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Shaden #1935710 09/12/07 12:50 AM
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Quote:

After she was denying everything and telling me I had misread everything and I was wrecking any chance we had being friends.




I sure hope being friends and having an amicable divorce isn't your goal here Shaden.

You should be trying to tear her throat out legally through her wallet. Is that enough guidance for your settlement meeting?

What is your goal here? Reconcilliation or divorce?


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Shaden #1935711 09/12/07 01:09 AM
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Quote:

but she was defintely defensive and unimpressed that I was sharing my opinion.




You were trying to educate her.

Quote:

Was this a mistake?




Yes

That isn't part of Plan A....or Plan B for that matter.

But, no one does a perfect Plan A.

Praying for you and your family!

~ Marsh

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BK...

I have been contacting my lawyer and will be going hard through him. I was all set to settle with my W tomorrow night and then go dark... but now I have to wait until lawyers settle everything... that could take a while.

I have no idea what to do in the meantime.

My conversation last night had one goal... it might have been the wrong goal... but it was to show calm in a conversation about her and OM. I was not angry or pushy. I stated my points and asked questions. It still might have been a mistake, but was not done to have an amicable divorce. I wanted her to see that I was not falling apart anymore over her.

I would like to go to Plan B as soon as possible.

Are you saying no more discussions about OM and WW?


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935713 09/12/07 06:41 AM
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Marsh...

I see your point about educating. I understand and agree.

thanks for your prayers.

I am good at being the nice guy and knowing how to be kind. But now I'm heading into uncharted waters for me. I have no clue how to act right now before Plan B is in place.

I did stand up and say that the boys will be playing hockey as I felt it was important for them. I said that I would be doing everything I could to get them there when I have them. My WW wanted to skip this year because she is too busy now with her second job. She wouldn't have to have a 2nd job if she kept our family together.

I'm just not so good at cutting through fog-battle. In the past I've always become defensive or angry or I've been the one apologizing. This time I wanted to show something different. But I still LB'd.

Any advice on what to do between now and Plan B? I don't know what Plan A looks like in the midst of a separation and her Affair.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935714 09/12/07 06:42 AM
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It's been recommended here that I stand back and let God do the work now... move forward with my life.

But I have not yet exposed to OM's family... or shown proof to WW's family.

Should this be happening still?

This has not been about a lack of willingness, but opportunity so far.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935715 09/12/07 06:49 AM
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Advice and 2x4s are all welcome.

I want reconciliation... not an amicable divorce.

I have no idea what my action is now while I wait.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935716 09/12/07 07:23 AM
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I guess my messages here sound a little desperate.

I'm not doing too bad... it's just that I know that I will not be able to do anything to help my WW once I'm in Plan B and I want to know that I have done everything possible before that time.

I thought about sending another message to SIL, and adding some proof. But I stopped myself because I have said that I will trust God.

I do trust God... but I also know that he expects action with faith. I'm looking for some guidance on what that action might be. To sit still... or to keep exposing.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935717 09/12/07 07:31 AM
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Shaden, sometimes faith requires ACTION. If you have proof of her affair and need to send it to convince someone, then by all means send it!

Can you rush this seperation agreement so you can go into Plan B? I think you have a good strategy, you just have to stick with it and focus on pushing it through as quickly as possible in order to get into Plan B.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Are you getting any sleep, Shaden?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Shaden #1935719 09/12/07 09:19 AM
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Plan A is where you begin to lovingly detach from her, (CLICK HERE TO READ BR'S THREAD ABOUT DETACHMENT) while you try to meet as many needs of hers as you can.

It is also a time where you expose.

Carrot and the stick.

FYI: There have been others here who have worked a great Plan A while separated from their cheating spouses.

Quote:

I have been contacting my lawyer and will be going hard through him. I was all set to settle with my W tomorrow night and then go dark... but now I have to wait until lawyers settle everything... that could take a while.




Why would you need to stay in Plan A any longer than you want to if your lawyer is going to settle your legal matters?

You can go dark while he does what he needs to do.

~ Marsh

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Hi Mel.

I'm doing much better tonight.

