Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1881418 05/25/07 12:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
WhoMe Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
OK, So we all know that the top EN for many men is admiration. Does anyone here have any good advise how a BS should approach this realistically? Honest, it's kinda hard to admire the WS who has just stomped on your heart and wiped their feet on your feelings. I'm open to suggestions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by WhoMe; 05/25/07 12:24 PM.

I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
WhoMe #1881419 05/25/07 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
O
Owl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
Identify and openly discuss the specific ATTRIBUTES about your WS/FWS that you love and admire...you don't admire that treatment of you, but you might admire the way that they handle themselves with the kids, or with dealing with issues that you're not good at, or whatever...get the idea?

Don't discuss the negatives.

If you can't find anything about them NOW...admire the things you USED TO love about them.

Owl #1881420 05/25/07 12:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
WhoMe:

I'm really glad you fixed the bathroom toilet, it was always backing up. Instead of: "It's about time you DID THAT! I've been waiting for WEEKS!"

Glad to hear that the training you were part of this week at work went well! Instead of: "Another Training Session? Don't you know anything about your job yet?"

Thanks for taking out the garbage! Instead of: Well, you fill in the blanks.

And the reverse is true:

"Wow, this is a terrific dinner!" Even if it is hot dogs and beer.

Thanks for picking up the kids at "school, daycare, practice, etc." It made my working late easier...

Pretty simple really.

One thing to understand about EN's.

When it is your top three EN's, your spouse knows it. And when they want to hurt you, (because they had a bad day, you left the toilet seat up, got cut off in traffic, whatever) They kick that EN.

And let the $LB withdrawals begin....

LG

lousygolfer #1881421 05/25/07 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 271
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 271
Make a list of why you fell in love with him to begin with.

Share that with him.


Me = FBS age 51
FWH = age 51
M 25 years, 2 children 16 and 20
D-Day 5/19/05
Recovered and happy
eaglesoar #1881422 05/25/07 12:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,401
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,401
Some good points here and since ADMIRATION is one of my top EN's (#4) I can tell you that it filled my LB$ when my WW would praise things I did for her and some of my good qualities.

What was he doing prior to his email incident that you were proud of?

Is he a good dad?
Does he fill up your gas tank every week?
Is he smart?
Is he successful at his job?
Is he generaly good to you?

If Admiration is his top EN then he needs to be respected. I know that may be difficult in light of what has just transpired but you can compliment him on his ability to look within himself and seek guidance from others.

HTW


Married 10 years, Legally Seperated Aug 2,2006
1 year of Plan A followed by 1 year of Plan B...
...now stepping towards recovery?????
BH 37(me), WW 35, DB 7 & DD 5
My Story
My struggle with an EA
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
There was an excellent thread by someone (Hanora?) a couple years ago about admiration - "The reflection in her eyes" or something. Unfortunately, I couldn't find it with the search feature here.

The point was, even though it is hard for the BS to find something to admire right now about the WS, you can bet that the OP is laying it on thick.

believer #1881424 05/25/07 01:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
WhoMe Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
LG,

Quote
I'm really glad you fixed the bathroom toilet, it was always backing up. Instead of: "It's about time you DID THAT! I've been waiting for WEEKS

Oh My, that is sooo funny. Once, Skirmisher tried to fix the upstairs toilet and did such a wonderful job that not only did we need to hire a plumber afterword, we had to have the ceiling replaced in the downstairs closet! LMAO

I do get what you're saying here. BTW, my WH (Skirmisher) just started posting here and I have told him about you. Please post to him if you see any way of helping him. He needs some good advice from FWH's. He hasn't posted much, but he got pretty badly beaten up following his first post, and is wallowing at the bottom of a self realization pit about now.

I don't know right now if our marriage will be able to recover, but as it turns out, spending the last 3 1/2 years here on MB has made me a surprisingly stronger person. I'm going to be fine, but I want Skirmisher to get some help too. Even if we part ways, I see a very unfullfilling life for him if he can't find his way back into the light.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
WhoMe #1881425 05/25/07 02:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
WhoMe:

OUCH.

Quote
Once, Skirmisher tried to fix the upstairs toilet and did such a wonderful job


Notice the ONCE?

HE never tried it again did he?

Bet you that you reminded him of his failure on a number of other occasions didn't you? How often was that story told at the dinner table with relatives, friends, others?

See?

Admiration?

This is Admiration: "You know when you tried to fix the tiolet? And the house flooded? I wanted to thank you for TRYING! We didn't have much money then, and you really tried hard, it didn't work out, And I like the new floor in the bathroom better."

Big difference. And spoken that way at the dinner table? Admiration.

My Example:

Flamingo LB'ed all over me about a month ago. All the things I neglected around the house. (It's Tax Season, I'm not home)

She made this looonngg list of the things I failed to do. One was the pool.

Flamingo: "What are you going to do about the POOL?" (One of the pumps went bad last year and the lines clogged and opening it this year was going to be a real pain.)

LG: Well, I was going too (I outlined 2 or 3 steps I was going to take.) She cut me off.

