I am so confised right now I'm almost numb. My marriage has been a roomate situation for about four years now. We don't sleep in the same room, we are friends and try to maintain the house together, we have one young child at home still (the others are grown) and personally I realized that I truly am lonely. I didn't even give it a second thought. I had my friends, was raising my youngest, and didn't think about what I was mising because I had no reason to. I figured i didn't need it anymore. Our marriage is dead. My husband has made many mistakes over the past few years and he's admitted it. He had also admitted that he may not be able to change or give me what I need. Staying with someone doesn't mean you love them. It means you're stuck. I don't know how we could live separately and afford it. I don't love him anymore but I do care about him as a human being. I have no respect for him nor do I trust him at all. He has never "cheated" on me with anyone. But he's an emotionless black hole. Too passive and unfeeling. He wants the codependance of the relationship (maid service, cook, someone to talk to) but in the capacity of a friendship. We have no physical relationship and haven't in about four years. He doesn't understand that I cannot sleep with him when I don't have tust in him or respect him. The last time we were together I tried just for the sake of trying. I ended up crying and almost throwing up. I felt like a hooker. I think when a woman makes themselves vulnerable to a man they need to trust and repect that man and I don't and he knows it. He says he can't change that.

The reason now that all of a sudden i feel lonely and discontented is because for the first time in years I came across a man I have been friends with throughout the years. I haven't seen him or his family for awhile and now we've been talking and having friendly conversations. But I didn't realize that I was becoming attracted to him which in itself isn't a bad thing. I do not intend to pursue anything nor do I intend to allow my feelings to put me in a position that would harm this friendship or my integrity.(and I haven't told this male friend, he is a good guy and I care about this friendship) But it has made me realize that I really [color:"blue"]do[/color] want that type of relationship. I thought I didn't anymore. I thought I've had my kids, I don't have visions of a white dress and a church wedding. So that part of my life is done. But now I think of how wonderful a loving, close relationship could be with someone who treats me with love, respect and integrity. I feel a real empty hurt inside because I do want that closeness and relationship with someone that I'm in love with.

My husband is a 'nice' guy. We're 'friends'. But I'm a devout Christian along with our kids. He is a Christian but not so devout. He doesn't read his Bible, he attends church only because I do with the kids, he would never insist on going if he could sleep in Sunday mornings and as for a spiritual head of our house...that would be me.
I am trying to put out of my mind the thought of divorce. I have considered separation. Maybe this would get him to move and do something. Counseling, or even make the changes necessary. I think it may be too late but I thought I'd see if anyone else has ever been in this position. I'm not happy, the emotional stress isn't too bad but it would be so much better to be at peace with whatever happens. I'd appreciate any opinions or views and I thank you all ahead of time.

LandM,

I hope you have read the articles on this site. I strongly recommend that you do. I would encourage you to focus on several areas. One is the topic of Harley's four rules for a good marriage. It is clear neither of you are following these. Next, I would encourage you to read about the polices of "radical honesty" and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. Next read about needs and consider taking the needs quetionaire with your H.

If you two are friends and have been lovers, then it can be this way again. I am only guessing but I would guess over the years your main focus has been the kids and not your H. My guess is that your H has focused on his job. You both have made mistakes and failed one another. You are failing him now with your friendship with this other man.

If you want things to change, then then YOU need to make changes in how you treat your H, in how you interact with him and with your lack of honesty. I suspect that last part of this comment has you just a bit ticked at me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But, the reality is YOU should be telling your H all of the things you have posted here and more. Not in an accusing manner but in a manner that seeks change and improvement in the marriage. My bet is that he is not real happy with the marriage either. If you expressed that you don't care for the marriage as it is, and that you would like a husband that you can talk to, laugh with, make love to, and generally enjoy, he might agree and state the same.

The information in this site will allow you to make changes that will change this marriage and as you do, the information allows you to make plans with your H that will rebuild this marriage.

I don't think all is lost, I think you two have just lost your way for awhile. Time for changes and this does not mean changing husbands.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I have told him all of that. I get a shoulder shrug or an "it's in the past". There is so much damage that he has caused. He admitted my feelings are a direct result of the things he's done. I have tried going through the motions and pretending. I have a hard time living a lie. I cook for him, ask him how his day was, try my best to be considerate etc...

