I think that child protective services need to be involved as well. Your primary goal should be protecting your children. Recovering your marriage is secondary at this point.

J., I'm with Jim on this. This hothead's behavior cannot be ignored and smoothed over with a phone call. Your kids are living with the Addams family with an unhinged Grandpapa!

Please get a bulldog atty. on this and file assault charges, the courts won't let your kids stay in a home with an abuser. You are a rank stranger and he's wanting to duke it out with you? You wanna wonder what goes on behind closed doors?

Now, this 25 yr old kid is having your WW lay down the law to you....you know it's coming from the "family" conference that ensued after you left.

They are trying to keep you from your kids, straight up, deal with them, swiftly and legally. Start the ball rolling today, for your own peace of mind.

I agree with jmwc95.
It seems like from your previous posts, that you are allowing these people to treat you like a doormat, and now they have finally crossed the line, legally.

For the safety of your children, you need to get full custody of your kids, even if its just temporary pending a real hearing. Talk to your lawyer and see what he thinks about a strange man touching your children in the bath with or without the mother present. Try and get child protective services involved. Also, definitely inform the police about the assault and abuse you received from the OM's father. It sounds like your wife is building a perfect case to grant you full custody, if only you would act on it.

It looks like you are simply equivocating here and you need to get off the fence. You have no reason to "respect" any of these people. Even the OM's mother, she is enabling this affair and is condoning the treatment of your children!

Get the full weight of the law involved and bring it crashing down on their heads. If your lawyer isn't aggressive enough, get another asap. You are allowing yourself to be steamrolled, and in the meantime you have another man doing god knows what to your kids.

Lawyer is in court this morning..

I'll let everyone know how this goes by this afternoon I'm sure.

I'm definitely going to use whatever I can to help strengthen my case to get my son. I know I can provide for his daily needs in a much much better way than she can, the affair aside. With it in the picture the answer to that question is absolute.

I'm not riding the fence when it comes to my son.. I'm simply seeking the advice of my lawyer before taking any steps like CPS or filing assault charges.

Jamesus,

What reason do you have to believe that your wife is a good investment or that this is abberrantbehavior from her?

What were the circumstances surrounding her previous divorce?

The circumstances surrounding her previous divorce are almost frighteningly similar to what is happening now. That's one of the reasons I'm so scared she's going to rabbit with my son. The exception is that she claimed that husband 1 was physically abusive, something he of course denies, and his parents never saw it, and they were living with his parents initially when they got married.

Selfishness is nothing new with my wife.. the inability to admit or even see where she is in the wrong is also there. Things that have to be worked on if we are to reconcile, but to this extreme is very out of character for her. She's always put her kids first in her life before now. I was part of that.. she found in me a guy who could be a wonderful father for her daughter, and would be a good man to raise our son with. I received a lot of joy and blessings from being a provider for my family. And while I acknowledge my shortcomings in providing for her emotional needs as I should have.. it's a two way street, and one we have to get back onto should things work.

At this point though, reconciliation is a distant second concern to me. My son's safety and well being are paramount.. second to that is the safety and well being of my stepdaughter. There's little I can do beyond keeping her grandparents and father updated on the situation, but I'm hoping that by doing so, they will also seek to help my little angel out of this situation where I cannot.

Brace yourself you aren't going to like this.

It is my opinion that your best option is to leave this marriage and focus on being a parent to your son.

I'm very, very [very] sorry to say that I think you used very poor judgement when you married this woman and that I don't support taking a wrong decision and trying to "make" it be a right one.

I don't know the details with regard to how you came to be ensnared in this situation but I would strongly suggest that you take steps to avoid such ensnarements in the future.

Are you a christian?

I was raised baptist, went to a baptist school for elementary. Have a very strong foundation in Christianity, but have gotten away from being one of the folks that shows up every Sunday and prefer to have my own profound and personal relationship with God.

I started going to Catholic Mass with my wife when we first got together and was honestly excited about taking part in a congregation again. Sadly though we've even slipped away from doing that lately.

I understand completely the viewpoint that this isn't a 'fair' relationship.. but the truth is, deep down I love her without condition or restraint. Even now when I've been betrayed and hurt so deeply, I love her with every fiber of my being. The person she is right now is not the woman I married. She's a wounded animal gnawing at her own leg to save the rest of her emotional body. I understand a lot of that after having read Dr. H's basic emotional needs etc.

I was very happy in our marriage.. and while I physically carried a lot of the water, I received fulfilment in knowing that I provided for those I loved, and that in turn they recognized that love and felt the same way. I can't allow myself to completely give up hope that the wonderful marriage we had at first can't be restored or even made better. We've been through a lot in our three years, things that most couples take many more years to have to go through.. and each time until now she and I pulled together during those times and emerged stronger for it. If there is a chance for that here, I have to leave the door open.

