Capitan:

No it is not an excuse and does not make what she did right.

I do agree with AW in that she may have thought the marriage was over. One thing being married to a military member is that we learn very quickly that we can make it on our own and be ok. We learn to live without though we prefer not to.

I also agree with the resentment. I used to resent my h career how it meant more to him. However it did not begin as resentment. It began as hurt, and missing him so much And as that hurt built up the resentment built up because as a military wife I could not express the hurt, because I had to be strong and support my h in his career. Also had to give the impression to others around us as to how strong of a wife I was. I also agree that my h never shows that anything that he misses with us bothers him. For the first time he is just now voicing his hurt at what he is going to miss this year.

( I've given her full responsibility for all my successes, both privately and publicly.)

However if your wife is anything like me I know that my h successes at work are his, not mine. I did not do the work he did. Yes I supported, however they are not my successes.

I am really not saying that your wife is right at all in any of this. I am saying that until she truly feels that she has your whole heart and that she really is more important to you above anything else,that it leaves her open to someone that may show her that. Not an excuse.

I may be wrong, there are much wiser people here than I. I pray that you recover your marriage.

AW, BJS, Wow...

Thank you for the glimpse inside my WW's head. I understand it all...rationally, and am trying to fully get a grip on what it must feel like. It's a given that it's no excuse, but still, pain is pain, hurt is hurt, and I would have done anything to known about it and made supreme efforts to ensure she felt nothing but love, understanding and sacrifice.

OBTW, my WW WAS so absolutely responsible for my successes in that, ironically, she's shown me how to be more attentive to the people side of the military. Any successes i've had as a leader stem directly from her guidance and counsel. she's an amazing person - with other people...

Thanks MM, bring it on w/ the 2x4s - that's one of the reasons I'm here...

Made "offer" to WW to drop letter tomorrow - she hit the roof! Went on and on about how this will make things difficult - said that I should have consulted her about such things that affect both her and our children...boy did that result in a volley. Perhaps i LB'd, but response pretty much was both barrels...

I pointed out that SHE is unilaterally deciding to end the marriage, that SHE unilaterally decided to have an affair, that SHE unilaterally is leading us down a path of financial hardship, that SHE is unilaterally responsible for our children's ultimately having to deal with the loss, etc., etc.

Wonder how that will play out.

My internet connection is EXTREMELY slow out here so browsing is very difficult...can anyone point me directly to any links here regarding what to do when/if WW files?

MM, re apology...no I don't expect one from her...perhaps not for a long time. It was just an epiphany I had about why her other "I'm sorry's" just didn't sound right. She has yet to take ANY responsibility.

Hey Capitan - sorry, I've been out of pocket for a couple of days on some missions...

So you told your W that you were willing to drop your retirment papers today?

If that is in fact what you did, are you prepared to do it? I ask this question because after reading what some of the wives have to say, and knowing what Mrs. RIF said, I still think that deep down, if your W were NOT involved with this OM, that she would jump up and down for joy if you told her this.

Based on your "broadside volleys" with each other, I'm guessing that her first thoughts are something along the lines of "oh no, now what am I going to do about the OM"...

You are the only one that can decide what is best for you and your family and I know that your career must be considered in all of this... but from where I sit, and from what you've shared with us, IMHO, I think that retiring immediately would be the best thing for your family.

Not an easy decision and one that only you can make. If you talked with your C of C and explained your family issues, do you think that they would consider reassigning you to shore duty? I know that the Army is trying very hard to accomodate families and will usually do what they can for them unless they're on deployment orders for Iraq or Afghanistan...

I don't know where the links are, but I do remember some of the threads saying that if you're deployed, that the courts can't do anything until the deployment ends, not sure how that works for sea duty though...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Yup..

In her reply, she said "You staying in or getting out doesn't change a thing as far as "we" are
concerned. I have been very clear as to what I want on that front... If we were staying married, your getting out would not even be a consideration; it would just be dumb, at this point." Hmmm...FWWs, what do you make of that?

