No.. but it's in the divorce filing that he lives with her. Doesn't that make it set at least until we get orders from a judge that he stays with her?

I don't know james...does it??? It would seem to me that a filing is an undecided issue that has not yet been settled.
I would also think that your lawyer should have already answered all this for you....did you express to the attorney that you are concerned about your child????
If so, what did he suggest that you do to IMMEDIATELY protect your son?
I thought you made it clear to the attorney that you wanted to go for custody.

Well.. got a call from the daycare.. she took him to daycare this morning, saying she changed her mind about withdrawing him.

That makes me feel a little safer at least.

Not sure what that does to my case against her.. that was my biggest reason for wanting him out of there... I can still show that in previous weeks she didn't send him but I'm not sure that's going to matter to a judge.

I'm in the process of finding another attorney, I feel like his hesitation now has cost me one of my biggest legs up in this case..

If anyone has additional information on how fathers -can- win custody.

Or any instances I can look at where a father took his son back like many are suggesting.. and it worked out well in their favor.. how they pulled it off. I'd really like to see it.

My hesitation and fear at this point is driven by the fact that I can show that I've been operating within the rules, and she hasn't. I'm afraid that if I just don't let my son go back to her, that I'm going to look like the irrational one.

Please help.. I still feel like I'm drowning.

Jamesus...I don't know why this stuff isn't sinking in for you. I have said NUMEROUS times that you need to hire an agressive lawyer that specializes in fathers rights. I passed on a link to you and also discussed this with you on the phone. That is the best way you can handle this.
The OTHER thing you can do is stop being afraid and FIGHT! So far all I have seen in someone willing to accept his fate. FIGHT.
If you are not willing to take these steps...all the advice in the world isn't going to help you.

So you have a perfect score and she doesn't.

You ought to take steps to document your concern that she may hightail it.

You ought to REFUSE to allow your children into a house where a man you do not trust is bathing your children. That's insane. I don't care how civilized and well-adjusted these people pretend to be. Another man is messing around with your wife and having extremely close contact with your children. You can refuse, right now, to allow this. Would you drop your child off at some random stranger's house and ask whoever answered the door to take care of your son? Of course not! So why should you agree to let OM do it? Your wife may approve of him, but as an equal parent you have veto power here, I'm almost sure of it.

How are you justified in this?

This man is completely untrustworthy as far as you're concerned.

Other people who live in the house have threatened and assaulted you physically.

Game over.

GC

I think things are starting to change... in subtle ways. Please folks, don't give up on me just yet.

WW and I have in the last few days gotten back to a state of Conflict. Same sort of thing you read about in the 'how can one person save a marriage'..

She's doing everything she can to play down the 'affair'.. still maintains that things were 'over' with us before she and he got together.. I still feel that this is a smokescreen, but at the same time I can also see where she might actually believe this to be how things happened. If so, I think it might make forgiveness of this relationship, should she choose to end it at least a little easier. Still, I know in my heart what it is.. what the bible says about it.. and eventually we will have to deal with that issue.

When she came to pick up our son (no longer dropping them off at the place where she is staying), we talked briefly. I asked her again to stop the divorce, and take a chance on making our marriage happy again, making our family whole again. She said at one point 'If I did come back, the only reason would be for that boy.. how would that make you feel?' I told her that it would be a great step forward in doing what is in our children's best interest. If it would give me the chance to show her the changes I've made in myself that it would be worth every moment at least to try.

She decided at that point that she needed to leave, and I could see something soften in the hard looks she's been giving me..

I'm not going to stop the legal battle for my son. She's at least starting to think in terms of what is best for them.. but I feel there may be new hope for saving my marriage, and my family.

As long as there is contact with OM and his family, your situation will not improve. You need to be less passive and more agressive in your defense of your family.

"It was already over between you." I would have said, "baloney, you were celebrating our anniversary with me a month ago and then two weeks later you were moved in with OM. Don't insult my intelligence. And, you don't have to have sex for it to be an affair."

I've made that point in past conversations.. it causes her to throw up the wall so I skipped it last night.

Instead I said.. No, I don't believe this story, but I have been praying for forgiveness and understanding. It hasn't come yet but I'm trying.

If I can somehow get her home with the kids, it will solve the immediate problem of getting our children out of this terrible situation, and provide me with the opportunity to try and start rebuilding our marriage, and be a good father to my kids at the same time...

Here is the email I sent to her this morning:


WW..

Last night when we talked.. you said 'If I were to come back to you, the only reason would be our son. How would you feel about that'.

I told you that it would be a huge step in the right direction for doing what is best for our kids. If it would afford me the opportunity to show you that I can change the things I was doing that hurt our marriage, show you what kind of husband I can be, and what kind of father.. it's worth the risk.

Let's set a time for you and I to get together and talk face to face about this possibility. We can talk about what your expectations would be, and what mine would be, and see if we can come to an agreement that will allow us both to give our family the opportunity to survive.

I'm not asking for you to come home and suddenly flip a switch and things be ok. I'm going into this with the understanding that right now you are very angry with me, and are not feeling the love I know in your heart exists for this family. I will hold no expectations from you, other than you open your heart to see that I have recognized many of the things I was doing that made you feel neglected in our marriage. I am willing to do all I can to make changes to show you each day how much I love, adore, and appreciate everything you bring to our marriage and our family. I'm not expecting you to let me in all at once, if necessary I'll sleep on the couch and let you have the bedroom at night until you are ready to let me hold you.. I will do my best to let the past be in the past and move forward with the knowledge learned from our mistakes and pray for the strength not to make them again.. and pray for your understanding that if I do slip, I need you to tell me that something I do is hurting you, and help me find my way back to the things I do right for you.

I'll only need your help to understand what it is that you need in a relationship that I haven't been giving.. the kinds of things we talked about early on that apparently I've forgotten.. or the things I used to do that made you happy, and made you want to spend the rest of our lives together.. things I don't do now that I need to start doing again.. and keep doing for the rest of our lives. I don't want to be responsible for your unhappiness.. seeing you smile, and making you laugh, doing everything I can do to make my wife and my children happy, is one of the greatest joys in my life. I really want to be able to recover the love that once bound our hearts together, the love that God blessed us with for eachother and manifested in our precious son.. the love that opened my heart to the wonderful blessing of a daughter that I had the opportunity to help raise and turn into a wonderful young woman.

Our family is worth the effort.. it's worth the risk.. Our kids need their home, their rooms, the stability that only you and I together can provide. If there's even the slightest chance for us to come out the other side of this happy with ourselves, eachother, and our children.. knowing that we at least tried to do the best we can do.. it will be worth every effort.

Please know that I love you, I love our children, I love our family.. and am committed to honoring the promises I made to you at the beginning, the promises we made before God and our families and friends, and the promises we've made to our children that they would always have us.. that noone would ever walk out of their lives.. please WW at least let us discuss the possibilities.. it's worth this, and so much more.

All of my love, for all time.
J

You should include in here the expectations that she will TRY to do the right things...marriage counseling with the H's as one of them. She WILL maintain NC with OM during that time as well.

If you bring her back without these safegaurds in place before she comes, you're just setting up the situation for further failure.

You needed to include that she find another job and have NC w/ OM for life, otherwise, you are just going to have her cake-eat forever.

Would that not be making demands?

I thought plan A was supposed to be providing and giving without expectation of a return.

Is asking her to change jobs truly necessary? It's not the OM that works there but the OM's mother. I've thought about how that would keep the withdrawl going longer but if she can get past it.. I do intend to push for NC, in order to give this a fair shake.

My real question is.. do you think with the statement she made, she's letting a crack in the door to coming back? Or do you think it's more or less something to throw me off.

Its not making demands. Its setting boundaries.

If you allow her to come back and remain in contact with OM in any fashion, she'll do just what Jim said...she'll cake eat. We've seen NUMEROUS posters here make the mistake of allowing a continuing to be wayward spouse to return. It very often ends up failing. Far more often than not, from what I've seen.

Do we think she's serious about returning? Who knows? But in order for your marriage to be given a chance to recover, you HAVE to set your expectations now...because if you try to implement them AFTER she comes back, its worse.

I've seen the offer of a 'trial period of NC' work in a few cases. Where you get her agreemant to go NC with OM for a set period of time...but make that period of time long enough to ensure that your wife goes through withdrawl from the loss of that relationship. There was a poster here named Sysyphus who used that tactic to save his marriage.

But you have to have your ground rules in place BEFORE you allow her back in.

I wouldn't be surprised if she says "No, I won't move back if you're going to require that of me." Don't let that sway your boundaries. Its a common tactic.

Explain to her that you're ok with her coming back and trying, even if its only "just for our son". But, she has to make an HONEST attempt. And an honest attempt means that she's agreed to TRY. That means all those boundaries that Jim and I mentioned. Tell her that you're not going to expect her to get feelings back for you overnight. But you KNOW that she will never do so if she does remain in contact with OM in ANY FASHION. So to make it a 'real' attempt on her part, that has to happen...NC must be in place with OM BEFORE she moves back in!

James, against my own words, I will post here again.
Your wife is throwing up smoke screens.
If she returns....great.
In the meantime....where did your child sleep last night?? Tonight??? Tomorrow????
If your answer tot hat question is not at home in his bed...you are failing at your first job as a dad...protect your children at all costs.
Anything else at this point doesn't mean a hill of beans.

Wise words Owl.. and I will be absolutely sure to put them forward.

You're right about the NC.. it's something I'll need to have otherwise I'll go nuts and we'll end up right back where this mess started.

MKEDC: If I can get her to want to come back and do this on her terms, don't the kids, her, and I all start winning again instead of losing everything we hold dear? Shouldn't I at least try the honey approach before beating with sticks?

NO.. Your HONEY approach has your child living some where he should never be. So, no. Your problem has been appeasing her too much...and every single night your child is in that house is a danger to him and your family. Your child deserves for you to put up the fight of your life to get him home...not to bargain with a woman that has shown an ability to hurt him.

If you give a WS an inch, they will take a mile. Appeasement never works with a WS. It only fuels their entitlement. Yes, you need your children sleeping at home with you, but it is better to acheive that with a court order and clear boundaries than to appease your WW and allow her to continue her affair because eventually, she will go back to OM again.

Never never never never never use the word "PLEASE" or any of its synonyms when communicating with your WW.

And don't expect a letter to have much impact. She might just read the first few words of each paragraph and the rest will just look like BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

GC

I hear what you're saying GC.. and you are right. I will be more mindful of the pleases in the future.

I do believe though that she is reading them. If nothing else out of a curiosity to see where my head is at.

I simply hope, and have been praying that these words do touch her heart, and that God moves within her to help her see through the fog that our marriage is worth saving.

http://www.fathersrights.org

It's already Thursday for Pete's sake! Have you filed for temporary custody yet? I'm with MEDC on this one! Get your son home, then work on the marriage!