I have read many of the things on the website here. It takes TWO people to make something work. Marriage counseling has been brought up. He says 'sure I'll do it' but has never followed through. I guess I'm hurt because he has NEVER put my needs first although I have put his first as well as our kids. Even when I get sick he blows it off. He won't help around our home when I do get sick. Or he tries to make the kids do it and our kids have said 'how come Dad always makes us do it but he doesn't do anything himself?' My husband is setting a poor example to our kids and by me just trying to give him what he needs and treating him with compassion and patience when he's sick shows an example of a very unbalanced relationship. I don't want my kids thinking that this is acceptable for them. My husband works a typical work day 5 days a week. He makes sure his needs are met. We all come second. I manage to get the kids and I the things we need like food and clothes. But not before I have to push to get any money from him or constantly repeating to him that the bills are late. He doesn't give me access to any money. He gets payed and keeps his entire paycheck with him at all times. The excuse is 'well I might have to stop at a store on my way home" or 'since I have the car I'd be the one to go shopping anyway'. It's definitely a control issue. He needs to be in control of everything. Even things that don't matter. His choices in circumstances have created outcomes like:

1. I no longer have a car.

2. I have no way to get anywhere.

3. If I decide to spend the day with a friend he would call several times on my cell phone claiming the need to just say hi.

4. I was in perfect health a few years ago. Now I need a dentist really bad and he says well call around and maybe someone will let us make small payments. No one will. But if he has anything he needs from a doctor or dentist his mother will give it to him so he can get better. Me? We're told to start saving some money so I can get any health needs met. So of course my needs are not met and I continue to get worse, my mouth is falling apart and I used to have perfect teeth.

5. Since I'm pretty much 'trapped' in our home during the week I love to get out for a bit on weekends. He will take me out if I press him to do so. That usually involves shopping, running errands or doing things for the kids. I would love to take a drive somewhere, go to the park or even eating out. They are either too expensive, the gas costs too much, he doesn't want to drive far (although he loves to drive) or if we do go he complains most of the time which sucks any enjoyment I may get from my once a week "outing'.

6. We go to church on Sundays. Then after church we visit his mother. ALL day long until it's time to go home. She has even encouraged us to leave the kids and go 'do something'. He won't, or he's tired or he hasn't the money to go driving around.

I used to be a bookkeeper. Early on in our marriage I took care of the finances. I payed the bills, shopped and took care of all our needs. He just handed me the paycheck. We were never in debt, never late with rent and always had what we needed.

Even though he ADMITTED this he said he didn't like the arrangement because he didn't have any money to spend on himself to get a cd, lunch at work or anything he might see in a store. Before he let me handle the finances we were late with rent, months behind on utilities and in debt. He even aknowledged that I did a great job but he wanted to be able to do what he wanted with his money. He felt too 'constricted'. There was never any money left over after paying what needed to be payed. But now we are again in debt, no health insurance, behind in rent and utilities. The kids have nice things because I make sure they do by whatever means necessary. I buy clothes very inexpensively, trade with other moms and even sell with a friend on ebay to raise extra money.

I have tried to be the 'good Christian wife'. Turning the other cheek, blowing off my own feelings because when I would gently 'share' my feelings he had no reaction or I'd get an 'I'm sorry'. No change in behavior.

The few times I was so hurt and angry and he KNEW it he tried to buy my forgiveness and would get me something that I never even asked for. THAT'S how he apologizes. I told him I don't want any stuff I just want you to be willing to change. I have changed as much as possible and even asked him what does he want me to do? He replies nothing.

So this is where I stand. I'm very lonely, I adore my kids but they are on their own except for our youngest. The kids notice the way our relationship is and my oldest has even said if you want to leave you can stay with me.

So this is the situation at the moment. I do care for him as I would any friend. But I am not treated as a wife should be. A husband should be willing to stand up for his wife, do whatever it takes to ensure her health and safety and not expect her to put her happiness on a back burner. I feel at this point he is just co-dependant on me to be his maid or if he's bored I'm someone to talk to. And he also doesn't want to look bad in his family.

Being married doesn't mean my life is supposed to stop. I have a right to be happy, content and healthy. I can have friends. I have no problem with him hanging out with HIS friends whenever he chooses. I don't call him incessantly when he is with them. He's not 10 years old he's an adult and I treat him as one.

Okay sorry for the long winded post. I guess I just needed to get that off of my chest. I [color:"blue"]do[/color] appreciate your input, thank you for answering. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L&M,

Sorry I could not help you. I hope you can come up with a plan to make your life better. Having an affair emotional or physical is NOT the way to do it.

God Bless,

JL

I know. I think I may attend marriage counseling alone even if he doesn't want to attend with me.

My relationship has similar issues to yours. Change a few things and I'd ask if you were my wife.

I strongly suggest reading HNHN and LB (I just started this one) and everything you can on this site. Take the ENQ for you and for him if he's not willing at this point. You probably have a good idea of what his needs are and be honest about how well you are meeting those needs from his perspective.


