I looked up the acronyms in these posts and now they make more sense to me. So I guess I am a wayward spouse. Doesn't sound too good a title. The man I'm talking about is the other man(OM) and my husband is just H. I went ahead and talked briefly to my h about how i'm feeling. He seemed to be dismissing what I was trying to tell him or just tell me that it doesn't mean he isn't attracted to me because he doesn't say it. I only talked briefly with him because really I just don't think he understands me. The more I tried to explain the more I just wished I could talk to my friend. I coudln't tell him about om. And I just felt like I had to talk to him. So I called him again. We click when we talk. He doesn't say anything negative to me, he comforts me. I just am confused. Could it be wrong when we click so well? He isnt' happy and I'm not happy.

I said:


You said:


I was right. You need to tell your husband about OM. Otherwise, you'll never stop talking to him.

You said:


He didn't understand you because you were LYING to him. You didn't tell your husband the WHOLE STORY. I bet if you told him you were having an affair, he'd pay more attention to what you had to say.

And then you showed how foggy you were when you said:


You click when you talk because he's trying to get you to have sex with him. When you first started dating your H, I'm sure you clicked with him as well. Don't deny it to justify your actions, you wouldn't have married the man if you didn't. But eventually, both of you got complacent and stopped talking. So what is the solution? Talk to someone else? NO!!!! Working on talking with your husband again. He likely has NO CLUE the level of your dissatisfaction.

Let's say you did leave your husband to be with OM. Do you know what would happen? Eventually he would stop talking to you as well. You wouldn't click any more. Is it worth ruining two families, so you can feel a little better right now, even though it won't last? Is it worth throwing away your dignity for a fleeting feeling? The ONLY reason OM is talking with you and caring at all about what you have to say is because HE"S TRYING TO GET LAID!!! Can't you figure that out? Your husband isn't trying to get laid anymore, he's become complacent and is taking you for granted. It is up to you and your husband to work through these problems.


Drugs feel really good, but they are wrong. Eating a pound of cheesecake a day might feel well, but it isn't good for you. I'm a man and I LOVE sex, but having a mistress so I can get laid every day is wrong, no matter how much enjoyment I get out of sex.

You need to TELL YOUR HUSBAND ALREADY! I'm getting fed up with you. You are no different than any other cheating wife. They all say the same things. Do you want to be known as a homewrecking tramp? Do you want your children to know that you broke up their family because you left their dad for another man? Do you believe in God? What is His stance on marriage and adultery? The devil is trying to trick you into doing the wrong thing. TELL YOUR HUSBAND NOW, so he can help you work on your problems and keep you away from this slimy OM.

As a betrayed spouse who had to deal with an unrepentant WW for several months as she continued her affair right in front of my face, your justifications are a slap in the face. I can tell you that my WW wrote in her journal the following passage:


She wrote that in her diary, and I saw it. Now, she is horrified that she ever wrote that and wishes it would have never happened. She understands now how foggy her thinking was. Get your head on straight. There is no way to justify your behavior, so CUT OFF ALL CONTACT WITH OM AND TELL YOUR HUSBAND before you do something you REALLY REGRET FOR LIFE!

Swept,
Jim is so right. You did just lie to your H by telling him a few distorted pieces of information. Does your H know that you are talking to this OM every night? Does he know that the night the OM did not call, you were basically beside yourself and could think of little else?

Don't you think your H has a right to know what is going on here? You are clearly addicted and obsessed with this foggy fake relationship with the OM. Do you think that these little phone calls and brief meetings make a real relationship? You don't even know this guy. Really, you don't even know him and you are this caught up with the whole deal? It is not real. More than likely, he wants to have [email]s@x[/email] with you. You have no idea what is going on in his marriage==just what he is telling you.

