Thank you.

I smiled a lot reading this. Lots to meditate on. I won't be able to get back to you for a few days. I am having an MRI scan on both hips and my spine on Wednesday. (Only took 18 months!) I'm also meeting with a priest in the morning on Wednesday. Then I see my counselor on Thursday afternoon. I am scared of what will show up on the MRI scan, to tell you the truth. I'm sitting here trying (and thankfully failing, I think) to provoke a Babinski's Reflex in my toes....But you know, nowhere else to go but into the scanner and hope for the best.-)

I'll be back.....

Per the MRI....
I sincerely hope and pray that you can find the root of the pain, and that it can be taken care of.

Will also be interested in hearing how it goes with both the Priest, and the counselor.

I'm sitting here trying (and thankfully failing, I think) to provoke a Babinski's Reflex in my toes....

I didn't know what that was, so I looked it up. It occurs to me that you must be worried. I thought about that some...... and I would guess that it's not so much for yourself, but you want to be able to see your sons grown, and married. I would guess you want to see your grandchildren, and have them know their grandmother, and benefit from her experiences.

Remember that God makes no mistakes. He will either help, or he will not, but either way, it will be for the best.

You are very kind to give me more time to finish. I'll be back too.......

SS

Greetings !!
What a lovely day today, in so many ways. I know from experience that it isn't as bad as I sometimes think. Things usually work out. If we put our trust in God, and if we do our best. If we move forward in faith, and if we have confidence, he helps us. I know he hears our prayers.

I remember a lot of things that I hear over the years. Once someone told me that having faith in God, and believing in our future was like walking into a dark room. We take a few steps in, and it looks so dark. We hesitate, and we slow down, or stop. After a while, we either get used to the dim light, and are able to walk further, or God illuminates our way, and we can see to take a few more steps. The trouble is that we want the flood lights on, when we usually get only a dim light for a few steps.
The trick is to keep taking steps, and trust the light will be there when we need it. One of the reasons I continue to encourage, is that I walk the same walk, in the same dim light. We often think of others as having few, or no troubles, and sometimes we wish we could have some of the "good" life we think others live. This world doesn't work that way. Everyone has their own cross to bear. It's different for each of us, and some of them are not so visible as others are. When I think of this, it helps keep things in perspective (for me.) It also helps to remember that HE made it, and he said "Come, follow me." He has a more clear vision than I do, and it becomes easier for me to follow him every day.

I took the time to read most of this thread over again. It confirmed my thoughts on how you are doing. I see improvement. I see less fear, and more confidence.

I really hope your counselor will help you with this part of your life. Especially this. (Confidence)
If one reads for very long on MB, one sees that having a spouse stray often shakes our self confidence profoundly.

Some never get it back.
I have a personal friend (Local, not on MB) who has been affected this way. He has struggles for more than 20 years.
You have great talent, and ability, but you don't always trust yourself.

As I said, reading back over this thread confirmed some things to me. When someone comes into my office, (speaking of my church responsibilities) and asks for help, I have to do an assessment. I have to find out if they really want to change.
If they are living their life so that God can help them.
If they have done, and are doing all that they can do on their own.......
Are they are willing to do whatever is necessary to overcome the problem they are struggling with - for instance, if they are having a problem with alcohol addiction, are they willing to go to AA?

Were I to assess how you are doing, I would answer yes to all of these.

You might say that you don't do near enough. You see your weaknesses, but please give yourself credit where credit is due. It is good for us to understand where we need to improve, and work for improvement. It is also good for us to recognize what we have done well, so we can find strength to continue. I hope you find strength.


I am starting to acknowledge that I am unhappy because H doesn't meet my needs, for whatever reason, I have to admit that maybe he isn't the right person to meet my needs and I need to stop resenting him for it.............

That is a very healthy attitude. I mean, what else can you do really, if you stay? I would expect that it will be difficult, and it won't be 100% all day every day, but it's a good start.

We spoke earlier about forgiveness. Forgiveness will be a great help to you, and will add greatly to your peace of mind. It will make it easier for you to "hear" what God wants you to do.


I just read Harley's latest newsletter about expectations in marriage - I expected that he would give me affection, that he would protect me and care for me...yes, I did expect that, strangely enough, and no, in all counts, he has not fulfilled my expectations. But that doesn't make him a bad person - you could easily judge him badly, but that would ignore all the times he tries hard to step up to the plate, which he does. I guess I think he has a few strikes against him because of his background and whatever it is he is keeping to himself, but I have to let go of resenting him for letting me down and just let it go.

Again, based on what I have seen........ most of us let our spouse down in many ways. If there were no forgiveness, there would be few intact marriages. We have a right to expect that our needs will be met. That's why we marry. I still have hope for him, because of your faith. God can, and does soften hearts.

It's just really hard for me to face up to the possibility of eventually having to say goodbye. It's easier to end a marriage when you are full of anger and self-righteousness. It's easy to throw someone out who has done the dirty on you. It's a lot harder to quietly agree that what you committed the rest of your life to is a failure for both of you and everything you invested yourself in is just a hollow shell. I guess it wouldn't be hard if I didn't believe marriage is for life. If I thought it was OK to cut your losses and just try again, I wouldn't find it so hard, but I just don't feel that way....so it really feels to me like my life as a married woman is over for good, which feels pretty hopeless. (And you said 'be of good cheer'! - well, I know what you mean, and I think these thoughts are just things I have to work through...)

These feelings are conflicting - it may be over..... but be of good cheer.
I realize you understand with your mind.
When your heart catches up, your heart will know too, and you will be able to be of good cheer anyway.
Your words here are powerful. I have no direct experience to use to encourage you, except to say that I know God, and I know he can turn every trial into good for us. I don't say it lightly, and I don't say it because I believe the theory. I say it because I have lived it, and I know it. I want you to know it too.

By now you have been into the heart of the machine (MRI) - and lived to tell about it. From my own experience, they usually don't have any information to give you for at least a week - sometimes longer. So you wait, and we wait too if we want to know what the news is.
I'll just have to spend my time pestering you about your conversations with your Priest, and counselor. ;-)

I am glad your studies are seeming to be more interesting these days. That was very good news. I encourage you to continue. I think it will help boost your self confidence as much as it will help in other ways.

Quote

As far as gardens go - the fall green beans are almost ready for the first picking. I take out the determinate tomatoes, and leave the indeterminate ones, and I put beans in place of the determanites.

You'll have to educate me in what this means...my tomatoes are always rubbish...maybe I'm doing it wrong....


I am not a pro, but I learned something about tomatoes recently. Determinate tomatoes produce one big crop, then just take up space. Good for caning - poor for having table tomatoes all summer. Roma tomatoes are of this variety (tomato sauce, ketchup.)
Indeterminate tomatoes don't produce as heavy a crop, but they continue to produce until they freeze in the fall. Good for table tomatoes, salads, sandwiches, and so on. Can also be canned if needed, but not as heavy a crop comes all at once.

I used to grow whatever, based on which ones claimed to do well in the heat. I didn't understand why they would grow a wonderful crop at first, then nothing for the rest of the summer.
Now I plant determinate to can, (we make spaghetti sauce and other things, as well as canning whole tomatoes.) When these have finished producing, I take them out, leaving a few of the other type for table tomatoes, and plant something in their place that will be of some good. This year it was green beans.