I do know that it would be a long hard road, and she's going to have to want to walk it first... right now though I am focused on what I can worry about, and that is my son. If she follows him home, great.. we can get to work on our marriage then. If she doesn't, I will at least be able to be at peace knowing that my son is safe, loved, and provided for.

Well, I certainly understand that my viewpoint is inflexable.

I do not believe that an adulterous marriage [and yours would qualify here unles she left her H for adultery] can be healthy and I do believe that leaving the relationship is a first step in repenting of the choice to have an adulterous relationship.

I assume that the two of you were also physically intimate prior to marriage.

In my opinion this creates affair dynamics within the dating relationship as well and as much as I hate to be so unsupportive I have to conclude that you have about as much chance of ever having a godly faithfull and mature relationship with this woman as she has with her current OM..in fact from my position YOU are an OM as well because she was not released from her covenant relationship with her first husband when she began dating and sleeping with you.

This seems to be her pattern and I have no reason to expect her to deviate from it most especially considerng that she carried it out in full previously.

You say that you love her without condition or restraint...you don't care about the consequences or whether it is right or wrong.

I guess that's supposed to be romantic. Sounds more like an affair to me.


So you probably won't be interested in talking with me very much and I will respect that.

Actually I really appreciate your viewpoint.

I didn't come her just to find people who agreed with me and would just help me get to whatever I 'want'. That wouldn't make this site a very good one for people who are going through these things.

She had been separated from her ex husband for about a year when we met. Had been divorced for about half of that time. We did get physical fairly quickly in our relationship, but I can say pretty confidently that it wasn't an affair mentality... I will think on this more though.

We were very careful introducing eachother to our children, and while she got pregnant very early on in our relationship we decided to wait to get married until after the child was born, and we'd had some time to sort out ourselves, and make sure we were marrying for the right reasons. We went through almost a year of pre-marital counceling through the local parish, and felt at the end of it that not only were we doing it for the right reasons, but that we were the right fit for ourselves and eachother.

She wanted the Catholic wedding because she was absolutely convinced by the end of our counceling that this would be the forever marriage.. of course nobody gets married expecting to divorce.. and that's simply the reality of it all.

As I've said though... reconciliation is a goal.. but right now it's a distant secondary concern to knowing my son is safe and his needs are being attended to by a parent, not a stranger.

This is probably the best attitude you can have right now. Focus on getting your son out of the situation your WW has placed him in. Go for full custody, no holds barred. Take the gloves off.
Your reconciliation must be placed on the back burner and this custody issue could actually be the event that breaks through her fog. When it is no longer just your opinion, but the opinion of the courts, that she has placed her children in jeopardy, maybe she will finally have an ephiphany.
Keep recording and reporting everything to your lawyer and let slip the dogs of war!

Hope to hear some good news later today!

Well I appreciate your appreciation [lol].

I'll continue to give you my .02 as long as I am welcome on your thread. I won't take offense when you don't agree with me.

Here is an expansion.

After much consideration I have come to the conclusion that many people here [myself included] found ourselves in this position primarily because we have tolerated or nurtured disobediance in our lives.

I became aware that merely mouthing the words "bad decision" in no way expressed the gravity and permanence to the consequences I was setting in motion with my BAD DECISIONS.

It was such an alien concept to me that when God said you should not ...that it actually meant you should NOT. It would bring hardship and loss into your life to do so. Hardship you couldn't reason with or talk your way out of any more than you can reason with gravity if you step off a cliff. Even if you change your mind...even if you didn't mean it...even if you were ignorant at the tme..the ground is hurtling towards you at [seemingly] a rate of mach 1 and the collision isn't pretty.

I think I have been slapped in the face enough times now to concede that God is not subject to my approval in judging what is right and what is wrong.

I can choose to obey or not.

I can not choose the consequences.

OK..I struggle with it but I believe it now. I see the connections between by disobediance and my losses. They seem pretty obvious now that my emotions are out of the way.

So as I see it in your situation...you were already living out of obediance and accordance with God's will as expressed in scripture.

It's not a big suprise that when you are living in your flesh you make decisions with that same equipment.

One of those decisions was to first engage in fornication and then marry a woman whom you could not have a "blessed" union with.

That was your choice, your decision. The really suprising thing though is that there is always this desire to try and reconcile with God under your terms isn't there?

To ask for the fruit that is promised to people when they chose differently. To say...OK I defied you on this issue but can't I have the goods anyway?

Well in my experience, study, and observation the answer is a resounding "no".

Can I fail to discipline my children and expect them to grow into mature adults? No.

Can I marry in defiance and poor judgement and expect that marriage to be fruitfull and lasting? I say likewise no.

I think these consequences are designed to expose folly as folly in the hopes that you will turn from it.

What I see you saying is..."I hate the consequences of my choices but am not willing to turn from them or judge them as wrong".