Get honest with your H and build the relationship of your dreams with your H. You can do this. You have this site to help you do it. Wouldn't that be a wonderful feeling--to be excited over your H? It is within your power to do just that. Tell your H how you are feeling and get working on your own M. Go no contact with this OM. Who knows what he is all about, but it is no good.

This is so true.

I'm a FWW- you have no idea the world of hurt you will be in if you continue this.

Please stop right now, be truthful with your husband, and get into marriage counseling.

I have been EXACTLY where you are right now, EXACTLY and I wish I would have stopped before things went any further.

If you don't want to be with your H anymore the least you can do out of respect for him is to get a divorce before you get involved with someone else!!!!!

Please, please, please tell your H.

Your H is a good man. He will be angry, but you can work through this together. You can learn new ways of communicating with one another. You can have a better M and a better life.

OM is a slimeball. I guarantee he is a serial cheater. You feel bad now... wait until you give up your M for a dirtbag who unfortunately chose you... you really could be anybody... unfortunately, he honed in on you. You are not special, you are a conquest. You are SF.

OM knows EXACTLY what to say. He is smooth... they all are. PLEASE tell your H. And think about telling OMW. Is she a friend of yours?

I'm praying for you. I was a FWW for many years. Please, please, please listen to what the good people are telling you here.

Katie Mae

I am a FWW swept. I am fimiliar with all that you are saying, I had the same emotions. If you can muster all the strength you've got, please do, and don't go down that road. It is soooooo easy to fall into the trappings of an A. What is not easy is the emotional fallout and the distruction they cause. You are feeling high today? Think about feeling lower than low when you H finds out or OM's wife finds out. It is AWFUL. Remember, what goes up, must come down, and it will come down hard.

Please, don't make the same mistakes I did... or the many other FWW's that are here. I am so glad you are posting! At least there is still a chance for you.

Yes, yes, and yes again. It absolutely IS wrong for you to continue speaking with this OM. I am involved in a situation that is identical to yours. My wife did not make ONE attempt to talk to me prior to starting an EA that turned into a PA (don't know to what extent yet though). She went from telling me every day how much she loved me and how happy she was, to telling me that she felt like my roommate and that we didn't have anything in common. After snooping, I discovered the EA (which had already started when she first expressed her unhappiness) and the PA. The EA/PA went on for 3 weeks before I confronted her and now she is so ashamed of herself and begging for my forgiveness.

The point is that all of this could have been avoided with JUST ONE real conversation between her and I, in which she was totally honest. It sounds like you made barely a token effort to get your husband to talk to you, because you went into the conversation with the bias that he couldn't understand you like your OM could.

Even if you don't feel you owe your H the honesty, do it for yourself. Tell your H everything and give him the chance to correct so that when all is said and done, you KNOW that you did not turn your back on the marriage. If you continue down this road you are going, it won't be your H that threw away the marriage, it will be you.

Please, please, please, take the advice everyone here is giving you and act on it. Not one person has supported your affair with the OM, and that should tell you something. You are in the wrong, but you have the chance to correct it before its too late.

Do the right thing.

SW,

No wonder you can't think clearly...you are living a lie every minute of the day.

Not a speck of truth in it.

You are manipulating your BH by withholding the truth of your actions...to put another man ahead of your marriage, your BH and your own vows.

You are manipulating OM's W by withholding the truth of your actions because her husband is putting you ahead of his marriage, his BW and his own vows.

You are lying by omission every minute of the day to your BH and to OMW. Both of those people are innocent. They are not choosing to attack two marriages...you are. OM is.

Because you think you click with each other.

Okay.

And when you stop clicking with each other, with two wrecked marriages in your rearview mirror...and he finds another woman who clicks...and you find another man who clicks...then the wreckage continues, the number of victims mounts...and in ten years, you look back and see where you keep experiencing the same issues again and again and replacing your partner doesn't work.

What then?

You can never undo the wreckage...the destruction. Not within our human power. You are making the choice to destroy based on some guy, much like your BH when you first met, who "gets you" until he really gets you...and then decides, you've got too much baggage, you're too easy, he could never trust you (what you do with him, you'll do to him)...and drops you.

Because getting you now is fantasy...it's all words...and it's all lies...he's lying and you're lying...and you're choosing to believe you are not lying to each other. How old are you?

When you first meet someone...you show best selves...how often have you yelled, given the silent treatment, withdrawn from, ignored, begged, blamed, accused this guy?

How often have you acted just those ways to your BH?

If this were cocaine, you could see the wreckage quickly...and I think you do...and you just don't care.

Why not live from truth? Choose to make a copy of your phone records to show your BH how much you talk to this guy...state your feelings about this guy...and that you know you're having an affair. Then mail a copy of your records to OMW...stating the same things.

That way, you can stop manipulating others through withholding important information from their lives...stop manipulating The Truth.

Btw, there's no "trying to talk"...there's talking and not talking. "I am having an affair with (state his name). I choose to think about him all the time, feel deep feelings for him. I am not honoring, cherishing or acting from love for you right now. You meet my EN of FS and DS and other acts of service. I'm using you for some of my ENs and him for other ENs."

That's real talking. Owning what you're doing and why you're doing it.

You know what was at the core of my infidelities? I wouldn't accept who I really was...that I was whole...and what I wouldn't do for myself, I could not do for others. So I didn't accept my DH for who he really was...didn't really have the time for constantly judging him for what he was or wasn't doing. So I felt judged, rejected (not accepted) and blamed my DH for doing that to me...for being the cause of my own feelings.

There is a truism for humans..."Where your thoughts dwell, there is your treasure." Like the Golden Rule, we usually twist it around...what this means is...you choose where your thoughts dwell...what you choose to dwell on becomes your treasure. You are generating your own feelings for OM...he's not doing it. You're choosing to dwell on him and forsake your vows, your marriage and your BH. Harley proves if you will dwell on your choice to love your BH, to act on it... then you will spill over, filled up from feelings of love...because that's where you chose to dwell.

Not real...not based on who OM is...based totally on WHO you are. Your choice. You can fall deeply in love with your BH again...or live in fantasy. One heals and rebuilds a marriage...the other destroys two of them.

Just like you're blaming OM for your own feelings...and your BH for your feelings. They are yours. No one can be the cause, control or cure for you. You're living that backwards...and OM knows well that if he can take the credit for causing you to feel accepted, then someday, like your BH, he'll be sure to feel the blame...be torched, just the same.

What you do to BH, you'll do to OM. Because you're doing it to yourself.

Choose to be truthful...so you can know the truth of yourself. Continue to lie like you are, and you won't know when you're lying to yourself, or others, or not. Total fog and chaos. That's what comes from lying every minute of the day.

I remember.

LA

Swept,


I have a grand idea.

If you LOVE this OM so much,

then what is holding you from telling your husband?????


If the OM is sooooo wonderful

soooooo great

soooooo perfect for you

Then tell the whole [email]d@mn[/email] world.

Tell his wife, too, while you are at it.



Hmmmm. But you don't want to do that?????


Because you know it is NOT true.

YOU KNOW IT.


Now get your butt in gear, tell your husband that you are actually pining for your marriage to get fixed.


Because you are HERE looking for help to stop this stupid, adulterous behavior. That much tells me you know it is stupid, dangerous

and wrong.

At least you ARE here - you are seeking advice to stop the behavior. I give you credit for that. What I don't credit you for is having the courage to talk to your husband and give him the chance to fix things. Because you are still caught up in the fantasy - and I want you to focus here:

Fantasies are LIES.


The OM is telling you lies. He lies EVERY DAY to his wife. Think about this - YOU are lying EVERY DAY to your husband, so what makes the OM any different from YOU????? He lies, you lie. Why wouldn't he lie to you?????

