Aphaeresis,

Good to hear from you and glad it seems to be going well right now.

Still a long way to go, but perhaps the two of you can begin working together. Many hands make light work...

Good luck in the housing search. That has to be hard with kids.

Keep us up to date, OK?

Mark

Hi Aph,



What a lesson to learn the hard way, eh? Guess you can qualify your experience as a 'character-building' process!

Glad you're back...I've been praying for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Acey

Update - we ended up having to go to a camp site for a week! The heat has been awful, although we've gotten away to public libraries and other places with AC for a while during the day or just sat in the car with the AC running. Fortunately, we'll be in a long-term stay weekly hotel tomorrow night.

Not much privacy in a tent with the kids around, but we've had lots of family time and that's been going well.

Hi Aph. Glad to see your post.

Hi Aph,

Like Big K, I've been wondering about you. So glad you're able to seek refuge in the public libraries.....and get online occasionally.

But it's even greater that things are 'going well' with the family.

Like I said "character building" .....and it sound like "memory making" as well. Sometimes it may be hard to fathom it, but one day you'll look back and laugh. Keep us posted!

Ace

Hope things are well for you. You've been a big help to me and a challanger/instigator !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I will try to read up on your post.
BoB

Hi all,

We finally found a semi-permanent home. There is even a possibility that the rules for contract workers could be changed and maybe he could stay on beyond October. We'll see. Other than that, things are stable, but nothing new to report.

Hey Aph,

Thanks for checking in. Hope things settle down for you soon.

We were semi-homeless for 8 weeks during a stint of 5 moves in 4 years.....poor DS couldn't even tell any new friends where he lived b/c he didn't know which friend/relative/hotelroom we might be staying at that night.

It will get better, I'm sure but it sounds like things are progressing quite nicely.

Keep up the great efforts and also keep us posted.

Ace

Hi all,

I mentioned to him that I was reading some marriage books and wanted to share some things with him. He reminded me that he said before we needed to talk without interruption for about an hour first. We just haven't had any privacy lately. I can get a friend to babysit, but not till next week. But at least there's that. So I have to wait.

So tonight I'm rather depressed. I don't know if it's because I'm worried about what he'll say, that I'm upset we can't just hurry up and get it over with, or if it's just one of those drops in serotonin I get sometimes and I'll wake up just fine. He's started playing that game again, so I used my free account and played with him earlier tonight. I wish he had just quit, though. I have no idea who his friends are on there or if any of them were ever a problem. But then again, probably they weren't or they would have shown up in emails. Oh well..everyone's asleep, so I'm off to play a game I actually like.

Aphaeresis,

Hang in there! We're still here when you need us.

Mark

Seems his friends don't hang out on that game anymore anyway. I think I was worried for nothing. Feel better today.

Aphaeresis ,

Worrying is like wishing for what we don't want to happen.

Keep working...

Glad things seem brighter today. Give it time and don't give up.

Mark

Okay, we had our big talk today, but it wasn't what I expected. We barely talked about my affairs at all. When I brought it up, he said he hasn't even begun to process that yet. At one point he did bring it up, and the fact that he wanted to have one, as an argument that our marriage can't be saved. I argued that others have been saved under similar circumstanced.

But he had other things to complain about. One, my son (from a previous relationship, age 11) has migraines that used to be associated with violent outbursts before we found the right medication for him. Now that we found the right one and he's getting better, he's starting puberty and my husband is afraid that will mess up his medication and he'll get violent again and possibly hurt our daughter (age 7). There was one time that he pushed her off a chair and she ended up in the ER with a big bump on her head, but fortunately she was fine in a few days. But he says if anything like that happens again he's filing papers for divorce and sole custody of our daughter (which is completely ridiculous because he can't cook and can never take care of her without asking me for help! Not to mention she's extremely clingy with me and would be miserable.) I think he's being entirely unfair to make a big deal of this now when we finally have his symptoms under control. I also wonder if he even loves our son at all (he's raised him since age 1 and a half, no other father figure) to just give up on him like that. So I have to wonder if I want to stay married to a man who may not be able to love all my kids. I'd like to think, though, that he's just worried about our daughter or maybe even using this as an excuse.

He also gave me some meaningless babble about not sharing a vision for the future...but then I told him my vision of the future depends on our circumstances and what we decide as a family because a married person can't just set a course all on their own without considering everyone else involved (spouse, kids).

Oh, and Larry was right about him thinking I married him for money. He said I'd be happier if we got divorced and I went on welfare. (Apparently single women have an easier time getting it.) Not that he was rich or anything when we met. I feel like smacking him for that. I thought he knew me better than that. It's a huge insult to me, but I just told him our marriage doesn't hinge on how much money he makes. And that I've been poor before, I could do it again.