I can't agree with you more. It's has taken a separation for me to understand just how much I wasn't giving her. And even what she wasn't giving me. Reading and taking the ENQ will likely show you that neither one of you is meeting the others needs. Understanding this is the first step to working together to understand what those needs are and how you want/need them to be met. Sit him down and show him how you are not meeting his needs and how he's not meeting yours. If you show him that you know you are not meeting his needs he'll be more likely to listen to you.

I'm no expert so I'm only giving advice based on what I think may have worked with me. If that doesn't work, PM me and have him talk to me about the pain he's about to feel. I wish you all the luck in the world!

SISOSIG,

sounds like a lot of hurt, loneliness and history there. Some men just want a mother, not a marriage nor the company of equals and a life shared. It's a pity.

Is this the man you want to be with for the rest of your life?

If so, what would it take to get him to change his behavior? Does he even want to do what it takes to salvage your M?

You cannot do this alone.

As others have said, a PA/EA is never the answer. I strongly urge you to seek IC, if not MC. Not all marriages can or should be saved. I suspect you are not at a place where you can rationally make that decision.

Good luck.

Thank you! I have definitely been doing alot of reading on this site! I have tried to see any needs that I wasn't meeting for him. I even asked him and he said no you're fine. That wa sit. I was FINE? I asked him why did he make the decisons he has and even though he admits I got hurt with things that happened as a direct result of choices he's made he says there's nothing he can do about them to change them. I agreed. But his behavior that caused all of it is still the same which means more pain for me down the road. I asked him if he understood that and he said yes. And then he said my intent isn't to hurt you or have you get sick or be unhappy. But there's nothing I can do to change who I am.

Then if he feels bad enough he'll try to buy me off perhaps so I'll not bother him about things he cannot change. I told him I don't want things. I want changes. He said he can't guarantee that. He's very passive to the point of blowing things off and procrastinating. It's like a little boy who shuts his eyes so he won't have to think about or watch something that makes him uncomfortable.

I know a separation can wake someone up from their chosen emotional/mental stupor and sometimes it makes them willing to do something. Sink or swim maybe? Thank you for a man's point of view! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SISOSIG,

sounds like a lot of hurt, loneliness and history there. Some men just want a mother, not a marriage nor the company of equals and a life shared. It's a pity.

[color:"blue"] I cannot tell you how many people have said this to me. Even at the beginning of our marriage!
[/color]

Is this the man you want to be with for the rest of your life?

[color:"blue"] We've been together over a decade and a half. And more than half has been painful. I'm a Christian and don't believe in divorce except for extreme measures. But I have a feeling it's getting there. It's like I'm single and so is he I'm just a live in housekeeper and friend who he can talk to once in a while. This is not my vision of marriage. He is extremely close to his mother and it has caused issues through the years. Sometimes he takes her opinion over mine and is co-dependant on her. If he's short money she's there to give it to him. If he has a need like a dentist or some other health thing she'll make sure he has the money. As for me she wouldn't give money for me to go to the dentist. She tells my husband you'd better start saving. So I pretty much take a back seat to his needs and yet I always tried to put his needs first. He has gotten better since the first years of our marriage. His mom was extremely mean to me and he would do nothing. He would tell me well it doesn't matter what she thinks but what I think. He did tell her to please stop and of course she thought I made him say that. But at least she's nice to me now and I'm sure the kids have alot to do with that. But I'm still pretty young and our two oldest are grown. (college) Our youngest is still in elementary school but we are really close because all of my time is spent with our youngest. My husband works, comes home eats, watches a little tv and goes to bed early. On weekends he may hang out with friends and every Sunday after church we go and visit his mother. EVERY Sunday unless I say I want to take our youngest to the shore or I need to run errands today. If we weren't married he'd be seeing his mother on Sundays and not go to church.I remember one time he was doing some work for his mom at her house and she fed him dinner. He never called and I had dinner waiting and waiting. He showed up around nine o'clock at night and when I asked him where he was all that time he said at my mom's. I already ate. I was like..."whaaat?". He said oh I didn't think about you making dinner. Sorry. And that was the end of it.[/color]

If so, what would it take to get him to change his behavior? Does he even want to do what it takes to salvage your M?

[color:"blue"] He claims he does but then puts all the responsibility on ME to do something. He said our church has counseling. Go call them. So I did and told him what times they had available. He said well that doesn't work for me. Maybe you can just fiind a book or something. (which means forget it. He hates to read and every book I've given him that contains things he's even INTERESTED in he reads a few chapters and never picks it up again)[/color]

You cannot do this alone.

[color:"blue"] But I am. That's the problem. And at this point any wanting to save this sham of a marriage is gone. Any romantic feelings are gone. I want to have a friendship with him because of the kids. But if I stay, will the resentment grow and a friendship won't even be a possibility?[/color]

As others have said, a PA/EA is never the answer. I strongly urge you to seek IC, if not MC. Not all marriages can or should be saved. I suspect you are not at a place where you can rationally make that decision.