OM just wants you in the sack, for sex, and NOTHING else. Take that to the bank. He lies to you, he lies to his wife. There is no difference for him, as long as he gets his.



The biggest lie in all of this, and you will soon know this, is that you believe you are in love with the OM. One day you will see the lie in that, and you will be sick over it.

The rest of the lies you need to fix include the lies you are telling your husband.

Fix those tonight. Tell your husband about your affair. Let him start to repair his own heart, that you are working on breaking right now. And let you two get to work on your marriage together.

Because each and every time that you contact the other man, you are working on destruction. Nothing else.

Destruction.


Count on that.

Sweptwrong, I am in a very similar situation. I posted a few nights ago. I've had no contact since friday night, when he told me his wife found out. Its so hard, i know so much how you feel maybe we can stay in contact and help each other be strong.

I've been reading and re-reading the post. The point I think everyone is trying to get across is that there is much more that I can do than I'm doing and I am taking that into consideration. I don't know anyone here but I think what is being said is intended to help. All I can say is that to me right now it seems nearly impossible of a situation to give up. I've taken the time to put it on paper that I'm choosing to be in this situation to help empower myself. And that helps me see this in a different way. Now what do I do? I'm not ready to talk directly to my H about it and quite frankly I am very weak still.

I wanted to also add that the OM told me last night that he has been in relations with other women in his marriage. He mentioned one occurred very recently that had caused some problems with his wife. I guess, that in itself should send up a "red flag" and cause me to steer away. People have already put in the posts that he is probably a womanizer who just want sex. From what he has admitted I'm beginning to think so. Yet I'm attracted to him. No man that I've dated even my husband has touched me emotionally the way he has, but I need help to just drop this. What do I do?

Live up to your vows that you took when you got married. Stay away from people (like OM) who don't know how to live up to their vows.

Confess to your H and let him meet your needs.

Swept and Amy,

You are both addicted to your OM. That's why you feel weak. You are drug addicts, and OM is the drug.

I think "supporting" one another is a bad idea right now, because active addicts only enable one another. Please keep posting and receiving support from those who have previously been in your shoes... we all have empathy, even if our words seem harsh. We speak the truth that you need to hear... please listen to us!!!

I was with FOM for three years. I thought he was my soulmate and love of my life. I thought he was sent from the heavens to be with me. I would have done absolutely anything to be with him. I closed my H off and treated him like dirt, because OM was so "wonderful."

My FOM was a serial cheating, drug addicted narcissist and I knew this the entire time I was with him. It didn't matter though... I was "in love." He told me I was the most beautiful girl in the world and he would die with out me. He persued me relentlessly. I was swept into a horrible, self-serving fantasy world for three years. I lost two of my best friends from childhood because of OM, and stopped spending time with most of my other friends. I ignored my H, and treated him like sh*t. My parents found out and my mom enabled the A but my father wouldn't speak to me. I began smoking cigarettes after being quit for five years and started drinking heavily. I didn't know how to fix the situation and felt hopeless. I thought of suicide on a regular basis.

What helped me was this... telling my H, changing my email and cell phone number (with my H by my side), getting into therapy, MC, posting here, telling OMW, and apologizing to those I hurt when I was active in my A (my family and friends). It was the most freeing, life saving thing I ever did. I'm convinced I would be dead if I didn't confess and do these things.

You are here, which is wonderful. Please listen to us! Swept, I'm wondering why you won't tell your H. Do you think he'll hurt you? Or are you just ashamed, and don't want to hurt him? Tell us the reason why, and maybe we can help you formulate what you're going to say to him. Because believe me, you want to tell him now. Most likely much of the "romantic" feelings you have for OM will disappear once you confess and take action with your H to help you. These feelings are holding you back, but believe me, you can correct this entire situation and get rid of them faster just by telling your H.

Are you ready to do that?

