My wife and I have been married for 5 years now. About a year ago my wife told me that she loves me but wasn't 'in love' with me anymore. At that time we had a 2 year old daughter and my wife said didn't think things were going to change but she didn't want to leave. A couple of weeks later we found out that we were expecting our second child. Instead of focusing on our marriage we were focusing on our daughter and the pregnancy. Everything ‘seemed’ better so I mistakenly assumed everything was fine.

We had our 2nd child and my wife stayed home from work for 3 months to take care of him. During this time my wife was trying to get me to change jobs and work at her company. She was trying to email her boss asking about any openings but her email account wasn't working and left a message for me to try to fix it. When I was on her account an email popped up from a male coworker thanking her for lunch that day. His last sentence said 'BTW my new car has a bigger back seat!!!' I immediately thought PA. I wanted to confront her but instead decided to wait and see her reply. I did ask her where she had lunch that day and asked if she went with anyone. She lied and said she was by herself. The next day she had erased the email without replying but he emailed her again asking 'Have you forgotten about me?'. She replied 'No I haven't. Funny fact about your new car...inappropriate!’ After checking other emails they had sent back and forth it was obvious that he was subtly hinting at a PA and she didn’t seem interested. I checked phone records for his cell & home #'s but there were no calls, only emails.

I figured this was a lucky wake up call and that I can't wait for it to happen for real. That's when I ran across MB and started reading HNHN. I never told my wife what I knew and that I was doing it to be a better husband and she read it with me.

She went back to work a few weeks later and any communication they had I had no access to. So I started asking about her coworkers. After reading the book she told me she realized there was a guy at work that had probably been making deposits in her love bank before she had read the book. I asked her if she ever saw him outside of work or ever went out alone together for lunch. She again lied but I didn't say anything. I asked her if she thought she needed to stop being friends with him. She said that she has no feelings for him in that way and she doesn't have many friends at work but if I wanted her to stop she would. I was too trusting and said as long as she new what the consequences could be that I would trust her.

That was a mistake because it drove me crazy over the next 3 weeks wondering what was happening. Finally, last night I told her everything I new. She admitted that he was meeting her conversation need and that she probably needed to end it to be fair to our marriage. She felt like she had betrayed me for lying about him and didn't know why she had been hiding him from me since there wasn't a PA. Especially since she has had other male friends but never hid them from me.

Since she has lied to me before about him I'm afraid she will do it again. I've read a lot about EA since then and realize that is exactly what she is having. I plan on sitting down with her tommorrow night and telling her that for our marriage to work it is no longer an option that she stays friends with him. I've already been using HNHN so I'm well on my way on Plan A and I just bought LB. But because they work together it isn't possible for her to not see him and she and I don't know what she needs to tell him because they weren't having an PA and he may not realize that they are having an EA.

If anyone has any advice on what she can tell him or what else I need to tell her tomorrow and where to go from here I'm all ears.

Hi bhge - Sounds like you're doing what you need to be doing right now. Keep the communications lines open with your W and work hard to not LB her when you discuss this OM. Trust is hard to regain once it's lost, but it IS possible to trust again.

Keep reading and communicating with your W... it's hard work, but it's well worth it. It does sound good that your W is willing to talk with you and is asking for your help in how to deal with this OM.

You might even want to go pay this guy a visit and let him know in no uncertain terms that he needs to stay away from your W. You don't need to be violent with him, but he needs to clearly understand that YOU are willing to fight for your M and that his attentions are not welcome. You might also stop by the HR department and let them know that your W is receiving unwanted attention...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Thanks for the encouraging words! This might be a stupid question but if I talk to HR dept. and I tell them that the she is receiving unwanted attention, do I tell them that it is unwanted by me or her? I'm afraid if I lie and tell them that it was unwanted by her and they have a talk with the OM she could end up mad at me for saying anything. I think going to the other man myself is probably a better idea than letting/hoping my wife will take care of it. The OM is also married with 2 kids, I've considered calling his wife but again if I get him in trouble I'm afraid it could backfire with my wife. The problem is I don't think that my wife realized that she was having an EA. Maybe that's just me being naive. I feel like I'm walking a tight rope, being firm enough to make sure this ends but at the same time making sure I don't do something that's going to push her away.

