hug, talk more now than we have in a long time (maybe a year?) and she has noticed the change in our relationship and said she was still adjusting to it. (she meant in a good way) This is positive, right?

Headed to the beach next week with my family...

She's still maintaining that there's been NC, and is going despite the huge potential for lots of ugliness withmy family. I am planning on giving them all 'the talk' about how if I am accepting her back, they need to honor my decision and not gang up or try and punish her in any way... We've both made mistakes and she feels like everyone is focusing on her alone...

She looked at the remaining 3 emails twice yesterday, and only once tonight. Hopefully it will be none tomorrow and on into next week.

I guess I have to accept issues like this as we move forward, and just be patient?

No, this is the time where your supporters need to show their support of you and show they respect your decision. As for the Xws needing space make sure that's for real and NOT an excuse.

At this time, it is ok for the BS t/b needy. If the Xws can't keep up, it is their but on the line.

After all, the WS have taught the BS and family that we can live without them, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Hm.... right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L.

FL-Blindsided

Do you know what is written in the emails? To me, her reading them is a type of "contact." Through them, OM is still filling EN's for her (even if they are old emails and she and he are no longer in current contact).

I'm guessing you don't want to fight with her about them, but her keeping them worries me. Cold turkey is really the best way to go when in withdrawal. The longer she holds on to any reminders or mementos, the harder she is making it on herself (and you!) in the long run.

If you agree with me, would you feel comfortable telling her that you believe the emails are filling needs of hers that you want to be filling?

God bless,
Rose

yes - I have copies of them...

They weren't long or involved, but they did show the emotional bond...

"I'm headed to work, call me later baby" and

"I can't wait to see you and hold you and kiss you"...

basically one or two sentence notes, but I'm sure they are filling some need of hers. She says she's not ready to get rid of them, but admits to looking at them less now than last week, and says she's going to get rid of them soon. I have verified thru the monitoring software that she is looking at them less over time.

With us headed out next week, she will be completely cut off from email and her ability to read them. She also isn't taking her cell on our trip.

I'm anticipating it being kinda rough as it will be cold turkey at that point... But I'm doing my best plan A to avoid exacerbating the situation...

"I'm anticipating it being kinda rough as it will be cold turkey at that point"

"Rough" might be an understatement - I hope not, though, for your sake. Hopefully the vacation atmosphere and being with family will be a good distraction. It shows in your posts that you love her. Hang in there!

Rose

You won't get any SF as long as these email are around. DELETE THEM and don't ask permission, JUST DO IT. It's like a recovering alcoholic taking a couple swills of liquor every now and then to help her slowly quit. Dump out all the booze. Sure, she'll be pissed off at you for ONE DAY when she finds out. Otherwise she can still pine over OM for SEVERAL WEEKS. Which would you rather choose?

K - here's my plan, and the reasons for it.

I know about the emails.
She knows I know about them.
I know that she's looking at them.
She knows I know that she's looking at them.
We've discussed how they are reminders of OM, and that her hanging on to them is the same as talking to him.
She's getting better. She's viewing less.
We have a week completely out of touch with this world, where viewing those emails will not be possible.
One of my biggest fears pre-WW return on 6/8 was that she did not intend on going on this vacation with us.
She has stated in emails to girlfriends that she is looking forward to this trip as a 'break' from here and all reminders.

My plan is to allow them to remain through the end of this week, but to have them disappear the week we're gone. If she's not done pining over them after a week home and a week at the beach, I will be forced to take action.

I do not want anything to happen pre-trip that could jeopardize her not going... If me and rest of family are out of town and she remains behind, all of the reminders of what she has at stake here will be gone... (me, kids, our family being together) and I fear that she would lose her ability to maintain NC.

Yes - I love her. Very much. So much that every time I see she's looking at them it makes me hurt even deeper. But I am able to accept a little pain today for a better relationship down the road.

She got some encouraging words of support from a friend from church - someone she looks to frequently for guidance. She had not discussed her 'situation' with this friend previously, because of (I believe) shame of her actions. Her friend confessed to her that she had been in a very similar situation several years prior... and how much closer the challenges of her A had brought her to both her H and God. My wife literally started crying on the phone when she heard about it... They are planning on getting together for a 'girls lunch' to discuss all of the ways her friend was able to get thru the withdrawal, reminders, memories, etc and rebuild her trust and marriage with her H. WW told me about the call, and about how encouraging it was to have someone else to talk to that had been thru what she is in, and had successfully 'made it thru' it all.

Just a word of caution…remember that an addict can find a way to get a hit. When you're away, watch out for things like prepaid phone cards and pay phones.

I'm very glad to hear about her friend at church. God works in mysterious ways. The very sad part is that A's are rampant, even in church environments. A pastor friend of ours recently told my H that he's "up to his ears in crocodiles" with A's and D's in his congregation. Hopefully those of us who have learned terribly hard lessons can at least help each other.

God bless,
Rose

emails gotta go homeboy.

I found a stash of cards and photos from OM quite by accident. In fact, it was WW's direct actions that made me find them. I posted that incident but it involved an intense wrestling match where I had to threaten to break WW's fingers to protect certain personal assets and she ended up eating on of the cards to destroy the evidence. Wasn't pretty.

WW's should never keep souvenirs of their affairs. That is disrespectful to the M. It is also a form of contact. She needs to forget OM - not keep momentos.

Then you are being a friggin doormat. Emails gotta go. Period. This is not a POJA issue.

Of course, considering his age, she might argue that she is just helping proof his high school English homework.

HELP!

she's now starting almost an anxiety attack about going on this trip...

says she's afraid of what will get said either by her or my family, and we won't ever be able to recover from it... All kinds of 'end of the line' talk...

I'm telling her it's ok, stay calm, if its uncomfortable we'll find another place, etc... but she's backpedaling HARD to get out of going!

Any advice? Need advice quick!!!

Promise her that anybody who wants to attack her has to go through you. You are the one who believes in this M and they can either respect you and your decision or they can swallow it. Be tough. Show her you are going to stand up for her.

And don't let her down for a second.

My WW had a lot of anxiety when she saw my family for the first time. Now she is glad to see them.

Personally I think this is a smoke screen. She now realizes she will be out of contact with OM. That's what has her stressed.