Yes. I'm sure that as we get nearer to Christmas then I'm going to have some even weirder moments but I don't think it is a factor for me right now.

Surely there is something I can do to accelerate the elimination of these feelings of hopelessness?

I'm working out regularly, focussing on looking after my DS and getting as much work as possible done but those horrible feelings are a constant lurking backdrop that often takes over.

Hi MW

Not sure why you think this is over now. You're a bit better off now than you were because you know why your WW hasn't been investing in your M fully.

Time to reconsider some basics , mate IMO:

1. Personal boundaries

You need to do some self analysis and work out what your personal boundaries for remaining in a relationship with your W are.

Mine were ( and remain) :

* Verifiable NC for ever
* transparency in activity with RH
* Protecting me from harm / investment in our marriage

If Squid violated any of those for an extended period I'd end our relationship even now.

If you're not prepared to divorce over it - its a wish not a boundary.

For me the sustained respecting of personal boundaries is permission to end plan B. No words, no promises, no sorrys.

2. Expose OM

I can't recall if you exposed to OM's circle, MW. Did you ever find anyone whose opinion OM respects enough to expose to ?

Then work, anywhere else that might have a stake in OMs decency.

3. Loving Detachment

This slip is just another step on the jolly happy road to recovery. Its not "all over" unless you decide you've had enough. Your WW is addicted to how she feels about herslf when she contacts OM, and she hasn't allowed herself to withdraw from this.

Mechanically that is all that has happened. Reconsider the FACTS you are faced with and strip them of invented portent. There's a "loving detachment" guide in my toolkit in my sig.

It will help you remain personally functional in a dysfunctional situation.

4. Prepare for uber blackness

You have to find a highly reliable intermediary to remain absolutely dark during plan B. This is for your mental health abut also because this then is most effective on your WW. Do not get in contact with her again directly until she has demonstrated that she is respecting your conditions for ending plan B. Not a WORD before then.

5. Move on in all but fidelity

Have a GREAT Christmas ! Go out with friends, savour moments with your kids and family, dress well, smell great. Let it get back to your WW that you're living a great life without her. Might feel uninstinctive but you will NOT pull her guilt strings by being misery arsed. Neediness, even righteous neediness is anathema to WS.

I never did plan B, but of you have any specific questions you think I can help with ping me or mail me, kay ?

Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for responding.

You wrote: "transparency in activity with RH". What's RH?

With respect to your individual points.

1. Boundaries. You are right. I have to be clear in my head what they are. The only thing I put in my PBL was that I was prepared to talk to her about the possibility of reconciliation if she ended it with him once and for all. I felt that kept my options open to define the boundaries later. Defining them as divorce triggers is a useful tip. Thanks I hadn't thought of that before. Divorce wasn't even an option for me a while back, now I would find it easy to push the button but I think being in emotional distress isn't the right condition to decide that.

2. Expose OM. He's an unattached guy, no parents. All he would get is kudos from his mates. I think she is socialising with them now so that's not an option. He's not decent but there is no real bad stuff that I could use as a lever either.

3. Loving Detachment. You hit the nail on the head and described her sitch perfectly.

4. Uber blackness. Oh I've been invisible for two weeks already. Once I got her new address, she got the second Plan B letter. Since then one matter of fact letter warning her of the bills I ceased paying for her. She has refused to use the intermediary I proposed (my MIL) and has tried to go through my DS. For example she sent a text to him asking that he get me to obtain a code for her to retain the same mobile number. She asked twice and the next thing she new was her phone was cut off. The intermediary thing is a big problem. I'm really not happy with her trying to use our DS. Going to a lawyer tomorrow to check I'm not behaving unreasonably and to get advice on visitation rights. I think the blackness is working as DS reports she is in tears every time she has met him.

5. Move on in all but fidelity. I'm trying. I've booked a holiday over Christmas for me an DS.

I know that being needy isn't attractive but I've been rocked to the core and am finding it difficult to get past it all having tried my heart out for 8 months mostly in Plan A. I'm so hurt I often think it's just better if I accept defeat. Pathetic eh?

Thanks for the offer of help. Right now I think I just need continued verification that what I'm doing is right.

RH " radical honesty". An MB basic concept.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Doh. Sorry I should have known that.

MW whats your source for your info about OM ?

OMs lie to their OPs you know.

Fugly the 8th dwarf, OM in my sit, told Squid he was separated from his GF, while he was sneaking off on a dirty weekend with his GF. Said his folks were dead when one died during their affair. Said he was in paid work when he was avoiding paid legal work to avoid CSA payments. Etc etc

If your WW is the source of your info about OM, hire a PI and get some better info quick.

Most everybody has SOMEBODY who cares about their morality, even ratbasket OMs.

Thanks Bob,

Some of it from WW but verified by enquiries around town. He was committing adultery with her whilst in his first marriage (that's now over) way before I met her 23 years ago. He has no shame about this type of thing.

I appreciate your suggestion and can see the sense in it but I'm not going to waste any more money on them. Just investing my time in the effort would just make me feel worse.

I know she's feeling really guilty and ashamed. I just have to pray that he turns out not to be love's young dream after all, that I did enough during the Plan A and that if I get another chance to come out of Plan B then I'll handle it completely differently.

MW,

I found out a lot of stuff about my OM that had NOTHING to do with his affair with my wife. Stuff about his nefarious dealings that I was able to use as a lever to stop him breaking NC.

