Ok.. lots to catch up on.. I'll try to answer all the questions.

PM: As I understand it (and honestly I'm no legal eagle but have been doing a lot of reading trying to understand the process) we have withdrawn our agreement to the Stipulation in Lieu of Provisional Orders (it had not yet been filed with the court when we put a stop to it), and filed paperwork requesting temporary custody of my son.

As for her legal fees, her lawyer is working for her for free according to her, she's doing all the paperwork and her boss is pretty much just signing her name to it.

MEDC: Should be talking to my lawyer today.. I'm going to see where he is at on this, and if it looks like we're going to be protracting this out to get this in front of a judge, I'm going to tell him we need to push for an emergency hearing. I -know- he's being left in the care of the OM in the mornings because the OM is the one who has been signing him in at daycare. If that's enough to get an emergency custody.. then I should be golden.

Mr. W: Thank you so much for the excellent advice.. she's stated that she will -not- agree to a 50/50 parenting time share. Basically denying me any additional time with my son other than every Wednesday and every other weekend.

I'm interested though in the notion you spoke of in dictating my own plan. Essentially have my lawyer send something over to her lawyers office stating my terms? As for picking him up and dropping him off at daycare I shouldn't need any help at all with that. I'm more than capable of getting him there and picking him up myself.. every day.

James

Morning James!

I am going to stay out of the legal/custody discussion right now. I think you are getting good input there.

I want to ask about YOU. How are YOU? I know it becomes all encompassing dealing with the legal stuff, worrying about your DS. It is easy to lose sight of the importance of taking care of yourself.

Simple things like, are you eating properly? Are you sleeping enough? What are you doing to take care of yourself physically and emotionally. Who is your support system?

ALL of those things are very important - if you aren't taking care of YOU, then you aren't going to be giving your DS the best of you. Just be aware of those things, OK?

Have a good day & keep us posted!

Thanks for the post Bugs.. I kinda left some of where I'm at in your post, but I'll try and be more direct in my answer here.

I'm getting to a point where I'm able to 'let go' of what has been an overwhelming desire to have my W back. I'm at a point where I do realize that nothing I can say will change things for her, and that if she does ultimately come back, it will have to be for her. The truth of the matter is that -many- things in our marriage will have to change for the both of us, and I honestly believe that she doesn't have it in her to put in the monumental effort it would take for us to make things anywhere close to right again. I think I've finally accepted that... and with that the realization that I -must- move on... for me, and for my DS and DD.

I've also come to the understanding that I have lost my DSD.. at least for the time being. Perhaps one day when she is ready she will seek me out. I hurt for her, I pray for her and I give it to God because that's all I can do. I do the same for my WW, and my W. I hope and pray that she finds peace and happiness, regardless of the outcome of our marriage. I pray that she finds it in her to be a good mom instead of such a thoughtless, selfish person that she has become. Unfortunately she has always been selfish and thoughtless.. I don't see that changing anytime soon. So I give it to God.. there's nothing I can do about that.

I'm sleeping well.. Stayed up late last night on the phone with DSD's family on her father's side. Making sure my ducks are in a row for character witnesses, people who can help me prove her previous parental alienation and the pattern she followed with her previous D. It did a lot to strengthen my resolve, and to remind me that this is not the first time she has completely destroyed a good man's life, and ripped his child out of his arms.

I honestly believe she's got problems.. she needs IC in a bad way, but her pride I doubt would allow it. In her eyes, she's never in the wrong.

I think I have to let go.. and I'm starting to think I need to move on. To be honest with you Bugs.. I don't know that I -can- take her back.. especially if I get my son. I don't know that I can allow her the opportunity to do this all over again.. my kids are too important to me.

I'm doing pretty good taking care of me. I'll admit that I'm probably not eating as much as I ought to. I'm down 30lbs from the weight I was at when she left just over a month ago. I know that's not totally healthy, but to be honest with you it's 30lbs I could have afforded to lose. I'm working on quitting smoking though I have my doubts about my resolve with all this stress in my life, and I'm working out as a way to relieve my frustration and anger.. so as you can probably guess I've been working out a lot lately. May actually have to back off some because I'm constantly sore now.