[color:"blue"] Don't know what a P/A or E/A is but I suspect you mean an affair and I'm not like that. My loyalty to God is stronger than that. I have alot of good friends male and female. My male friends tell me this shouldn't be this way. That if someone loves you they make no bones about it. They don't treat you like scenery or as someone who's a convenience like a gardner, maid or 2nd fiddle. That's not love it's possession or an aquaintance.

My female friends think it's control/abuse. The fact that I've become isolated and dependant on him ensures that I can't leave. No car, no license and I need health care. (dental) My basic needs have been negelected. This from an independant, strong woman who had many friends, a great job and was healthy. Stress is bad for the health. And so is loneliness.[/color]

Good luck.


[color:"blue"] Thank you for your opinion. It is greatly appreciated! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

I'm sorry to hear you need dental and your H is like that. But even when you make money and you have a dental plan like myself, H can be real loosers! my H gave me a dirty look as I need a filling and 2 caps. Insurances pays 1,000 and Our expense is 1,644.00 But I earn more money than my H and now because he was a D*ck about it, I am seperating our money. My money, his money. I earn 40% more. Now when he needs something, guess what..he better have enough in "HIS" account as he is only getting a dirty look from me and not a penny more.

Perhaps tell your H your going to try and get some social services with your state and see if he can't cough up some coin. Or your going to the church or something for help. Or even tell that to your H mother might get the coin in your hand.

It's not like my H wants me to have poor dental health or other issues. But "he couldn't do anyting" or "I should have been more careful". <rolling eyes>

I am going to our church to see if they have anyway to help me. We've been denied by the state. It's very hard to get state help because they purposely make it difficult. They claimed they sent us a denial letter because they didn't have information about our car which we have given them twice.

So I'm hoping our church can help. They've been great so far to us. When I was working and also making more money I handed my paycheck over to my husband. He wouldn't even put my name on the bank account! He said he would just pay all the bills. But he didn't and still doesn't. We were always behind on rent and utilities but he made sure to enlarge his cd collection. I have worked in bookkeeping and AP. Before we were married I never had debt, was always on time with my bills and had good credit. He let me handle the finances for a short time and I actually began to clean up our credit and debt. But he said he didn't like not having any money for him to spend on himself. Like a cd or lunch at work. I told him luxuries come last. (I never bought anything for myself either) He said he didn't like the arrangement so he took back control of the fianances and again we are behind in everything but who cares as long as he has control right?

I'm not working at the moment so it makes things much worse because I am dependant on him and his income. He waits until we're out of almost everything and I tell him what am I going to eat today? He says well hold on until I'm done with work and I'll pick some stuff up at the store. So I'd go all day with nothing to eat. I'd drink lots of water all day but a forced fast isn't fair. He by the way will eat at work. He cashes his paycheck and keeps it with him all the time (in case he needs to pay a bill or pick up somehing from the grocery store.) At this point it's a control issue that is completely out of hand and I'm suffering for it. If you treated kids this way people would be screaming neglect. And the kids are fine they're treated better than I am. They've never gone without even for a minute. (I'm also on a special diet because of a wheat allergy)

I am no longer willing to be a doormat. I will not tolerate being the "long suffering wife" when it gets me nowhere. I continue to pray for him, try and meet his needs, ask him if there's anything I can do and this is just sending him the false message that everything's fine and dandy.

So I'm working as you say to become financially independant. I'm going to work with a friend part-time, keep MY money and begin to take care of MY health. I think once I accomplish THAT I will seek a separation and see if that wakes him up to go get some counseling. Or if he still remains the same passive person who blows off whatever happens I will leave. It takes TWO people to make a marriage work. And children should NOT be witnessing something so unhealthy. They need to learn by example how relationships can be healthy and nuturing. I don't want them emulating my dysfunctional relationship in their future ones.

Thank you for your input!! I really appreciate hearing from other people. There are many out there right now that would make me feel guilty and tell me to stick it out but they're not living with this day-to-day. And I'm not willing to let my health decline to prove a point. That I should stay just because.

Thanks again!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L&M,

in addition to counseling, I recommend you have a consultation with an attorney so you know what your rights are should you ultimately decide to D or S. The last thing you want to do is stay in an emotionally abusive relationship out of fear. Get the knowledge. You will be suprised how many rights you have.

This isn't giving up on the marriage. It's being prepared.

Remember, the less you know, the more certain you can be. Think about that.

Wow. I hadn;t even thought about that. I'v been told that passive-aggressiveness is a form of emotional abuse. I have a friend who's an attorney. Maybe I should ask her where I stand just to be prepared in any situation. Thank you very much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />