Jin - I'm sorry, but the more I hear, the more I don't like. I think you are absolutely right to be worried about XH's car and his driving style. This coming from someone who can be a very aggressive driver and whose wife would complain about it. I have since learned to temper that I'm much more careful since my kids were born. I have also come to understand that whether or not it's really safe, and whether or not the other person is "over reacting", no one has the right to make another person feel unsafe - emotionally or physically.

I really think that's it best to hunker down for now and steer clear of him if he's going through something. You certainly don't want the kids on the road with him if he's not in a good state of mind. You also don't want them being around the drama between him and GF if he's not at his best, after a long stressful drive AND things go sour between them. Red flags all over the place AFAIC.

Oh, and did you say that she doesn't even DRIVE???? WTF?!?!? She doesn't work, she doesn't drive... What a peach. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

(Hey, Orchid said we could DJ all we want here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Thanks for the support, Seabird. My friends, my family - all believe I am justified in my stance. I know it's the right decision, and it helps to hear validation.

Nope - she doesn't drive. Her DD told my DD that her mother tested 6 times and failed.

Our friend whom XH lived with for the first 6 months of our separation, asked XH once (early on) why GF didn't work. XH told our friend (so this is 3rd party hearsay - I never heard it from XH himself) that GF has some sort of social anxiety disorder and cannot be around crowds of people. My kids overheard her tell XH this once too (but again, I have no firsthand info on this, just what I was told), and she *might* get disability for this. Apparently she has no problems flying or being in airports, which are usually crowded with people. She also "dresses" for attention - I'll leave that to your imagination.

Even though she does not drive, there is a FREE shuttle bus in our community that goes all over town, all day long. Plenty of people work their schedules around this, and take the bus to and from work - it's FREE. Even if she didn't drive, if she chose to she could have worked something out. If XH was financially flush, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but he spent the last year in the financial dumper, and I got collection calls for him, and lots of those little envelopes from the bank (he never changed his address with the bank, so I always knew when he was broke). Each little "envelope" cost him $30 in service charges for the bank to cover his overdrafts. At least once, they didn't cover him (mortgage check last year), and that started a whole nightmare that nearly landed him in forclosure (and the kids and me out in the street) - I took care of that (the loan is in HIS name, I'm on the deed - so it didn't frig up my credit).

A *partner* does not let that sort of thing happen. As his wife, I took on all kinds of work after hours. I stayed at home with the kids when they were small, and I worked multiple part time jobs to keep us afloat and moving forward. I did what it took. I've worked hard and sacrificed much. Yet here XH is, allowing himself to be screwed financially, and apparently loving every minute of it. Fog is thick.

When he set off on his own, I took our last huge joint tax refund - over $7000, and kept $500 for myself. The rest I used to pay off his car, his medical bills and his credit card. He started over with *no* debt, excellent credit score and enough to live on. There's that "bitter ex" again. I could have kept my half, given him his half and let the chips fall where they may - but in doing so I would have had problems down the road when he wouldn't have been able to meet his obligations to us. So my motives weren't entirely selfless - but I made it *easier* for all of us, because in my mind, it was the right thing to do.

Our divorce agreement was fair. I had my attorney draft it and even he said I was being too kind - but again, the D wasn't what I wanted, and to screw him over would have been sour grapes, and wouldn't have fostered any kind of civil relationship. I had plenty of reasons to be angry and bitter, but life is too short to play those games, and nobody wins if we can't all manage.

Heck, 3 years later I'm still "supporting" him insofar as the business goes. If I walked away tomorrow and got another job that paid me a salary, the business would fold, we'd both be bankrupt and lose everything. I've sacrificed a paycheck for the last 5 years, to keep our "dream" alive - now it's more of an obligation than anything. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do - but I can't live on this - not yet. And I can't live on air until it turns a profit or has enough cash flow to give me an income. It was our investment in our future, built on a shoestring budget (1/3 of the normal startup budget) and it was built on a ton of sweat equity. It has worth now - more than enough that when sold, it should pay off our debts and leave us with a small nest egg apiece. That's why we're trying to sell it - to get out from under it and have a fresh start. I know if I come away with a few dollars in my pocket I will be prudent with them - but if XH carries on his path as he is, that will all be gone and then some, in short order.

