Hey Changd.... any updates from you?!

JinGA

I've been really busy lately, but here's an update of what's going on. We've gone out several times. We talk on the phone almost daily. We usually hang out with each other for a few hours when one of us drops the kids off to the other. She is reading Love Busters right now, and we have done the EN questionairre. So...I have no idea where things are going. We are both enjoying each other's company, and we are not seeing anyone else. We talk about the problems that we have had in the past, and how we could have avoided them. We are just taking things really slow, which is new for me. If things work out and we end up back together that's great, but either way I'm glad that we have gotten back to a place where we each respect each other again. If it doesn't work out we will both know that we gave it another shot and at least ended on better terms than we did the last time. Any advice is welcome.

Sounds great, Changd. I'm very glad for you (and maybe just a teensy bit envious <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) I wonder if I'll ever be able to get to that point with XH... and then I slap myself and try not to think of it in that way.

I think that even if things don't work - like you said, you'll both know for certain and you can part with the knowledge that you both did *everything* that you could - but the fact that you are able to talk things out, you're both working on things - I think that speaks to positive changes and improves your odds <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Congratulations <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think that's what is "wrong" with me - XH and I never gave it one more kick at the proverbial cat, and I am stuck wondering, "what if"... which is destructive, I know - and I shouldn't - but it kind of nags at me. I'm doing my best to let it go, keep moving forward, keep healing and not focus so much on what I *want*... and just get through each day as best I can, and try to live a little while I'm doing it.

Tonight is part 1 of our DD's birthday. XH, DS, DD and I, plus DD's best girlfriend and DD's boyfriend are going to dinner then to a Harry Potter shin-dig at a bookstore. Should be fun (should be packed!).

Then tomorrow night part deux - BBQ at our house, then swimming at XH's apartment complex pool - this will be just the 4 of us, DD's idea. DD had initially suggested doing the BBQ at the pool - there's a 'public' grill there, but XH actually suggested doing the cooking at our place (woohoo!). My grill was broken so he came over to fix it last night (I bought a replacement part). He didn't quite get it finished - I was still at work and he went to the house to pick up DD for band practice. He'll finish it tomorrow I guess.

I'm looking forward to 2 family nights with him. I don't know if they will stir anything in him, but I know he's doing this for our DD and I'm not reading anything more into it than that - although it's not like he hates being around me - it's not like he'll be holding his nose... but perhaps 2 nights of family time together might remind him of what was (when life was good, before it went bad) and what could be if he chooses it. I was actually surprised that he suggested coming to the house. I've only invited him there once and he declined (asked him if he wanted to come in for supper when he dropped the kids off once). That was before we talked about reconcilation - he told me then he didn't accept my invitations because he didn't want to lead me on. I guess now that we understand each other the pressure is off <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am trying not to place any expectations on this - no, I'm just going to enjoy the time for what it is and leave it at that. The last family time we had together was DS's birthday and that was just a bit more than a week after his GF moved out. 3 months have passed now since she left. I think that could make a wee bit of difference - but again, I'm not placing expectations. However, I do intend to show him a bit of what he's missing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So we'll see. Keep us up to date Changd - I'm following your progress with prayers of hope for you. I'll post an update myself when I have one.

In loving support,
JinGA

Sounds like fun. I'm a big Harry Potter fan, so I was thinking about taking my 9 year-old son (big Potter fan as well) to pick up a copy at midnight (He always reads the last page first, though. Drives me crazy!). He has an early baseball tournament though, so I don't know if we will be up at midnight. Have a great time, and don't tell me what happens in the book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well here's my update... I copied my post from my thread on GQII... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Things went well - very well.

On Friday night we did the dinner and Harry Potter thing as planned. XH took kids to the library after work (books were due). He also picked up a cake - left it at the shop while he did the library thing.

When we'd spoken on the phone I told him I'd wrapped the gift he bought and mentioned that I had no card.

He bought a card from *both* of us and had me sign it too. (WOW!). He also bought a card with a whoopee cushion in it "from" DS

I was impressed with all of that. Historically he would have helped me organize things - but he wouldn't typically have done the "extra" stuff. He did the extra stuff.

He brought his camcorder to dinner and made pictures. I made pictures too (which I'll download and send him). He and I sat across from each other at dinner, DD beside me, DS beside him and DD's BF and GF beside DS and DD respectively.

At one point, DD's BF "stole" one of the gifts that DD got, and handed it off to her GF. GF handed it to me, and I handed it to XH who hid it. We both exchanged some very intimate glances as DD searched for her gift! He doesn't usually make eye contact with me unless we're talking - this was one of those knowing exchanges... *sigh*. Haven't had one of those from him in a long time.

XH wasn't feeling well - stomach was off. He left us after supper and went home, I took the kids to the Harry Potter thing. I was a bit disappointed, but I didn't say anything negative, just told him I hoped he felt better.

Last night - Saturday night - now *that* was the good night (although Friday wasn't shabby!).

During the day XH came over to the house to finish working on the grill (I stayed at work in the shop) - he got our lawn mower going too (wouldn't start) so our DS could mow the yard (needed it badly - but mower wouldn't start!)...He needed some other parts for the grill, and I needed to pick up some of the food for dinner.

After the shop closed, he went to Home Depot to get the parts and then home to shower, and I went to the grocer to pick up what I needed.

The funny thing that happened before we left - originally the plan was to have hamburgers and hot dogs. Midday I was pondering and I thought *steak*... I haven't had steak since DS's birthday 3 months ago and that was in a restaurant. Then I thought it would be nice to surprise XH with a nice steak, so that was what I was going to do.

As we were getting ready to leave, I asked him if there was anything special he wanted from the grocer. Jokingly he said, "STEAK!" Then I told him I was already "on it" and that I'd thought of that earlier. I asked, "Mushrooms"? And he made one of those sounds one makes when expressing pleasure/desire (LOL!). I said, "Done!" and went off to get the stuff.

I knew DS wouldn't likely want steak. I bought ground beef for burgers as well as hot dogs too.

XH arrived about 5 minutes after I did. He was wearing a nice shirt. Normally for the office and the shop he wears a T-shirt (he works in IT but they are *very* casual - his supervisor doesn't usually wear shoes!). I told him he looked nice - he said something about not having any other clean clothes. (Uh huh, whatever!).

He set to work to complete the repairs on the grill, with DS at his side. DD and I put away the things I'd brought home and got things ready for the grill. XH then came in and made a batch of his famous burger patties (I was going to wait and grill those today but DS wanted some - so XH offered to make the batch). XH did all the meat prep and grilling, and I did the rest - preparing the table, cleaning up after XH (LOL!)... we worked well in the kitchen together - like we used to do. Honestly in many ways *to me* it was like being in a strange time warp - as if he'd never been gone - but better somehow.

While XH was waiting for the grill to heat up, he lay down on the couch, just the way he used to. Completely relaxed, completely at home. I was so happy to see that - he wasn't uncomfortable or anything.

Then, just as the food was being put on the table, his GF called. He talked (or listened) to her for a few minutes, he moved into the hallway for privacy (almost like he didn't want her to know he was out) but then after a few minutes he told her where he was. I heard that much but didn't eavesdrop on the rest. Betcha she's really thrilled to know where he was *g*. Anyway, we ate our meal and enjoyed.

Then, instead of going to XH's apartment complex (it was the whole complex' pool party today), we stayed home and watched a movie that DD was given as a gift by her friend. XH back in his customary place on the couch, with DD snuggled up with him. DS in the armchair and me in my recliner. Just like old times - but *better*.

He left at 10:30. I almost hoped he'd fall asleep on the couch -- I wouldn't have woken him - just put a blanket over him and let him sleep *g*... but that's OK.

I think it went *very* well. Good steak dinner, we had fun, we bonded as a *family*. Hopefully that evening will give him something to think about when he's home alone each night in his apartment. He can have more evenings like that - if he so chooses.

I didn't want the night to end - but I'm still smiling this morning because of it.

I should also mention that the last time I think he came to eat at our home was Christmas 2005 or shortly after that. After nearly 2 years it was surprising how natural it was for him to be here - I wonder if he felt it too? Hope so.

JinGA

Sounds like a thread I need (for me) to be part of. Changd, your sit has some similarities with my own. We contact each other daily, usually go out to dinner together each night and spend the weekends together. I am only a week into our divorce/separation, so everything is still a bit cloudy for me and my head is still spinning.

That is great you wife is reading love busters and she answered the EN questionnaire, those are things I long for my wife to do. I have hope that day will soon come. I am very confident that we could work things out and get back together if I could get her to go to a good therapist with me. We were not that bad of before our S/D, just years of neglect, love busters and decay to our marriage that needs to be repaired. My challenge now is to get her to believe in hope for us and try to reconcile.

Changd, I'm curios, how have you acted towards you S since the D. Have you totally been there for her and loving or have you kind of let there be some space between you? Sorry, I have not read your full sit yet, going to do so after I post this.

nugget,

I did just about everything wrong during the seperation/divorce, so I'll save time and tell you the things that I did right (there are only a few). I tried to make the divorce process as amicable as possible. I gave her the house and all of our assets other than my car and my personal possessions. I also took on the majority of the marital debt. She didn't appreciate it at the time, but now she can look back and see that I was trying to make sure that she and the kids were financially taken care of even during the divorce. I also always took care of our children. I never missed a scheduled visitation, and I took any extra that I could get. I never said anything bad about her to the children either. That's about the extent of the things I did right. I pretty much treated her business like. I never yelled at her, and whenever an argument got started I walked away. At that point there was nothing I could do that was right in her eyes. It was only later that she could see these things about me in a positive light.

Right after the separation I dating a lot of women, and I didn't try to hide it from her. We lived in a small town, so it was very hard on her. Most of her issues with resentment come from things that happened after the seperation/divorce. The thing is she never wanted the divorce. She wanted me back all the way through the divorce process. It was never that she didn't want to be married to me. She just gave up on it after the divorce. I don't think her feelings have changed since then. Now, she thinks, "I've moved on. I'm doing alright. Do I really want to open this can of worms back up?" (I don't read minds. This is what she tells me.) So, in summary, if things work out with us it will be in spite of my behavior, because I have made a lot of stupid decisions. I'm trying not to make any more though, and she sees that.

Changd, our situations are somewhat similar.

We too had an amicable divorce. I filed, and my attorney drafted an agreement per my instructions that was, in his opinion, too nice. I think it was fair given all considerations.

The final year we shared a tax refund (before the papers were filed), we got a huge tax refund, over $7000. I kept $500 and spent the rest to pay off the balance on his car (although I still owed on my vehicle - I couldn't have paid it all off), his credit card and some medical expenses that he'd been making monthly installments on. We could have/should have split the refund 50/50 but if I'd left him with those debts to manage, he'd have had a hard time paying those as well as child support and living expenses for himself, so I used "my" share to help set him up so that he could manage just fine on his own.

Of course his GF kept telling him he got "screwed" - but given what I could have asked for (and likely received), I think I was fair and equitable to both of us, and XH had every opportunity to contest, negotiate etc., but he chose not to. Despite what he may have said later after GF put in her 2 cents, he knows he got a fair deal, and so did the kids and I - and after all the kids' well-being is paramount.

I've never stood in the way of him spending time with his kids, *except* when he wanted to take them on long road trips twice - once last year when he was going to leave them off with his family, with no "plan" to get them home again - I vetoed that but offered a compromise suggestion that would have let them go home to visit family, but he never took me up on it, and I vetoed it again this year - but as it turns out he didn't take the time he had planned originally and the kids will be back in school by the time his vacation comes up in a few weeks. I also let him know about the first week off during the school year that he can spend with them if he so chooses - so I'm doing my best to negotiate things that are win/win for everyone.

My own parents were constantly at war when they divorced, and I lost my relationship with my father, due to BOTH parents' attitudes. I don't want that to happen in my family - and thusfar it has not happened.

That is why we were able to spend good family time over the weekend. I hope at some point XH would like more of that... but that is his to choose if he so desires.

JinGA

Our divorce was very amicable and not contested. Neither one of us used a lawyer. I filled online for it and the next day we had it signed and filled with the courts.

My wife pushed for the D for the sake of her and our son. She was afraid that I would move away (I was planning on moving my business from Utah to Ca.) with our son and she would not get to see him. I pleaded and pleaded with her that I would never keep him from her, but she was afraid that I might, so out of respect for her fears, I filled and gave her the terms she requested. If it was not for me wanting to calm her about our son I would have never filed for the D. She would have had to do it herself if she wanted it. We have been very nice and pleasant as possible to each other since and spending time together often.

Hey Lucks, Just wondering, Can an annullment be annulled?

A civil annullment or a Church one?

I don't know the answers to that - but I *think* in the Church an annullment means the marriage never existed. I don't think that can be 'undone' - at least I've never heard of that either. If you wanted to have the annullment of the marriage, annulled, I would think that remarriage would be the only option - but again I'm just thinking off the top of my head. If it's a Church thing I'd consult a pastor, and if it's a civil thing I'd consult an attorney.

JinGA

go here:
www.rejoiceministries.org

Any annullment means that whatever is being annulled was never valid in the first place. If you annull your marriage you are saying that the marriage was not valid and it really never existed. Once that is finalized I don't see how you could annull the annullment because there isn't anything to annull. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />