Booooooringgggggg.

drive it ONCE and repost that... I double dog dare you!

Can we spell "mid-life crisis"?

I am pretty happy with my Fireblade. I don't like cars. I like motorcycles. Driving a car is like watching life on a movie screen. I like the smorgasbord of smells you get on a motorcycle (except when riding behind a garbage truck). I like riding on hot days and, no matter how hot it is, going through little "pockets" of cool and wondering how that is possible. I like riding long distance on a hot sunny day and seeing a thunderstorm looming on the horizon and struggling with indecision. I like riding on a day so cold I can't feel my fingers and having to alternately put my hands on the cylinder heads to warm them back up.

I hate riding in sand storms though. That just plain hurts.

How about spending your money getting counseling with the Harleys?

Quit correcting or educating your wife. Let her disrespectful comments roll off your back, or just tell her that her comments hurt your feelings. Do not engage in her back and forth criticism. It just helps her justify her behavior. It is going to be a while to fill up her love bank again. Withdrawals like this only prolong your agony. Work at meeting her ENs and avoiding LBs. Don't push for anything, but when she brings up separation, let her know in know uncertain terms you will not agree to it, but you can't control her, so if she wants to move out and take care of her own finances, you can't stop her. She won't do it. You are just going to have to wait this one out for another six months. You'll probably notice significant improvement after NC w/ OM for 4-6 months. Just be patient and work a GOOD plan A.

Piojitos - yes, most definitely a MLC. Can't imagine why... what with self esteem issues and a wife that likes 22 year olds.

Same story, different thread, wife is threatening to go to lawyer to get access to all $$. Says we can afford it from savings. (which is true, we can.) Says my arguments against are unfounded. (which I STRONGLY disagree with...) Says its all she needs to figure this out.

I'm telling her to go back to her mom's. Stay there. Figure it out. Call me when you want to talk again, or when you've decided you want out of the M.

I think you should apologize to her for how you acted last night. Don't ask me why. But I really think you should.

k. I accepted your advice, called her and apologized for whatever it was I said last night either in the restaurant, the car ride to or from the restaurant, and home that set her off. I said that I don't know what triggered your anger at me, but I am sorry. If she can tell me what it was that set her off, I would do my best to avoid those comments / conversations unless absolutely necessary.

She apologized in return, but only for her anger in front of the kids. Not for what she said.

I know that recovery is rough, but its almost rougher than when I KNEW what she was doing, because I could logically understand her decisions/comments/motivations. Now, I am constantly wondering about the 'why'.

Thanks again.

You don't need to know why. Just verify NC, continue to make love bank deposits, avoid withdrawals, and wait it out until she falls in love with you again. The longer you fight it, the longer it will take. Just be patient.

One thought...

She insists that she shouldn't have to 'work with you' on affording an apartment and moving out? That this is you 'controlling her'?

Next time she does that, remind her that this is a MARRIAGE. That means that you DO have to work together on this kind of stuff...its not control, its common courtesy and taking care of your FAMILY's needs over anything else.

You've commented that she doesn't want a divorce...that she wants you to foot all the bills.

Make it CLEAR...VERY VERY CLEAR...she's welcome to move out if she likes...there's nothing you can do to stop her. She's a grown woman, able to make big girl choices. But if that's what she choses to do, she funds it herself...just like a big girl has to do. If she wants to make choices on her own, she funds and deals with those choices ON HER OWN. Marriages require JOINT decisions, and are JOINTLY funded. (I don't just mean money here, either.)

To me, this is simply part of 'suffering the consequences'.

On a totally seperate note. On the SIM card issue. Tear a tiny piece of paper and put it behind the SIM card in her cell phone. Make it a very tiny piece off of a corner of a sheet. If she changes the SIM card out, that little piece of paper is likely to fall out and she won't even notice, or will just think it was scrap from her purse/pocket. No way that it could fall out if that compartment wasn't opened. If you check and find it gone, its time to get a digital recorder put where you might be able to catch her conversations.

Okay. Better than nothing. One piece of advice. No matter what the circumstances, a man should never tell a woman "I'm sorry for whatever it was I said or did that made you mad". They don't like that. Women!

A better approach might have been something like:

"I said some things last night that were mean. I guess I was angry but, even so, a husband should never say things like that to or about his wife. I'm really sorry".

More or less.

And by the way, I hope you recognize the brilliance in that. The genius is that you are completely side-stepping the problem of having to admit that you have no clue why you are apologizing. Women!

K - remember the sisters I mentioned 10-12 pages back? (both have had A's, one is good, is truly a model FWW, the other is bad - capital B bad - continues to have short term PA's) Well, she's 'out to dinner' with the bad one.