I almost thing God is dragging the sale of the business out in order to give XH time to get his act together. We've had situations like this before - where things take a long time to come together - but in the end, we realize that there was a bigger picture that had to come together first. I believe this is the same thing. I just hope that I can keep it together long enough so that I don't end up down the drain along with XH.

It's hard to always be the strong one, the responsible one. That's just the way it has always been. Good thing *I* can rise to the occasion - or we'd really be in a pickle.

JinGA

Jin - It seems like you want to respond to him. To let him know how you feel about his actions. I don't think that's totally out of the question.

Can you do it in a way that won't put him on the defensive? Avoid all "you" statements and replace them with "I" and "me". And avoid anything that might sound self-righteous or indignant. Don't refute. Let him know that you are HURT. It hurt to be called such nasty names. It hurt to be accused of using the kids as a weapon against him. Even in the worst of times, those comments would hurt. But this time they were especially painful because you had felt a new bond growing between you two. You were enjoying his company - both professionally and personally. Then to hear those words - ouch.

How would he respond to something like that? Personally, I know that when another person says "ouch" to me rather than giving it back, whatever was fueling my anger and sense of entitlement to lash out, is gone. POOF! Just like that. It's a shame that more people don't react like that in confrontational situations. I'm trying to get better at it myself.

I've been pondering an email to him - I am just tossing thoughts around in my mind, haven't written anything down yet. I'm trying to get my morning work done, and in between I'm posting here - also in an effort to organize my thoughts.

Typically, no matter how tactfully I word something - and yes I know about using "I" statements versus "you" statements - usually such an email comes back with, "As always, it's all my fault" and some other defensive crap. So to answer your question, when he's in this "mode" - not much gets through in a constructive way, which is probably why I haven't gone there.

I can't leave it all unanswered - I do need to know about his intentions regarding the business and when he'll be gone. I may compose an email but not send it til tomorrow evening if he does not show up here.

One day of huffy departure is cooling off - and to a point I can see that it was better for him to leave and blow off steam, than stick around and have us jab sticks in each others' eyes. However if he doesn't come in at all tomorrow, I think it's reasonable for me to pose the question asking him to state his intentions, because from a business standpoint, if I'm left holding the bag again, it's only reasonable that I know. If I jump the gun and make assumptions about it today, that will only piss him off further and he's more likely to go on strike out of spite. It's like a chess game - I need to wait for him to make the next move, before I decide what my next appropriate move will be.

I really don't want conflict. I would like for him to apologize for the obscenities, but I understand and accept that he's disappointed and angry with me. It's logical to me that he *should* have discussed his intentions with me before any plans were made, and this huge brou-ha-ha could have been avoided. Well he'd probably have had a fit over my reasons anyway, but he does this - makes plans, tells the kids, *then* tells me. That's the wrong way to go about things. I've asked him in the past to check with me first, and when he's OK, he does that and we can usually strike some sort of agreement or compromise, but this situation has no compromise, IMO. The one I suggested was that if he wanted to travel to his family for his vacation, that it would be absolutely fine to take the kids. But he's got his own agenda. This vacation has absolutely nothing to do with the kids, and everything to do with his relationship with his GF. The kids don't need to be a part of that at this point, and they don't want to be.

Not knowing the dates still - it may have all been a moot point as DD has band camp coming up and the whole thing may not have even been logistically possible, and all this nonsense was for naught. But he didn't think about anybody but himself when he concocted his plans, and that's typical of him when he's in this frame of mind. Didn't think about the kids, didn't think about the business, didn't think about me... just thought of himself. Nice.

I'm just going to muddle through my day here - and perhaps later I'll draft an email, but wait to send it til I see what happens tomorrow. I still may send it, but modify it if he does come in tomorrow night.

I will be asking for an apology for the obscenities if he doesn't offer one - that much was way out of line. If he refuses, he refuses, and I'm not sure what, if anything I should do about it if that's the case - retaliation won't work and it will only hurt me further if I refuse to work with him, I'll be stuck alone in the business again. I'm sort of caught between a rock and a hard place - but at the very least I will have to tell him that I am not going to tolerate that kind of language.

There are days when I wonder if he's ever going to realize what a fool he has been, and is being? He's fighting so hard to keep his R going - I wish sometimes he'd had that kind of "fight" in him to save our M, and I wonder why he didn't. He wasn't well at the time - and I don't think he's well right now - but in a different sense. I feel kind of sorry for him actually. He has no idea of the damage he's doing, and he's putting all his effort into somebody that didn't even care enough to clean up her mess when she left him.

It's tragic, really.

JinGA

Well I went ahead and emailed him. I was very careful in choosing my words, used *I* statements and such, and accentuated the positive things that have happened lately, explained that it was not my intention to hurt him - but at the same time I explained that his obscene tirade was hurtful.

I also asked what his schedule would be.

He replied with an apology for the angry outburst, and while he was hurt and angered by my decision, he accepted that he can't do anything about it and said he would not bring it up again. He said he might have more vacation time that he'd like to take the kids home to camp with his brother, and gave me the dates of his upcoming vacation - nearer than I thought it's in less than 2 weeks and he pucuated that with "tentatively" (not sure what that's supposed to mean...)

He stated that he would resume his schedule in the business as he has had it for the last several months, and also asked about a customer issue he left hanging yesterday.

I replied thanking him for the apology and expressed a desire to avoid situations like that again.

I've said that the camping trip should work if it doesn't conflict with DD's camp schedule.

Then I went so far as to ask again if he could afford me a few days off of my own, and I asked again about this Saturday, and if he is unwilling to accommodate these requests I'll accept that. The few days off that I want may not be able to happen as my Mom has travel plans too and if the time I can get doesn't jive with that it may be a moot point, but I asked for that to be considered anyway.

He hasn't responded yet to my second email - but at least we're back to being constructive, albeit "all business"

In my original email I did tell him that I have done my best to be supportive and a safe place for him to express himself, and when he's felt pain, I've felt pain with him. That I'm still on his side, even though he may not always see it that way.

One of us had to throw out an olive branch, and I believe I did so without compromising my own values, needs and expectations.

Hopefully all this will count for something farther down the road.

JinGA

The apology and agreement to come back to the store are nice. Too bad you had he didn't take the initiative, but like you say; baby steps.

Well I'd like to think that he'd have come to that on his own, by tomorrow. I'm just not that patient. Besides, in doing this I addressed these things on my own terms, in words that of were my own choosing, without having been on the fly and saying the wrong thing.

He hasn't answered my other email yet but he's likely busy at work. We'll see what he says.

I'm feeling kind of discouraged, but relieved at the same time - if that makes any sense. I guess this is going to be a bit more "calm before the storm". It's hard to stay hopeful when he's he11-bent to go out there to see her.

Makes me wonder what is so great about her that he'd do all of this to keep it going? He's got everything right here - everything that we built together, our family, our home, our business, right here under his nose. I've been the best person I can be with him - and yet he still doesn't see or appreciate any of it - he only sees this woman who continues to take advantage of him. What's she got that's all that?! I've seen people in recovery post here that they felt the same way at times. It's hard to say if I should just stay the course and wait for it all to come around again, or just suck it up and deal that I might be the one beating the dead horse here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

He answered my other email. He has agreed to cover for me Saturday although begrudgingly. He always has a hard time working the place alone - yet I do it all the time. I wish sometimes that he would acknowledge or appreciate all that I do here. The last time he commented on it (back in March) he said I was lazy and did nothing all day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Back at that time I think he was angry at somebody else though, because a ton of what was said back then made no sense at all to me, but it might have applied to someone who was away at the time, and therefore not there to receive the brunt of his ire.

We're also negotiating time for a few days off for me. I asked what possible dates, so I can check with my Mom's vacation schedule (she's retired, but she has travel plans coming up) and it may not work between kids' schedules, his schedule and Mom's - but it's worth a try. I'd give my right arm to get away for a few days and I haven't been back to my home turf since we moved here 7 years ago. If that's meant to be, we'll put it together. He said his "extra" vacation time is flexible, so we'll see.

I've told him I appreciate those things.

I'm also glad we're back to negotiating things and he's more receptive to working *with* me, than *against* me - I just hope that sticks, but I'm a little bit afraid to plan too much in case the other shoe drops and things change.

Sucks to be in limbo like that - but I'm going to do the best I can.

I do believe that in due course, after he's traveled out there and back, that eventually things with the GF will unravel for good. Of course if/when that happens, that doesn't automatically mean he'll wake up and realize that his future is with me or the family - that's still a huge variable, and at this point he may never even consider reconciliation.

Anyone reading who's been there, done that, how did you know? How did you know to keep trying, to keep the faith? Or if it was definitely done for good - how did you know?

I know those answers won't necessarily answer my questions, but I'm just trying to figure out how so many here have got themselves into recovery (or finally learned to move on) after being stuck where I'm stuck right now.

Just because someday his fog will likely lift, isn't a guarantee - there are no guarantees in life at all.

I want to keep trying, I still love him despite the fact that he can be an @$$ sometimes (and I've had my moments too *g*)... I could use a bit of wisdom and inspiration <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Wait. GF doesn't work or drive, but YOU'RE lazy????

Yep, apparently. I spend about 70 hours a week in the store. No I'm not *working* every one of those hours, I slack off quite a bit, but I put in the time and I've served all the customers, done the invoicing, ordering, collection calls, cleaned the toilets, swept the floors, vacuumed and all that other good stuff for 5 years. I take down time when I can get it but there are days when I don't stop. I have a hard time keeping up with all the upkeep of the store on my own - it's hard to get into cleaning a fish system when the phone starts ringing and clients come in, but I've done the best I can, sometimes with little or no help. I have one paid employee who does out-calls, in fact I'm going to join her on one in an hour or so because she needs an extra pair of hands. Otherwise it's all me - I do all the admin except for annual inventory (XH does that), and all the daily junk that it takes to keep a small business up and running.

Then I go home and expect my kids to do their share of the chores, and I still have to run my household, pay my bills and keep my place up, take kids to activities, kick their butts when need be and all that other good stuff.

Sorry if I sound like I'm tooting my own horn here... perhaps I am. But we started this business with 1/3 the suggested startup budget, and 5 years later it's worth (according to my CPA) a healthy 6 figures - if I can find a buyer for it. We do over 6 figures in sales every year, and grow every year.

This business was *our* dream together, and I'm darned proud of what it has become, even though it's still a struggle at times. I've put in my hard work, and continue to do so, and if I fudge a little on a slow day - so be it - I'm still here, and I still greet each customer with a smile when they walk through my door. I haven't taken a sick day (I always get sick on statutory holidays - like I save it for them!), and I seldom complain about it, although I have had some serious burnout issues in the last year or so.

I've had 2 vacations, one week at a time, in 2005 and 2006 and in 05, XH ran things and it took me 11 days to sort out the mess. In 06 I had someone else take care of things, it was fine (that person is no longer an option - moved out of state). This year I've had one Saturday off and about 2 evenings. I work 7 days a week.

Yep, I'm bone idle.

JinGA

A new day... new perspective. Hard not to get discouraged at times, but sometimes it's all in the way you look at things.

Sunday wasn't as destructive as I may have thought... in fact, I may have made a bit of lemonade with the lemons I was thrown...

1) He tried to instigate a fight - I showed him I've changed by not stooping to it. He probably didn't feel "safe" at that time - but I kept it safe, whether he realizes it or not.

2) It prompted him to ask DS once again his opinion of the GF and DS was honest about it.. AGAIN. Repetion may make it sink in. He didn't bother to ask DD (she wasn't there and he didn't call her - I'm sure she's relieved about that because she's not wanting to be asked - she doesn't want to lie, but she doesn't want to hurt his feelings either.)

3) Monday I extended an olive branch - again showing him I am safe. I stated my thoughts telling him they were without anger or judgement. Used *I* statements. Stated my business, offered an apology for something I did before that he may have misconstrued (I told the kids he'd paid off a debt and he was taken aback a few weeks ago when DS mentioned it to him). I apologized if this was a breach of confidence - that wasn't my intention. I told him *I* was proud of him for taking control of his situation and making a bad situation right again, and I wanted his kids to be proud of him, and they are (ADMIRATION). I told him that if this was inappropriate to him, I would not repeat it (he never addressed this in his replies to me - but I put it out there, clearly it bothered him so I felt I should explain my motives).

4) I expressed appreciation for all that he has done around the biz lately, and for us working together on the recent issue with the kids. (More admiration!) I also stated that it's important that we remain united for the kids as they enter the turbulant teenage years (reinforcing that his KIDS need him now more than ever, without "nagging") - I phrased all of this very positively and respectfully.

5) Concerning his tirade - I did not *ask* for an apology as such - however I did tell him that the comments hurt my feelings (expressed my boundary there), and they were un-called-for. I stated that when he reached out to me, I offered sympathy and support and a safe place to express his feelings. When he struggled, I offered help. I've offered companionship, friendship, moral support and other help. I also told him that I still care for him very much, and that while he may not always believe it, I AM on his side.

6) When he replied, he stated that he is angry and hurt by my decision (which I had already acknowledged - so we "agree to disagree".) He said that since he can't do anything further about it, that he will not bring it up again. Good - puts the past in the past, no grudges. He owned his tirade and admitted that it was lashing out in anger and that he was sorry. Of course that doesn't make it "ok", however for XH to promptly recognize *where* that came from, own it for himself and apologize for it is a HUGE thing. Historically he wouldn't apologize and if any mention was made of it, he'd blame me for it. I heard no blame in it at all. Yep, he was mad, which was to be expected. He acknowledged that was the "place" that those outbursts came from, and in my eyes now he is forgiven for it because he did own it and apologize.

7) I expressed a desire to avoid similar situatons in the future. I explained that I have been working on my skills to resolve conflict (reinforcing that I am safe), and that I do believe that while we won't agree on everything, such conflicts *can* be resolved with careful consideration.

8) From there, he assured me of several concerns that I'd brought forth (the potential for problems with the mortgage payment, as what happened last year), he told me his schedule, and expressed a desire to spend extra time with the children. I gave him positive feedback on all of those things (although I don't think DD's camp schedule will work with that - but he cannot blame me for that).

So all in all - I'm thinking that quite a few positives may have resulted in that unpleasant situation. He saw for himself how I dealt with things. He let his own anger go a lot more quickly than he used to, and he was willing and able to negotiate quickly, without harping on what had just happened.

Contrast that with the nattering and grief he's probably getting from GF, or will get when he's not packing his bags to move right after he gets back from vacation... I may end up looking better than her sooner rather than later.

Even if I don't look "better" to him just yet - at the very least even if reconcilation isn't possible for him, we have just demonstrated that our way of dealing with conflicts is improving. I know I've done a lot of work on myself in that regard - he's got a bit of catching up to do, but I can really see good changes in him, in spite of Sunday's ugliness - the outcome was repaired a lot sooner than is typical.

Thoughts?

JinGA

My thoughts are selfish. That if you guys can get it together and pull off an R, my W and I should be able to as well someday. Meaning, I have read about and witnessed some HUGE challenges that you have worked very hard to successfuly overcome. From your last post, it appears as though your XH has overcome quite a few things as well. I'm pulling for you both not just out of empathetic concern (it's in there), but also that selfish desire see two people with even bigger hurdles to jump make it through successfully.

I also admire your positive outlook and spin on things. The ability to make lemonade out of the lemons as you put it. I suspect that attitude will serve you well in dealing directly with your XH and anyone else that comes along. I learned that people like to be around others who are secure and positive. I guess it engenders a sense of safety in others. People feel drawn to that type.

Well the burning question that only XH can answer (and he can't answer it right now) is if/when the house of cards falls down with GF, does he still have feelings of love for me?

Nobody knows - even he doesn't know right now, because if he did, he wouldn't be going anywhere. With all the mixed signals I've been receiving from him, particularly in the last few months, I'm sure he's got a lot of conflict going on.

I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. He's got his heart tied up in a woman who had no problem shutting off emotionally when she told him she was leaving (he told me this) - yet for whatever reason, they maintain contact. He's got a no-win situation concerning living arrangements if he is to continue this relationship - leave his kids to go with her? He's playing an emotional tug-of-war with himself on that, and she's probably tugging too - and I know the kids are tugging back without their even trying.

He's hearing things he doesn't want to hear - such as DS telling him he doesn't like the GF. He's hearing stuff he may not want to hear (ILY and I still care for you) from me) and that has to throw a wrench into things at *some* level.

He's got this trip coming up, long drive, he probably has a fantastical idea of what awaits him there, but the reality of that may be not so rosy - if she's staying with family that he doesn't like, that could be more stress, and once the vacation/fantasy is over, then what does he have to look forward to?

He's got a *LOT* on his mind right now and he's got to be stressing over it.

The fact that he is so stressed about those things, makes it even that more impressive that we were able to dig ourselves out of the uncomfortable rut that we dropped into on Sunday.

He needs time to do this. He needs time to figure out where to go from the end-point of his vacation. For the last couple of months he's had that to look forward to (as has she) - but once that's over and done with, he'll be at a crossroads, I think. I don't know if he's thinking that far ahead yet or not. He can be very shortsighted at times, but he can be a deep thinker at times too. I have no idea where he's at right now on that.

Until he goes, I'm just going to keep on trying to show him that I *am* safe, that his kids need him, and if I get more lemons, perhaps I'll try making a pie this time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BTW - DS went back over to XH's last night (a good thing) but DD declined to go, but cited no particular reason. I suspect it's because she doesn't want to talk to XH about the trip situation, even though I told them all about our email exchange and how we're "ok" with it now, and that their father said he would not bring it up again.

I think DS will return tonight, unless he wants to spend another night there - that's OK with me. Like I said - I'm all for the kids spending as much time with their father as they want. Reinforce that bond <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

DD can't avoid him forever. At some point XH is going to realize that he's getting the brushoff. I recommend that you be prepared for him to possibly blame you for it. I hope he's not prone to accusing you of keeping her from him. Especially if he's in one of his moods. Or worse; this trip sends him over the edge emotionally like you suspect it might.

Right now he sounds like he's moving in and out of the realm of self-absorption, so he may not even be noticing her reticence. But if he comes back feeling lonely and rejected and sensing that his DD doesn't want to have anything to do with him as well, it could get ugly. If the GF tells him to take a leap (or better, he tells her that), it would help tremendously for him to know that there are 3 sets of open arms awaiting him. GF=unsafe vs. family=safe. DD skirting around him doesn't foster this impression IMO.

As a co-parent, is there some way to encourage your DD to speak with her father and resolve this. Encourage her to be respectful and open and honest. Find out if her fear and reluctance comes from hurting his feelings or a potentially AO. Explain that there is no shame in the truth and voicing her feelings and concerns. If he's unable to accept or take seriously her feelings, then that's something HE needs to work on.

And she won't avoid him "forever" - they have library books due on Thursday and I expect that she will go on that outing as usual. And no he's not prone to accusations, Sunday notwithstanding. I have always given the kids the choice to go or not go as they see fit. We've been through this before with DD, and it usually passes, and if it doesn't pass within a few days, it's "intervention" time. I'll have a conversation with her, and if there is information that is appropriate to take to XH (with DD's knowledge), I will express my concerns to him and he's pretty good about addressing them with DD. On a couple of occasions I've had the kids write him a letter if they are really hacked off and don't want to or feel safe talking. That's been pretty nicely effective too.

I think DD just needs a bit of space - but she's not acting out or anything. I came home a little while ago with the Father's Day gift she picked out. I think she was just letting the vacation stuff blow over so she wouldn't be cornered. I'm sure this time things will be fine, but I always keep my eyes open, and do my best to work amongst all of us if some "facilitating" is needed to get things back on track.


The kids and I are united on that. We are all doing what we can to let him know in the bigger picture, that we are his family and we are here for him. DD's withdrawal is temporary. It could also have more to do with herself than her father - she's got a boyfriend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Been there, done that. We've had that conversation a couple of times. And I agree with you 100%.

I've seen worse situations with the kids and their father. I think we're all just eager to have the vacation stuff over with - and we're all dealing with it in our own ways, but we are united in how we feel.

JinGA

Don't you just want to shake the ever living He11 out of him and scream, "DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THIS STUPID VACATION OF YOUR'S IS DOING TO YOUR FAMILY?!?!?!?!"

Okay, that was all fantasy. Nothing in there that I would actually recommend. LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

More like, "DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THIS STUPID RELATIONSHIP OF YOURS IS DOING TO YOUR FAMILY????"

But that would be a huge DJ and LB. That might feel therapeutic for me, but it wouldn't score me any points.

Need to catch the flies with honey, not vinegar.

I'm trying to channel all that negative energy and frustration into something positive - so I've been reading and reading here. I started another thread asking Pepperband for some insight and she's directed me to some articles and a thread here - I'm consuming that right now with gusto.

I'd much rather spend my time learning about what got us here in the first place, and what *could* possibly get us back on track, than releasing the hounds of my temper <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Besides, I can't "fix" him - I can't control him. I can only fix and control me - so that's precisely what I'm doing.

And it's actually kind of soothing.

JinGA

Another day.

He was late tonight - late meeting at work. He didn't stay long, but all was normal again between us (whew). I went over a few customer issues etc., and he kind of stayed in the back and I was slammed with customers. Some days he just doesn't want to deal with people, so he doesn't. He left in the middle of a rush so I didn't even get to ask him if DS was coming home or staying another night with him. I guess he's staying another night as DS hasn't come home yet.

That's OK with me - DS can stay there and keep his father company - I think that's a *good* thing. That and DD and DS have a break from one another - anybody with kids, or siblings of their own can appreciate that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

I think that DS staying with his dad is great. It doesn't you worry you though not knowing for sure where he's going to be? Am I too much of a worrywart?

JinGa,

No more helping out the WS. Help you H but NOT the WS. No bailing out $$, no extra kid time, don't be flexible because if you notice, the more flexible you are the more angry he gets towards U!

He whines, give him toilet paper (industrial strength kind). He isn't fit for kleenex. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

As for the DJ's, well with a WS everything a BS does is considered a DJ to a WS when we all know that's not true. So you say what you need and mean what you say. Be comfortable with that. If it hurts his feelings, tell him it's meant to hurt the WS in him but it would not hurt your H because your H would NOT want you to put up with such a jerk.

Stop working so hard to cushion his blows. Kick 'em back. Give him back his guilt.

You are in a better position right now because he whines easily which means he is vulnerable and weak. That is a good position for the WS t/b in. Good for you and your family.

Keep pummeling the WS, maybe he will leave and your real H (even the D one) may come back to his senses.

If you placate him, what reason are you giving him to give up his selfish WS lifestyle?

L.