Hi bhge - Have you and your W talked about this OM and how she feels about him? If she's wanting to cut all ties with him, then ask her about talking with the HR department. If she says that she "doesn't want to hurt him"... then she probably still has some feelings for him. If she still has feelings for him, then I would probably go ahead and tell the HR department (even though you didn't POJA with your W) because the most critical thing right now is to expose the EA... expose it to the HR department and to the OM's W.

As far as telling the OM's wife, HE started this attack on your family and IMHO, if you know his home phone number, then I'd give her a call and let her know what's going on. This guy sounds like a player and he's "playing" at the expense of your family (and his).

I wouldn't worry too much about "pushing her away"... she's already in an EA.... and you sure don't want it to go any further!

Shine the light of day on this EA before it goes any further...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Did you save a copy of that "bigger back seat" e-mail? If so, you could consider giving it to OM's wife. It was certainly way out of line and indicates he was aggressively pursuing your wife.

What is she telling you now about their relationship? Does she still see him at work?

It is unlikely that she has told you everything about their relationship--number of times they got together for lunch, whether or not they made out in the back seat of his car, stuff like that.

Principals on this site would state that she should leave this job in order to have no contact with him.

You are most likely going to have a hard time getting past this EA. The lies are very difficult to get over. If she is still withholding information from you, which she probably is, it will be even more difficult for you. This information is likely to come out little by little and you are likely to stumble on info or seek out info on your own because of the pain and uncertainty you feel. Talk to her about radical honesty and how it is best to get all of the information about this EA out right now, rather than go through more pain over a longer period of time. See how she responds.

You say she is familiar with the concepts already right? Does she know you are posting here? If you suspect she is still wayward, do not tell her about your posts. If she has withheld info from you about the EA, I would define her as "wayward".

Tell her you need to know the whole truth of what they did with each other--how often they talked, how often they met, what they said to each other, if they touched in any way--pick any or all of these things that you feel you need to know and tell her you need to know them.

Tell her that for the sake of your marriage, she needs to have no contact with him and that this will involve writing a no contact letter that you both approve and it being sent to him. You can press the send button on the computer, or you can put it into the mail.

Get a copy of that "back seat" e-mail and plan to send it to his wife. Do not tell your wife that you are going to do this.

The letter can say the same things that any no contact letter states:
My interactions with you were disrespectful to my marriage. My husband and family did not deserve this disrespect. I want to stop this disrespect and work on my marriage. In order to do that, I want to have no further contact with you and I ask that you stop all contact with me.

You decide the timing on all of this, but the sooner, the better for your R.

first off, your marriage CAN still be saved. getting in touch with the OM's wife is crucial to exposure and stopping this affair. the longer affair's continue, the more damage that can be done to your marriage. you can do this! please do not tell your wife ahead of time that you are contacting HR or OM's wife. She will talk you out of it and this gives more time for the affair to continue since they thrive on secrecy. i really think you should check out harley's surviving affair book - it's a lot more relevant than just HNHS or LBs. your wife will go thru a process called withdrawal too, don't freak out. Also the not in love, can return.

First I want to thank all of you for your responses. The fact that you are here willing to listen and help a complete stranger through a hard time is unbelievable. There has been a lot of good advice. I agree that the OMW needs to know. I know that if she new something I would want to know about it. I don't know what kind of reception I will receive but it has to be done. The one thing holding me back about the HR is that, like I said, my wife is trying to get me to go to work there. Which also leads me to believe that she didn't realize she was having an EA. I would be working in a room of about 60 people, her and the OM would be 2 of them. I would think it would be almost impossible for their EA to continue with me working side by side with them. If I say something to the HR, they might see me working there with her as a problem and not hire me. I would probably rather talk to the OM and OMW. S and I have already had a few talks about this situation but tomorrow night will be the first time since I've known it is an EA. I will let her know at that time that she will have to do everything in her power to seperate herself from him at work until we can figure something out about working conditions. Thanks again for all of your help. I love all of the advice.