Quote

We can't really grow Salad greens very well, because it freezes in the winter, and it is to hot in the summer. Spring and fall don't seem long enough. I have tried lettuce, but never had success. I suppose one has to make do with what one has, not what one wishes for. That seems to be true with both gardens, and life.

I know lettuce has to be watered a lot, otherwise it will bolt in the heat. Also, you might be able to grow different types of lettuce, something more sturdy, like Cos lettuce. (?) It freezes here too, and I think the only greens that grow through that are the beet greens and Chinese mustard greens, and radicchio - you can cover things with plastic cloches if you want to take the trouble (do you have those? Like little portable plastic tents - they keep the frost off - or you can grow things in a "cold frame" - this is easy to make - often made with old windows or a square of plexiglass - make a wooden frame (like a box), then cover it with the window or the plexiglass - you grow the lettuce inside it - the glass acts as a mini-greenhouse and protects the plants inside from frost - you lift the cover every day with a stick to allow it to breathe, but lower the glass at night, like putting the plants to bed....

A friend of mine works in a door and window shop. He got me some big sliding door panes in the frames, and I made a cold frame with them. After one season, I decided it was too much work to move it out, and then back in place for the results I got.
If we had more room and I could leave it year round, it would be of more use to me.

Garden Photo Link
We have a walk out basement, this is taken from the upper deck.
http://www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/garden/garden.jpg


On your telling H that you were counseling.
...I don't think H has ever been much interested in me emotionally at all....he just wanted someone he could live with without too much trouble...in fact, when OS was 5 months old, he actuallly said this to me...we were having a candlelit supper before I went to the States to take OS back to meet his American family, and I jokingly asked H why he married me, thinking he would say something romantic - I was teasing him. He got very thoughtful and then said "Well, I guess I felt I wasn't so emotionally entangled with you that I couldn't live with you." It was the way he said it and the way he kind of gazed at me, like that was the real truth he had let slip out and he didn't think there was anything wrong with approaching life like that....it was so NOT like anything I had ever heard from anyone before that I was dumfounded...I didn't know what to say,................

Don't be so sure. Remember that he was not raised to feel what you were raised to feel, and express. His answer had to be consistent with the rest of his experiences. Don't be so sure he was never interested. Look to God for an answer here, he knows what you and I do not know.


I have forgotten what I did say, just that I tried to "lighten up" the mood, or explore it a little more in a light-hearted way, but letting it sink in that I thought I had heard him tell me he didn't really have any emotional feelings for me, certainly wasn't "in love" with me when he married me and that he married me because he thought I would "do", without being a lot of trouble to him. This was one of those times when I saw that "other person" come out...this is the person who has had the affairs, who refuses to engage with me, who is unpleasant and unfeeling towards me. It was like getting a peep under the shades...and seeing what H normally keeps hidden....

Perhaps that is the real H, perhaps not. I hesitate to comment, because I don't want to give false hope.

I have typed about 20 things in this space, and none of them sound good at all. I don't know what to tell you, but I know God can fix things that we can't fix. The things he said are consistent with his self image, but they may not be the truth.

Those words put a tremendous doubt into my soul about our marriage.

That would be natural, (to doubt) but remember, you have read a lot on MB, and you know that nearly every one involved in an A makes these same kind of statements, and often they are not true. He seems to have had this mindset for a long, long time.

I don't know where they came from, or why, or whether he still feels that way. I confronted him with them after he had EA2, after EA2 was over, and I asked him again why he married me and why he would have said that...he said he didn't know, that that was a weird thing to say and that he guessed he married me because he loved me....he HAS shown love to me, so I guess the best I can say about my marriage is that his feelings for me seem to have been ambivalent. As to why that is, I don't know because he won't say.

He seems to be treating you the way he was treated as a baby. It seems to fit. The problem I see is that he refuses all help to learn another way.

Love for him seems to be real only in the early stages when the "love" drugs are being pumped into his system. That would fit the three EA's.

I don't know that it changes any thing though, even if it's true.

Although he projects a lot of his own faults on to me, in the past year, he seems to have "settled" a little, and he has also said that he doesn't believe it will ever get any better...that came about when I told him months ago that I was going to talk to a priest, and that I had been to a priest 2 years ago, when I first discovered EA3, and that the priest had told me that if I was single, he would recommend to me that I leave today, but since I had children, I should try to stay with it for as long as I could stand it for the sake of the children...this priest had a lot of experience in marital counseling and he said that he had to tell me that in the cases of repeat infidelity, it rarely ever got any better....I told H this was the advice I had received from this priest and I asked him what he thought about me having received this advice...he just said softly "I think he is probably right"...

So you see that H is living here with me having given up on being a faithful husband as well....also, he has acknowledged that he is to blame, and he doesn't believe he can change, or IT will change, mainly because he resists any discussion on marriage at all - in other words, he consciously refuses to turn his mind to improving himself or his marriage - he wants only to live and work....to carry on with his jobs and do the best he can at that, because that's all he's interested in anyway - that and his sons...

So it remains for you to understand what God meant when he communicated to you to separate yourself. You may already be there - but you need to know. If you feel you do know, and are doing fine, then continue. If you doubt, and want to know for sure, I recommend fasting and prayer. (see Matt, 17:19)

In the eyes of the Church, this is not a marriage...it is a living arrangement...it is not a marriage if the husband decides he can't be faithful....the DESIRE to be faithful, even if you fail at that, is an essential component of marriage, according to the Church....my H does not have that desire, and if he married me without making that commitment, in other words, if the words he uttered were hollow because he didn't really believe them, then we don't have a marriage...it seems to me that that is a possiblity, given those words that H said to me when OS was 5 months old....

So this is why I am confused...because I have been bounced around by his on/off feelings for me for the last 20 years. It is true that I have let this happen to me, which upsets me, but it is also true that I loved him and my promises were not hollow. The only alternative was to leave him, and I didn't think that was part of the deal when I got married.

Did I ever recommend the story of Esther to you? I think it would be a good read, and of value to you. I know you read the bible, but a review of that Old Testament book may be of use to you.

And in closing......... You said in August that you were helping your sister with a family crisis, and that she had ordered "LoveBusters." I think that you said a little later that BIL was reading it, and had commented. Is there good news on that front? Was it a help to them?

I know you read it also. I hope it was of value.

SS

Thank you so much! I want to reply to a lot of the things you said to me, and I enjoyed seeing the picture of your garden...I will have to post a picture of mine!

First I have to say that I did not get the scan, and it has had to be rescheduled for 19 Nov. When I set off down the road to drive the 20 miles to the hospital 2 lane), the road was completely blocked....a serious accident and no-one getting through...so I had to turn around and go back....one man was seriously injured but his injuries were not life-threatening, thank goodness....I was very upset, though and cried all the way home, couldn't speak when I got home, and I was very grateful to H, who leapt into action, instantly called the hospital to tell them I couldn't make it, and calmed me down, made a lot of reassuring noises at me and generally acted exactly as I needed him to....I gave him a big hug later and thanked him for helping me....it's been a long time since H was there for me, and it reminded me of why I fell in love with him, because he also had this side to him a lot before....since then, I have felt better about H and have tried to show it....

