Rin, can you hear yourself getting defensive? I think what it is, is that we're wondering "what's the point" of all the recent interaction lately? Are you feeling him out? Seeing if it's the same? What are you doing?

IMHO, STBX coming back to you would look like this:

A broken man full of the heart knowledge of just how much damage he has caused his family by his actions. A man willing to do whatever it took to heal his family. A man who would be bending over backwards to woo Rin back to him. A humble man willing to give the shirt off of his back to make things right. A man who knows he is LOST without his family.

Not a man sitting on the couch texting on his cell phone and rolling his eyes when asked about a girlfriend. That kind of question wouldn't even be necessary.

See the difference?

I was feeling him out and I saw what I was looking for last night! That's what I meant by he was just taking up space...

i don't want someone who's taking up space...i thought I was being pretty clear and then I hear this stuff about him all over again...I knOW...yes, I'm getting defensive...i GOt it...

I even said I'm doing the EN for ME and my next relationship...

I DON'T WANT A MAN SITTING ON MY SOFA DOING WHAT HE WAS DOING...

Gotcha!

Rin...when you are ready to drop the attitude perhaps you will actually hear what is being said rather than reacting to what you think you hear.

I had to end that post quickly, my Fedex guy showed up...

That man (?) sitting of my sofa in not ENOUGH for me...I want someone who's in to me...who can care for me...that's what started the questions about expectations, and what I need...love...etc...

Being on his tuff, I saw alot of things, being on my tuff I saw same old same old...course, it started on my tuff bc I was comfortable that way...

So I'm sorry that I was getting defensive today...I may have a laps of judgement from time to time but I can see, you guys were right...

I'm just glad I didn't get my feelings hurt...expecting something that wasn't there...

MeDC- that I'm better than having a man like that in my life...

That I deserve better than to have that type of person in my life...in my house!

That's why I like you BTW, because you are so direct!

I need to remove him from my life across...I need to find that happy place of what exactly is coparenting...stand firmer...taller...

????

I didn't feel like I was being heard...that's why I got defenfive

Having him back the littlest bit in setting me back and hendering him...

Rin,

I think the point is WHY?

Given your knowledge of him why even bother going where you are going with this.

IMVHO you should probably be focused on a D as quickly as possible.

If I were a betting man you are missing male companionship but also feel as though you are still married. That narrows down the group of men that you can ..... with down to one your STBX.

I think if you put time and space between you and he things will get easier for you.

Last night was just a dose of reality. IMVHO it is rude to sit around TMing people in the presence of others.

I can understand if it is business but it wasn't business.

I agree with MEDC I completely forgot about the tools he took.

So he burns your books, Makes you and the boys move out and share a single bedroom, doesn't maintain the home, steals your stuff, pays support late, I am probably missing some things but you get the point. So you invite him over for the game.

I think you have already devalued what you are worth to allow him your company outside of handing the kids off.

YOU NAILED IT...B/C I TEARED UP...

I can't even talk about it right now...

In the mist of typing this...STBX called...I'll post on that later too!

I finished the ENQ...right before your post...I got my top five ENs...

you said companionship, male compansionship...i.e. football...which I have always been big on...I like to play it, talk about it, joke about it...if I don't have someone to do that with, it's no fun for me...

I've been missing riding on the back on a bike too...

ANyway, there was more to it but I forgot what I was thinking in the process from work to picking up the kids to home...

About STBX calling, it was perfect timing...he asked if I was sick, i said no,( b/c I just started crying when I read your post, so my nose was running)...he said something about his day not being bad but he was tired...I interrupted and stated that I had been having a bad day the past two and it was primarily b/c he was back in my life and I can't handle that right now....

His tone changed to soft, concerned and said that was fine that he would stay away...suggested that I go home and love on the boys...we said goodbye and that was that...

So that's done...

lessons learned...I'm better...

Edited to say that STBX did apologize also saying that he didn't know if that was any consolation...

He's just talking to you about being TIRED..and you are talking about him being "back in your life"..that's what you call it?..and you are DIVORCING soon...

You don't owe him any kind of explanation...

He's lightheartedly talking about his day?

You don't seem to be getting this, Rin...

You TALK as if he hasn't HURT you or as if you have FORGIVEN him...

WHY?

What MOTIVATION does he have to CHANGE?

He ASSUMES that lighthearted conversation with you is OK?

What WORK is he doing?...YUCK..

Sorry, I do mean you well but he has me POed..THE AUDACITY OF HIM...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Oh... I think what Rin is doing is what a lot of us may have done at one time or another: We slap on the rose colored glasses once we glimpse just a LITTLE of what drew us to our spouse in the first place... or if out WS shows us a LITTLE of what we wanted from them, we were quick to jump back into the fire... thinking that maybe, just maybe it really wasn't that bad.