Again, reality of where I am, I would spend as much time away IA if I dropped my letter and

Hi Capitan,

Could it be that she's counting on your retirement money for "after the divorce" and wants you to earn as much as possible?

If she's already gotten this in her head that she's going to divorce, then I'll say it again... I think that you need to let your C of C (or a trusted mentor that's not in yur C of C)know about your family situation and request that you be allowed to retire immediately...

Has your W filed for D yet? If she hasn't, I'll bet that she's just stalling so she can continue with the OM, all the while, you're building up a larger retirement paycheck.

You can't fight effectively for your family as long as you are separated from them.

If they won't let you retire, then you run a risk of "exposing" a weakness to your C of C and they might take you out of your command billet.... so I was wondering if you have a trusted mentor that you can discuss this with? One that isn't in your C of C? It would be good to get a second or even third opinion of your situation.

I don't think that your situation is hopeless, and I don't think that you're heading for a divorce... I think that your W is lonely, she's probably frustrated at "not having a life/career" because she's been supporting your military career, and for the first time, she's "found" someone that makes her feel "special"... She's not thinking in a rational way and all that she can see is "what's in it for her" right now.

You need to be there to help end the A with this OM, and then give her the undivided attention that she most likely craves. Even when you're at home, as long as you're in the military, you are either deployed, or getting ready to deploy... which for our wives, is just as painful and lonely as when we're away.

I personnaly know how I am right before a deployment.. I'm focussed on the upcoming mission! I'm not paying as much attention to Mrs. RIF and my 3 girls...

Over the course of a 20+ year career, I think that our families either get used to it and deal with it in a positive way..., or they get bitter and resentfull.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Poor connection out here...my replies aren't always posted...

Yup, she's "banking" on the money, as am I. She has a point, either way, the money is an issue - ESPECIALLY if we're divorced...damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Reality of situation is if I drop letter, I will still end up spending significant time away...realities of the "global war on terror". The biggest difference is that after that time away, I will be looking for a new job, rather than on shore duty and able to pick up whatever pieces are left. Just getting out not an option.

THose who have been reading my posts are probably noticing that my plan A has been inconsistent, and pretty broken up by the realities of deployment. It makes it tough. My plan is to focus on a concerted plan A over the next period leading up to next at-sea period (6 months or so), then go to plan B - aided by natural separation.

The reality of her situation w/ OM is that he's not so much making her feel "special" anymore, I think he's just become more of a destructive habit... trying to fight off looking too far ahead and come to conclusion that she's not worth the effort... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hey Capitan - That feeling is just a feeling... it will pass. You are in a fight for your M and it's natural to have doubts. Don't dwell on these negative thoughts when the come up... focus on the postitive actions that you're doing and focus on your kids... they are what you are fighing for.

Your W is in the fog now and will say all sorts of mean, hurtful things... don't take them to heart, just keep focusing on your goal here.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks RIF...staying the course. It's just not natural to NOT listen to what your "Life Partner" says and feels...

Hey Capitan - This is hard stuff... but you can do it.

Semper Fi,

RIF

All, sorry for jumping around on different threads...will keep it all on this original thread from now on.

(for details on exposure to kids, go to "just told the kids")

Here's the latest:

After my reassertion of my "right" to sleep in my own bed last week, WW is on a rampage and her emotions are all over the map. She went from "we're filing this week", to "That's it, I've got to get a place of my own where I can go when you're home on the weekends" (background - new job puts me about 2 1/2 hours away and I'll be able to be home on weekends and perhaps a night mid-week).

Is this a move firmly into the conflict stage from withdrawl? Perhaps...

WW agreed to see family counselor, primarily in order to get the kids whatever support THEY need to get through these "changes". Appt is next week.

I had a "debrief" with our former MC and told her that in retrospect I thought it wasn't "marriage" counseling - she wholeheartedly agreed. I told her that WW couldn't possibly engage in any kind of recovery while still in contact - she agreed. In looking back, it's clear that she helped ME, but until and unless WW broke contact - which WW was NOT interested in doing at the time, there was no "marriage" in that counseling. I can have no idea waht WW told MC or MC said to WW in IC, so who knows...