Unfortunately I don't expect a good result for you from that position.

Noodle,

I don't know if you were insinuating that James's marriage was an affair marriage, but it was not.

James,

I think that your WW is mentally or psychologically ill and that any attempt at reconciliation should only be done AFTER your WW has started treatment for her illness. Otherwise, she'll just do this again. I agree that your primary goal should be to protect your children from your WW and OM's family. Your WW is truly NUTS. If it doesn't work out, please use better judgement next time when choosing a mate.

Jim,

I'm insinuating nothing.

My belief is that it's likely that his marriage would be considered adulterous whether he was an active OM in the relationship or not, it was certainly immoral and made in poor judgement.

If that is the case I believe the best course of action for him is to let go of what was never going to be healthy and not fall into the same pattern next time.
He is free to disagree or even ask me to stop posting to him.

I am talking about the relationship between cause and effect.

And realistic expectations.

What? You mean marrying this crack addict with tripple digit debts and five children and several violent ex boyfriends isn't going to lead to the picket fence i idealise? How can that possibly be?

Okay, noodle, I understand what you are saying. I agree 100% that it was a piss-poor decision getting involved with this woman, but I don't know if it was immoral. I would be inclined to tell him to run, but being the forgiving person that I am, I might wait to see if any psychological treatment as well as recommitment to the church has any affect on his WW before I completely wrote her off. I understand that it probably won't, but I wouldn't blame him for trying. However, priority #1 is protecting his children from this Jerry Springer-like OM and family.

James,
I would pay attention to what Noodle is saying to you.
Your M began, based on your because your wife got pregnant. Also, her first marriage did not end in a way that would allow her to re-marry according to Scripture. Obviously, not everyone holds the same beliefs...but her points deserve consideration.
I personally know of more than a few marriages that began as yours did...albeit without the baggage that she brought into the relationship...that have thrived for years on end.
I think the real issue here is that your wife is just not a good person. I have walked in your shoes and have felt that same love for an abusive partner...my advice...run far and fast. Love does not demonstrate the types of behaviors that your wife has shown. No matter your feelings for this woman now...if you get yourself out of the mess that is your marriage, you will one day very soon look back and mark with great glee your decision to leave her behind. She is a cancer. Focus on your children and nothing more...except for your relationship with God.
I am confused as to why you allowed your son back there again.
Can you let me know how your calls to CPS went?

MEDC

Noodle and MEDC,

I think that you guys are starting to sway me. I usually am a bit idealistic and think that almost every marriage can be saved, but I think you are right. This woman is no good. I also missed the part about why they got married. I guess I was too consumed with the Jerry Springer like drama. I think that you should move on and it would take a miracle turnaround before I would let this woman back into my life. They will tell you, I hate writing off marriages, but I am skeptical that your WW can be saved from herself. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.

LOL!!!! It is hard to believe that the picket fence can't be made out of termite infested wood and expected to make it, isn't it.

I agree with noodle on one thing. This marriage was an adulterous marriage no matter what. Even with the previous divorce, it was still adulterous and had little hope of making it. Not that I feel it is impossible, with God all things are possible. But even now she is still committing adultery on her first husband and now you. The list seems neverending. I give you many kudos for wanting to salvage this train wreck if possible.

I agree with Jim that any reconciliation would have to be on the wings of some very intense counceling for your WW. Protect your son and then go from there. You have a very good plan in place.

Just remember that most of us on here have committed the sins of fornication and/or adultery. One is no better than the next. The difference is the level of wisdom that we have each taken away from these experiences. Just remember that it isn't how far you fall in your life, its how you get back up. My prayers are with you and your family.

I do understand what you guys are saying.

Honestly I had thoughts of marriage with her even before our son was born. Of course I had my doubts and concerns and many long conversations with myself over why exactly I wanted to marry this woman. The truth of the matter is that when in a state of romantic love, we compliment eachother beyond perfectly. But we're also both habit driven creatures and have allowed some of those habits to drive a wedge between us. Communication used to be our strongest asset, and now it's our greatest weakness. I know that we can get back to good again, of that I have no doubts. I know that this can be a fulfilling marriage for us both. The problem is that both of us have to want it. She doesn't.. she claims that she's already gone through the grieving, the anger, and the sadness, and is past it now (more fog I'm sure). But I have absolute faith that should she truly wish to reconcile.. if we get counceling and use the MB principles, we can make this marriage better than ever. Even the husband and wife she is staying with have recovered their marriage and both say it is better having had to fight for it..

Still, even the possibility that she will -want- to do what is required to reconcile is remote at best, and I've come to a point where I accept that and know that so long as I have my children, I'll be just fine unmarried. I know I am capable of moving forward with my life without her. Is it so wrong to want the apple tree and all of the responsibilities of caring and nurturing its growth along with the reward of having the apples too?