Second, something has happened back home that has to do with my Dad. I won't be able to talk about this, sadly, because I don't want to discuss this on the internet. I love my Dad, and I am sad that his problems have so badly affected the lives of his family. My sister and I have been helping each other, and I am so grateful that we are so close. Sometimes you don't find out that things are meant to be a certain way until much later....although what has happened is very upsetting for us, both of us had the same experience this Sunday during church...we both felt that we were right where we were supposed to be, a confirmation that we have been living our lives the way we should, and a deep sense of peace and validation of our choice to follow Christ. I was baptized in 1982, and became a Catholic in 1984. None of my family except my BIL were practising Christians then. I moved to England in 1989. I don't remember when it was - but it had to be before 1993, but one Easter, I remember thinking, it's ridiculous you standing here in this Church and not praying for your own family, because I had always just accepted that my family were not Christian and were not likely to ever change, and I could live with that...well, on that evening, I started praying for the conversion of my family. The next day, Easter Sunday, my sister called me to wish me a Happy Easter, and she told me she had had a conversion experience the night before during Mass (where she sang in the choir as a paid soloist) - she said she was singing, when she suddenly sensed that God was calling her to come to Him...she said she could smell something sweet, like a heavenly fragrance, just for a minute, so strong that she was almost knocked backwards into her seat...she said she was overwhelmed by this and went to the priest after Mass and asked to be accepted on to the RCIA programme for the coming year. I was stunned when she told me....she was stunned when I told her I had started praying for the conversion of my family on that same night....why I have ever continued to doubt after that I don't know...because I am just so hard-headed I guess....my sister was baptized and confirmed the following Easter....after that, my stepmother converted...she started going to Mass at her local church and met a deacon who was Jewish (!)...I had mixed feelings about that, especially when she got him to bless her and my dad's marriage....she isn't an orthodox Christian, but I am not here to judge her faith....her oldest and best friend is a lifelong evangelical Christian...and after all, my stepmother lives with my Dad, which would put a strain on the most dedicated Christian....then, when my brother was dying, we asked him if he wanted to be baptized...we talked this over with the priests at both our churches, who recommended that my sister baptize him, since to be baptized by a priest would probably frighten him. My sister could not get out of a pilgrimage to Lourdes, where she was employed to sing for a group, while he was in hospital....I was afraid he would die during the days she was gone, but he didn't...she brought back a tiny vial of holy water from Lourdes, and baptized him with that when she came back. My Mom insisted that from then on, in the last 3 weeks of his life, he showed no more sign of his schizophrenia...it may be that he was too weak to be much trouble by then, but before that he was clearly delusional and difficult for the nurses to handle....I'm saying all this because it is now, when things are once again tough in my family because of Dad, that here we are, 15 years later, and both my sister and I have the deep feeling that we are right where we are supposed to be...putting our faith in our Father in Heaven....because of that, I am able to pray for my Dad, too...God really does work in mysterious ways....look! There YOU are....helping so many people here....

I know I am sounding cryptic, but all I can say is that I am deeply grateful for the faith and witness you have shared....I have the feeling that I will be able to start letting go of some things now....I am very tired now, but I WILL be back....

I will look at Esther....

LIR

So sorry that your tests are delayed. It can be very difficult to wait......... when you need relief. Glad your H helped you. I vote that he continue to help.
These medical problems can be a big drain on our strength. I would guess that this may be the primary reason you are so tired these days. Coping with constant pain drains one's energy. Do you have a new date and time yet for the tests?

Whatever it is with your father, we'll pray for him..... for all of you.

Is your sisters family doing OK these days? Is she OK?
Hopefully she doesn't take too much of this on herself.

....... here we are, 15 years later, and both my sister and I have the deep feeling that we are right where we are supposed to be...putting our faith in our Father in Heaven...........

If that is where your faith is, I believe you will make it just fine.

Prayers continue.

SS

Thank you, ss -

Yes I think the pain is a big reason why I am so tired - it is a constant pain and except for a brief respite in June-July, it has been never-ending - I have been on painkillers 3 times a day for the last 18 months. Some nights it wakes me up. I think it was worse last year, though, so maybe it is something that can be helped. I think physiotherapy made it worse. My new scan appointment is Monday - day after tomorrow. I am guessing it will take about a week to get the results. Thank you for praying for me.

I don't know what to say about my dad - you know a lot about him already - he's put his family through way too much. It's hard to understand why we all still love him. We did say that it was better for me (and for my sister) to keep some distance between us and I think that is sensible. I think he is more of a danger to himself than to anyone else, and his sense of flouting other people's morals is what lands him in trouble. I will continue to pray for him, that's all I can do.

My sister is doing OK - things in her family are improving now. I am grateful for having found MB as I have been able to help them in some small way by getting them to read "Love Busters" and "HNHN". All the things I have tried to take on board I have been able to use to help my sister, even though I haven't been able to be successful with my own H. My sister is my rock. She is the only person in my life that I trust 110%. I really don't know what I would do without her.

My H is up and down again. Ever since he helped me out, things were better. Couldn't last, though - he found a way to ruin it all last night by using a conversation about manners to have a go at me. He really does destroy any potential intimacy or affection that threatens to arise between us. I just think my H has some serious personal issues that are beyond MB principles or anything I can do for him. When I think back, although he was always difficult, he did pretty much go "off the rails" 6 or so years ago - that was when he got into a serious conflict at work. It struck me last night that he has never been the same since. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but it's as if he suffered some kind of defeat then at work, and ever since, it seems like he is taking out his anger and resentment on me - he can't place his anger where it belongs, or get rid of it, and he has turned it on me.

I'm trying to deal with the question of why I put up with it, why I haven't found the strength to leave him, or to take care of myself without him, and that's what I'm doing in counselling. I'm also starting to admit to myself that I've been through a lot in my life, and I don't have to make light of it, or pretend that it didn't hurt me. I have started trying to learn to draw and I'm enjoying that. It takes my mind off things. Today was a cold day. All the leaves fell in the night, so the boys and I spent some time raking leaves and bagging them up today....winter's coming.

Time to sleep.
LIR

I'm also starting to admit to myself that I've been through a lot in my life, and I don't have to make light of it, or pretend that it didn't hurt me.

Interesting............ and important to understand.
Must come before healing comes. Your counselor sounds good. Or are you doing this part on your own?

I would ask how your tests went, but they are probably the same any where. Never fun, and always draining. We just hope good comes of it.

Yes I think the pain is a big reason why I am so tired - it is a constant pain and except for a brief respite in June-July, it has been never-ending - I have been on painkillers 3 times a day for the last 18 months.

I thought about this one for a while. Having been through many suguries, and knowing how it is to take pain killers (I don't like what it does to my mind, so I resist taking them).... Well, I understand how it is. Depressing kind of sums it up, but it doesn't describe it accurately.

Enjoyed reading about your relationship with your sister. Makes me feel better. I may not worry as much now. <grin>

Sorry about your dad. It hurts more when it's someone close.

Closing thoughts....
I can't wait to see what you and your counselor come up with these next few months. I am excited for you.
Maybe excited isn't the right way to say it

I expect good things.

SS

Just wanted to wish you and all your family a happy Thanksgiving.

Although its hard to celebrate here because its a work day for everyone, I made a special effort with dinner - roast chicken, yams, leeks and apple pie for dessert - very American. H was more friendly tonight and chose some American music for background, also sat with me after dinner and engaged in some conversation about his students, and about OS, whose History teacher told H OS is doing very well at school. Good to hear that.