Which brings up an interesting philosophical point - you can't "force" someone to "try"... However, I told WW that I find it interesting how she insisted she "tried" for so long. I asked for details and she fails to provide them. I then ask why it is she can give me chapter and verse of any transgression of mine over the last 10 years and she can do so w/ uncanny accuracy. How is it that the details of her "trying" to save our marriage elude her?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> She's put more "effort" into destroying the marriage than saving it.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Trying to stay the course...I can't help but feel like the "bad guy" for kicking her out of "her" bedroom. Can you believe it??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, she left the house for the weekend, and based on how dejected and lost she looked, I got the distinct impression she's NOT with OM, and I even get the impression that it's not even an option...hmmmmmmm - trouble in paradise? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

She hit me with an extremely strong plea/threat to NOT tell her family, and I can't say I don't disagree at this point. Background - mother-alcoholic, father-passed away, uncles-not particularly close, brother-overseas and not particularly close. I'm under the impression that the reason to expose is to do so to people who are in a position to either support or help. Exposing to her somewhat dysfunctional family will ultimately do more harm than good, for either her, me or the marriage.

She told me something I didn't know...when she was leaving her first husband, who was physically abusive, her family basically told her that it was HER fault, and that she should just go back to him... Holy S#it! How's that for being supportive?! Armed with that info I had the epiphany that she's probably not calling the friends I've told because she'd be treating their "judgment" of her in the same way, that they'd be trying to tell her to go back to her "abusive" husband - me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> not something she'd be particularly open to...

Just to clear the air, NO, I was NEVER, in ANY WAY physically abusive, but she claims "emotional abuse"...something that is in the eye of the beholder - she believes it to be true, therefore it is... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Our friends have seen both sides of our "loving dynamic" over the years, and I'm under no delusion that I was not a jerk at times...it's a ****** not being "perfect"...oh, to be able to know then what I know now...

Anyway, looking on the bright spot of this last week - kids SO MUCH MORE at ease and clear now. They are EMPOWERED, and as much as anyone in this situation can be, in CONTROL. They are wonderful and my heart bleeds to think that WW is endangering HER relationship with them in this way. I told her that she deserves the respect she will get from them by admitting that what she's doing is wrong, rather than stonewalling and justification...

God it is so hard to keep my anger at WW at bay...I understand now, more than ever, why Dr Harley suggests time limit to Plan A...

Capitan out...

Hey Capitan!

Thanks for the update... It is very frustrating. Mrs. RIF accused me of being "controlling" and "mentally abusive" during or very first MC session and said that was the "reason" that she had all of her A's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like your W is still fogged out and is willing to do what ever she can to "escape" facing the facts that she's gotten in such a mess.

Stay strong and be the ligh-house for her and guide her back to the M. She's going to say all sorts of mean, nasty, hurtfull things before it's all said and done. Remember, she's in 'survival' mode and is trying to 'protect' the good feelings that she got from the A.

I agree with you about considering her family dynamics before you expose... others may dissagree, but if her family can't provide help and support in ending contact, then it's probably best if you don't expose to them.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Re-reading SAA for first time in over a year... there's so much I didn't get the first time around...now that my own BS fog has parted.

Biggest "ah ha" moment came as I realized I'd still fallen prey to her "alternate reality", and how I've still felt compelled to "make sense" of her reactions/statements/decisions, etc. The story of Jon, Sue and Greg has SO many parallels it's scary.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I can see that one of my biggest failings in my "plan A" was my lack of patience. I need to let time work on my side. Make a move, make some Love Bank deposits - wait! Rather than do what I've been doing, and that's pretty much everything at once and expect immediate results... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Had a long talk w/ one of my sisters. She'd gone through a similar situation w/ the man she'd been living w/ for 10 years. We talked about coping techniques. Every morning when she woke up, her wayward sig other dove in w/ "reasons" why everything was her fault and she had been thrown into incredible self doubt whenever she was living in "his" reality. She went and swam lap after lap in the local pool and was able to find peace. I might try to do same - something, anything to try to give me an island of peace and tranquility in this s#itstorm.