Story goes that the bad one's husband finally had enough, and moved out. She was 'there' for my WW when she needed someone to talk to, so my WW feels its her obligation to be 'there' for her.

I stated as a condition before she came back that I did not want her going out with bad sister in any sort of nighttime activities - if they need to talk, they can do it here, her house, whatever. People talk in other places than bars. Although she agreed to it on 6/8, she now says that that's asking too much.

It's now 11pm, she's been out since 7:30. I'm not calling her to check up, but I am about to lose my cool. It's all I can do to keep from calling and starting the grand inquisition...

This is a huge trigger for me... whether its 'girls night', dinner with friends, a womans volunteer organization meeting, my wife has used them all as excuses to carry on her A. And she's out again. Just weeks after coming home, saying how she was going to work 120% to save our marriage, honor my requests, etc etc etc. I swear I am about to break. My patience is wearing down. My love is thinning out. I'm not sure I can continue this. She is absolutely showing me no respect or appreciation. I understand that its really early in recovery (if we're even there yet) but her behavior makes me want out and never look back.

I hate the person I become when she plays me this way. I hate it, but cannot change.

She just ignored one of your boundaries. How are you going to enforce it?

Do nothing and she will continue to push the envelope further and further. Put your foot down now, and she'll learn not blatantly disregard your boundaries.

Think "measured response".

Another bad night. She came home after 4 hrs in a restuarant with her girlfriend, and evidently her GF isn't a fan of mine either. (But then, she is a cheater too, whose husband just left her, so I'm not taking it too personally...)

WW has told me that she has never felt as much for me as she did her recent man. And that she doesn't think she ever could. And that that relationship, even though its over and she doesn't intend to restart it, has opened her eyes to what true happiness is, and that she's never felt that way with me - ever.

She's VERY mean tonight... Let's just say I've always had esteem issues, and now, well, it's not going to be any better.

In my counseling session today we discussed my concern over separation... I don't believe I'm that concerned over this specific OM, I think what is more on my mind that if she moves out, the last of my love goes too. And without me maintaining this relationship, we're done.

I have asked her to move out and file for divorce tomorrow. I don't view separation as an option for me, and she doesn't see remaining under the same roof... is there another option that I've overlooked?

The question is are you ready for plan B? Is your mind and heart in sync? Got patience in your pocket? Do you know HOW to identify and respond to WS babble?

Are your finances secure?

L.

Why did you do this? There is an option of her staying and you continuing to plan A, but I guess you overlooked that option. You need patience. Tell her you don't want a divorce, and she can stay, but you aren't moving out. Get control of yourself. Quit blowing your plan A every time your WW says something that bothers you.

Her staying isn't an option. She's moving further and further away from me emotionally. I can't even come in the bathroom when she's showering now. She no longer even kisses me good night. I believe that if she stays, I will be emotionally empty in a matter of weeks.

The more and more she treats me this way, the less i want her to stay. If neither of us loves the other, how can we make it work? I feel like I've carried this on my back since January, when I realized what an [censored] I had been to her. And its absolutely wearing me down. The more she tries to fight with me, the less i want her around. So is it plan b time? Isn't that the purpose of a plan b? Attempt to save whats left of my love?

Plan B is for ENDING HER AFFAIR!

Suck it up. The reason that things are worse is because you are LBing. Meet her ENs, avoid LBs, and start filling up her love bank. This will likely take about SIX MONTHS! If emotional therapy is what you need, THEN GET IT if you are serious about saving your marriage. If you don't believe you can turn this thing around, then she won't either. If you want to save this marriage, then SUCK IT UP! For the first two months after my WW ended her affair in November, she told me she was never going to have sex with me again. Well, guess what, we started having sex this month, and it is better and more often than the two years prior to the affair. Don't think that I didn't have moments where I thought I couldn't go on much longer. STOP LOVE BUSTING!

It sounds to me as though she's had contact. Started out wanting to work things out in the marriage, but now doesn't want to.

This just SCREAMS that she's still be in contact.

Can you remember a specific day when her attitude change back to the wayward one?

Personally, I think you need to resume your snooping/spying. This doesn't sound like withdrawl, this sounds like an ongoing affair.

She went back into wayward mode when they went on vacation with his family and they kept making snide remarks at her expense.

I agree that you need to be snooping to verify NC, but you also need to apologize for your behavior the past few days. She is afraid that you haven't changed, and that things will go back to the way they were before the affair when you were and *ss and she was extremely unhappy. You need six months of plan A to show her that things WILL BE DIFFERENT.

Snoop to verify NC (I hope the emails have been erased), block all access to OM, but let her know you don't want a D or her to move out, and plan A your butt off. Put your needs on hold!