I know there's a lot of talk about WS fog, but I have come to realize that there is also BS fog. The BS fog is that the WS fog is not to blame. Instead, the blame can be attributed by the BS to many things, among them:

1) the BS who didn't meet the WS's needs (Of course, the WS could have chosen to divorce or separate instead of cheat, but this fact seems to be missed by the BS)

2) the OP who pursued the WS

3) personality disorders of the WS (WS not to blame for personality disorders like Bipolar Personality Disorder, ADD, etc.)

4) WS's parents (not a good model for marriage, not loving)

5) events of WS's childhood (sexual abuse, etc)

6) circumstances (separation due to job)

People have free will. They can choose their behavior. They are responsible for their behavior.

That only took me five years to figure out. I wasn't responsible for his affair because I didn't call the woman's husband and tell him what I knew -- after my husband told me of the proposition, after he admitted seeing her, after I called Dr. Harley on the radio show and he told me to call the woman's husband, on and on and on. Out of consideration for him, I did not call. In actual fact, exposure does not end an affair. It just helps to clear the WS fog, but the choice to end the affair is still the WS's and the WS's alone. I have felt guilty all these years for choices that were made by my husband, not by me. Now I will focus on choices made by me.

Cherished

P.S. Thanks, Lemonman.

The BS is not responsible for the the WS choice to have an affair but the BS is responsible for the choices they make which enable the affair.

The choice of a BS to NOT expose the affair is a choice which enables the affair to continue under a veil of secrecy. In that sense, the BS has some responsibility for the continuation of the affair via enablement, regardless of the WS choice to end it.


I don't get this. Consideration for whom? The OW's husband? How is not telling him that his W is screwing someone elses H being considerate? I am asking, not condemning. I would like to understand.

In actual fact, exposure does not end an affair.It just helps to clear the WS fog

It was the fatal blow that ended Squids. And it thickened her fog for a while afterwards, so I don't agree with that statement, cherished.

Cherished and BA109,

I completely understand the BS Fog ailment.....still have it to the degree that I am NOT totally indifferent to that OW yet.

I had it so badly before we found MB that I thought that being the OW's friend would deter her from betraying me again if/when my H got weak and contacted her.

Coupled with an MC who said NOT to expose and that we should both have NC with OW.....it gave my WH free reign to dig deeper underground "just to make sure OW was OK".....withdrawal.....unchecked, unbridled, blatant WITHDRAWAL....of which our then-MC knew nothing about.

Get this, we were reading "Not Just Friends" when my WH was trying to be 'just friends....with no more virtual sex'. But it may be what undid that OW's clutches in WH's mind. She lied to WH, too and now he claims she's a worse liar that he was, 'probably is cheating on her H with someone else now.' Time will tell.

I did not call OWH because:

* MC said not to
* Fear he'd come after my WH
* WH did not want me to
* To give OW a chance to fix her M
* To enhance (or so we thought) their chances of staying M'd
* Did not know how to find where he worked and did not want to $pend time/funds to find out

Other reasons I'll think of later.

Six months after intact NC (as far as I knew/know) I registered for MB, got 2x4'd when I mis-quoted something I read on a post by Weaver/BobP/WAT....wrote to MB staff for resources....got a response from Dr. and Mrs. Harley.....called the radio show and exposed to the OPS the following week.

WH earned his "Former" designation a few months later and we've been on the recovery rollercoaster since then...starting in early Feb. 07.

BUT I'm still trying NOT to care about that OW. I'm the idiot who tried to be her friend, sharing chit-chat emails for weeks in late August and again during the holidays until after we exposed just before Valentines Day.

She had the audacity to taunt me, saying "He knows everything, I have nothing to hide." But when I called him, he had no clue. What bothers me at times is that he does not seem to care....or if he did, he never cared enough to request more proof.

My BS fog is dissapating slowly, but I recognize it still has a slight hold on me. When I am totally indifferent to that OW, I will have succeeded.

Ace

Exposure ended my husband's affair THAT VERY DAY and I can point to others where this was the case. Often, it will not end the affair alone, but it can hasten the death of an affair. As Dr. Harley has stated, "Transparency is like chemotherapy."

Melodyland....funny you should post right after me...do you recall tubing me back in January, thinking I was a guy? And I accidently called you by the wrong name? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

We both got really confused, then figured things out but I removed myself from MB posting for 2 weeks (Jan. 21 to Feb. 5) to seek clarity, eventually on Dr. Harley's radio show. And then we exposed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for caring....you helped change my life and our M.

Ace

Ace, so glad it all worked out for the best! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am surprised that "mid-life crisis" did not make the BS FOG list. I have no idea what a "mid life crisis" is and how it is relevant to anything, but I hear it used alot!

The first kiss was 9/11/01. I get to remember it every year. I did not know there was a kiss, but I was upset about the relationship.

I emailed Harley's radio show and was told on 10/1/01 to call the woman's husband. I played a tape of the radio show to my husband and he was upset. Out of consideration for my husband, who did not want me to call and betray his trust in telling the OW's husband what my husband had confided to me, I did not call.

I called Harley's radio show on 4/22/02 and was told again to call the husband. This time I did.

The husband got out of his wife that she had been having an affair and told him on 5/4/02. He told me.

That ended the affair.

EXCEPT IT DIDN'T. She still tried to get back with my husband but he chose not to continue it.

In the end, it is still the WS who ends the affair. The BS does not end the affair by exposure, only gives the WS more incentive to end the affair.

Last year, my MIL said to me that, when she found out about the affair, she blamed me. I chucked and said "and I blamed OW". She then said "No, no, no" and I replied "until I realized that Tom is responsible for Tom's behavior."

I don't disagree with Harley's advice to expose the affair. It's just that exposure does not mean end. It is still up to the WS to end the affair.

Cherished

There appear to be exceptions to every rule.

In late January, 07, Dr. Harley suggested I send the tape of my radio show phone call to OW and tell her that if she did not tell her H about their A within a week, that I would tell him.

That's when she taunted me so I called her H the next day AND mailed the proof package to his office. (My call was partially to confirm that HE---not an assistant---would open mail marked 'personal'.)

Does MB suggest giving the OP time to spin the exposure story? Absolutely not. But my exception, according to Dr. Harley was because the affair was (as far as we knew) over.....NC had been intact for 6 months.....exposure was optional, but the right thing to do. PLUS it was my missing link needed for me to start rebuilding trust.

What did my H say about all this? "Whatever it take for you to heal is what I want." Mrs. Harley said that his attitude was a good sign.

The beauty of MB, or at least one of many beauties of MB, is this forum. Varied opinions and experiences (with MB principles) create a rich environment that helps with all kinds of marriagebuilding, regardless of the specifics involved.

Thanks,

Ace

You do realize now that there was nothing "considerate" about helping your H hide his affair from his victim? Nor is it a sign of "trustworthiness" to help someone hide their crime. Rather, that is a sign of ENABLING. Helping someone hide their crime is not an act of love. It is a very dysfunctional trait that helps no one, least of all a marriage. When you love someone, you don't help them be a coward and a cheat, you help them become a man.

Cherished, if your child steals money are you going to help him hide his crime "out of consideration" for him so that you won't "betray his trust?"

Well, that is hairsplitting, but no one has ever said otherwise. However, exposure is often the thing that motivates the WS to end the affair. Facing consequences is often the event that motivates one to stop their wrongdoing.

Here is how I see it, Ace. There are no rules, but there are pretty hard and fast principles, when used will achieve the best outcome. And those principles will be applied in different ways to different situations and most everyone will have different opinions about HOW it is to be applied.

The trouble comes in when folks use differing advice to try to manipulate the principles to avoid conflict. This is quite common with someone who is scared.

I remember hearing your call to Dr. Harley and thought it was a novel approach. That being said, I can't count the times a forewarned OP or WS pre-empted exposure and spun the story, so I think it is good to warn folks about that here.

I regret not following Dr. Harley's advice on 10/1/01 to tell the OWH what I knew, although I did not think there was an affair going on. I thought my H was recovering from an EA. However, I no longer feel guilty. I was trying to follow the POJA and not do what he didn't want me to do.

Dr. Harley once called exposure like sunlight on mold.

Cherished

Exposing my affair to the OMW was the best thing my husband ever did to help our marriage. I don't know where it would have gone if he had not exposed. The affair had "officially" ended, but we were still communicating and talking to each other about how we're trying to "fix" our marriages. What a load of crap!

Exposure was the kiss of death to my affair! In fact, I need to thank my husband for his bravery (he is EXTREMELY non-confrontational and I would have put heavy odds against his ever calling the OMW) and insistence on exposure that helped put our marriage back together.

Edited to add: I begged and pleaded, threatened, bribed and did basically anything I could think of to prevent him from exposure. I swore that if he told OMW that it would be the end of us and there would be no hope for reconciliation. I'm glad he stepped up and had the b*lls to do what needed to be done, regardless of what I said...he knew that we couldn't fix our relationship unless he exposed.

cathy demonstrates what I have said in the past: show me a FWS who resents exposure to his victim and I will show you an UNRECOVERED WS. Every FWS who appreciates exposure and the fact that their victim knows always has the markings of a truly recovered person. Cathy clearly belongs in the latter category. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ya know, POJA is a great marriage building tool, but I don't think it should be utilized when determining whether or not to expose. In fact, I don't think the WS should have any say in the matter. JMO.

I don't think it is being considerate of a WS not to expose against their wishes. You can call it that. I would call it enabling...whether the BS thinks the affair is over or not. Thinking it is considerate is BS fog.

I hope this isn't going to be one of those threads denouncing the effectiveness of exposure. That is truly a lost cause.

Crap indeed. The A cannot die if there is still contact. Your post reads like someone who 'gets it'.

Mel,


Scared, I was petrified. Especially since I'd only been on MB for 7 days when I got tubed and LG came to my defense.....everyone started duking it out with him and I slipped out the back (removed myself from responding) and quietly sent a "request for resources on delayed exposure to OPS" to the mods.

I was even more scared when Dr. Harley HIMSELF (I questioned his identity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) answered and suggested I call the radio show, which we did Jan. 31. How do we access archived radio shows...is it even possible?

I only wish I had found MB and exposed after D-Day #1. I'm sure I would have fit into your latter category above, too....and avoided D-Days 2,3,& 4.

Oh well....just look how much character I've built up now, having endured all this garbage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> NOT!

But I own it now (thanks LA) so we'll build from here and try to pay it forward when these dastardly triggers quit trippin' me up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Mel....in total agreement with you on exposure.

Ace