I keep getting mixed messages from so many people... but generally I am trying to keep to any advice you have given.

I am in agreement that action is required.

1) I am meeting with a lawyer on Friday afternoon.
2) I have postponed my meeting with WW to settle things... didn't give an explanation except that I'm pretty busy this week.
3) I am making a call for a family counsellor... my sons need to see one with me. My older son was extremely upset this morning... crying at school... came home and stayed home for the day.
4) I will gather the information on OM's children (teenagers or older), and OM's SIL (who needs to know about her husband talking with WW's sister).
5) I am considering calling WW's work HR dept. and telling them the situation... that she is probably using work time for emails.
6) I am considering sending the proof I have to WW's sister and Mom.
7) I will expose to other close friends.

Is there anything else I should be doing?

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Mel.

thanks for asking about my sleep.

I am getting enough. I'm doing so much better than the last time around 2 years ago.

Most of my anxiety is over trying to sort out what are the right things to do... second-guessing myself.

I have the occassional very low moment... but after all the pain and work over the past couple of years... it just seems a whole lot easier this time.

...easier to open my eyes and see that she is not getting any better and her behavior is destructive to herself, and to her family.

...easier to see that this is not about me. I have been a good husband. This is totally her.

I was thinking today about how we really don't have any control over the situation. She may or may not come back to me... and it doesn't really matter what I do. (There are better and worse choices for my actions though) She might have the strength or life-changing moment in which she realizes where she has gone... and I hope there will be someone there to help her. But she might never see it and continue down her path.

She might live out the rest of her life with some form of happiness... going on holidays and spending time with friends. She might be "happy". But she will never know the gift of being faithful and having the respect of building a strong family.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Hi Marsh,

Thanks for your reminder of the carrot and the stick.

I can't go dark until I have some issues settled... mainly the schedule with the boys. If I go dark before the lawyers settle this, I will have to come out again which hurts Plan B from the way I understand it.

However... if the main goal of Plan B is to protect myself, then maybe it is not such a bad idea to head there quickly.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935723 09/13/07 08:51 AM
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Just wanted to get a thought off my chest.

This is WW's third affair?

Do you really see her changing??

Sure...it happens, but if you were a betting man wouldn't you lay odds that this may be who she really is and it's not ever going to get better?

If divorce is the most likely outcome...wouldn't it be wise to put yourself in the best possible situation within which to win, at the very least, the maximum amount of custody you can handle?

You signed for the condo...does that mean the deed (not just the mortgage) is in your joint name?

If so...why not consider a plan wherein you just uncerimoniously move back in to YOUR home. The condo is a better place from which to fight for custody as it is OWNED and NOT a apartment. Plus, it's where the children sleep at night. You could move back in without telling her a word about it. Do it while she's out. Keep the apartment, for a short time, as a place SHE can run to if she so desires. Further, doesn't Canada require a 12 month minimum separation? Well, you could reset that date with just one night together at home. You can give the following as your reason: I moved out so we could have distance and think clearly about our relationship. I wanted you to miss me and see how important I was to this home. It was meant to be a RECOVERY tool...NOT, a separation leading to divorce. It was NOT meant to give you space so you could pursue other men. Seeing that my purposes for the separation are no longer necessary...I moved home. This is our home. My wife and kids are all here and I need to see that everything is being taken care of. I know how crazy things get when you are having an affair.

Another factor may be that you will be viewed by the court as the one that left and already agreed to the current custody arrangement. They will see no reason to alter your previously agreed to plan. They won't see your separation the way you do.

You may have to put off Plan B until SHE moves out or both stay put and fight it out. Sure the marriage is a priority but I think the children are more so. WW and her family are NOT going to be raising those kids properly so somebody has to. The more time you can win with them the better.

Mr. Wondering

Last edited by MrWondering; 09/13/07 08:53 AM.

FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Shaden:

Quote:

It was NOT meant to give you space so you could pursue other men.




Mr.W's thoughts have serious merit for exactly the reasons he states. I have to chime in and express agreement.

There is nothing wrong with a serious plan. Devise the plan and then work it.

Larry

_Larry_ #1935725 09/13/07 10:26 AM
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Shaden

I echo the above. Forget about WW, she is in God's hands now.

Protect first and foremost the children from having to be raised anymore than necessary by a selfish WW who will undoubtely not raise them properly (to coin Mr. W). She will be in and out of relationships, jobs, etc. You have been the glue in her life more than likely and when you are no longer there she will unravel and become worse than ever imo. Your children will suffer under her raising and example. Divorce is ugly, no way around it. Form a battle plan that firsts looks out for the future of your children and secondly shelters your heart from more pain, in that order.

_Larry_ #1935726 09/13/07 10:29 AM
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Exactly Larry,

I can hear the fogbabble already.

"Well, ya know, we WERE already separated when I started talking to OM and the marriage was already over. If not for Canada's laws requiring a year wait we'd have divorced immediately."

You separated, NOT as a precursor to divorce, but in an attempt to SAVE your marriage.

Now that that purpose no longer seems to be HER intent you are moving back HOME. Nothing will make your intent clearer than moving back home. If she wants a pre-divorce separation, SHE moves out.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Look Shaden, as Mr.W says, I am from Texas and since I have lots of pecans in my yard, that makes me nuts. See, by moving home with ATTITUDE as Mr.W instructs, YOU are in control, not her. Take charge of your life and as a first step, do the totally unexpected, righteous act that will throw her into confusion.

Out of that confusion, you can expect verbal abuse. Don't buy it or enable it, just stay the course with a smile and anti-babble verbages. Lock it into your mind and do it.

Mr.W has made a terrific suggestion. Really think about it.

Larry

_Larry_ #1935728 09/13/07 06:45 PM
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Larry, Mr. W.

Thanks for the advice.

I am going to see a lawyer tomorrow afternoon and will discuss the legalities with him around this.

One concern is that I have not technically lived in the condo as of yet. I did stay overnight 2 or 3 times at her invitation. I did sign the mortgage... I can't remember if that also included the deed, but I would assume so. I went to the lawyers office with her.

Until this morning, I did not have a key for the condo. My son accidentally left his behind when he slept over last night. (coincidence, or a little divine intervention?) I think I will go tonight and get it copied.

This would be an extremely tough assignment to follow through. I have not been as good as I should be for not being baited into debates or arguments... but I still can remain pretty calm in most arguments... just end up saying justifying, preaching, or teaching. I have always controlled my tongue and never swore at or called my wife any foul name. I'll need to read up on my babble breaking speech ahead of time.

Mel... what do you think about their plan? How will this work with Plan B? Obviously it would be delaying plan B, but is this an act of faith that should be considered?

Everyone is welcome to chime in.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935729 09/13/07 06:57 PM
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As to the comments about whether I should be staying or not in this marriage... I totally agree that this is seeming to be who my Wife is... no longer is it just something she has done... and, by the way, it is her 4th affair.

I am not looking to the future of divorce with fear any longer... I am certain of that. I don't like the prospect of it, but there are so many other opportunities out there for me without all the pain and sacrifice.

I am staying firm for 3 reasons.

1... I firmly believe that a good, faithful family is the best scenario for my sons and I will work towards this until I know that everything possible has been done.

2... I do love my W... not my WW. I know there is someone in there that I married and loved worth fighting for. If God turned his back on any of us who betrayed him, ignored him, or forgot him, then where would we be. I don't want to see her ruin her life. I know I can't save her, but I can make it possible that she might have a chance of saving herself.


3. Love is supposed to be unconditional. This is changing in its meaning for me. I have been a doormat and too patient...not acting. But it does not change the fact that I made a vow and will perservere. At some point, I will say enough... I have done everything possible and both God and myself will be pleased with my efforts. But I don't believe I am at that point yet. If I had been tougher the last time, and this is still happening, then maybe I would be ready to walk away. I am standing firm for me.

I have grown so much in the last 2 years and I can see the beginnings of another transformation happening in my attitudes, beliefs, and abilities. I am almost looking forward to this battle... to see a stronger me emerge.

I will have days when my weakness and fears will show through... But they are getting fewer and fewer.

I will perservere.

(ok, was that a little overdone and melodramatic???)


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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