Had a good counselling appt today, for the first time I didn't cry!-) Also got some different painkillers, which hopefully will help. Yes, the painkiller thing does bother me, because I have rarely taken them in my life, I don't get headaches, and so rarely need anything. This is not like me at all. But - I get my results in a couple of weeks - have to wait, but at least I finally got the scan done, so I have to look at the positives.

Wishing you all a good Thanksgiving,
LIR

Thank you, that was so kind of you to wish us well.

To be honest, I didn't know if you would be celebrating Thanksgiving, and I didn't know if it would be good to remind you. Not because you wouldn't be thankful........

When I lived in Canada, I tried to immerse my self in the culture, and I celebrated their Thanksgiving in Oct, and not the US one in Nov. I wondered how you were doing living in the UK. So anyway, I didn't know if it was a good thing for you, or if it made you homesick. Come to think of it, I don't even know if the UK has anything like thanksgiving. You can tell me though if you want, and maybe I can learn something.

The news is good this time. I keep cheering for your H, and hope that he will respond it ways you need him to. I know many wonderful ladies, who, if they were treated well, would make their husbands among the most happy men on earth. I count you in that group. My own W is also. She is devoted to me, and will do almost anything for me as long as I care for her, and protect her.


Had a good counselling appt today, for the first time I didn't cry!-)

Oh, that sounds good. It could mean lots of things, but I'll take it to mean that you are getting the help you need, and working through things well.

Also got some different painkillers, which hopefully will help. Yes, the painkiller thing does bother me, because I have rarely taken them in my life, I don't get headaches, and so rarely need anything. This is not like me at all.
When you told me how long you had been taking something for your back....... and knowing how those things can affect a person......... I asked God to help you find a cure.

But - I get my results in a couple of weeks - have to wait, but at least I finally got the scan done, so I have to look at the positives.

I hate waiting for those things to come back. I've broken both my arms, and one leg, and had my appendix out, and my tonsels out..... and ..... I should probably quit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know how it is though. Hospitals are not my favorite place, even though they have helped me a great deal. I really hope you find a solution, and will continue the prayers.

Have a wonderful weekend !!

SS

Thanks so much for your good wishes. Here it is December already!

It is getting hard to get up in the morning, and if I stay up too late, I can't get to sleep, so....I'm trying, but it's difficult....the new painkillers are a tiny bit better than the former, but still not much good. I got my test results back today - the good news is that everything looks normal, which is something of a relief, but also extremely frustrating -- why am I in so much pain? Today I could hardly sit down, and my feet are going numb by the end of the day....I talked to my doctor on the phone and agreed that since the MRI looks normal, the next move is to go to a chiropractor or an osteopath and get "twisted" - perhaps that will unpinch something - my S and BIL swear by it...also I plan on going to get some physiotherapy from the local cricket ground - well, they are top class, and I figure if they can put international cricket players back together again, they should be able to do something with me....it's worth seeing what they will say....

I think my counselling sessions are starting to be helpful...I have been rearranging "my" room - moved the bed around and fixed up some bookshelves for my books for the first time since I have lived in this house, which is part of trying to "rebuild", "reestablish" my own sense of self. My H has not come up here and hasn't even seen it. Not interested.

When I was last on, lurking, I read a few threads on "serial cheaters" - something someone said struck me - that she couldn't stay with her H without having her "exit strategy" worked out. That hit home because I realized I was feeling depressed because I had lost track of my "exit strategy" - although I do not plan on divorcing my H or leaving my children (ever), I still need an exit strategy. That's what I am trying to get my head around now, and it helps me feel better....

I just wanted to say hi and say I'm sorry I haven't come back to post....I don't post from work anymore, so that generally leaves late at night when I am really tired....just wanted to say thank you, and thank you for your prayers....will touch base again soon...

LIR

Have you been checked out for fibromyalgia?

Hi believer - thanks for dropping by! No, I don't think I have been. What is that? How do they investigate?

LIR

fibromyalgia
It doesn't sound very good, but I have not heard of it at all.

Hi LIR, I hope you get enough sleep these days, but for some reason I doubt it. (SS smiles)

Random thoughts from the last few days about your situation, and other things .....

Did you ever write that letter that FIL wanted you to write?

It would be interesting to listen in on your counseling sessions. I suspect I could learn a great deal.

Wondering how your boys are doing this school year, and what their worried are. One of my daughters had a melt down last week. I think she is OK now, but her worries and fears are valid, and she needs to work through it just like we adults need to work through our problems. I suspect the solutions to both hers, and ours are simple to God, but not always to us.

Our Garden had a hard freeze the day before thanksgiving. Just the winter garden left now, the summer one is history.

I know of several people who had back problems for years, and now go to the chiropractor about once a month and seem to be fine. I have no idea what it was, or what he does for them, I just hear them talking about it sometimes.

I just wanted to say hi and say I'm sorry I haven't come back to post

Always do what is best. I think now that you are in counseling, sleep is probably more important than the help you get here as far as your overall health. Don't take that wrong, I enjoy this exchange....... but I worry about you getting enough rest. Please take care, and get the rest you need. Stress can really harm us if we don't give our bodies and spirits what they need to cope with it.
This........ from experience.

If it snowed 10 ft (in 24 hours) at your house, and you couldn't get out for a few weeks, what would you wish you had more of to get you through the experience?

And finally -
One of our daughters had her 2nd child yesterday. It's a girl 7lb, and 11 oz. Both baby, and mother are fine. This is our 8th grandchild, and it quite enjoyable.

SS

I probably won't be on much over the weekend, and who knows about Monday the 24th.

So -

Wishing you a Merry Christmas, and may you reach your goals for the new year. I so hope that God will bless you with the help you need.

I shouldn't ask, but I usually do.....
Were you ever able to read the Book of Esther?

I trust you and the boys are well. I really hope H is well also.

SS

You're right! I never get enough sleep, which I know is not good for me. I brought this up with my counselor this week, in fact - I have to discipline myself to NOT go on the computer and answer e-mails after 10pm - since I get up at 6-6:30 every morning, this means that I invariably do not put the light out until past midnight - the pain I suffer gets better if I have 8 hours of sleep - so I really need to start taking care of myself....that's one of the reasons I have not posted....(sad face) - but I am struggling with myself on this one!


No, I didn't. Something stops me - I don't feel it would be truthful of me to just write to my H that I was willing to let bygones be bygones....I can't say it and mean it. I feel I have already done that twice (with his two EAs), and the result was that he had another EA which turned PA, so I don't feel that meant anything to him. In some ways, I have just let my H go....I can forgive him, but I can't rebuild the feelings I once had for him. I don't feel it is possible to ever trust him again because I see him differently - it is like his actions have made him a different person than the one I thought he was. I can still love him, but I cannot be "in love" with someone I don't feel I can trust or rely on, or who I am afraid of. My FIL is very kind to me on the phone - he expresses his concern about my health and well-being - he just turned 90. I am sure he does not approve of my H's actions, but he also is aware that he cannot control him any more than I can. H needs help, but he needs to seek that help for himself. My H does not "do" emotion. That does not mean he does not feel. He is like a man trapped in his cultural upbringing (stiff upper lip, uncomfortable with affection) who can't find a way out. One counselor I talked to in the past said he had encountered other men who had gone through the British boarding school system of the past who were incapable of expressing or sharing emotion. It is not uncommon in the UK at a certain level, at a certain age-group, and I am culturally unequipped to deal with it - for my H, it may be that I am just too much "in your face" and I appear to him to be emotionally demanding - that is one explanation. FIL is like this, too - H follows the pattern set by him....as far as I know, though, FIL was faithful.....but he is also notoriously difficult within the family. Having said that, H seems to be slightly steadier just lately....he has warmed up ever so slightly and has put a lot of effort into Christmas this year. I even managed to get Christmas cards written to all my family, which I didn't manage last year. So I am still mulling this one over....-)