I think today will be a nice day. WS will be "coming home" from her "time away" which was spent in a nearby hotel, not OM's place, or his mom's... She misses kids...just like "Sue" in SAA...

Diving back into chapter 5...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey Capitan,



BINGO! This was VERY hard for me when Mrs. RIF and I started rebuilding... I'm used to giving orders and having them carried out to the letter immediately! Must be something about being in the military... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think you're tracking very well here... keep reading and let us know if you have any specific questions that we can help you with.

Semper Fi,

RIF

bump with new thread name and poll at bottom...

Hi Capitan

I'm sorry to see your situation. Great that you have RIF, Mortarman and Aussieswife helping you though. Talk about "been there, done that" !

I can't add much to their great advice regarding marrigebuilding while deployed - I can hardly imagine what that must be like - but I can perhaps share some experience with you regarding "plan A".

You said


This is very wise. See, i worked out that WS deliberately obscure their point of focus in their emotional and intellectual vision, but their PERIPHERAL vision is uncorrupted.

"what ya mean Bob?"

Well, in order to drown out ther screaming conscience, WS can rewrite history in a way that "justifies" their affair based on the totally miserable time their BS caused them every moment of their previous marriage. :rolleyes

So they apply a deliberate "filter" in their perception that sets severything regarding the BS, the marriage and their actions in the context of this re-written history.

You do a nice thing for her, you're sucking up, its too little too late, you won't keep it up etc.
You mention a great experience from your married life, she yells "yeah well that was one of the few times you were HERE", recalls she ate a bad egg and went toilet for three hours or trod in some dog poop in new shoes as you saw the Grand Canyon.... Whatever.

You get my drift.

So when you try to PLAN A in her face very intensively, almost nothing get sthrough the "history rewrite" filter.

how-ev-er...

* If you PERSISTENTLY and quietly invest in her and your marriage
* Meet ENs without fuss
* Take responsibility for stuff in your marriage you could have done better without making a big deal of it
* set and police personal boundaries without making them demands
* studiously avoid lovebusters, and dodge fog babble

A strange thing happens....it creates a CULTURE of non judgmentalism, love and investment that sneaks past the filter. Her heart starts to trust your efforts even though he rmind , obscured by her filter, may not yet.

I know this from my own situation, and from many others I have seen via these boards.

You make these behaviours a default part of your personality, not "gestures". You adhere to them whether your Ws response is positive or negative. YOU JUST do IT BECAUSE ITS you - the YOU she'd be throwing away if she divorced you.

See ?

I ma not sure howmuch time you ar eable to spend online or with your WW right now, Capitan, but in the time you DO have, do this.

Lock up your taker - it won't get any sugar for a while yet, so lock it up or distract it
Stow your indignation
Practice loving detachment when she does hurtful things

And see how it goes. If theres no great change in your WW after four months of a GOOD plan A there is unlikely to be, so planB is then in order.

Oh, and EXPOSE. Find somebody in OMs and your WWs life whose opinion of them they value and expose to them. They'll be mad, but theres nothing like Mom turning on the light to stop a game of doctors and nurses <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All blessings !

And in case it helps, heres a link to a bunch of stuff I bundled to help folks - it includes a description of loving detachment

Click here for toolkit

Sage advice Bob...



Again, more of the same...

My situation a little unsettled right now, but charting a steady course imperitive...it takes a firm hand on the helm, and I've been finding myself searching erratically for "better winds" rather than sticking to one plan.

Yours, and others calm and firm guidance is a godsend - thanks.

Might be shifting to a plan B in the near future. Our MC/IC has just read SAA (I gave it to them as "homework" - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) and we agree (in IC) that my plan A pretty much sucked... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

More later, but thanks Bob... BTW, I was born in your fair country... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />