Well timing *is* important. He felt like crap last night when he arrived - although he looked better when he was leaving. I think our time together did him good - even if it was just the fact that he got out of his apartment for a little while and had some human interaction.

The only real times I see him is when he's here at the shop, during open hours. Most weeknights he doesn't stay til closing, and I had someplace I had to be after closing (friend's son's b'day - started 2 hours before I could get there). Also I wasn't looking my best (grubby work clothes), and he wasn't feeling his best, so that wouldn't have been the best time to open that door.

No - on the weekend I will have more opportunity. He's here til closing and I can approach him at that time, so we can stay and talk after the threat of interruptions from customers is over. It's equal turf for us - non-threatening to either of us - like I said, we've had many important talks here - including separation, divorce, and we have resolved many things in this place too.

By then he'll be feeling better, and I can dress up a bit more - wear a nice blouse instead of this company-issue golf shirt. I did all that on Monday when I was ready to try to talk - but Fate didn't smile on me that night <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Meggy is right - at the very least if he does opt to carry on with his plans, he'll already know where *I* stand in the back of his mind, and it will perhaps cast a new perspective on his R with GF, particularly in the bigger picture.

Once it's all on the table though, I'm not going to sit here and pine forever. I'll give it some time - even if he chooses to make the trip, I'll leave the door open for a while. But if after a couple of months after his return, nothing is moving forward, I'm just going to have to acccept that while I opened the door, he isn't willing to walk through it, and just deal with that. I'm OK on my own, and I will continue to be OK on my own, and I'll just have to move toward filing away those feelings at that time.

Then again, if he does choose to walk through that open door, I'm going to do my darndest to make sure I don't let him down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm going to put all the things I've been learning and continue to learn, into practice, in high gear. Why? Because I *want* to.

JinGA

OK... so now that I've got a plan...

Any "Do's and Don'ts"

I do want to be clear about how I feel and what I'd like: I still love him with all my heart, and I'd like us to give our marriage another chance.

I do NOT want to push or force. I don't want to drag GF's name into it at all. This is not about her, it's about him and me.

I do want to leave the ball firmly and clearly in his court. Once I've given him the letter and said what I have to say, I don't necessarily expect him to have anything to say at that moment. If he does, I will listen, but if he doesn't, I will leave it with him.

I was thinking of leaving it with him by telling him that I will give him time and space to think about it, and if he wants to explore the notion of reconciliation, that he should make the next move... something like, "Ask me on a date. I'll say yes." Then there is no question, and I won't drag the subject up again. He can think about it and decide what he wants to do, without being pressured into anything.

If he asks me on a date, great. If he doesn't then I just know my answer and I don't have to revisit it all over again for "closure"... I'll have it.

Any other tips? I could use all the ideas you can throw at me. I won't make the conversation hours long - rather, I want to be as clear and concise as I can be, as loving as I can be, without making it all maudlin and dramatic. I just want to do this *right*.

JinGA

A little while ago I sent him a short email asking how he's feeling and if he made it to work today.

He replied that he did get to work, but he's feeling worn out and likely won't stop by the shop tonight.

I replied in kind saying it will probably take a while before he's feeling 100% - do what he needs to do, to take care of himself, and that I'll take care of things here. I mentioned an issue he's got to manage here, that it's still ongoing but can likely wait til the weekend if need be.

At least he answered me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> In the past when I've sent him notes like that they've gone unanswered. Another baby step - at least he knows I'm thinking about him.

JinGA

I don't know really. Maybe approach it like a sales presentation? That's essentially what this is, right? You are "pitching" an R at him. Study up on how to give a presentation and incorporate the MB and Al Turtle stuff.

Go for clarity and plain spoken language. Don't leave things open to interpretation and just assume he knows what you're getting at. Ask him direct open-ended questions, not ones that are satisfied with a simple yes or no. He sounds like he gets away a lot with simple shrugs and headshakes. At least from your stories. I think you would want him to communicate with O&H; even if it's to explain to you exactly why he does NOT want an R with you.

You are seeking one of two things here; an R with your XH, or closure to the idea. The last thing you should want is more ambiguity. I'm not saying to push him for an answer right away. Just make sure that you come away from this experience knowing that he is definitely understands where you stand. You DON'T want to second guess whether or not you got your point across.