I am starting to find my counselling sessions really helpful. I have had some very depressed days - hard days - and I expect I will have more, but I am still going on....for some reason, I have been feeling reasonably good the last couple of weeks, although I am feeling anxious about home...Christmas is here and my dad is travelling down to see the family....he will be with my sister on Xmas day - I told her she should try to avoid any confrontations on that day - I think it will be difficult for her....and I don't know what post-Christmas will bring for all of us - I am worried about my R with my Dad, since he has been very supportive of me, and I do love him, although he has done some bad things in his life, that's for sure....-( I have talked about this with my counselor- I think that being in counselling is finally starting to help me - just having that one person there for me week in and week out is starting to help me feel a tiny bit more secure.

I think my young one is mostly worried about being bullied, and about his very strict French teacher - but that is calming down now - he seems to be settling down and is more confident. Things are looking up for him. OS is suffering teenage angst and withdrawal, but I have got to the bottom of some of it - not enough chance to perform solo at school, which is extremely important to him (OS plays two instruments at a very high level, but is overshadowed by another pupil who is a competition winner) - so I have taken steps with both his instrument teachers to rectify this situation for next term - I suspect his academic performance will improve once this is sorted out.

Thank you! That's what I have been trying to do. Don't think I don't appreciate the help you have given me either. I am also aware that you are a very busy man and that there are many who rely on you. It would be nice, sometime in the future (when my life is perfect?-)) to be able to thank you in person.

Ooooh...what a thought! I think I'd go crazy - chocolate! A treadmill to burn it off...a sauna...an indoor heated swimming pool? A girl can dream....

FAN-tas-tic! Always the best news in the world - "mother and baby are doing fine" - those are the best words in the language!! Congratulations all around. And I hope you have a very Merry Christmas.

P.S. I have read Esther - certain things "stuck out" - but I don't know if they were the ones you were hoping I would notice. Maybe after Christmas and all the fuss of the holidays when we both have more time we could both look at this...but only if/when it is convenient....

Well, this may be what everyone is saying..... I sure hope you have a great 2008, and I hope your health improves..... and I hope your marriage becomes all that is should be, and that you want it to be. I could go on and on, and it's kind of the standard stuff that gets said, but I hope you feel hope behind the words.

It sounds like your sons have standard worries, but they are not standard to them. I few kind words, and a little encouragement go a long way, but I would guess they get that on a regular basis. Thought for a while about what you said about the boarding school experience. I would guess it can have a big effect. Note the use of the word "can."
I think it would have been very hard for me to go through that. Not sure how it would have changed me, but I don't think it would have been a help to me.

I read your comment on thanking me - you are very kind. I am sure we will meet in person someday. Perhaps in this life, perhaps in the next. As far as your life being perfect....... if we wait for that, it won't be this life then. ;-)

P.S. I have read Esther - certain things "stuck out" - but I don't know if they were the ones you were hoping I would notice. Maybe after Christmas and all the fuss of the holidays when we both have more time we could both look at this...but only if/when it is convenient....

Well, I hope you had lots of fun with the "fuss" of the holidays, and that you felt close to your boys, and were close to your H. I hope he made lots of LB deposits, and that you got some help from him that you really needed.

As far as Esther goes....
What struck me as being similar to you, and the reason I suggested it -
She was trying to do what was right. She didn't know what to do, but she wanted to do the right thing with all her heart. She looked at the situation, and thought it through. All the while she was praying, and thinking, and wondering. She knew God cared, and she trusted in him, but she never got any kind of direct revelation as to how to proceed. She went ahead anyway, doing what she thought was the best thing.

Notice that she enlisted the support of others in fasting and prayer. Fasting can be a physical aid to spiritual power. She used all the tools she had, and she went ahead, not knowing just how it would turn out.

Notice that even though she didn't know what would happen, she believed God would help.
Of course, things turned out well. I believe she had faith that no matter what happened, she needed to do the best she could, and leave the rest in God's hands.

It has always been a lesson to me on how to face the troubles that I face. I wanted you to take strength from her story, and I hope it helped. I think it is difficult to read her story, and not be touched, and lifted up if you face troubles in your own life (and who does not?)

How did things go with your sister, and your dad?


BTW, when I asked if you had written the letter FIL requested, it was for information only, as a kind of a measure of where you are with your H. I hope you didn't feel any kind of a judgement in the question.

I remember you said once you enjoyed getting real letters, and that email wasn't the same as holding the paper, and reading the words. I remembered when you said you got Christmas cards sent. We didn't send any this year, and I am sorry, but I am not good at it, and my W is not much better. I have to agree with you about "real" letters though, and I wanted to comment.

I hope you back improves.

SS

Hello ss! Happy New Year! I hope you had a good holiday, too....I hope it was full of family time!

We did have a "good" holiday. No emotional upsets, it felt quite normal, except for the fact that my H and I don't sleep together and don't touch each other. In all other respects, we got on very well and had an enjoyable time. H and I exchanged gifts which pleased us both and shared a little hug in the kitchen, which was nice.

We went to three Christmas parties which we are normally invited to, and our friends (most of whom are aware of the problems we have had over the years because I talked to them when we were in heavy crisis) seemed genuinely glad to see both of us (H did not go to two of these parties in the last couple of years) - I saw my H behaving more "normally" in a social context - we used to have a social life with many friends who liked and accepted us a couple - our social life in these past five years, since H went "off the rails", has withered to nothing - we still smile and say hello to our friends when we meet in the street, but we don't get invited to dinner or parties and we don't have people over - our children have maintained their friendships and I see my women friends individually - H sees his friends individually, but our life as a couple socially has virtually ceased. This is very painful for me and I think it is isolating for our children, so it was interesting to me to see H decide to participate in the annual xmas parties - for the past few years he has avoided them - it made me wonder what space his head is in now.

H was helpful over the holidays - he got the tree, put it up, did the lights, took the boys xmas shopping (even though he had the flu - he wasn't well over the holiday, which gave me an opportunity to show that I was concerned about him, which I think he appreciated)...

He also showed some sign of wanting to please me this last week - our back fence has been down for 6 months - I REALLY want this fixed - it leaves our back yard open and vulnerable to thieves and I feel insecure with it down - he has been procrastinating for months about fixing it, and I don't want to nag - but I have dropped hints, like saying "is there any chance that we can find some way to fix the back fence soon? Perhaps we could hire someone to fix it if you don't have time?" So he has put two days into starting to fix it, and it seems the job is underway now....it's been a bit difficult for him apparently to sink the fenceposts, as there is concrete some inches down in a strategic spot - but he said he'd found a way around that yesterday - so well see - I hope it goes up soon....