As far as taking care of myself emotionally, I've been playing my guitar and writing music every night. It helps to get some of these thoughts artistically out of my system. It helps a lot actually. My mom and my DD have been my biggest supporters. I call my brother a lot on the phone as he lives about 13 hours away... and he's been helping me too.

Learned a song I didn't know before last weekend.. and I cry each time I sing it.. but I think it's good to get that out too.

Matchbox 20 - Hang
-------------------
She grabs her magazine
She takes her things and she goes
She leaves the pictures hanging on the wall
And she burns all her notes
And she knows
She's been here too few years
To feel this old.

He smokes his cigarette
He stays outside till it's gone
If anybody ever had a heart
Well he wouldn't be alone
And he knows
She's been here too few years
To be gone

And we always say
It would be good to go away
Someday
But if nothings there to make things change
If it's the same to you I'll just hang

The trouble understand
She's got reasons he don't
Funny how I couldn't see at all
Until she grabbed up her coat
And she goes
She's been here too few years
To take it all in stride
But still it's much too long
To let her go

And we always say
It would be good to go away
Someday
But if nothing's there to make things change
If it's the same to you I'll just hang
If it's the same to you I'll always hang and I
Always say
It would be good to go away
Someday
But if there's nothing there to ease this pain
And if there's nothing there to cease this aching
And if there's nothing there to make things change
If it's the same to you I'll just hang.

Also... been going back to one of my old favorites that I used to sing and play in my dorm room at college..

Blind Melon - Change
--------------------
I don't feel the sun coming out today
Stayin in, it's gonna find another way
As I sit here in this misery
I don't think I'll ever know Lord
Or see the sun from here

Oh, as I fade away
They'll all look at me and say
Hey look at him
How does he live that way
That's ok
They're just afraid of change

When you feel life ain't worth livin
You've got to take a look around
And lift your head to the sky
And when your deepest thoughts are broken
Keep on dreamin boy
'cause when you stop dreamin
It's time to die

And as we all cast thoughts on tomorrow
In some ways we'll work
In other ways we'll play
But I know we can't all stay here forever
That's why I'll write my words
On the face of Today
And then I'll paint it

Oh, as I fade away
They'll all look at me and say
Hey look at him
Where he is these days
Life is hard
You have to change
Life is hard
You have to change

by far one of my favorites from one of my favorite bands. Learning to play and sing that one has helped me through many a dark hour in my life.

J, didn't you say that your DSS stated that they slept in the same room but that it was ok since everyone had on pajamas? If I am correct on this recollection, wouldn't this be some sort of recourse for you? And IF you had filed a report on the Grandpa-pa smacking your sunglasses off, maybe that would give you grounds for removal? maybe you can still file something on that?

It's war, buddy and so far she's taking all the prisoners.

No.. the kids (DS and DSD) are sleeping with her co-worker's 12 year old son in his bedroom. At least that's how I understand it. DSD however did observe that OM is sleeping in the bedroom with mommmy.. but assured me that everything was 'ok' because they had their pajamas on.


I'm inclined to agree about the assault thing.. still no love from my lawyer.. office opens in 30 minutes though.. I'll be on the phone.

Just ignore her. She has no more right to dictate custody than you. If she won't agree to a 50-50 agreement impose it as the fall back plan since you know she won't be reasonable. The beauty of my plan is that the only way she can beat it is to deny you ALL custody or run around kidnapping her own children (of course, it's not really kinapping so don't call the cops...just document it and it will make her look horrible in court).


You really aren't dictating yourself. You, through your attorney, are merely saying SHE can't dictate and/or ignoring HER dictating anything. You clearly state you are open to any 50-50 agreement she can think of and be sure to throw in you'd like to negotiate the holidays also. Put in that you'd like to see DSD (and offer time with your daughter which within negotiations you can take away if she refuses to protect daughter from OM which she won't) but the letter you want to make visits with your DD seem doable because YOU are the reasonable looking solely out to support the kids through this difficult time.

You are not dictating 50-50
You are not dictating 50-50.