KM

Sweptwrong,
I know it can be hard to read so many opinions strongly expressed against what you are doing, but you are right that they are there to help you. I think every single post here has told you exactly what to do, the only problem is, its not the advice you want to hear. It seems like you are looking for a way in which you don't have to end your friendship/relationship with this OM, but here's the rub. Thats NOT going to be possible. If you want your marriage to succeed you need to commit to making that happen. If you want your marriage to succeed, you cannot be friends with someone who wants it to fail, and YES, the OM wants your marriage to fail. Make no mistake about that.

Its not going to be easy, but like everyone here has said, you need to cut the OM off completely. Tell him that what the two of you are doing is wrong, and that it ends now. You will not take any more of his calls, and if he continues to try and contact you, you will notify his wife.

After that, tell your husband what happened. He will definitely be angry at first, but ultimately he will appreciate the strength it took to end it before it turned physical, and he will KNOW that you CHOSE him and your marriage. Then, sit down and really tell him everything you are feeling about your marriage, and everything you want to change. Maybe even buy the book, His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an Affair.

In the end, it comes down to your decision though. You can act with strength and integrity and do what everyone here is recommending. Or you can act with deceitfulness and cowardice and run to the arms of your OM instead of talking with your husband.

One path will lead you to either a renewal of the love for your husband and commitment to the marriage or a conscience-free divorce.
The other path will lead you to the surefire destruction of two marriages, overwhelming feelings of shame and remorse, and regret that you didn't follow the very good advice you have received in this thread.

This is what you said:


Now being someone who knows how certain men work, this is what your statement should be corrected to read.

"No man that I've dated, even my husband, has MANIPULATED me PSYCHOLOGICALLY the way he has."

OM is a PLAYER, plain and simple, who will MIND-[censored] you into getting sex. When he is done with you he will discard you just like the others he told you about. Then what?

Then you asked:


We've all told you the answer several times, but it's not the one that you want to hear, or it is difficult to carry out. That doesn't preclude it from being the right answer. You should TELL YOUR HUSBAND, WRITE A NC LETTER TO OM and have NC FOR LIFE, and HAVE YOUR HUSBAND CONTACT OMW TO LET HER KNOW THAT HE IS CHEATING ON HER. That's what you should do. It is up to you to actually do it.

[color:"blue"]
This, more than anything else, should convince you that he is not the man that you are fantasizing him to be. He just admitted to lying repeatedly to his wife and to you, yet you still see him as a knight in shining armor. Have you ever heard of the "Occam's Razor"? Paraphrased, it states, "All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the right one". So whats more likely here? That he is a serial cheater and liar, but he is devoted to you? Or that he is simply lying to you and using you as well. [/color]


[color:"blue"]
This also sounds like a classic example of the WS rewriting history. The simple truth is that your husband probably made you feel the exact same way when you were dating, but you are so wrapped up in the fantasy now, you can't view your husband as anything but an ogre with no understanding of the real you. [/color]

Swept, I understand. When OM tells you these things, you feel "special." Wow... he's telling me he cheated before, but has learned so much... I can't believe how honest he is with me. This makes me feel special.

Please read the following letter that was posted a couple of years ago by a fellow MBer. It really struck a chord with me when I was active in my A:


He'll be different with you, you're special.
Author Unknown

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?

Swept... yes we are trying to help. I've been down the road you are considering going down. It might be exciting at first, but that wears off and next is heartbreak and despair.

More than likely, he is a womanizer. He is giving you hints already. After he's used you, your self esteem will only plummet further.

Please think about what we are saying. We want you to be able to look yourself in the mirror every day and be proud of what you see.

Swept,
Jim and Andrew are dead on correct. Read their posts over and over until you understand. If you continue with this creep, you are going to feel like a sl-t. Do what Jim tells you needs to be done and listen to Andrew about what a creep this guy is, because that is what he is-- a creep looking for conquests. You need to figure out why he targeted you. You are vulnerable in some ways and you need to figure out what those vulnerablities are that made him hone in on you.