I recently watched a lecture online on the Gresham College website by Raj Persaud, the psychiatrist, on the connection between mental illness and creativity - he says there is a very high connection - with fully 2/3 of published authors having experienced or currently experiencing major depressive illness, with poets having the highest proportion - 3/4. It was a very interesting discussion - i.e. very creative people are often depressed, yet they are still productive, they produce works of art. There are many people who have suffered depression who do not produce works of art, even though they may be "creative" - have creative ideas. I would put my H in the former category and me in the latter. I would like to shift myself into the former category!-) One of the things I found "reassuring" is that he said creative people and people who suffer from depression share a certain quality - that of "ruminating on their internal state" at length. This is a definite aspect to creativity, as well as a definite aspect of depression. Productively creative people feel it but still manage to produce - most depressed people do not produce, but it can explain why art and music therapy are therapeutic for depression. Now I know this sounds like a cop-out to a lot of the people on this forum, but my H IS very creative - what he does in his own artform is at the very highest standard which he has been recognized for - sometimes such people are "different and difficult". I do not think that his creativity exempts him from normal moral responsiblity, but I do think his creativity makes him a challenging person to be in a relationship with. A lot of the energy that "normal" people put into their family lives and their relationships, he puts into his creative work, which demands long hours of intense concentration. There is very little time left over for a relationship, so, if you follow Harley's theory of 15 hrs a week together, it is understandable that our romantic relationship has died - it is WHY so many creative people have serial relationships - they flame up and last a short time, but the major relationship a highly creative individual often has, is with himself and his own work, which leaves the spouse out in the cold. I know this sounds like an excuse, but it is not - it is a statement of fact from my experience. If my H spent 15 hours a week with me, he would not produce the work he does. What I don't excuse him for is for not spending ANY quality time with me. I don't excuse him for being TOTALLY selfish. But I understand that he can be, and I do think that his high level of creativity is a valid explanation for it. I would say that I honestly did not understand this or forsee this when we got married. The other interesting thing in the lecture was that he said evolutionary scientists explain creativity as a kind of "peacock's tail" - it is an enhancement - it's genetically attractive. And that there is some evidence to suggest this - people display their creativity when there is a chance of attracting the opposite sex. The interesting thing is that women only reveal their creativity if it looks like there is a possibility of a long-term relationship, while men display their creativity whenever there is any opportunity of any kind for any relationship! LOL! Which kind of fits. Certainly fits my H's behaviour of the past five years!

I appreciate your explanation of Esther. I will re-read it again with all of this in mind. Very much.

Christmas Day went OK with my sister and my dad. She did not choose to talk to him and and there were no confrontations. Neither of us have heard from him since. I expect he will be driving back home by now. My sister and I have been talking a lot about how to deal with this. We still don't know, but we are praying about it together. Your suggestions as to Esther's approach are very helpful. We both think my dad realizes on some level that he really screwed up his life and our lives, that he hurt us all by what he has done, but that since my mother died, he is just "soldiering on" with what is left of his life in the role he has chosen to play - drunken clown, which is sad. My dad is a lesson in what happens to the WS when he gets his own way and opts for the "affair marriage".

Believe me, I didn't think there was a shred of "judgement" when you asked me if I had written the letter to FIL. I hope I didn't sound like I thought that. I just figured you were asking for an update. It's a valid question and I answered honestly. It's one of those things I need to take the "Esther" approach with.....

Well, I hope this year brings you and your family good fortune! I go back to work the day after tomorrow....I do feel that I have had a decent rest, and I have got started on my coursework again. I have been working on my first assignment, which is a business plan for a new service, plus I have to write an essay - both assignments are due 12 Feb., so I have to really knuckle down here now!

Thank you for your suggestions. I will try to take them on board. I think fasting would do me good!

Take care,
LIR

Hello ss! Happy New Year! I hope you had a good holiday, too....I hope it was full of family time!

It was full of family time, and it was wonderful. (But it was too short!)

We did have a "good" holiday. No emotional upsets, it felt quite normal, except for the fact that my H and I don't sleep together and don't touch each other. In all other respects, we got on very well and had an enjoyable time. H and I exchanged gifts which pleased us both and shared a little hug in the kitchen, which was nice.

I recommend you share more hugs in the kitchen, and ........ every other room you can think of .

I also recommend you pretend his major need is "Admiration," and find things to admire about him. I am not recommending busy work, or praise for the sake of praise........ but every time he helps, give him praise. Every time he does something you would admire in anyone else, praise him for it.
Not things like "you are so wonderful," but things like "Thanks for carrying those things in for me, that was so kind of you. " Or perhaps " Thank you for that wonderful hug, I love getting hugs from you."


We went to three Christmas parties which we are normally invited to, and our friends (most of whom are aware of the problems we have had over the years because I talked to them when we were in heavy crisis) seemed genuinely glad to see both of us (H did not go to two of these parties in the last couple of years) - I saw my H behaving more "normally" in a social context - we used to have a social life with many friends who liked and accepted us a couple - our social life in these past five years, since H went "off the rails", has withered to nothing - we still smile and say hello to our friends when we meet in the street, but we don't get invited to dinner or parties and we don't have people over

I see this as a very good thing. He is not avoiding you now.
Before, he blamed you (internally, I don't know if he knew what he was doing) for all his problems. How can you be seen in public with someone that is the cause of all your problems? Have you talked with your counselor about this?
Just wondering out loud.... so to speak.

- our children have maintained their friendships and I see my women friends individually - H sees his friends individually, but our life as a couple socially has virtually ceased. This is very painful for me and I think it is isolating for our children, so it was interesting to me to see H decide to participate in the annual xmas parties - for the past few years he has avoided them - it made me wonder what space his head is in now.

What you do really will make a difference over time.
From Isaiah Chapter 52 -
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Now, that is speaking about preaching the Gospel, but it applies to those that look for the good in people, and speak often of it also. I think it will touch you when you read it. Maybe.......... maybe read it more than once. Tell me what you think. (SS smiles)

Time is short, it's time for us to have our evening family reading and prayer. I will just skim a few things on down.


I am really glad he helped with the tree, and now the fence. Let him know how much hit means.


I recently watched a lecture online on the Gresham College website by Raj Persaud, the psychiatrist, on the connection between mental illness and creativity -

Interesting reading.
I am not very creative. Oh well, my W loves me anyway. <grin>
I think it is good to learn as much as you can, one can never tell when it will be needed.

Remember though, that Jesus didn't say it was OK to ignore your family if you are creative - and for sure he didn't OK adultery for any reason. Learn, but made decisions based on what the Lord communicates to you. Both through scripture, and through other means.

I appreciate your explanation of Esther. I will re-read it again with all of this in mind. Very much.

Again, I don't claim to be a spiritual advisor to you, or have any special insight into what you need to hear, or read. I just share things that have helped me, and that I think may be of value to you .I hope it never feels like I am pushing.

Christmas Day went OK with my sister and my dad. She did not choose to talk to him and there were no confrontations. Neither of us have heard from him since. I expect he will be driving back home by now. My sister and I have been talking a lot about how to deal with this. We still don't know, but we are praying about it together. Your suggestions as to Esther's approach are very helpful.

Sometimes God makes it very plain to us what we should do. Other times, he does not. I have found that when he does not........... it doesn't mean he isn't listening, or that he doesn't care. It means he trusts us to do the right thing, and that we can and will learn and grow from doing it. I have noticed that he never makes mistakes with this. Never.

Now, there are some that he tries to touch, but they refuse to listen. I am not talking about that. I think you are trying hard, and I think he can get through if he needs to. Esther did all she could to make that part happen. I learned a lot from how she did it.


We both think my dad realizes on some level that he really screwed up his life and our lives, that he hurt us all by what he has done, but that since my mother died, he is just "soldiering on" with what is left of his life in the role he has chosen to play - drunken clown, which is sad. My dad is a lesson in what happens to the WS when he gets his own way and opts for the "affair marriage".

I am glad he has the two of you, and that you still try. He is a blessed man. I hope he "gets" it.

Believe me, I didn't think there was a shred of "judgment" when you asked me if I had written the letter to FIL. I hope I didn't sound like I thought that. I just figured you were asking for an update. It's a valid question and I answered honestly.

No, you didn't sound like it bothered you, but this is text, and it's difficult to know how it comes across. We can show concern, and love with expression........ that it is hard to show with written words. It is better for me to be over concerned about how things sound, and not have you wonder. At least, I think it is.


It's one of those things I need to take the "Esther" approach with.....

I agree. God knows things we do not know. He can guide us with these things. It often comes (to me anyway) as thoughts that come to me, and stay lots longer then they ought to. Finally (and I admit I am slow sometimes) it occurs to me that I really ought to do this, or that. Esther put herself in a position to more easily get the help she needed.



Well, I hope this year brings you and your family good fortune!

Yes, I would like to travel more. Perhaps to England - Wales. The land of my Ancestors..... and several good friends.

I go back to work the day after tomorrow....I do feel that I have had a decent rest, and I have got started on my coursework again. I have been working on my first assignment, which is a business plan for a new service, plus I have to write an essay - both assignments are due 12 Feb., so I have to really knuckle down here now!

I wish you well in your work. I believe you WILL do well.

Thank you for your suggestions. I will try to take them on board. I think fasting would do me good!

Be careful with it, and pray about it before, and during.
It does help, but this is a process. Keep that in mind also.

Sorry the last .......... was so short.

Have you gotten any more from the medical people that is helping with your back?

"See" you later.

SS

PS, I haven't been proof reading as I would like, please forgive any errors.

Hello ss!
Long time no see! I'm sorry I haven't found the time to post. I hope you understand. I am just working very hard and never having enough time to get everything I need to get done done.....but I don't want you to think that I don't care that you have taken the time to check up on me.

I've had a busy month, with YS birthday mid-month, and OS birthday at the end of the month.....

I have tried to get some work started on the vegetable plot...so I have been up there a couple of times, did some weeding, started turning over the patch where I plan on putting in potatoes in March, and I managed to plant some rows of broad beans (like lima beans)....I am also thinking ahead and this weekend bought 3 bags of seed potatos and 2 bags of seed onions....the onions need to go in ASAP. It's still cold and wet here, though, which is why I am not outside today...-) Getting outside, and getting up there in the vegetable patch, where I work on my own, no-one around except me and the birds, really soothes me...I'm trying to pay attention to what does make me "feel" better....

I feel that my counselling sessions are going well. I am still getting to know my counselor, but I do feel that she is a person I can trust who has good instincts and is supportive in an empathetic way. What I am really doing with her is trying to rebuild myself, which is a very slow process, but she says it will take as long as it needs to take and there is no rush, so I feel reassured. I want to thank you for supporting me through the time it took me to find the strength to make the calls and find the right counselor.

The pain I am suffering has not gone away, but as of last week, seems to be slightly better. Since my MRI scan came out OK, and they haven't been able to find anything wrong with the tests they have done, they seem to have given up, and my doctor has referred me to the "Pain Clinic" at the hospital - where I will be able to get acupuncture, physiotherapy, and discuss pain relief....well, I will make what use of this that I think I can, but it seems strange to me to treat pain when you don't know what is causing it, so in frustration, last week (I was in a lot of pain) I decided it was ridiculous to take anti-inflammatory pain killers if they mask a pain you perhaps SHOULD be feeling, so I stopped taking the NSAIDs - and since then, it seems to be better. It still hurts, but not as bad - not that fierce burning pain. My doctor thinks my sciatic nerve is inflamed, and I am now wondering if the NSAIDs were making things worse. So I am staying off them, and taking a Tylenol type painkiller as and when I think I need it. I am just hoping it will slowly improve.....

Things with H are the same as usual, although I have tried to be more positive towards him....

I also recommend you pretend his major need is "Admiration," and find things to admire about him. I am not recommending busy work, or praise for the sake of praise........ but every time he helps, give him praise. Every time he does something you would admire in anyone else, praise him for it.

I had "switched off" completely to H after his affair, and even though he does not seem to want to reconcile with me, I am making a point of praising him for what he does well, especially when it is something I want or need him to do, to let him know how much I appreciate this - right now he is fixing our back fence - it is taking him a long time but he is doing a very good job, building a very sturdy fence which will be much better than the one that was there before. The thing about H is that whenever I praise him, he sabotages the effort by sparking a row...it's a pattern to our R which is "his stuff" and is part of the reason why our marriage has failed....

At least I try to see that when that happens, it is not my issue....and I feel that I can still praise him for the stuff he does well (I am sure there is stuff he does well that I miss, but I do try). I have also started touching and hugging him now and again, unexpectedly. I feel that just because he says he doesn't love me doesn't mean I shouldn't let him know he is a person worthy of love. When I have given him little hugs and pats, he seems embarassed, but he has hugged me back.

My feeling is that H just "put me away" - because I got older, because he wasn't "turned on" by me any more, because he got into internet porn for awhile (although he is not into that now), because he was tempted by other women who came on to him and his ego is so huge he thought he'd just take advantage of whatever...he gave into temptation because it was so easy with his work, because of the kind of person he is, and because he decided he didn't need to spend any time with me.....then he had to justify himself and decided it had to be my fault, because of who I was, because of the problems I had, because I wasn't the right person for him, because he had only thought he loved me when he didn't really.....basically, it was a decision he made.....he "lost track" of his love for me because he never gave me his undivided attention, and when it was gone, he "put me aside".....like any other couple, I think we could get it back, if we were to follow Harley's program of finding ways to spend 15 hours a week undivided attention with each other....I know that my unhappiness with him was down to my missing spending time with him.....I just don't think my H will do that.....or is able to do that Anyway, my feeling is that whatever H "decided", it shouldn't make me into an unloving person. I want to be the person I feel like being, in that I always had (mostly) good will in my heart towards others, including H, and I feel better when I express it, so if he has a problem with that, it's his problem.

I have also started working on my photo album again. I was making a beautiful photo album when my mum died....3 1/2 years ago now, and I haven't been able to pick up and start on it again, because I had got to the part of her 80th birthday party, and I couldn't bring myself to look at the pictures and set them in the album....I have talked to my sister about it and she told me it took her 2 years before she could do that part of her album...but I have started doing it now because I want to....I have reached the point where I want to see her smiling face and to have something beautiful to remember those happy times, so I am now really enjoying starting it again and working on those pages.....I think that's a good sign for me...-)

What you do really will make a difference over time.
From Isaiah Chapter 52 -
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Now, that is speaking about preaching the Gospel, but it applies to those that look for the good in people, and speak often of it also. I think it will touch you when you read it. Maybe.......... maybe read it more than once. Tell me what you think. (SS smiles)

I hear you!-) Thanks for praising the good in me when I didn't feel very good about myself. I think when you go though this kind of marriage breakdown, the devil works hard to foster bitterness within your soul. I know it is hard (still) for me to resist that, which is one reason why I try to be kind to H. Our priest last week said something along the lines that the victory over sin is not something that is fought and won once and for all, the victory is in the everyday battle which lasts a lifetime, the victory is in fighting that battle over the course of your whole life to the very end. It's not the victory which is the thing, it is fighting the battle which IS the victory, in the end.

Remember though, that Jesus didn't say it was OK to ignore your family if you are creative - and for sure he didn't OK adultery for any reason. Learn, but make decisions based on what the Lord communicates to you. Both through scripture, and through other means.

I know - this is my feeling, too. I think God gave my H a great gift, which he has used in His service. My H chose to marry and have a family. God didn't excuse him from paying attention to his wife and children - I think if he gave him this gift, he also meant for him to share his life with his family, not exclude them from his life.

Well, I had better go now....I still have a lot to do, but I am glad that I've been able to come here and touch base. I hope you are keeping well, ss.

God bless,
LIR

Hello ss!
Long time no see! I'm sorry I haven't found the time to post. I hope you understand. I am just working very hard and never having enough time to get everything I need to get done done.....but I don't want you to think that I don't care that you have taken the time to check up on me.

I sometimes wonder how you are, but I still say that you need to do what is best for LIR. If rest if what you need most, then you ought to try to get it. I do know you care. Actually, this is one of the big things I wonder about. I mean, it's easy to see you care, and that you have tried. I don't understand why your H is not grateful, and humble, and willing to thank you for that by trying himself.

I've had a busy month, with YS birthday mid-month, and OS birthday at the end of the month..... I'll say again, I don't know how you gals do it. I can only wish I had the energy.

I have tried to get some work started on the vegetable plot...so I have been up there a couple of times, did some weeding, started turning over the patch where I plan on putting in potatoes in March, and I managed to plant some rows of broad beans .....

We have had colder than normal weather, and I have not done a thing. We even had snow this week, and everything is muddy. I have not pruned the grape vines, or the dwarf peach tree, or the boysenberries. Usually I plant Peas in Jan, but not yet. As cold as it's been, they would be dormant anyway.
Sometimes they sprout by the end of January.

....I am also thinking ahead and this weekend bought 3 bags of seed potatos and 2 bags of seed onions....the onions need to go in ASAP. It's still cold and wet here, though, which is why I am not outside today...-) Getting outside, and getting up there in the vegetable patch, where I work on my own, no-one around except me and the birds, really soothes me...I'm trying to pay attention to what does make me "feel" better....

We have been getting turnips all winter, even with the heavy frost. I hope your potatoes do well. I think Onions do well almost everywhere. How did your winter crops do?
BTW, I agree about staying in when it's cold and wet. It used to be an adventure, but these days, I like a warm blanket and a good book. (and to be near my W.)

I feel that my counselling sessions are going well. I am still getting to know my counselor, but I do feel that she is a person I can trust who has good instincts and is supportive in an empathetic way. What I am really doing with her is trying to rebuild myself, which is a very slow process, but she says it will take as long as it needs to take and there is no rush, so I feel reassured.

This pleases me greatly. Thank you for doing this. I think I have said already, that I don't worry as much now.

I want to thank you for supporting me through the time it took me to find the strength to make the calls and find the right counselor.

I have known very few people who can identify what is going on as well as you can, and follow through with a solution. You are a good example to the rest of us. I think all I did was encourage you to verbalize what was already in your mind. You did the heavy work. Your comments are very kind though, and thank you.

The pain I am suffering has not gone away, but as of last week, seems to be slightly better. Since my MRI scan came out OK, and they haven't been able to find anything wrong with the tests they have done, they seem to have given up, and my doctor has referred me to the "Pain Clinic" at the hospital -

I know you had hoped for something concrete to work with. This has to be difficult to cope with mentally. Please don't doubt yourself.

...... where I will be able to get acupuncture, physiotherapy, and discuss pain relief....well, I will make what use of this that I think I can, but it seems strange to me to treat pain when you don't know what is causing it, so in frustration, last week (I was in a lot of pain) I decided it was ridiculous to take anti-inflammatory pain killers if they mask a pain you perhaps SHOULD be feeling, so I stopped taking the NSAIDs - and since then, it seems to be better.

My uncle who was a doctor in CA for about 40 years, has discussed this with me. He says that they just don't know about way too many things. I should not talk too much about this - my bad attitude will come out. ;-)
My doctor had me on three different drugs at one time. I got tired of it, and quit taking all of them. Within 6 months I felt better than I had in years. I have never gone back, and am still doing much better.

It still hurts, but not as bad - not that fierce burning pain. My doctor thinks my sciatic nerve is inflamed, and I am now wondering if the NSAIDs were making things worse. So I am staying off them, and taking a Tylenol type painkiller as and when I think I need it. I am just hoping it will slowly improve.....

My W and I continue to pray for you.
Does walking help, or make it worse?
What is most comfortable, sitting, standing, lying down, or walking? Or, does it change?

Not that I think I can help, but I catalog the information, and compare it to other's who are in the same situation. Sometimes something clicks in my mind. (but often not, says SS with a big grin.)

Things with H are the same as usual, although I have tried to be more positive towards him....

I had "switched off" completely to H after his affair, and even though he does not seem to want to reconcile with me, I am making a point of praising him for what he does well, especially when it is something I want or need him to do, to let him know how much I appreciate this - right now he is fixing our back fence - it is taking him a long time but he is doing a very good job, building a very sturdy fence which will be much better than the one that was there before.

This part is good. However, I sometimes wonder if I should keep recommending it. It would be much easier for you to distance yourself from him. The less interaction, the easier it would be. I just know that Jesus didn't take the easy way, and he did say "come, follow me....."

Are you really OK from day to day?

The thing about H is that whenever I praise him, he sabotages the effort by sparking a row...it's a pattern to our R which is "his stuff" and is part of the reason why our marriage has failed....

I know you have tried to keep from engaging him when he does this. Does it work for you, or does he draw you in?
I keep wondering how such a smart man can continue to do such dumb things. You can quote me if you want, or show him this post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

At least I try to see that when that happens, it is not my issue....and I feel that I can still praise him for the stuff he does well (I am sure there is stuff he does well that I miss, but I do try). I have also started touching and hugging him now and again, unexpectedly. I feel that just because he says he doesn't love me doesn't mean I shouldn't let him know he is a person worthy of love. When I have given him little hugs and pats, he seems embarassed, but he has hugged me back.

I see this as good for both of you. One of the reasons I asked about the letter (the one FIL suggested) is that I see over and over on Mb......... folks who say "I made it VERY CLEAR to them ........" and then when we hear the other side, we hear "I had no idea they really felt that way, I thought......."

I have spent time counseling people in their marriages, and over, and over, I see people who are not on the same page. One wishes they could repair the marriage, and the other believes that their spouse wants out, and has already made a decision. Of course, being in front of me makes a difference too, but I wonder what your H thinks.

Again, I am not trying to tell you anything really, but wondering in print, as I often do.
(what goes through my head over and over is "why doesn't He come to her, and ask her for another chance?")

I have to go for today, so I will just close.
You are there living it, you have a better feel for things. I have faith you will do what is needed.

You do sound better overall. May it improve.

SS