It is merely what is fair and in the best interests of the kids, instead of fighting over them, to agree to 50-50 in lieu of any court order. It is soooo fair that starting today, absent or until she agrees to some other 50-50 mutually acceptable agreement...you are going to henceforth PRESUME that for each day she keeps the kids you get a day. She keeps them 4 days...you get 4 days.

I hope this makes sense and do pass it by your attorney. It may be something better stated firmly by YOU in an email, with your attorney's advice, to support your never ending document war to demonstrate your reasonableness, willingness, desire, calmness and ability to coparent ALL these children.

Mr. Wondering

I'll see what he says when I talk to him about it this morning.

from a legal standpoint, I like Mr. W's suggestion...
as a father, I find it not so helpful...

let me explain...
in the short term...you have great concern for your child. Once again, you will be giving your seal of approval for your son to be staying in an environment that you feel is a danger to your child. Also, I believe that once you enforce the equal time issue that one of two things will happen...she will deny you all access to him (which will go against her in court...but it puts your son out of reach until a settlement is reached)...or when you get to court you will have a hard time arguing that your kid should be in his home full time if YOU were willing to let him be there now.
I will defer to Mr. W with most areas of law...after all, he is an attorney. I have a great handle on father's rights having walked these roads myself and just see your allowing the child over there at all as a problem. There is no need for James to be accepting of any co-parenting situation that puts his child in harms way...mentally or physically.

Sorry, I've still got a problem with a 12 yr old in the same room with both those kids. He's startin to get hormones. I'm just trying to be real here, and you know a child is more likely to be abused when their mom carries on this lifestyle. You know nothing about this kid other than his Dad is an ogre, you don't know what he has been thru and what he will emulate. I think childrens services need to check out these sleeping arrangements. Do they each have a bed?

MDEC,

I agree it sucks and you are very right. But all things considered (including the poster), I just don't think it can be pulled off without making him look bad.

Legally speaking...IMO...he's screwed if he runs around screaming she's unfit and the place is unfit. I know it is...you know it is but that doesn't help him in court. He's got to document like crazy and allow the court to do it's job and make such assesment. He'll be punished for preempting their authority. Until such time, he's got to get at least 50-50 parenting time.

I was just thinking this over and I truly believe that my suggested plan above should be sent by you in the form of an email. One of your advantages is that they think they are smarter than you...legally. Therefore, your email may illicit unwise emotional responses and anger as opposed to an attorney letter which will be met with serious consideration and gamemanship. Plus...you want the days to start counting today...Friday. That makes next wednesday...your next visitation day a FIVE night visitation. You get your son Wednesday...through Sunday. This first visitation I wouldn't necessarily place him in daycare where she can merely "kidnap" him back. IF possible take two days off and take a road trip or take him for a visit to your mom's or grandma's. If you have to work leave him with a family member versus daycare. We are only talking two days but you want to establish your rights to those days and show you at least handled it well. You want HER going nuts...filing emergency motions and maybe even her and her friends will do something really irrational like come to your home (have your cell phone handy and call the cops immediately).

Also...Wednesday she may attempt to make you PROMISE to return your son immediately despite what the letter/email said. I encourage you to AGREE. Make her believe you will give your son back...whatever she wants...to get your son in your custody. Immediately thereafter send an email detailing her attempts to blackmail...how harmful that is to do in front of your son...how you refuse to honor or keep promises given under duress and blackmail...how you will keep the boy 5 days just as you told her in your email last week barring a court order to the contrary and barring a mutually acceptable 50-50 temporary agreement you guys come up with for this time preceeding court. Be VERY calm and very rational.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I, too, was very uptight about a 12 year boy sharing a room with a 8 year old step sister.

Again, I have a gut feeling that paralegal friend is running this show. The attorney that's signing off on this stuff needs to be accountable. If your attorney starts this negotiating with her "attorney" it will mean that the attorney signing the paperwork will have to really play ball. Wonder if he or she will be so willing to donate his or her time then?

I agree with Mr. W. The more agreeable you appear, the better for you but I also agree with the others that your child is NOT in a good environment. Perhaps your attorney should bring up his concerns with her "attorney" about THAT and see where it goes. The fact that you're not allowed to go where your child lives is just wrong. You have the right to SEE or inspect the environment that he's in at any time.