Flamingo: "sarcasm dripping" "Why don't you just call somebody!

LG: I walk away.

Flamingo, following... What's wrong with you?

LG: Thanks for calling me incompetent.

F: I never said THAT!

LG: Oh?

There was more, but that's the gist.

Flamingo has a huge domestic support need.

AND I failed completly for many years.

And I played Golf the first weekend after the end of tax season, and didn't take care of the honey-do list.

So, she kicked me about the golf, and my inability to take care of the house.

The pool?

Sparkling clean. I did it. A repairman replaced the pump, but I did everything else.

She tells me that the pool looks GREAT, and what a great job I did.

Admiration, and her Domestic Support EN is filled as well. We are working thru the list.

In regards to skirmisher? He got his @ss handed to him. Deservedly so. For that post.

I will help how ever he wants it, but it's up to him. Whatever he did? I've got him beat. Hands Down.

So. If I can get here, so can he.

But it is up to him.

LG

WhoMe #1881426 05/25/07 02:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,638
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,638
I am not a WH, but I am staring down the barrel of a D that my W has initiated. One of the things I have learned throughout this experience is that the man I was and the man I thought I was, weren't necessarily the same men. I am working to become the man I always wanted to be.

Do you have a definite idea of who skirmisher wants to be? How he wants to be regarded? I'm talking higher-level stuff. Not just as a Big Dog as others here have alluded to, but to his family and to you. One of the best compliments I have ever received was from my BF and my mother both. They both said that I was one of the most moral people they knew.

I know now that I wasn't always the center of moral virtue that I wanted to be. Too many times I made bad choices rooted in selfishness and fear. I am working to dig those out and eliminate them.

Find out how your H wants to be regarded and make mention of when he succeeds at displaying some aspect of that. The point being, our sense of admiration is internal to a degree. There are some things we want to be appreciated for more than others. Make sense?

Another way to think of it... Imagine finishing up a particularly challenging project at work. Your boss comes by and says, "Just wanted to say great job on that pot of coffee you made this morning. It was one of the best cups of joe I have ever had."

What's the problem? It was admiration from your boss, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seabird #1881427 05/25/07 04:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 265
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 265
Admiration is sort of a funny one. What one considers admiration, another may not. At least as it applies to deposits.

When my wife thanks me for something I have done, it may not register as admiration. Appretiation, certainly and that's important. Tossing in detail of what she's impressed with bumps it up to bonus points though. ex. Wow!! You're ability to xyz sure has saved us a bundle, saved me time...etc.

However, if she were to indicate confidence in my ability to handle it before hand, without providing instructions, that registers pretty big with me. Especially in new territory.

ex. I've seen you do stuff like this before. I'm sure you can handle this too.

I think I would find her asking someone to come help me, without me indicating I need help first, would be a LB.


I've looked for love, acceptance, and appreciation from others. It doesn't work very well.

I've found it all inside me. The challenge is in investigating the truth of the thoughts I have that get in the way.
WindStopped #1881428 05/25/07 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,620
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,620
Admiration:

I hold you in high regard, I am proud to be your wife, when I walk into a room with you I am so proud, thank you for being such a great father and leader for our family, Your beliefs, values, principles are important to me and one of the reasons I married you and still love you, etc.

hopeandpray #1881429 05/25/07 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
From Dr. Harley to me:

The reason that I put the need for admiration at the very end of His Needs, Her Needs is that it's easy to do when the other needs are being met, and Love Busters have been overcome. It's like Maslow's point when he wrote that it's difficult to think about self actualization, when you're starving to death. I'm afraid that for now, his paycheck is the only positive that comes to my mind. But once he can change his definition of unilateral care to one that understands the ingredients of "mutual" care, I think there will be many positives that will come to mind.

Cherished

Last edited by Cherished; 05/25/07 05:02 PM.
Cherished #1881430 05/25/07 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,819
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,819
Quote
Make a list of why you fell in love with him to begin with.

Share that with him.

What Eagle said.

sdguy038 #1881431 05/25/07 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 480
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 480
Admiration could be as simple as sending a short email to his work. E.G. I send one several times a week stating, "Just a short note to tell you I think of you throughout the day."
Not the same one all the time, but it always ellicits a reply or a phone call and after time, he did the same for me and many times, before I got to it.E-cards are nice to send and receive. Sometimes I just send, "I love you, have an uneventful day" (He's in management) Sometimes I just send I love you. This is admiration. I also select a few muscular groups to make comments on, such as his calves or such. I always thank him when he cooks dinner, or does any domestic chore. It was hard for me to do this because I thought he would think I was patronizing him, but I found ways that wouldn't make it seem so. He is your other half. Yes he goofed up big time and he thought enough of you to come here and take the heat. You have to admire him for that. For cryin' out loud he got his a** handed to him multiple times and he was humbled!
Now he knows where you post and he can see what you write. I recall my kids saying "Don't talk about me like I'm not in the room!" Do you think that he thinks that?
He's seeing that you may or may not have hope for a future with him......where does that leave your marriage? Points to ponder.


