Bullcrap!!! This is total nonsense.


Do this only if you are willing to live and accept SIX MONTHS of unrelenting h*ll from A VERY ACTIVE and UNREPENTANT WS. If you don’t mind facing your WW everyday for the next SIX MONTHS while she is screwing OM (or another one), JMWC may be on to something. Otherwise, you may want to try another approach.


Given what has recently transpired, this is just bad advice.

I also agree 100% with Owl that contact has been reestablished; you just can’t see it. I surmise that your WW is either currently screwing someone else or plans to do so soon. The fact that she won’t let even you come in the shower evidences her CURRENT WS state of mind.

You need to decide how much crap and crumbs you are willing to accept from her. If I were you, I would start preparing for plan B or D. Get your ducks in row, as events have just taken a very, very bad turn.

UVA,

Have you been keeping up with this thread? His WW agreed to NC, it has lasted for 7 weeks, and only after being publicly ridiculed by his parents, she is reconsidering her decision to work on the marriage. FLB is making matters worse by flipping out.

I agree that if she hasn't, she may try and contact OM again. You need to ramp up the snooping. Telling her that you want her to file for divorce will only justify her desire to contact OM. Verify NC, but continue to plan A. You do not discuss divorce with a WW.

FL,

You were on the right track, but you had a bad week. Don't give up because you hit a bump in the road. Use this to help refocus your efforts. I'm confident your marriage will last as long as you don't give up. If you give up, that's understandable and it's your choice. But if you still want to save it, keep at it. I know that we'd all like a quick fix, but it usually doesn't happen that way. Keep fighting the good fight, but it's better to fight smart than fight hard.

thanks folks - I appreciate the posts on this day I was out of the office.

Got my new company car... a beautiful new loaded toyota avalon... not the Cayman or the 650i that I dream of, but a VERY nice car. Its good to have some positive things happen.

I don't believe WW has reestablished contact. Emails are gone. No home phone or cellphone calls to/from any unknown #'s. Her NC has been since 5/28 thereabouts, so not 7 weeks, but a good solid 3.

I pushed every one of her buttons last nite trying to trigger her, to try and determine her mental state. At the end of it, she's still saying she loves me, but doesn't know what she wants.

She called me from apartment complex this afternoon. Apparently, if you don't work, don't have any income, don't have any savings or any real credit, you can't lease an apartment! Imagine that! So she called me to come sign her lease... I told her I needed time to think on that one - that I wasn't confident in her decisionmaking skills at the moment and I needed to assess the situation.

She starts work on Monday... funny, but she's been telling all her GF's about how her check will pay for her clothes, her botox, etc... lol - it won't cover her rent.

I need to think long and hard on this one. I am tempted to write her a big check, hand it over, and tell her to come see me in 6 mos when the lease is over to tell me what she thinks then. I know I have to let her go, let her make her own decisions, because any pressure or manipulation I apply will only come back to bite me in the a$$ later on. But like I told my IC, I am very afraid that the second after she leaves, for the 4th time, this time to an apartment, this time for at least 6 mos, that my love will depart simultaneously. I really worry if I will have anything left should she want to come back.

Do NOT enable the A or any A like attitudes. Pay for her rent is enabling.

If she pulls that 'if you love me you will pay for the rent'....crappola.....run.

L.

found out from snooping that she's still in contact, and is attempting to 'run into' him in the bars he hangs out in at night.

So - I'm definitely not doing the apartment. She can figure it out on her own.

I am also seriously considering divorce. I was really REALLY believing that she was trying this time. I don't think this is recoverable...

that sucks.....

I guess it is no surprise why she wants the apt. She wants space for the affair and have OM move out from his 'mommy'.

I see you are on a rollercoaster ride .... you have older teenagers - right?

What is their take on this situation? A middle aged mom wanting to date a 22 yo sounds kind of creepy. I have a 25 and 19 yo - can't imagine my 48 yo W wanting to date someone of that age.

It seems these boards are getting loaded with 40+ WW having a mid life crisis lately.

Oldest is still 17. WW told her about OM about 6 weeks back, prior to graduation and finals week. She BARELY got out. That last 2 weeks of school she constantly used 'our situation' to skip, reschedule tests, excuse her bad behavior, and on and on.

My two younger ones know that Mom and Dad aren't happy, but don't know the details.

My WW is absolutely focused on my near miss EA in January. Not her, not her dishonesty, not her continuing her affair after exposure, but me.

Yes, it is creepy. There are so many connections between OM and many of my friends... His wife sold my best friend his house. He worked for another friend laying tile, but got fired for being a pi$$ poor employee. He was best friends with a guy that was killed in a car wreck two summers ago... that my oldest was dating at the time. He was at the funeral with my daughter and WW. He's currently hanging out with another group of guys that are brothers to another friend of mine. See what I mean - like freaky weird how many connections there are.

I have developed a theory that there are really just a handful of 'real people', that most everyone else we see/interact with aren't real, they are simply figments. Almost like the Matrix, with all of this being dreamed by a 'group-dream'. (OK enough weird late night coffee thoughts...)

OM's family, including his mom, are now referring to him as 'Robin's Cabana Boy'.

My roller coaster ride is about to end. I've got to get off...

It does get easier to let them go as each day passes.

You can see she is about to ruin her life.

You used to care.

Because you still loved her.

Now she has killed that too.

I have to believe that this is still a reasonably sane woman. It is like she is screaming for help. But, at the end of the day, her choices are hers.

FLB,

You have come this far, don't give up now. Tell her you want to stay married, but you are willing to take it slow for a LONG time. Work on building up that love bank. Do not talk about divorce, and DO NOT ENABLE!

It's only been a few weeks of NC. Try and ride the storm out a little longer. No LB, meet her ENs, verify NC, and don't talk D for two months and re-evaluate the situation then.

thanks J - I appreciate the support but I find it so hard to be in this relationship right now. I am wondering if truly 'letting her go' figure it out would be the best for me (and us) right now.

She's not giving up 'girl's nights', knows where OM goes on which nights of the week, and actively tries to stage accidental encounters.

Her lack of remorse, her continued 'barfly' type behavior, and her selfishness are killing me day by day. I am truly wondering if a plan B might be in order to help wake her up.

Also - if you have time, pls review this other post and help my with my side of the blame...

FLB's Bad Choices

I see where Jim is coming from .....

I wouldnt make fast decisions when the emotions are so raw.

I can see where a 180 may make more sense in your case rather than a strict Plan A. The 180 (there is a link somewhere) is like a in between plan a / b stage. Try that if and when she moves out. It will show a mature H handling a awful situation while she slums with a youngster. This A is just too wierd.

I personally found it easier and was effective. It also prepares you for a plan b or d whenever you need to. FaithfulwifeCJ had a link recently on this.

See Below:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

What is best for the both of you is to make this work. It is harder to work on the marriage when you are split up. Separating will only give her the green light to pursue an affair. Put an end to girls night out. If she continues, pack her crap and put it on the driveway and tell her to find somewhere else to stay (and you don't give her a check). She'll throw a fit, but she'll learn not to walk all over you. Expose her partying lifestyle to her family and friends again if you have to.

What are you doing to fill up her lovebank? What are her top ENs? How have you been meeting them?

You want immediate results. If you want you want to save your marriage without having to work for it for 6+ months, then you don't want to save your marriage.

If you want the M to work, work the plans. If you are unsure, figure it out. I wouldn't sty with her at this point... but that is me.
If she went NC and is now breaking it, then IMHO... it is time for plan B. You cannot enable the A by paying for her apartment that she will most likely screw around in.
Set your boundaries... and enforce them. Contact at this point... or attempted contact is a reason to move to Plan B immediately. Do not be guilted into making decisions here by some that will say you don't want this if you are not doing it their way. You get to decide what you want and why... and breaking NC is a reason to go dark on someone.
Confront her with the truth and let her know that you know and that this will not be tolerated any longer. Let her make her choices and then deal with all the consequences that come along with that choice.

FLB,

Her A cannot last a fortnight. Even OM's mother is making fun of him. This is a joke to everyone but you and WW and your kids. The question now is will you want her back.

she has not completed the EN worksheet. I left her a note this morning asking her to review a section out of HNHN and complete the survey, and she called me when she got up and blasted me for having the nerve to ask her to do that.

I can guess at her EN's, and they are:

physical attractiveness
conversation
affection
financial support
either Admiration or Family commitment

Her family & friends think I'm psycho. They think I should just 'let her be' and see what happens, and that I am wrong to try and save my marriage. Her mom has been thru ~4 marriages and divorces. Her brother is married and divorced, and is now expecting his 1st child out of wedlock. so I don't get a lot of morality-based support from that side of the fence.

I am trying to hit her (guesstimated) EN's. She's preventing much of my actions, and is ridiculing me to friends and family. She won't allow any conversations, without turning it back to me and my mistakes.So I can't have any conversation for conversations sake. I'm working on the physical attractiveness part, losing weight, staying clean and well dressed, but she 'can't stand to be in the same room with me'. Affection is a definite no-no, and financial support is a hot button, so when I just told her that I would not pay for her apartment or cosign the lease with her, she views that as a 'lack of financial support' which is a huge LB for her.

I'm at a loss here. I don't see how a Plan A would work given her mental state, and the 180 plan sounds like a possibility so I'll read up on that one.

FL-B:

About this:

"when I just told her that I would not pay for her apartment or cosign the lease with her, she views that as a 'lack of financial support' which is a huge LB for her."

Of course it is. But you just keep on refusing.

She wants to move out? She can pay for it. Or she can get the money from Mom, Dad, Brother or OM. Let him at least pay for it.

The money YOU earn, for YOUR family, is to be used for YOUR family. Not so WW can live a "Single" life in her apartment.

Will she continue to link your potenial EA to her actions? You bet. And if you had not had the Potential EA, she would link it to something else.

All these are justifications for her being an adulteress.....

Stay strong, for what is right.

LG

Thanks LG - this just went from very bad to phenomenally bad.

I was forced to sell some assets to insure that we had cash on hand to cover any expenses that came up, with my biggest concern being legal fees, potential for another residence (WW's apartment), and the potential of my job being in jeopardy based on my poor performance.

I didn't discuss with my wife - I probably should have in hind sight, but I did not. She saw a bank statement today and flipped when I told her what I had done. Says she's filing charges for my illegal activities, will immediately push for divorce, etc etc.

I told her that what I did I did only to secure our immediate short term finances, as well as the potential for longer term expenses.

She sees it as me hiding stuff. Nothing is hidden. Nothing is spent inappropriately. Nothing surreptitious. I just didn't tell her about it. Her words were 'fraudulent conversion'...

Any legal eagles hiding out there that know what that means in english?

Is there a legal seperation in place, are you both joint account holders?

She can't say anything until there is a legal seperation.

Now on one had you shouldn't leave that money in a joint account you need to insure she can't get it and decide to take it for her apartment. You need to put it in an account you control and then show her the statement that the assets are there.

Now down the road those assets can be divide so you have to keep track what you spend it on, if its to pay down marital debt she can't argue it, if you spend it on a big screen tv then they can claim a portion of what you spent on it as her's and either as you to sell it to get the value back or give her cash equalivant.

FL-B:

"Fraudulent Conversion":

Translation:

"Why didn't I think of that first!"

Let her DO. Protect yourself, move funds to a seperate account if you need to.

But let HER DO.

Let her DO the things she threatens Otherwise, Continue your Plan A.

LG