Other things he said was his life is over (because of the job situation), I'm trying too hard to save the marriage, this marriage is like a punishment to him, there is no hope of it getting any better, I'm no fun to be with anymore because the kids are always around and when they aren't around he's thinking about the elephants in the room, and that he's tried to motivate himself to try to make things work but the only reason he can think of is our daughter.

At the time, I figured he was doing everything he could to push me away to make sure I really did want to stay, that he's pulling his usual divorce threat strategy and that if he really wanted out, he'd be out already. Plus, all his friends say he's a lot happier now that I'm here, he seems happier to me even though he claims we never have fun together (then later conceeded that some times have been more fun than others) and he's been much more affectionate lately and not because I'm initiating because a lot of the time I'm not. So I operated on those assumptions and things went ok. He did say some things that indicating he's not actually going to bail right now. He even said he'd visit the boards later - just not right now.

But then later I thought about this some more. If he's really that miserable, maybe I should let him go. Why do I want to chase someone who has no interest in me? I can understand why a man in my situation might want to. Men normally pursue anyway, that's their thing. As long as it doesn't become stalkerish, it's usually considered romantic. A woman fighting to stay with a reluctant man just seems pathetic. And if he's staying for the kids, she's trapping him. I want to feel like I'm doing everything I can to save the marriage but at what point do I decide that all I'm doing is throwing away my self-respect for nothing?

I'm really confused by all this. If he thinks I'm really that horrible, why doesn't he just go? And if he doesn't want to go, why is he ****** bent on convincing me our marriage is a hopeless case?

Aph,

If he had no interest in you, he'd be gone. If he didn't want to try to make it work, he has ample reasons to be gone. If he has nothing left in the way of feelings for you...Isn't that what MB is all about, rebuilding those feelings.

What the decision has to be is not stay or go because of what IS, but stay or go because of what MIGHT BE in the future. Remember that feelings are only about the present, not the future, since feelings can and do change all the time.

Love Bank Deposits!

Mark

YOU threw away his self respect that was at least somewhat rooted in his pride and trust in you.

With your attitude regarding the disposable nature of your relationship, why in the world would you expect him to chase you? Given your current circumstance, what makes you so wonderful to have?

If you want this man back, and the relationship, I strongly suggest you learn how to pursue, and why it is the right thing to do at this time. There is no time, logic, or reason to play princess. You lost that status a good while back.

All the best,
Gimble

Ana:

Your H has always been on the run somewhat from you. Just as you have.

Your committment to this M is new turf for him. He needs to sort it out.

His comment about taking your DD away in the divorce is particularly cruel, and designed to kick you where it hurts the most, but is something to look into further on your part. Is your DS at little bit out of control? You mention the meds he is on, and if H is concerned about your DS and puberty, that is a valid concern. My son is 14, and I am carrying the brunt of his issues now. He is a boy, and I was one once, so I can relate to my son in different way than when he was younger. That MAY be one of your H fears. Address that...

And NOT talking about the A's? And talking about other aspects? Then THAT is what he is concerned about. HE is telegraphing to you his boundaries. Be ready to have them enforced if you backslide. H may come to the point that he wants to talk about the particular details about the A's. He may not. Each person has the right to determine what amount of Info they need. IF your H KNOWS that you will answer any question he might have about it, then, he may not need to know anything else.

Remember what it takes to stay on this path. Radical Honesty. Your H isn't used to it, and he may never get it, but if you practice it, and act accordingly, then you have a great shot a making this thing work.

LG

Hi Aph,

Just wanted to stop in and encourage you. The guys are giving you insights which could (or may not) be from your H's perspective. But it may seem different from what we gals might think.


I am a detail person, my H is not. I need the details to gain full comprehension, my H does not. If I were the WS, I would expect my H to want to ask ask ask. He would not.

After all the triggers I self-concocted, I wish I had quit asking about details way before I did.

It's not wrong, just different. Same with the timing. If I were in your shoes, I might perceive your H's actions to be indifferent. But if I had caused the breach, I would definitely pursue him.

I agree with Mark and Gimble and LG.....show him you value him....it will build up your account in his love bank.

Keep being honest, own your stuff and focus on solutions if you truly want to work to save your marriage.

Keep us posted, Aph.....we're rooting for you.

Ace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hmmmm,

For someone who did not want to discuss the affair it seems to me that that was all that was discussed. It is ALL about the affair, even when he claims it is not.

His arguments to leave or questioning your commitment to the marriage are a smoke screen to see if you are for real. Additionally, he makes such arguments to see how you will defend them. I suspect that your husband is damaged very deeply from years of destructive practices in the marriage, some his fault, some your fault. The fact that you sought comfort and sex from other men is a huge blow to his self-worth. It seems to be evident in most every comment he makes regarding your future together.