Hey bhge,



Don't bet on it! Mrs. RIF and I worked in the same building and that's when she had her long term EA/PA...

The powerful attraction of an A will enable both parties to find or make ways to connect with each other, whether you are there or not...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Once the line has been crossed, and workmates have an EA, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to keep working together. If they work together, there is always a possibility the affair will ignite.

I don't like the whole "backseat" comment. It sounds almost like they have already BEEN in his old car's backseat. It might just be me, but it seems suspicious.

Notify his wife of EXACTLY what is going on. Don't let your wife know that you are going to do this. That may put an end to the affair.

Thanks again Rif for the info. I agree that it could still happen. I just don't know why she would want me to work there with her when I don't already. But you are right, if they want it to happen it will happen. Believer, that is exactly what I thought. I figured for sure that if I waited for her reply that I would get the hard core evidence I needed. But then when she replied "funny fact about your new car...inappropriate!" it definately didn't give me the feeling that they had, although I still had my suspicions. I've scoured phone records for the last year and there is no sign of his phone # anywhere. There was also a past email that he sent her that said "I've got some work gossip for you. Here is my phone # and I'll fill you in." She replied "Nice try trying to give me your phone #. And I already know all about it." So again he is definately trying to start a PA, or so it seems, and it seems like she is satisfied with just the EA. Unfortunately the email is gone about the back seat but that comment will probably stick with me forever. The rest of the email wasn't comforting either. Here is what I remember about it.

"I was so excited to see you that I forgot to pay you back for lunch. I guess I'll have to return the favor for date #11. You look great and you seem really happy."

I still am not 100% sure that nothing physically has happened but I don't think there is any question that he is interested in a PA. He also emailed her back on about 6 different occasions after that asking if she was available for lunch and everytime she said no, eventhough I was at work and she would have no problem having lunch. I don't think she realized he was after her physically until that email and since then when she said "innapropriate" it seems she was trying to avoid him. I still don't know what to think for sure but I wish I had that email to send to his wife.

bhge, the others are exactly right. She needs to cease all contact with this man unless you are willing to live with an affair for the next few years. We have affairs on this forum that turned into long term affairs because they didn't heed this step. Here is what Dr. Harley has to say about a situation such as yours:


Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity: How to Avoid an Affair
Letter #1


Introduction: Most of the letters I receive are from people whose spouses are having an affair. Affairs destroy families and the innocent spouses don't know how to respond to the unfolding tragedy they witness. But once in a while I receive a letter from someone who is about to have an affair, and wants help in how to avoid it. This week, I am printing their letters and my answers. Quite frankly, the only one who can avoid an affair is the one that is about to have one. While his or her spouse can make the job easier or more difficult, the spouse can't avoid it for them. So these letters from those who are tempted get to the heart of the issue, how to avoid an affair.


Dear Dr. Harley,
I have been married almost seven years to a wonderful man who treats me like a queen. I was pregnant when my husband and I got married, but I never experienced the passion for him that I know I can feel for a man. We now have four children and he has been a solid foundation for our relationship and our family. He has done whatever he can do to make me happy. I do not deserve him....

I am a very aggressive woman in my mid 30's, I love to party, dance and laugh. My husband, on the other hand is very passive and serious. He's just not much fun. The problem: I am gravitating towards an older man in his late 40's. A man with a tremendous zest for life, who too is married, and in the same business as myself. I have not had sex with this man, but I feel as though I am falling in love.

I am overwhelmed with guilt...I know that I am a horrible wife for feeling this way..PLEASE HELP!!

N.S.



Dear N.S.
The man you are attracted to is meeting one or more of your emotional needs much better than your husband does. From your description he seems to be meeting your needs for conversation and recreational companionship. You have such a good time when you're with him that his account in your Love Bank has reached the threshold that triggers the feeling of romantic love.

It's not uncommon to find a person that does a good job meeting our needs, but it's dangerous when our spouses are doing a bad job. At first, we simply find ourselves in love with this person. If we also love our spouses, we shake it off and move on. But if we are not in love with our spouses, like you, we feel confused as to why we don't have the same feeling toward our spouses. Then, in an effort to make sense of it all, we think we are being cheated by our spouses out of what's rightfully ours, a fulfilling life. We think, if our spouses can't do the job, we have the right to find someone else who can, and we should grab the opportunity while it exists. It may be a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

Many faced with this dilemma are not in your position, where your spouse has dedicated himself to your happiness. They find themselves married to spouses who have ignored them or even abused them. It's much easier to justify an affair under those conditions. But since your husband has tried very hard to give you the best he has, and you have four children who need you to stay together, your feelings of guilt are quite understandable.

Although your husband has put a great deal of effort into making you happy, he has missed the target, apparently right from the beginning. His efforts have been misdirected. He wants to meet your most important emotional needs, but has never learned how. It is not his lack of dedication or good intentions -- it is lack of knowledge. But he can learn to meet your needs as well as anyone, and you can be more in love with him than you've ever been. When that happens, your marriage will be secure.

You are on the brink of an affair, and once you jump in, you may not be able to get yourself out before you have done untold damage to your family. Sooner or later most affairs die out, but in their wake they leave unspeakable pain. Your husband would rather have his hand cut off than go through the agony of your unfaithfulness to him. It is the most cruel decision you could possibly make. Avoid that choice at all costs. Instead, dedicate yourself to training your husband to become the man you've always needed.

First, you should avoid seeing the man at work altogether, and it will mean quitting your job. You are already addicted to him, and your emotions will control your decisions whenever you see each other. It won't be long before you have thought through a justification of your behavior, and then there will be no stopping you. You will lose all perspective and ruin your marriage and family, to say nothing about intentionally hurting a man who cares a great deal for you. Six months after your affair has started you will be so up to your eyeballs in guilt you will be contemplating suicide. Get this man out of your life at all costs!

Then, you should try to come to grips with what it is this man does for you that you need so much you'd risk giving up everything to have it. After you identify what it is about the other man that you find so attractive, try to teach your husband to do whatever it is. I understand personality limitations -- your husband is more passive, while this man is more aggressive, like you. But you should be able to identify your needs, such as conversation and recreational companionship, that can be met regardless of the personality type of the person you are with. I have seen remarkable recoveries of couples just like you with seemingly incompatible personalities. It turned out that their personalities were not incompatible, it was their habits and activities that were incompatible. Once their lifestyle changed, their marriages were terrific.

Four children can do a lot to change your lifestyle and your ability to meet each other's needs. You and your husband should create more privacy in your marriage and set aside time to be alone so that you can meet each other's most important needs. Your husband should be your favorite recreational companion. To give him a fair chance to succeed, make him your ONLY recreational companion for a while. Train him in on the activities you enjoy the most.

My book, Fall In Love, Stay In Love, will teach you to achieve exactly what you need: Compatibility. Read it with your husband, and build the marriage both of you need.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024_qa.html

I will tell you what I suspect. I think she has had an affair with him in the past and broke up with him. She asked him to return to a coworker relationship and he is not complying; he is chasing her. She wants you to come to work with her to PROTECT HER. She would rather do this than tell you the truth because you would insist she leave her job.

She wrongly thinks she can turn an affair back into a platonic friendship so she can sweep it under the rug. That is impossible, of course.

I believe she does want the marriage, though, but is not being honest about the past. She feels like this can be left in the past. But it CAN'T. This secret will always cause a wedge between you.

I hate to even ask this, but is there any chance that your new baby is not yours?


I think there is a much bigger context to this comment that is missing from the picture. A man does not just say this out of the blue, IMO.

bhge,

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with ML's analysis of the situation. You are going to insist that SHE leaves her job, and if she doesn't, you need to expose to HR. I would also expose to OMW.

I have been afraid of the possibility that the child is not mine. I've thought about having a paternity test but it terrifies me of what it may reveal. I'm definately glad I checked with you guys first before I have my talk with my wife. My original plan was to have her end it with her coworker. I now plan on doing that myself with a phone call. When I do this should I give him the ultimatum of quitting himself or telling HR about the emails? In our line of work there are very few jobs that are 8-5 M-F. My current job has both evening and weekend shifts and if my wife leaves she will probably have to work the same. With 2 kids that would mean we would have to work opposite shifts and would never see each other. I would think that would be almost as devastating to our marriage as the EA. T

Mel is the best person to advise you on all this. You cannot force OM to quit his job. But I think you should go ahead and contact OM and tell him to stop contacting your wife. As I said, you can't make him quit his job. But either he quits his job or your wife leaves her job. If he quits, then you and she can work there together. If he will not quit his job, then your wife has to quit her job. I would think that if you have to contact HR about all this, they would be unlikely to hire you. But if your WW refuses to quit the job, you should contact HR.

This is pretty serious and your marriage is at risk. I am sorry to hear that you already have some percentage of doubt about paternity. But Mel and others are great counsel. Listen to them.

You can still contact OM's wife with the e-mail information. Also, if you feel better about it, there are probably ways to retrieve that e-mail to show OM's wife the actual e-mail

Yes, contact the other man's wife. She needs to know that HER marriage and family are being assaulted.

You can do a paternity test yourself, and mail in the swabs. I would certainly do it for my peace of mind. I'm sure that you love your child, and it wouldn't make any difference, but it would put your mind at ease.

bhge, I would not discuss anything with the OM, but would follow your original plan and talk to your wife. Ask her to leave the job and end all contact with the OM. Somehow you will have to find jobs that are more accommodating. A job can be replaced, a marriage cannot. And as long as she continues to work with this guy, the affair remains a huge threat. It is like sending an alcoholic into the bar every day and telling him he can't drink. Eventually, the inevitable weak moment collides with opportunity and he is drinking again. This is what you are facing with your wife.

But I suspect you are not getting the whole story here, bhge. I think she has had an intense affair and is not telling you the correct story. She WANTS to tell you so bad that she is spoonfeeding partial truths to alleviate her guilt, IMO. But she is still afraid to tell you the whole story. I would keep this in mind when you speak to her. Let her know you believe there is much she is not telling you, and that you understand she is probably doing it to protect you. Reassure her that you don't need to be protected and can handle the full truth.

In the meantime, secretly make arrangements to get a DNA test. The OMW also needs to know about this affair. You may find that she already knows about it, but just hasn't picked up the phone to call you.

I agree with ML. She has had an affair with this man, but she is trying to stop without you finding out. Any contact with this POS is a chance for a recurrance. She is too weak to be able to completely end it and move on. You need to force her to do it. I know you are worried about the paternity of your child. But if it is not yours, does it really change anything? You are that child's REAL father. Just fight to keep your family together. I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks again for your responses. I have a couple of questions. First, those emails he sent her were sent from his work email. Couldn't that email, plus her response, be considered sexual harrassment? Wouldn't their HR take that email very seriously without me having to tell them about an affair? The other question is about talking to the other man. If W were to quit her job, it would obviously take a couple of weeks before that could happen. If I don't talk to the OM, isn't that 2 weeks or possibly more that they would have to communicate. Or should I just hope that the OMW will take care of it?

Someone had mentioned finding old emails. My wife usually hard deletes all of her emails, from him or anyone else. I don't know of any way to get those back. If someone knows I'm all ears because I would love to get that email back. However I was able to pull up the response to it. Here it is preceded by what I remember from original email:

From OM sent sometime on Friday June 8th

It was so good to see you again. I was so excited/mesmerized that I forgot to pay you back for lunch. I guess I'll have to treat next time for date #11. You look really great and you seem happy.

BTW...my new car has a bigger back seat!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

From: OM
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:58 AM
To: W
Subject: ???

Have you forgot about me???

From: W
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:16 PM
To: OM
Subject: RE: ???

No sir, I have not. Funny fact about your new car. . . inappropriate. I deleted your last email so I forgot what it was about. Gotta go, baby crying upstairs…sorry so short.

From: OM
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2007 9:07 AM
To: W
Subject: ???

No worries…sorry for being inappropriate but I thought you might have forgot how witty and charming I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />…I think my previous email was mostly apologizing for not thanking you for lunch and hoping that you would want to do it again soon so I could treat…hope you are having a banner day.

Ciao