I agree.

I called my mom and dad, and my brother last night. I gave them the "We have both made mistakes and hurt each other and a lot of other people, but we're trying to rebuild and restore our marriage. This is not the time or the place for any comments, discussion, ANYTHING related to me or my wife, our relationship, our past choices. Anything said that is upsetting or in anyway is an attack on WW, and we're out."

Dude - glad to have you back. Missed you. This has been one of the toughest weeks to get through, with her being home, and her still in withdrawal. She might not even be there now because of the emails. I know they have to go, but I'm not giving her ANY EXCUSE to blow up and not go.

I'm planning on PLAN A-ing my a$$ off this week. If she comes back and goes to them, they will be gone.

I know you would love nothing more than have your family knock some sense into WW. You CANNOT let that happen. If you do, you will have betrayed her. I think I told you before that you may not trust WW but she doesn't trust you either. Must be tough to be a wayward - never knowing who your friends really are. I feel so sorry for them - no - wait - scratch that.

Absolutely will defend my wife to the grave... (or until D)

I've made that point clear to my family, as well as her. She should have nothing to fear but, well, you know the rest.

I have given up sleep, food, sex, appx 25% of my income, sold my ownership in my business, two titles and a whole lot of face to get to this point. I'm not letting my mommy or daddy tell me whats best for me. I've made that very clear.

If only I could get wife's attention for a little bit - to see what we have/had/can have again...

Who said you weren't. There are a million things left unsaid during all this. I'm sure you have gotten her attention. She is just chemically dependent at the moment. She'll get over it with time and NC.

NO NO NO!!!! WRONG!!!!

U R letting the WS in her dictate how u and your family s/b. U want them to have to walk on eggshells because the WS is babbling?

Get a grip. Go back and setup a good plan. One that YOUR supporters will feel valued for.

STOP letting the WS dictate to you.

Ex:

WS: I am scared your family will hate me and they will nevre like me again.

BS: U s/b scared but u also s/b glad that they are forgiving if U R no longer a WS. I have spoken to them and they will respect MY decision if you accompany me as my W.

This means if you allow the WS side of you to show, there is no telling how any of us will react. So it is up to you, r u gonna be a WS or my W?

WS: Oh.... well what if I can't be your W?

BS: Then you'd better be prepared to live with those choices. Stop babbling to me. Do you WANT t/b known as a WS? Is that how you WANT t/b remembered?

WS: No.

BS: Ok then. (then walk away - you've got to allow time to sink in).

Then go to your family and reset the expectations. Let them know you value their support and while you are more than willing to hear their POVs, ask they respect your decisions since they don't have all the info but need to trust that you are doing this with a clear mind and calm heart. That you love your family and want what is best for all. Then ask for their help where they can but if they can't you'll understand. This may mean you may have to changed some vacation plans or whatever.

JMHO,
L.

There is no way I would do what Orchid suggests. If my family were trained professionals - yes. But my family is a bunch of loose cannons. There is no way of knowing what they would say or do. They are biased. She hurt you so they are automatically against her. What Orchid is suggesting is that you hold WW up while they pummel the crap out of her. No way I would take my WW on that trip - ever.

No, what I am suggesting is that you set the rules that will NOT allow a WS to rule your world and that of your supports. I am suggesting you let the WS know you want your W back NOT the WS.

Read my post again. It says for the supporters to respect the decision of the BS.

What good does it to have supporters and then put the WS in control? How long would you support someone who is that fickle?

L.

You know? I got tired of this alien theory, S vs. WS, etc. a long time ago. I don't pay much attention to it any more.

Piojitos, please explain why you feel this way.

Thanks,
L.

K - really doesn't matter what my family says right now...

Pio - your family is a bunch of loose cannons - you should have been there last night...

We drive 8 hrs, get in to beach place around 7pm last night. By 9pm, my wife is in our room about to explode, I've already asked my mom respectfully to stop making the snide remarks at my wifes expense...

A couple more rounds of this (my mom making DJ's in front of other family, incl my kids, my wife getting up and excusing herself from the room) and i invite my mom and dad out for a leisurely stroll to discuss how they are doing EXACTLY what I told them not to do... and that I would not have been there had I known what we were walking into...

my father (who's 63) and I almost come to blows, I excuse myself, go get family and we pack up and leave. So my summer vacation / father's day getaway / opportunity to Plan A my wife w/o local pressures/triggers/reminders lasts all of 3 1/2 hours. We eventually find a hotel about an hour away, and end up spending Father's day with just my family. (Better anyway...)

I don't know if its the stress of my family event last night, or the 16 hours we've spent in a car together with 2 kids, or the time that she hasn't been able to get on her email and read OM's old emails, but she's gone from being "we're going to make it work" to "I don' really know if I can do this" and "I think I moved back too soon" and "You are going to have to be the one to move out this time"...

What a wonderful friggin' Fathers Day.

This is but one small chuckhole on the highway of life.

You did good.

And I'm guessing it was the 16 hours in the car.

In a couple of days, you will see all this differently.

Keep at it.

You should be proud.

Family - too bad we can't divorce THEM.

hah...

I'm considering driving back up on Wed, leaving wife/kids here in FL. Main reason is to see my bro and his family - they've been in China for ~4 yrs and we rarely get together. Any mended fences w/family would be a bonus. My wife suggested that I stay and she go last night, but no way would I have let her potentially see me as 'siding' with my family over her.

I'm going back to a good plan A here this week and see how it goes. Maybe I'll drive back up, maybe not.

On another note, we have our first couples counseling session coming up next week (we're trying to get it resched for this week as we're now home and available...) Will be very interesting to see how this one goes... The last time we went to counseling as a couple, she basically went 'cold' to me and shut down completely... but a lot has changed in the past 7 weeks. Man, has it ever...

WW told me tonight that one of the biggest obstacles she sees to recovery with me is that 'everyone knows'. She claims that she can't handle that baggage and all the weight of their judgement will prevent us from reconnecting... (actually just her connecting with me, I guess)

Other counselors (other than the Harleys) recommend against informing any other parties (family, friends, children) as this can a significant issue to address in reconciliation. With my WW's need for approval from others, she sees this as a significant issue, so much so she's saying that now she can't be around my family, she's uncomfortable with me around hers, as well as all my work functions, community functions, church functions, etc etc etc.

Any suggestions? Just tell her to get over it? Tell her I gave her the opportunity to do this on her own but she did not? Apologize to those people for involving them / sharing info with them?

As this is one of the primary tactics at waking up / disrupting the A, I'd like to know how others fared with this challenge...

My WW told me we had to move. My WW told me she could never face either of our families ever again. Water under the bridge. They are all fast friends again.

Any time WW tells you she thinks there are too many obstacles, don't discuss it. Stay silent. Let her finish her thoughts. Then, after a pause, just tell her that you love her an believe you can overcome anything. Keep it simple. It isn't a debate. She isn't wanting a discussion. She is simply expressing her feelings. Better to simply be quiet and let her talk.

You are like me. You want to counter every argument. Try just shutting up and see what happens. You might be surprised.

Nope - you're wrong, I NEVER argue! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gotcha. I Understand. But real hard for a man that's never wrong... just kidding! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As I try to do with the fog-talk, I just let it roll through... One of my favorite pseudo-quotes (was in a work of fiction) is the Bene Jesserit Litany against Fear, from Frank Herbert's Dune :

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over and through me. And when it has gone I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

I must repeat this a couple of times a day. I will be ok. I can handle this. Yo-yo emotions are difficult to manage, but I can do it.

Cliff Notes version:

I will bend like the willow.

much too short to really be a worthwhile litany...

Just remember that next time WW says there is no hope and that there is just too much damage, think to yourself "I will bend like the willow".

I can't remember how many times my WW told me that there were just too many obstacles. I got tired of counting. I should have made a spreadsheet. Darn it!

FLB,

You did a good job sticking up for your FWW. I think that after she has time to process things, this will be a net positive for you. She is not having trouble with you, she is having trouble dealing with her own guilt. MC (especially with the Harley) should be able to address this issue. She doesn't like having to deal with the consequences of her actions. Eventually she will come to terms with it. Just continue to be a rock.