I disagree and have never said anything about running around saying she is unfit. I respect the role the attorney's play in legal matters...but I will say that when it comes to father's rights...they have in the past been as much of an impediment as anything. I doubt for one moment that his lawyer would be so passive if James were the BW....and that plays into the weakness of the system..rather than fighting to change it. had I listened to my attorney in the past...I would have the every other weekend deal that most fathers get screwed with. It's easy...doesn't require much work on their part...and the courts are all too happy to go along with it.


CPS should be called to at a minimum...to check out the place....otherwise something that can't be fixed could happen while everyone is standing around twiddling their collective thumbs.

I agree with Mr. W on how he should handle getting his child for the visit. I just disagree that the child should go back...and do not see James being "punished" for protecting his child.

James...you are getting sound legal advice from Mr. W. I will tell you I took a radically different approach that resulted in full custody. Also....many father's rights experts would suggest a more aggressive approach to get your child home. But his advice is sound...I just happen to disagree with it.

Atty has been in court all morning.

Still waiting on a call back.

Am very torn between the two advices.. I think what I will do is to have my Atty send the 50/50 demand to her lawyer.

This ought to accomplish the same sorts of things, as I figure her lawyer -is- more involved here than just signing off documents.

I agree that her paralegal friend is probably helping to run the show.. heck.. I figure her paralegal friend pretty much guided my WW right into her sons arms..

This is completely rediculous... I'm getting -very- frustrated with my lawyer at this point.. MEDC is right, it's been 20 days and we don't even have a judge yet.. it's time to get on with this.

Ok... well, lawyer decided to see me immediately when I walked into his office.

Gave him a copy of the visitation logs I've been keeping so far, and discussed with him what I want.

He is sending the message to her lawyer regarding what he will term 'expanded visitation' and we'll see just how much she's willing to give I suppose.

Also, the lawyers have settled on a judge that is not on their current panel. He says that they are both doing venue changes and striking until they get him. My lawyer is confident from his previous experiences that he will be the right judge for me.

I also got the impression that given his relationship with her lawyer's father that he's been working on diplomatically exerting his 'elder statesman' type influence to get this going. He says he understands my urgency, but this is really the best way to handle this in my state. Apparently the courts have a history of denying 50/50 visitation unless the parents actually settle on it. They like to drive towards that in settlement, but if a judge has to make a judgement he will rule in favor of one parent and against the other. The notion, my lawyer explained is that it prevents more continuing lawsuits than it causes that way, and the judges don't like seeing kids grow up in their courtrooms. Given that light.. I'm inclined to agree.

Looks like things are going to start moving just as soon as they can get this judge on a panel. Apparently our two lawyers had a conversation about it again today while they were waiting their turns in court this morning. Apparently Friday is a big court day for our town.

James,

My only comment on the legal haggling right now is that you will find that MOST of the work IS done in the hallways between the lawyers, NOT in the courtroom.

What are you plans for the weekend?

Heh.. you're absolutely right there. Add to that my lawyer has some of that 'elder statesman' influence over hers it seems. All the lawyers in this town know eachother well, and one of the reasons I picked this particular guy is because he does have a good working relationship with her lawyer. When things were going to be 'amicable' I thought it'd work to my advantage to have a cooperative lawyer as well. Now I think it'll still be advantageous as her lawyer respects my guy's judgement and has for a long time looked up to him.

Plans for the weekend: Today I'm going over to my moms house to make breakfast for her, my DD, and her stepsister (on her moms side).. biscuits and gravy, one of my specialties using some of those Budding Beef strips instead of sausage. Also making up some eggs with green peppers, onions, and cheese in. Should be a yummy breakfast. Getting ready to pack up the kids and go over there now as they get themselves out of their pj's and get cleaned up for the day.

Need to finish up my Interrogitory documentation today, and the Request for Production document gathering.. that's been rough, but I realize.. my WW came into this relationship with pretty much her daughter and the clothes on their backs.. but she's left with everything.. this material crap doesn't mean a thing to me.