What happened, in my case, was that I quickly would see that the same WS that was so inconsiderate, was STILL so inconsiderate, he was just willing to cake eat, and lap up all of the good in me. Until I finally just told him that NO, he of all people was not going to get the BEST part of me....
Rin, I think that you have come a LONG, LONG way (you go girl! :-)) and I think that once you see what you would have to SETTLE for, it would no longer be appealing to you...

If you think about it, sitting there texting someone while he was at your house was rude. And if it was a new man, would you have tolerated it? NO, I am sure that you would not have. So PLEASE don't tolerate anything with him that you would not with anyone else! There is no shame in having standards for how you want to be treated....

I think that you are doing great..... Just thought I would give my 2 cents! :-)

Rin,

Take a few steps back,,,,,,slow down,,,, breathe and Listen. Take time to really process. Step out of the interaction for a while and I think your vision will clear up.

Remember the Goddess you have become & the Standards by which Anyone is allowed to interact with that Goddess are now VERY high,,,,,,,,,,,,,because YOU, my dear, are Worth it!

I'll catch up with you later.

{{Rin}}

Morning Mimi! I wasn't getting it no conpletely when you were posting...

I got, okay, not good for me, not good for him...then, I was thinking about what you were saying about ACOA...still not hitting me...

BUT with Sadmo's post, it hit me...I was accepting unacceptable behavior that I would not accept from a new person...I can see that in my new friendships and I was accepting it BECAUSE it was him...he was filling some ENs I didn't see...

I do see that he's headed in the right direction, and it's a matter of tough love...getting out of his way...getting out the way of myself...

I do see some remorse...BUT, a HUGE BUT, it's not enough...I failed to mentioned that he said if I needed anything that he was only a phone call away...that was in that tone sounding concerned and caring, that sound tone...heard DH in there...

Thing is the ENs he was filling aren't enough...I do want it all...I want not just one or two of my ENs filled by the person I'm with...b/c that WOULD be settling...I got to see that this round...

Example: with the LSU game, the only EN I got was RC...in the future, I want RC, Affection, Conversation, H&O, FC, DS, Affirmation...and that's just with that sitch...I want to have Financial security also...SF...

I need all 10 in order to be happy but I really see how the top five are important...I couldn't make that connection in the past when I thought about it...

I REALLY got to see what he does for me and what he doesn't do for me...

I understand that the Goddess attitude is not just about what you wear and how you feel about yourself...with OP I can have a red flag go off and say to myself, I'm not dealing with this person...well, red flags don't go off with him b/c I'm familiar with his behavior...I have accepted it for so long that it's "normal" (Took me a little while, huh, Mimi? I'm a little slow sometimes!)

Well, I need to step up to the plate and no longer accept that...So, I'm returning to my cave under the beautiful waterfall which will only have light to exchange information about the kids AT the time when he drops off...

Still not sure about that PBL, b/c you all think that he's dangerous...I still don't...but we won't go there...and it doesn't matter right now b/c I have no plans to be around him, to interact with him outside of the kids, no Powwows, no dinners, no nothing...

Now, all of this IS STILL SINKING IN...and it's not easy to see nor accept...

I'm sorry for my behavior yesterday...I was waiting to see what I needed to see and I saw it...I'm just glad that it didn't cause huge amounts of pain and hurt and send me reeling...

Not that it didn't hurt, I think anytime that I have a huge relevation that there's a certain amount of pain that goes with it but it wasn't unbearable...if that makes senses...

Like a few weeks ago when it really hit me ALL the damamge that I did in the M...

Oh, last Friday I called that realtor back to try to get her to come to the house so I can move forward with the property settlement and I haven't got anything back from her...so I'm going to contact another one ot two and try to get a move on with this thing...the one I contacted was recommended by my Aunt, but I know that since before the holidays...

I have 73 days left and I would like to have everything finalized ASAP...that way all we have to do is show up in court, agree to sign the papers and be done...

it's not full steam ahead but it's ahead...

:half smile:

Thanks to all of you! i know I'm hardheaded and stubborn at times...need to use that to my advantage instead of disadvantage in the future...I'm working on it!

After reading your post, I heard this song and thought it fit you exactly right now.

Jordin Sparks - Tattoo


Gonna add this one to this music thread.

Good for you.

So the point is this.....when the D is final you can go out, if you so chose and find a person to "hang out with".

The rose colored BLINDERS were on because you had some needs you wanted filled and he could only fill them.

So yes you are settling, but your choice is to settle for nothing or settle for a littl bit above that, your stbx.

In comparison that looks pretty good. If you wait though and don't get enmeshed and confused you will have more choices where settling won't be necessary.

You can have a person that will sit on the couch with you stroke your hair and watch the game with you. Without texting.

Possibly a man that already KNOWS how to take care of finances etc.

Now in all fairness some people aren't good with finances so if one person in the family is and the other doesn't mind that then things are fine.

YOu can find a man that loves motorcycles and enjoys riding but when there is a choice between a rally and a family function there is no question which he will chose.