Marriages don't fail, people do. (And I don't recall who said it)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
WhoMe Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
22d,

You do have some valid points. If I didn't have any admiration for Skirmisher, if I didn't have any hope left that we can fix this mess, even I wouldn't be posting here any more. He does have many wonderful qualities, always has, and in many ways we have had a happy relationship.

He does love me, I have never doubted that, even in the darkest times. But he also resents me in a big way. I have forgiven him for his affair, he only just realized, that he has never forgiven me for LB's and Angry Outbursts that happened well before his 2003 affair.

That has, in fact, left him to feel entitled, maybe even still today. I have forgiven him for the worst thing one spouse can do to the other, and he still hasn't forgiven me for things that I have pretty much stopped doing since 2003.

All of these things, leave our marriage in serious jeopardy and we both know that. We have our first appointment for a session with Jennifer tomorrow night, so we are kind of in the wait and see where the professionals think we need to go and what the first step is for us mode right now.

I agree with you that reading the input on his thread was pretty tough on him and I am proud of him for taking it as well as he did. He's not as bad as some here believe, but he has not owned up to his actions in deciding to have an affair yet, and that needs to happen before we can even begin to take tiny baby steps towards recovery. Deep down, I think he still blames me for his affair, and until that changes, he doesn't earn the F in FWH.

Who

Last edited by WhoMe; 06/04/07 03:05 PM.

I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
WhoMe #1881433 06/04/07 07:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
Who:

You posted this on nowheretoturn's thread:

Quote
LG,

And Who? Do you make more than skirmsher?

Yes. Like 10 times more. Wasn't always the case, but his 2003 affair kinda screwed up things for him in his job. OW wrote a real damaging letter to his employer exposing the affair once she realized that it really was over. Things were never the same for him there and he eventually just left. His next job just didn't work out and so he is now self employed and works from home.

Who


Responding to something else on NWTT's thread. About the inequality of the $ in the R of NWTT and her H. Which, proved not to be that far apart on her thread.

Do you want to expand on this?

Flesh it out a little? You reacted kind of critically to my post originally.

And you have'nt responded to my post on this thread about admiration.

So, what's up Who?

LG

lousygolfer #1881434 06/05/07 07:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
WhoMe Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
LG,

Wasn't trying to dis you, but I was on a cruise to Bermuda up until Saturday. For the past 3 ½ years, I have tried very hard to show admiration for my H. Even when I am trying to be really positive and to build him up, he often turns the positive into a negative. Most people who know him would never think that he has self esteem issues because he actually comes across as arrogant in professional settings. I have no qualifications to make this statement, but….from the earliest point in his life, he was always treated like he was inferior. Both his parents and even his Grandfather showed blatant favoritism to his younger brother.

One example, when he was about 6, his Grandfather took a dollar bill out of his pocket and asked Skirmisher if he would like to have it. When Skirmisher said yes, his Grandfather laughed, put the dollar back in his pocket, took out a five-dollar bill and made a big presentation of the five to Skirmisher’s younger brother.

Skirmisher didn’t imagine this and numerous other incidents throughout his life, I have seen evidence of this over and over again. What I am trying to say is that often when I am complimenting him, he sometimes hears the compliment as a criticism.

I love Skirmisher, I do admire him a great deal. He is smart, talented, and funny, and has been a wonderful father to my 2 DD’s. Yes, I am the primary income earner in our marriage and always have been. No that is not what I expected, but I am OK with it. Turns out that at least for now, I am the one with the big income earning potential.

In all honesty, I don’t work half as hard as he does, I just get paid a whole lot more. So, he hasn’t been able to provide me with financial security, ever. I don’t need financial security from him. What I need from him is emotional security. I need to be able to feel at least a little secure in my life with him. I need to be able to believe that there is hope that he can establish appropriate boundaries and be faithful to me in his mind, heart and body.

The things he has done over the years—trolling the internet, collecting phone numbers from women, having an EA and a PA, and presenting himself as a cheater to friends, has hurt not only me, but him as well. These things didn’t give him anything but a temporary ego boost and then a downward slide to rock bottom.

Skirmisher and I really are at a crossroad right now. I haven’t given up on meeting his emotional needs and being the kind of wife that any man would want to have. I have dieted and exercised my whole adult life and am still a size 4. Most people would describe me as a very attractive woman. I haven’t been blissfully happy in my marriage to Skirmisher, but I guess that I have always believed that we had the capacity to have a very good marriage. I have had many opportunities to engage in infidelity and have never once been tempted. I have my boundaries, and no matter what Skirmisher does, Who still has to live with Who, and I am not going to ever do anything that I wouldn’t want my Mom to know about!

We have our first session with Jennifer this evening and I remain cautiously optimistic….we’ll see.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I was trying to be clear.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
WhoMe #1881435 06/06/07 09:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
WhoMe Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
"Bump" for Lousy Golfer

Last edited by WhoMe; 06/06/07 09:35 AM.

I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5