Later today going to watch the Purdue(my school)vs Notre Dame (neighbors school) game with the neighbors and let the girls play with their kids for a bit. Should be a good time, the neighbor and I usually take turns on the grill and keep the Michigan Hot Dogs coming (for some reason those dogs he gets from Michigan taste -so- much better than your standard frank) and we're going to do up some ribs and chicken in the smoker.

Sunday I'm going to be packing up DSD's things as my WW has asked for -all- her things by Wednesday. I'm sure I'll trigger hardcore on that.. it kills me the thought that DSD won't be coming back.. heck.. crying right now as I think about it.. I love that little girl so much.. to even think that my WW has poisoned her to hate me now just rips me to shreds.. I have this picture of her she gave me for Fathers Day 2005.. it says on the frame 'Anyone can be a Father, but it takes someone special to be a Dad. Love DSD' I think it's probably the most special 'thing' I'll have left of her. God I love my little T-bug... I miss her so much..

*breathe.. live in the moment.. focus on now.. worry about what you can worry about..*

Ok... after that on Sunday I'm going to go hang out with some friends and play some music and watch Indy stomp Denver in the afternoon..

That's about it I think.. at least what I have planned to do.

Hope your weekend goes well.

((((Bugs))))

James:

Here comes the 2x4.

Its really great that your attorney is the "elder statesman" to your WW's.

That clubly little atmoshpere will insure that your Divorce, visitaion, and support arrangements will work out, and your fee will be minimized and every one can have drinks afterward at the club.

While you pay CS, get the every wednesday, and every other weekend visitation, lose access to your SD and feel that you have been screwed over every step of the way.

But, hey, the club never heard a voice raised in anger, did it?

You need to hire a different lawyer. One from out of your town, who has no problem making noise in the club. Because that is what you need.

Lawyer's have a reputation of being sharks, but they are trained to get to a compromise and agreement.

And that agreement is alot easier to get to if all you do is "accept" what the WW wants. And what the "state" allows.

I get hired all the time by people from out side of my town, for the specific purpose of I am out of town, and can ask difficult questions and argue the tough stuff. Because I'm not having drinks at the club afterward......

Understand the dynamics here.

Your attorney IS WORKING for you. He WORKING towards AGREEMENT. With a minimum of FUSS.

IS that what you want? IF yes, then you don't need to duck the 2x4.

IF NO, then take the 2x4 from me and start using it on your Attorney, or even better, the new one, to GET WHAT YOU WANT.

It is easier for us to sit here and TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. We are not on the ground in your shoes.

You are gettting good advice. It may seem contradictory, it might seem harsh, it migh not seem to be right in your sitch. If all you do is go to your attorney with more steel in your backbone, and with firmness in your voice, that is great.

However, you could do better.

But be strong. You DO NOT have to settle for what the "state" usually allows....

Just my .02

LG

My understanding of small town legal works is that out of town lawyers get clobbered.

Unfortunately, the small town judges are part of the small town legal club. They don't like outsiders coming in a making things difficult which is precisely what Jamesus will be doing.

I don't like this attorney sending off a letter to WW and her attorney trying to see if they will change custody right now pending a hearing.

Of course, I'm more fond of my idea...negotiate a 50-50 arrangement for now and if she won't negotiate then so be it...your fall back position is still 50-50 and you will merely take it and allow her to go nuts with the legal manuevering and what not.

There is no..."let's see what WW will give me"

As far as the Purdue thing.

I'm very sorry,

Mr. Wondering (IU grad)

I like your idea too Mr. W.. my lawyer though also likes to document. So essentially that's what we're doing here.

As far as the IU vs Purdue thing.. I suppose I can overlook that in light of the excellent advice you're giving <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LG - I appreciate your insight, as well as MEDC's and I understand the notion of being very aggressive, however I think in my situation, and having lived or been connected to this town for 31 years I'm more comfortable having someone who's swam in this pond for a while working with the judges who swim in the same waters. He's won for dads in front of the judge he and her lawyer agreed on. So he knows what this judge looks for and can help me to highlight those points. I know I've complained a lot about him so far, but with his experience in front of this judge I think I'm with the right guy. He's doing what I ask him to at this point, and I can ill afford right now to change horses. I'm going to see how this works out, and just make sure my little rubber ducks are all lined up.