His questions to you have caused you to doubt your resolve to commit to him. It seems that he knows how to push your buttons as you have caused yourself to become angry and resentful over his comments and you now wonder if you should just give up.

Be aware, RECOVERY IS NOT FOR SISSIES. It takes a strong will and great fortitude to stay the course. Although this post is written to you, this warning applies equally to him although he does not read like someone who is willing to expose himself to potential harm again, at least not without some assurance that you are for real.

Note how your husband feels that his future is hopeless. That sense of hopelessness seems to have extended to you and it shows. How do you think he perceives that? It will take a huge effort from you to convince him that you value him and your relationship with him. I am not sure you are at that point. If you are able to convince him that you DO value him, then you will begin to see changes in him, for the better.

You ask the question that if your husband thinks you are so horrible why doesn’t he just go. He asks such a question because he was damaged by YOUR decisions. You did a horrible thing, I am sure your realize this. But are you a horrible person? The answer to that depends on “who you are today and who you will be tomorrow”. He does not know the answer to that and it is the answer that matter most, especially to him and if he should stay in the marriage with you.

Where many betrayed spouses might fight to save their marriage your husband is not cut from that mold. I might think that he will let you go and let the marriage end rather than possibly chase a hopeless cause. The burden of proof falls squarely on your shoulders; it is you who must convince him that you are committed towards recovery, that you value him, that you regret your poor choices and that you are ready to love again.

Perhaps he will come, and perhaps not. Are you ready to take the plunge?

Mr. G

Aph, you already know the answers to these questions. You both start from the same position and that is no different that what a LOT of people do. We've touched on this stuff before and you've rejected it out of hand, so there is little point in rehashing old ground. So let me simply "sum it up" simply. If you are a mind to, give it some serious thought as to how it applies to both of you, and how it governs your reactions and interpretations.

"ME centric world."

At the center of your "world" is SELF. Everything emanates from, and is evaluated in terms of, how it "benefits or hinders" me from getting or doing what I want.

Go back to your SecHum beliefs and discuss each of them with your husband and how they apply not just in general, but specifically to each of you and your marriage.

Aph, you've just had the "opening round" in recovery efforts, and already you're entertaining ideas that "it might not be worth fighting for." If it's not, then leave, and leave NOW. If it is, then tighten your corset, cinch up your garter, suck it up, and COMMIT to the long haul, even if the ultimate result is that HE decides to leave. It IS his choice, and you have remember that. But if you "waiver" in your commitment to him and to the marriage, you will send a clear message that you are only there for YOU and not for HIM. That message, if heard and believed, WILL end your marriage even if you both would like it to survive. At best, you may both reach a point where you each, individually, decide that being married is in "MY" best interest, and you'll be married, but you won't be married other than legally and out of convenience.

Good luck, and CHOOSE, all in or all out.

First, thank you all.

Gimble,


Obviously he thinks there must be something or he'd be gone already. If I didn't believe that, I'd be gone. See my response to FH below for why.

FH,

You miss the point. Because I love him, I don't want him to be miserable. He says this marriage is a punishment to him and implies he could never be happy
with me. If I took him at his word, the loving thing would be to let him go and let him find happiness without me even if it would make ME miserable.
Just like the old saying - if you love something, set it free..if it doesn't come back it was never yours. However, if I can't take him at his word because
he is being defensive or testing me (as Mr. Goodstuff suggested) - then in that case setting him free is not what he wants or what would make him happy.


lousygolfer,

My son is definitely not out of control. He's polite and well behaved most of the time. He does have a history of
ocassional violent outbursts with migraines. My mother has epilepsy, and we've suspected seizures although none have shown up on tests. (That doesn't necessarily
prove he's not having them, though.) So of course his behavior has been a concern, but it is medically caused, apparently controlled by medication at long last,
and I don't think my husband is taking the medical aspect seriously enough. He's done this before with my own illnesses. I was suffering from undiagnosed
sleep apnea at one time and we started having marital problems because he thought I was being lazy! He even seemed to convince our first marriage counselor
of that. But then I had a sleep study which proved without a doubt that my sleep apnea was very serious and my behavior changed completely shortly after
starting treatment. I don't think my husband has enough understanding of people suffering from medical conditions that affect their behavior. It's very
frustrating to me.

Mr. Goodstuff,

I think you've cleared everything up - thank you. If he's testing me, that would definitely explain all the inconsistencies in what he says vs. what he does.
It also means I need to watch what he does carefully and not let his negative, pessimistic comments about our marriage rub off on me. And based on what he's
doing, and not what he's saying, I think I'm doing better than he will admit to me.