Affairs end when the consequences of them outweigh the perceived benefits of them for the main protagonists.

There's no hard AT ALL in finding out a few extra consequences and loading the Karma bus with them somewhat ....

BP,

I know you did and you were kind enough to share them with me and how you loaded the Karma bus in the past <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Your point is well made and understood.

I think I'll just get past Christmas. Then if I decide I'm going to wait and not push the D button, I may consider doing so then. I think the way MWIL got the police involved for harassment is likely to have the biggest effect if we ever get to that point. Of course by that stage, his W was back and really trying. If I ever get the same chance, I'll suggest that they visit him at his workplace. My lawyer also advised this as the best cause of action.

Your continued support and advice is really valued.

Hello Everyone,

1. How do I change the name of my thread? I want to encourage more people to contribute.

2. I met the attorney today to explore what would happen if I decided to go Plan D. Despite me being the one who has been s*** upon from a great height, I am the one that stands to lose in almost every way. Some days I wake up feeling really positive about moving on with my life no matter what. Other days I wake up angry as ****** about the way I've been treated and want to push the D button. Other days I wake up missing her so badly.

The attorney was totally neutral and didn't try to push me in any direction whatsoever. She did explain however the consequences of deciding to initiate or delay proceedings. It seems to be in my interests financially to push the button now.

My head says do it. My heart says different things each day. One day it's do plan B another it's vengeful.

What do I do people? I'm so confused.

Go to your first page in the thread and edit the first post.

If there's another way to do it that is easier, I don't know it but maybe someone else does!

If you have to protect yourself financially then you may have to file. I didn't want to. I SO didn't want to. But I HAD to.

I explained everything to my Doberman the first day. I told him I needed him to delay as much as possible. Even at the hearing after that horrendous circus from Mr. Gray and Slag. So he did.

But I cried nearly all the way home after I left his office that day. Luckily my DIL and Mel were around to talk to me on the phone.

It will be hard, make no mistake about it. But that doesn't mean it's the end, just because you have to file. That's what stuck in my head from Mel. Thanks Mel!!

Good luck, MW.

Charlotte

Hi Charlotte,

Thank you for replying.

I did change the title by editing the first post in my thread once but now I don't seem to be presented with an option to edit. Am I being really dumb?

I think that if I push the button then I will feel pretty bad just like you. I don't know if that is just fear of change or because I really do want her back.

Thanks again.

There's a time limit, not sure how long.

But you can email the mods and ask them to change it for you. Someone said something about that the other day.

I understand how you feel about the filing thing. All too well!!!!! Same reasons. But I am really glad I did now.

It was the right thing to do. And I did tell him ahead of time, even though he didn't believe me. Then he threw-up the whole next day, he said.

Of course I liked hearing THAT. Wake up call, Mr. Gray!!!

MW

I didn't play fair.

I arranged a job, accommodation and schooling for me and my kids in Dubai where there's no extradition order.

One phone call and flight tickets would have seen me and the kids out of reach inside 24 hours.

I would have pressed that button before I lost everything to an affair.

That's not advice by the way, that just how I responded to the discovery you made today about the financial & custody sodomy of men in divorce UK style.

Mate I have no advice about the D. I think a dark plan B would work wonders with an already crying-when-she-sees-DS WS wouldn't last long, but you aren't prepared to render a black plan B. There is no gray or slightly dark plan B.

Don't divorce unless you want to divorce. Don't do it because you feel the need to do SOMETHING and its the only thing you can reach today.

Hi BP,

"... but you aren't prepared to render a black plan B."

What makes you say that?

Exactly. If you have to do it to protect yourself financially, that is one thing. Don't do it just to do it.

I hope I was clear enough on that!

I'm preparing to go into Plan B this weekend, MW.

I have been Plan A-ing from a distance and it sucks. I was able to goose him a little, though. I wasn't expecting that at all.

I thought he'd never talk to me again so I'd go into Plan B and then Plan D would be the end of us.

I wasn't giving up, though. I'm still not giving up on us.

Charlotte,

You were very clear. I'll read your threads tomorrow. Sounds like you are very clear on what you want. Me, I'm not so sure any more.

BP is right, you don't push the nuke button unless you are convinced that is what you want to do. A few months ago I considered no other possibility than a repaired and then improved marriage. Now I'm starting to question wether or not it's worth the effort. That's also tinged with feelings of the need to get revenge. I know the negative emotions aren't healthy but that doesn't make them any the less intense.

I've never taken action without total conviction so I'm not about to start changing my ways on that score. However, I also think that maybe I should just wake up smell the coffee and admit - not defeat - that it's over.

Hi Mate !

That sounds more brutal than it was intended sorry.

I said that because your last plan B lasted a week before you let her back in without having any rules of NC verification or owt in place.

Did you have an intermediary ? I can't recall.

Black plan Bs take emotional sand and a lot of planning !

Can anyone point me at some threads with Plan B's that resulted in recovery? I need some inspiration.

I've already read mywifeIlove's.

Thanks!

I can tell you that I used plan B 4 months after d/d and it worked. Took a while (A lasted 3 years) but it worked. To do this day, when the WS' attitude tries to pick through.... I whip out plan B. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Why are you concerned about NOT implementing plan B? Are your heart and mind in sync? Are you done with your personal plan A improvements and the WS is still around?

L.