You probably can't have those with the STBX though until he decides he needs to change and gets help to do so.

Thank you E! I will listen to that later!

Frog- I wanted to break this down a little further for myself...

1st interaction: putting the trampoline together for the boys

RC- I like building stuff...he was in my terrority of what I like to do...

Phy. Attraction- he has always been handsome to me...

H&O/Conversation/Affirmation- he apologized for several things like: giving me a hard time about money and bills, said that he should have helped...apologized for the quality/quanity of time spent with the boys and me, admitted that he cleans up after himself now, admitted to living at the camper on and off, quilty/shameful look on his face when I mentioned my hurt/pain of knowing that he was still with OW...told me that I looked good in the clothes that I was wearing and that's what he was trying to tell me, that I needed to dress better (I always took it as being controlling but it was me being stubborn)...

Family Committment/Domestic support: he was there helping with something for the boys, cleaning up after himself when he got his coffee, told the told to get in the tub, was displincing them when he was there telling them not to talk to me that way, don't do that, listen up, etc...waited on them to get out of the tub, gave them hugs and kisses goodbye...

Affection- A hug when he left...thanked me for the time with us...respected my space...and I guess undivided attention goes in here...

This was the best interaction that we had for me and he said him too that it was great getting to know me again...

I have to look at the other interactions later!

Frog - I have always been better at money issues compared to him...I attribute that to me growing up poor I guess you could say and he grew up having, both parents worked as school teachers/principles...family had money to help out when something happened or he worked with odd and end jobs to get what he wanted, pay for his ins. , etc...

He knows HOW to work but not how to manage...I can do both!

Okay, I looked at the other interactions with STBX...

My problem is that I'm so giving where he is concerned...I come to his rescue b/c THAT'S who I am...always willing to offer help...HE IS UNDESERVING of my help...

The 2nd interaction he met 7 ENs: FC, DS, Phy. Attrac., Conversation, Affirmation and Affection...not to the BEST of his ability...most of the talk was about the kids Christmas presents, putting them together...he was spending time with us, undivided attention...I cooked breakfast for us, he shared in that, comments on how well I always cooked my eggs...good interaction until something sexual came up, my fault, and he said him too...then I replied with he had a GF...hence his comment about yeah, but I have a W too...and me replying with only for the next three months, MOF, 88 days...this was right before he left...we hugged and he tried to give me a peck on the lips but I turned my head and he got my cheek...

I was unwilling to let him met my EN completely b/c of the sitch...

3rd interaction: he called me asking if I would watch the boys for a few hours while he went pick up some things...asked if I had eaten, I hadn't, said he would bring me to go eat...Admitted after he returned that he and OW had broke it off...

I was unaware that he had to go to a friend's (our friend's, I had not socialized with since b/f I left!) to drop off the trailer first...good visit with them...he was Tming the whole time during the ride and in the restuarant...I said that I had phone calls to made too but was waiting until I got home to do it...

he said to go ahead...I replied that I was trying to give him my undivided attention...He said he was sorry and that sometimes you just had to remind men...he was doing fine with he owned it but screwed up by saying the thing about OM...Then he stopped with the TMing...

This was also the coldest night that we have had and he ran out of propane at the camper adn I had to save him so that my children would not freeze b/c he had no one else to call...

Only 2 ENs were met that day/night H&O, and Conversation...I had my graud up extremely high...

I'll start with the 4th interaction on my next post!

Yes but you understand you are comparing these interactions to air.

My point is based on your beleif that until the papers are signed you are M'd. Therefore you cannot get these needs filled by anyone of the male persuasion. (except STBX)

Anything looks better then nothing.

So I understand he seems to be trying. WHAT other then WORDS has he really done.


Has he offered you more money? How much EXTRA have you paid your attorney because of his actions. Retribution would be saying Rin I am sorry I was such a putz with the separation how much extra did the attorney cost because of that. It cost me 2k because you took the house etc. Rin I want to give you the 2k my actions cost you. How much have you spend getting the home back in shape? Becuase I want to make good on that too.

Saying sorry is easy, SHOWING SORRY takes work and follow through.


So do my kids. I bet yours do too!!!!

The point is you have done the work and noticed this now. He has a lot of work to do as well.

I see him charming his way back in without doing any heavy lifting.

Would you respect someone that let you back without making up for the wrongs you did them? I wouldn't.

HAHA, we posted at the same time...

No, I wouldn't respect that person and I see what you are saying about something being better than nothing right now...

On the apology that was for when we were together, not since I left and i see what you are saying there too..

Right along with Medc and Mimi about doing the work...returning things, etc...Actions...

Now my question is and lets see if I can word it correctly...

I know that it's in my nature to want to help people...give to them...I offer without them asking...How should I handle this in the future with him? B/c really due to my nature I am enabling him not to want to do better for himself, allow him to hit bottom...

And with that being said the other interaction are meaningless reguardless of what happened...