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_Larry_ #1935650 09/06/07 10:27 PM
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I have sent a message with the copied email to my BIL so that he can see what his W is up to.

Maybe/hopefully this will start a whole new war, and will split up the team. It will make my WW and her sisters and Mom even closer, but there will be crap flying from every direction.

Who knows... maybe my next step is to let the cat out of the bag to WW's older sister that she is in fact only a half sister... another big secret that I have been encouraging WW and her Mom to tell the truth about for a while. I felt it wasn't my place to speak on this one, but while I'm opening up everything... why not this one?

I'll wait on that for a bit, though.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935651 09/06/07 10:32 PM
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Who knows... maybe my next step is to let the cat out of the bag to WW's older sister that she is in fact only a half sister... another big secret that I have been encouraging WW and her Mom to tell the truth about for a while. I felt it wasn't my place to speak on this one, but while I'm opening up everything... why not this one?

My grandma told me a truth. She said that I needed to take a close look at a female's mama before I married said female. She also said take a look at the family to see if I had the stomach to deal with them on a daily basis. Then she said since most men are dumb as fence posts when it came to women, let her figure it out and tell me. Wish I had listened better to Grandma.

Larry

_Larry_ #1935652 09/06/07 10:39 PM
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Larry, you are so right.

With the counsellors I've talked to... who know WW's family and history, they recognize that this is a huge part of the problem. My W did not get a morale basis... and is still being encouraged in the wrong way.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935653 09/06/07 10:40 PM
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Anyone have any suggestions for my next move.

The lawyer didn't call tonight... I have another time slot for him to call me on Saturday morning... through an EAP at work.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935654 09/07/07 01:58 AM
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I'm already a little concerned about this part of the plan.


Shaden,

If that means you're having any second thoughts about your decision to tell your sons, I just want to say that I believe you did the right thing... and that you are handling it with tremendous grace. Of course they will be torn, and will want to believe the best about their mom. They love her. But they deserve to know what is really happening in their lives. And they will eventually be able to see it for themselves. Whatever happens now with your marriage, just please know that you did right by your sons. Keep telling them the truth, and tell they WHY you're telling them.

As for your wife's family and all their secrets... personally, I'd concentrate on my own situation for now. JMO.

--SC


"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
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Everything was pretty quiet last night. WW was online in the evening, but couldn't see any messages going back and forth. I think she has switched to another way to communicate. I think she knows I was tapping in. But she hasn't changed passwords. Probably just on the phone.

It is also possible that the guilt with the kids has caused her to stop for a night or two... but I know the addiction will be enough for her to go back.

I didn't hear if BIL got his message yet.

I also hope that wasn't a mistake... putting the family in jeopardy from his temper. He has not been out of control to this point that I know of in the past... the hitting was once each time...and I think once was a retaliation from her hit... but these things can escalate quickly.

Smartcookie... thanks for the encouragement. Probably my WW sees that she is just having harmless talk... nothing has happened... so she can tell the boys I am mistaken. If so, she hasn't learned a thing.

I just didn't want to draw the boys into this messy business. I told WW all along that wouldn't happen. But I do see the necessity of it... just don't like it. But I like what she is doing even less.

I was reading again from Dr. Dobson's book "Tough Love" last night. It did say to not involve the kids... but that is only one opinion. Most of the rest of his ideas, though, seem to be excellent.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935656 09/07/07 06:54 AM
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I just didn't want to draw the boys into this messy business. I told WW all along that wouldn't happen. But I do see the necessity of it... just don't like it. But I like what she is doing even less.
I was reading again from Dr. Dobson's book "Tough Love" last night. It did say to not involve the kids... but that is only one opinion. Most of the rest of his ideas, though, seem to be excellent.

Not to belabor the point, but...

I don't think you're "drawing them in". They're already "involved" because they're part of the family.

If you and your wife had reconciled, I would have supported your decision not to tell your kids about her past affair. If you and your wife were unable to recover, but had split-up for reasons other than her affair, I'd say the same thing.

But your boys' lives are being directly affected by your wife's past and current "activites" with other men. At some point, they would have seen what is happening with this new guy. And eventually, they would either figure out what's been going on... and be angry with you for not telling them. Or, they would go through life wondering what the heck happened... and mistrusting their own instincts and judgement.

All that said, I do think it can be a fine line between simply revealing the truth... and involving the kids in an unhealthy way. "using them" if you will. From what I've read of your posts, I trust that you will continue to do what's best for them, and not cross that line.

Again, BRAVO!

--SC


"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
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All that said, I do think it can be a fine line between simply revealing the truth... and involving the kids in an unhealthy way. "using them" if you will. From what I've read of your posts, I trust that you will continue to do what's best for them, and not cross that line.

I agree very much with Smartcookie, you aren't getting the kids involved any more than they already were involved. they need to know what is going on in their lives so they can protect themselves. On the other hand, using them to get back or putting them in the middle would be bad for them.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have the boys tonight... we went to see Mr. Bean. Not my first choice, but it had a few funny moments... what a dancer.

This morning, I had an email from older son. He said he was so glad it was Friday because he was coming over to my place tonight... he couldn't wait. It made my day.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935659 09/07/07 11:23 PM
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SC... thanks... and you are right... I won't cross the line. Some would think I already have.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935660 09/08/07 01:29 AM
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A couple of tidbits of info.

In my email to my son this morning, I made the Plan B mistake (although I haven't finalized Plan B yet) of telling him to give his Mom a hug from me... but not to tell her it was from me. He did... and he told her. She gave him a hug back for me.

He also said that she was trying to delete facebook from her computer. I have noticed that there has been no activity for the past couple of nights on it.

Don't worry, everyone... I don't need 2x4s. I am well aware that neither of these things mean anything. They are both probably meant to make my son feel better.

My younger son tried to call WW tonight at 1:00 in the morning (I know... delinquent Dad having them up that late). The phone was busy. Either talking to her sister because sh!! hit the fan after my email to BIL. or talking to OM. I think the boys might have thought that it was OM but didn't say it. I only said that it could be one of 3 people... they said "Nanny", Auntie, and who's the third...I didn't answer... then they said their other auntie. I left it at that, but knew it wasn't her at that time. OM was the 3rd guess. My son tried several times to call to say goodnight. They finally said that she probably left the phone off the hook. I left it at that... didn't encourage any thoughts. It is not unusual for her to be on the phone with her sister or Mom at that time. But more than likely, she has the freedom tonight to talk to OM with the kids here.

I saw that BIL was online tonight... I sent him a quick email asking if he got my other email. He didn't and hasn't responded. Don't know what that means... but it isn't my concern anymore. Like I said, if that backfires on me, it really can't get much worse for me anyway.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935661 09/08/07 02:55 AM
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You can be loving right up till you drop the plan B hammer Shaden. No 2x4's from me.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Shaden, what is your timing on Plan B? Do you have a date that you intend on going dark? I agree with Dave that you can communicate all you want until the moment you send the letter.

Are you familiar with all the details of Plan B? Such as getting your finances in order, setting up a visitation calendar, designating an intermediary, etc?

Are you familiar with how a Plan B letter should be laid out? Here is one that I really like: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I am working on the finances now, and will be talking to a lawyer this weekend to get advice on custody, separation agreement, etc..

I have started working on a calendar and a Plan B letter... but your link helps a lot.

I'm not sure about who to use as an intermediary yet as her family is all so blind.

I have read up on plan B on here.

I haven't set a time yet to complete all of this and give it to her. I will have a very busy time at work the next week, so I'll be kinda of dark during that time anyway.

I noticed this morning that she had been on facebook... just read her incoming. No new outgoing, but she could have deleted. She was on at 5:00 AM and her status was changed to "I wish I were sleeping". So she is having some trouble... or she was on the phone with OM for a long time.

Still no word about BIL... I'm sure I made things worse for all of us in that regard, but in the end it won't matter.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935664 09/08/07 08:16 AM
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Shaden, the ideal intermediary would be someone you both know and trust and who would remain neutral. If you can't think of someone [and sometimes there just IS no one] maybe one of your friends here would suffice? Some of us have done this before in a pinch and it worked out ok as long as we just represented ourselves as a neutral party. Just something to think about..


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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there is a friend that I might be able to ask. I hate getting them involved, but I did expose to her yesterday. She is the mother of my sons best friend and used to work with my WW. I coached my son's baseball team with her husband. She said she is neutral and would probably help.

I'll think some more, but this is probably the best route. I just know that she is going through her own difficulties with her daughter and hate to lay more on her... but that is a part of life... growing as we deal with challenges.

thanks for the ideas ML.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935666 09/08/07 08:29 AM
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Shaden, all she would have to do is act as a SPAM FILTER for you and pass on pertinent information. For example:

acceptable: WW needs to change visitation this week from Tuesday to Wednesday

not acceptable: your silence is childish and immature!

not acceptable: send Johnny's superman underwear when he comes to visit me

She would screen out the junk and only send you messages - in her words - that you must have.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Unless I can think of someone better, I will talk to her. She is probably the most neutral person... she is a much stronger friend with my WW... but she has respect for me and her main interest is in her son and our boys.

When I've finished a plan B letter, I'll also post on here. Not sure when that will be... but soon.


Is there anything else... I'll check off my todo list...

- discuss with lawyer to ensure I protect myself financially and for custody.
- make any necessary changes to ensure finances are in order.
- create a visitation calendar... or some method that will work.
- choose an intermediary.
- write a Plan B letter and post it here for review.
- Have a clear list of boundaries that will protect me and my sons for the future. Have an clear understanding of what and only what I will accept before reconciliation.
- write another letter telling her how much I miss her and wish she was here with me...that I would die without her (Just kidding)
- enjoy life. enjoy time with my sons. continue to work on me.
- have unbreakable and confident faith.

Have I left out any important details?

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935668 09/08/07 08:42 AM
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... should I add in a formal separation agreement?

how about Mr. W's idea of moving into "my" condo since I signed for the property as well.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935669 09/08/07 08:59 AM
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- write a Plan B letter and post it here for review.
- Have a clear list of boundaries that will protect me and my sons for the future. Have an clear understanding of what and only what I will accept before reconciliation.
- write another letter telling her how much I miss her and wish she was here with me...that I would die without her (Just kidding)

All of that would go into the Plan B letter. It should be a love letter telling her

- you are sorry for your part in the state of the marriage

- that you are ending contact with her

- that in order to resume contact, she must end her pursuit of adultery and demonstrate a willingness and committment to CARE for you as a husband

In it, tell her that all PERTINENT contact is to be channeled through XXXXX [your designated intermediary] unless an emergency. In it, specify that the children are not to be exposed to any of her paramours.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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