Like I said, something just short of landing lights on the bedspread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Exactly. Until now I've been dropping hints, now I'm just going to put it out there in plain English.

I suppose it is a "pitch" - but I don't want to come across as all business and practicality <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It's not something I can script beyond my letter - but my letter doesn't spell it out that I want to get back together with him.

No I'm not looking for ambiguity - I've had plenty of that with all the mixed signals he's been giving. But dropping this in his lap such as I am, I don't expect him to make a snap decision either, although it would be great if he would respond with, "Wow - I've felt that way too - let's go for it!"... I'm totally not anticipating that. I had hoped for something like that last time and I was bitterly disappointed when he told me he'd think about it. I'd hoped for the storybook ending where he'd drop GF like a hot potato and jump right into making things right - but at the time that was an unrealistic expectation and I set myself up for it. I did wait a little bit before deciding to proceed with the divorce - papers had been filed at that point and it could have still been stopped, I talked with him that time a month before the D, and I waited a couple of weeks after we talked and his *actions* at that time prompted me to decide to proceed. He paid his GF rent instead of his own bills, and without legal separation here, I went ahead in order to protect the roof over our heads - literally.

At the time I made that decision, I wrote him a letter telling him that while this wasn't what I wanted, given the circumstances, it was what I needed, and that I would try to remain open to R down the road if he so chose it. That was 18 months ago. Then after the D he moved GF and co. here and that brings us to where we are today, and I had resumed the R I'd been in in the interim too - and that's over well past 6 months now, NC and no desire to - ever.

No I don't want there to be any question about what I'm talking about - but I don't want it to be a cold, unfeeling sales pitch either. There has to be a foundation in love before any of the practical stuff can be applied - otherwise it's just a convenience or a business arrangement - and I don't want that. If it's not the real deal, I'll pass.

Heck I could talk all day about the practical reasons why he'd be better off working his way back home - our kids, house, money... sure on paper the pitch would be a snap - who wouldn't prefer their house to an apartment, financial stability versus chronic overdraft, people to come home to versus an empty apartment... but those reasons, while they are "selling features" aren't the crux of the issue.

And the fact that he chose his R with his GF at the time, when he could have chosen all those other things, makes me wonder if things between us were that irreparable in his mind and heart (at least at that time), that he opted for the warm fuzzy of a long-distance relationship with someone who wasn't even in the same intellectual league as himself, over the home and family we'd worked so hard to achieve together.

Therein lies my fear - that he'll choose her *again*. I just need to face that fear. She's there. I'm here. His home, his family, the potential for economic prosperity and all the other 'fringe benefits' are here - IF he has it in his heart to find that love again, and commit to working together to rebuild what we both had a hand in destroying.

JinGA

Another thing that is different *this time around*: He's already lived with her and her kids. Even though he's still hanging on to whatever form their relationship takes now - he had a full year of living with her, her not working, her kids, their issues, the financial struggles, the *reality* of what life was like with her and her kids.

In spite of all that, he's still working on the current form of their relationship - the long-distance part, and that still has me puzzled.

However this time, if he's looking at "choosing" - he's no longer comparing real life reconciliation, with the fantasy of what was to come with the GF, because last time, that R was in its infancy - still in the "butterfly" stages. It's no longer there. He's got (or should have) a clearer picture of both possible scenarios:

Working his way home - back to his kids, his home, a chance at his R with me being better than the M was, even during the good times (because we're both older and wiser now). Financial stability and us working as a team in every sense again - not just in the business.

Moving to be with her, giving up his job, and possibly his career (unless he can find something equal/better there, and have to start again), dealing with her kids, their fathers, her family, her issues...him being the sole supporter (she didn't work), her providing him with little to no DS, FS...I hope he doesn't think things at home with her would be any different if he moved there, than when she was here. There she's got her friends and family - here she didn't have anybody else except him.

To me it's a no brainer.

To him... who knows?

JinGA

I'm not sure that I made myself clear on the sales pitch part. Who says something like that has to be cold and business-like? I am suggesting that you PREPARE yourself like you're giving a pitch. Be prepared. Lay out what you want to say, at least in outline form, on paper and go over it all until you know it like you know your own name. Don't put together a PowerPoint presentation or anything - LOL! Just have what you need to say in mind and stay on track. Don't let yourself get distracted with tangents and anecdotes. You can use those, but they should be strategically placed in order to elicit a response from him.

Just doing this won't devalue the message or make it any less sincere. It's nothing more than preparation for how you really feel and what you really want. Sales isn't inherently calculating or dispassionate. It's just that so many people are so bad at it.

The best salespeople are the ones who actually believe in their product. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That's what I'm trying to do without having a Cliff's Notes book in front of me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The last time we had a big serious discussion like that, I actually did make notes, because I was upset, emotional, having a hard time keeping on track, so I actually wrote down all the pertinent things I wanted to say, because I didn't want to miss anything.

We sat, I had my notes, and I went over things, point by point. Of course at that point I was explaining why I felt I had to go through with the divorce - I wasn't really caring too much about "presentation" - if you know what I mean.

I'm trying to gather my thoughts, focus only on the things I need to say and want to say, and leave all the other stuff and nonsense out of it.

Is it reasonable to tell him that I feel that if we could both commit to rebuilding our relationship, that all the "frills" could be his again? Or is that unfair? I don't want to focus on that stuff - and it's obvious that "I" come as part and parcel of the whole kaboodle... or should I just stick to the emotional facts of the matter, my feelings, and what I'd like us to try to do, if he wants to try to do it?

JinGA

Stick to what you feel and what you want. Then ask him what he thinks about it.

Heh the answer is what I fear <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know - I'm being ridiculous. Winston Churchill said there is nothing to fear, but fear itself. He was right.

I'm afraid he's going to look at me like I've got two heads and tell me never in a million years.

Of course at least knowing that beats the heck out of not knowing.

I will say this - when I finally do put it all out there, once again, if I'm shot down, I'll take the hint and not ask again anymore. I'll continue to behave toward him as I have been, I'll just extinguish the "hopeful" part and try my best to let it go.

He may not know what to say or think, and that's why I'm nervous about actually asking him to respond, at least initially. Pressing him for answers never worked in the M..."Why are you doing this?" always got, "I don't know." and very closed body language and him staring at the floor. I don't want to prompt that in him this time. The trickiest part is initiating this without sounding the alarm to get his defenses up. I think if I can get a foot in the door without that wall going up, I'll be able to state my case and take it from there.

However if simply asking him if we can talk makes the wall go up, I'm going to have a heck of a task before me.

I'm hoping that all the 'ground work' I've done lately to show him that I'm safe, pays off. If he doesn't feel threatened or defensive, he'll be more likely to actually hear what I have to say and think about it. If the walls go up, likely whatever I say will go in one ear and right out the other.

It's not always this hard to initiate a discussion with him, it's just that this time I'm taking sort of a risk. I think once the ice is broken there - IF there's reconciliation to be had, while I know that's when the real work begins, I think talking to him about things will be a whole lot easier going forward from there.

I guess it comes down to when *I* feel safe.

JinGA

I've been reading your posts and the responses of others and please excuse me if I come in unannounced and unknown but I have a different take on this....... I might be totally wrong, but I'm going through a similar situation (sort of).....



Since you have been patient this long, what will it hurt to let him work out all of his feelings and relationship status with this girl.chances are good it won't go much further and then you can let him get through the emotions of that loss and when he is healthy again you can approach him with all the love in your heart.

To me, it seems like laying it all on the line now when he is still wrapped up in her might be like throwing your words into a strong wind. They will be lost on him. His head is not on you now. He might even resent you putting additional pressure on him when he is trying to figure out what is going on with her.

Does this make any sense. And even if it does it's only my take. Obviously you know him not me...

I'm hoping my former husband will return but I'm purchasing a house on the 26th and he might be moving to Europe but it's up in the air with his company. I've told him I would move with him if he wanted me to but that was several months ago. I don't want to push anything, but mostly it's because I'm not quite ready to hear "no". I guess I'm hoping if I don't push him into telling me yes or no, then it gives him more time to consider everything in his life. I'm having a hard time being patient, I'm moving on with my life but I'm ready to turn on a dime if he choses to return.

I left him though, then I realized my mistake. No other people were involved, just my crisis of sorts....

I wish you the best. I don't know how you are able to be around him all the time, especially when is GF was right there. Anyway, I guess a good question to ask yourself would be

If your BF was still in the picture and you were having difficulties with him but still wanted to see how it turned out, how receptive would you be to your ExH telling you he wanted you back.....


Anyway,,, I hope you are well.

Cj

I'd like to add,

Although someone else wrote that they missed out on something that could have been wonderful because of not taking the chance to lay it out there, you are in a different situation, you still see each other almost daily. You have opportunities to fill his love bank (that sounds hokey!) on a daily basis. You have a chance to reconnect over and over you have a chance to be there for him over and over, you have a chance to SHOW him your love all the time.

He can't possibly think it's a good idea to move and if he does, I doubt he would have stayed had you told him all...

just a thought

Cj

Thanks for the input, MWM - all feedback is welcomed and considered.

Honestly - if XH had approached me at nearly any time during my R, I would have dropped the BF like a hot potato. I knew from the start that that relationship was temporary, and I went along for the ride - because I did care about him, and it filled a void - but I knew from the start he wasn't a man I'd marry. I was clear about that with the BF too - he actually asked me to marry him fairly early on and I told him no - at least not yet. Further into the relationship, he stopped asking - we both knew it wasn't marriage material.

I do hear and appreciate what you're saying - that's why I was asking for thoughts and feedback <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You're right - I do have chances almost daily to add to his love bank, and that's what I've been doing. I also tend to agree that if he was *really* planning on moving out there, he'd be doing more toward that goal - obviously I'm not privvy to all that he does every day, but I'm not seeing any signs that he's job-hunting or otherwise looking to pack up, sublet his apartment or anything else of the sort, that would put him closer to actually moving.

I think right now he's been short-sightedly planning his vacation (which plans keep changing!), without much thought to what happens next after that.

Inside I want to ask him NOT go go - but that would be contrary to the principles here - begging, pleading and all that stuff is counterproductive. However, if I approach it the right way, I'll be inviting him to stay... not asking him to give up something, but inviting him to something else - something that could be better.

That's why I was asking for opinions as to whether to talk to him now, before he goes, or after his return. I tend to agree with PrincessMeggy - even if he does choose to go, he'll know the whole story before he leaves and it may cause him to reconsider his "future" with her, versus a future back within our family.

I do appreciate the insight though - like I said, all points of view are welcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He didn't stop in tonight - he said he likely wouldn't but I sort of hoped he would - not to talk - no, I'll wait til the weekend for that... I just enjoy seeing him and talking to him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Hi JinGA

Are you in Ga? You mentioned the smoke a few weeks ago and I live in Ga too and it was bad. I just noticed your name is JinGA and it made me wonder....

Aaaaaanyway, I guess from my point of view and in my situation, I already have put it all on the table, I love you I made a mistake, I want you back, I'll move anywhere in the world with you, take your time and let me know....... all that.

What I'm hearing now that I must have missed from your posts before is that you have NOT put it all out there, just told him you still love him and have asked him to dinner several times.... that is not the same as telling him you want him back and in that case,,,,, maybe it is the best thing... I hope it gets him back. I know I wish mine would come back but it's looking less and less likely... who knows, he hasn't said no but he hasn't said yes.

Best of luck!

Cj......

Give Cj a cupie doll <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> "J" in GA. "J" being my intial.

I put it all on the table just before the divorce was final, 18 months or so ago. I guess it's more like 19 months now. But he was about 3 or 4 months into his relationship with GF (we were separated for over a year before I finally filed for D, and it was 4 months from filing to the hearing - big backlog around here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

At that time he was lukewarm to it - but like I said, his *actions* told the story, so I did what I had to do, even though it was a tough pill to swallow. In hindsight looking at some of the messes he's been in (finacially) since then, I'm glad that I did this because I'd be out on the street otherwise, without the court ordered support, which we mutually had agreed to - but he would have had a hard time meeting if it didn't come right off his pay.

Since then, I have not put it all out there. I've been doing Plan A since about January - although I had been to this site before, in the beginning of April when the GF decided to leave again, *that* was when I returned here, started reading and reading and learning, and really started to understand the principles and making a conscious effort to apply them.

He returned to the business in January after 6 months "off" (pressure from GF). He was needed here due to lack of help in January so he returned to fulfill his responsibilities here. He was not really begrudging about it either - in fact DD had told me prior to that that she felt her father missed working here.. it's something we always loved to do together (the hobby and the business). For the GF he gave that up, and since he was "required" to come back - he had that to relieve the GF pressure - (ie: I forced him to come back) but I could tell he was happy to be back - you can't fake that. In the 6 months that he was away from the business, I rarely saw him at all. He'd email or call about picking up the kids, but that was it. Almost like a Plan B.

After he'd been back in the business for 1 month, the GF went home to look after her sick father or something, for 6 weeks - so from mid-Feb til the end of March, we tootled along just fine - I knew she was coming back (but hoped she'd just send for her kids!)... but he was more relaxed because he didn't have her seething there at home waiting for him to come home. He only worked weekends at first, but once she left on her trip, he started coming in on weeknights. She came back March 31 and April 3 was when he called me, and burst into tears telling me she was moving back permanently.

While inside I was overjoyed, my heart broke for him because he never saw it coming. I did - in fact I'm surprised she stuck around as long as she did. I figured it would be done and over with when she left, but nope - they're continuing on from a distance. There must be some sort of benefit to both of them in doing this - I'd bet there's a dollar-sign attached to her "benefit" - and I'm not sure why he'd hang on after being treated so badly - but he's still got an emotional attachment I guess, and he's not one to be shallow.

Left alone I do believe it will burn out eventually and that it won't last more than a couple or 3 months after this vacation, unless he totally surprises me and moves there - but like I said, I'm just not seeing that.

Meanwhile he's not out there looking for another one either (yet)... so that's a good thing.

I think if I put it all out there, he can make an informed choice. In my rosy little world, I imagine that he wants us to get back together but he's afraid that I don't feel that way and he is just as afraid as I am to put it out there, so rather than take a chance, he holds on to the crumbs he's got with the GF. After all, crumbs are better than nothing, right? (Well ummm no... )

I cannot lose what I do not have. I don't have a romantic relationship as of now - but if I put it out there, I may again. If I don't - well I'm no poorer then, than I am today, right?

JinGA

see, I always read your name as jinga.... heh heh... so we are neighbors I suppose. I'm in the southwest part of the state....

ANYWAY again, I hope this weekend brings what you have been hoping for for so long. I hope what you says gives him pause and makes him realize he is going to lose so much and for someone who seems to be a real loser....

I'll be thinking about you and hoping it works out, it will give me hope for me as well as for Seabird...His wife needs to turn around.... big time.

me

Thanks MWM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Heh I pronounce it Jinga too... just thought it was sort of a catchy pun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm in the NW part of the state - so not quite neighbours - and as many locals have put it to me, "Y'all ain't from around here, are ya?" I'm not even American (but I AM here legally!)

I hope he realizes what he has already thrown away... I know I realize that *I* had a big part in throwing it away too, although I don't think I saw it that way at the time. Back then I think we blamed each other for all of it. Over time I learned to own my part in it. I don't own all of it - but I DO own my share. I think I've learned to identify what I could have done differently, could have done better, could have done, period. Time will tell if he's owned his share (I think he has just from things he's said and done lately) - and time will tell if he's willing to risk it again to find out for himself if both our changes have stuck.

I'm still trying to collect my thoughts in what I want to say - I don't want to dredge up the past. No, I want to just talk about the here and now, and tell him how I feel, that I'd like to explore reconciliation if he's open to it. I would want to take things slowly.

We always joke that "it doesn't hurt to try"... like when somebody tries to haggle us down to a ridiculously low price on something in the shop - we'll politely counter with an appropriate offer and if the customer seems embarrassed by their lowballing, we smile and tell them, "it never hurts to try". I'm hoping that even if he says no - that he can look at it in that way too - it doesn't hurt to try, and that he'll be kind about it. More than that though, I'm hoping that he gives it some serious thought before he gives an answer. I'd rather wait for him to answer, so that he gives one that comes from inside his heart, than a knee-jerk reaction either way.

I'm aiming to try tomorrow, after closing. I just hope he doesn't ask to leave early. If he does, I may just ask him to wait, and simply tell him I'd like to talk to him. He can opt not to stay at that point - I can't stop him from leaving, but hopefully he'll at least listen to what I have to say.

JinGA

It's pretty in the NW part of the state. My dad lives up that way!

I'm in the same boat as you as far as realizing my part in the destructive behaviour in our relationship. When I first asked for the divorce he seemed to try a bit harder to do the things I used to complain about. Unfortunately I told him it was too little too late and it really kind of made me mad that he was finally trying after so many years of me expressing my unhappiness about certain things. He actually wrote to me one day while he was away and told me he didn't think he could keep blowing smoke forever. I guess he was just trying to get through the situation but not really willing to make permanant changes... For the several months prior to the divorce being final he came home after all his trips and we would spend time together enjoying each others company, we got along better than we ever did and I would tell him it's probably because it doesn't really matter anymore.. We don't have children so there wasn't much to figure out except when it was going to happen. We both talked about helping each other out to get new homes and about buying a plane and flying with each other and all the things we would do as friends....... when he left I guess I was not prepared for the reality of it and I freaked out (again) and told him I didn't want the divorce.. I had told him that prior to it being final but he felt we should go ahead with it and see what came of us afterwards. When I started begging and pleading it seemed to scare him and drove him away... When he would call I would break down in tears. I couldn't help it and I tried very hard to get a grip. We have no real plans for any future, he is flying now more than ever before and focused on making money instead of spending time with me or trying to work anything out. It's my own fault but I think my point to this long post was that I have owned my part in the break down. He seems to have turned everything around to being ALL my fault. He doesn't seem to understand his part at all. I don't talk to him about now and I suppose if he were to want to come back I would need to discuss that prior to anything happening.... His issues in our marriage are the same issues that broke up his first marriage and I'm afraid if he doesn't do something about them he will end up divorced again, if he ever remarries...

It's strange that I asked for the divorce but now 3 months later, he seems to be OK with it being over. I'm pretty sure he wanted it in the first place but didn't want to be divorced again. In fact his brother called the other night and no one told him we were divorced. I told him his brother didn't live here anymore when he said he would call back when he was home... he was shocked but he told me that while he was visiting us in August of last year that my husband told him it was getting pretty bad but he was never going to get another divorce. I guess it was a matter of pride with him. I just wonder why he didn't try a bit harder to make it better. I guess I don't understand a lot of things when it comes to my marriage to him.... And I know it wouldn't work if he came back and didn't acknowledge his part. It would be a case of me trying again and him just going along with things.. I don't want that.... I don't know what I want.

I sent him an email today with a photo of the staircase in the kitchen of the house I am buying next week. At the end of the email I told him I missed him. I dont' know if it will push him away or bring him closer but reading your thread (that I'm not meaning to hijack) has made me rethink things... maybe he does need to me to say that more often, though he did say it make him feel pressured when he hears my voice crack when we talk.. I haven't cried in a month on the phone with him though we haven't talked that much.

We were supposed to be planning a visit a few weeks ago but he stopped contact for a while and now it seems we are back to being estranged. Course that was always a problem for me in our marriage, he would go on two week trips every month then be home for two weeks and it usually seemed like we were starting over. No continuity in our marriage. I guess it couldn't be any different now that we are not married. I just don't understand. Maybe I need to move on in my life and try harder to take my focus off him. I'm drawn to these board though and it stops me from thinking about things other than my being without him.....

I'm glad you have been seeing signs of him owning his share of the problems in your marriage. Like I told Seabird in his thread, I hope you get to reap the bennefits of his changes...

Where are you from if you are not american... I'm thinking you said Canada in one of your post....

Sorry to go on and on about my situation...

CJ

No worries - and it's not a threadjack. There are some similarities to our situation and it's kind of comforting to know I'm not alone. And, if sharing our stories can add any insight - then we all help each other, right? And anyone reading who might be in a similar boat, but who hasn't posted about it yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We both did a lot of love-busting in the marriage. I think I was more inclined to own my stuff than he was, although I didn't take full ownership of my part in it for a long time.

I was more like, "Well if YOU would do this, then I would do that.. and since you won't do this, I won't do that."

Sometimes one or the other has to bend a bit in order to break that chicken-egg cycle. I think over time I got tired of always being the one to bend, then when I stopped bending, I broke.

XH blamed me for many of the things that were really caused by his depression, and he owned them in an email to his mother a few months after we separated. He shared that correspondence with me - so it was an acknowledgement of sorts and maybe even an apology - albeit not a direct one.

And, like I said, at the time if he was trying to repair things, he did it in a roundabout way, and I either didn't see it or didn't want to see it at the time. It may have turned out differently if he'd been more direct.

My XH too, didn't tell his family about the separation for a long time. I remember one day, a couple of months after he moved out (and we "lived" as separated for a long time - separate sleeping arrangements etc.) his mother called him here at the shop because she hadn't heard from him in a while, and he dropped it on her like a bomb - she didn't know what to say. The email exchange I spoke of in the last paragraph, transpired shortly after he told her - she had emailed him to say sorry she didn't speak to him very long - she was so shocked she didn't know what to say.

In that email exchange he had gone on to say that I'd been a good wife, I was one of the hardest workers he'd ever known (I still have the email), and that the family should not treat me any differently. Oh how I hope he still feels that way...but I don't really know. At the time I was still very hurt and angry, and I perceived it as him playing the martyr (and he may well have been)... and while it was sort of nice to see him owning some of his junk, to my face he still blamed me for everything - perhaps that's why I didn't see it as anything but a martyr routine.

It's hard to say what was real and what wasn't during that time, because so much of what he said and did contradicted other things he said and did.

I have to think that if there was *nothing* left there for me that he'd be cold and unfeeling where I'm concerned now. He's not. He's not as close as he was before GF moved here, and I half expected once she moved away again, that he'd start coming around the house again and agreeing to spending time with us as a family - but he hasn't.

He did hang around with us as a family around the time of the divorce, and he spent Thanksgiving with us as a family a week before the divorce, and Christmas right after it, even though he was involved with the GF. I put a stop to "family" stuff right after that, as I felt he was "cake eating". He was being the family man, enjoying our company and hospitality and family times, with no intention of actually committing to the family and trying to reconcile.

He has not done this now. Since the GF left, we had a family night with DS on his b'day, but he's declined my dinner invitations etc. I haven't made an invitation in about a month, and the last time he declined, I joked and asked if we smelled or something LOL and said that if he didn't take me up on an invitation soon, I'd stop asking. He shrugged and sort of chuckled at that but didn't say anything more.

Part of me wonders if he's just not interested in family things anymore, or if he's deliberatly staying away because if he does still have feelings, spending the time together might stir those feelings and thus create a conflict because he's still involved with the GF. I know, I'm "what iffing" the situation again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We're closer than we were 6 months ago, but not as close as we were around the time of the divorce - but that closeness wasn't "real" since he was enjoying the best of both worlds. See where my confusion comes in?

Tonight *could* present an interesting situation. He and the kids have plans to go to the library tonight - plans were made this morning. Normally he takes them on a night when the shop closes at 8. Tonight it closes at 6. Last time he took them to the library, he offered to pick me up some take-out, and I accepted with thanks. I think the kids were home by about 7.

IF he wanted to... (big IF)... if he were to try to take some initiative here (and this is 100% wishful thinking on my part...) when he picks the kids up about 5, he *could* invite me to join them for supper if he takes the kids to the same restaurant. Of course I would accept and the timeline would fit into the store's schedule. I don't think he's ever taken them to the library on a Friday night. DD initiated the plans because the library called to inform DS that a book he was requesting is in.

I'm not expecting this to happen - but darn it sure would be nice. As it is he may just pick them up and drop them off after the library and not feed them. OR he may want them to spend the night at his place ... I don't remember "whose" weekend it is - but we don't really keep score. No mention of their staying at his place was mentioned - but if he takes them out to dinner, I could still join them if invited and go home afterwards, and he could take the kids.

I don't even know if he'd think of that.

I'm not even sure if he's stopping at the shop tonight. I'm having an electrical problem here, I emailed him about it and I have a client who is an electrician who has agreed to come by this afternoon and take a look. XH does stop here sometimes on Fridays, sometimes he doesn't.

I won't fish for an invitation - if he does stop or call or email and asks if he can take the kids to the restaurant, of course he may, but I'm not going to ask if I can join them. He may or may not offer to pick up take-out...

Guess we'll see what happens. It sure would be nice if he'd invite me - but I'm not going to hold my breath.

JinGA