my response:

WW,

Nobody is trying to lecture you, I simply tried to give you an understanding of how and why this is so difficult for me.

I wasn't aware that you were looking to have -all- of DSD's things until your email on Friday. I've been asking each time you brought it up before then to give me a list of the things she wants, or to have her help me put what she wants to take together. A box or two of things is much easier to get together in a short timespan than to go through all of her things. I've to this point honored the document you signed when you picked up your things that the children can bring and take anything of theirs that they please.

That being said, I'll get you her things as quickly as I can.

As for DSD's GM, I did talk to her briefly last night to give her an update about what was going on. She decided on her own that she wanted to speak with you, not from any encouragement from me. Their concern, and mine at this point is for the children. I'm not involving anyone in our issues that doesn't have a genuine interest in the well being of our family. I don't, and won't apologize for keeping them up to date on what is going on. You're more than welcome, and I would encourage you to do the same. They have their own problems, but they also have great concern for our family because they are a part of it and want to help us both do what is right.

My email back to you had nothing to do with anything I talked about with DSD's GM apart from my having told her about the threats made in your previous email. My mind was on the subject, so I wrote you back so that we can avoid future threats and unnecessary litigation.


Please continue to give the children my love each day and let them know that I miss them both terribly.

Not sure what to think at this point. I'm sure she's gotten the email by now.. no response yet.

Guess that's not a bad thing. So much for going into today hoping not to lurk here or get hung up on WW.

I'll try again tomorrow I guess.. only 40 minutes left for today, but I did get two bug-fixes in for programs which is good. Helped pass quite a bit of time and made some people in the shop happy.

I dunno guys, the sheer amount of venom in her emails and in her eyes when she sees me, and such.. I just don't get why she has to act like this, when she's the one victimizing her family. Of course I should probably expect her to react this way any time she needs to take responsibility for something.

How do you respond to someone who always says you're lecturing them, or being a condescending a$$.. I'm not, I'm just staying calm and cool in the face of her anger.. I'm trying to have a reasonable intelligent exchange.

When does this part of it end? At what point can I stop reminding myself that it isn't my fault.. no matter what she says, I did not choose this. I did not tear my family apart.

With a smile. Ignore her personal comments. Only answer pertinent questions. Keep your comments impersonal as to her yet allow your love for your children to shine through in your writings and your conversations (since she's obviously building a record).

I'm trying my best to do just that..

I dunno.. it's so hard to get into these emails w/o LBing.

She can build all the record she wants for DSD's things.. but she's going to get the vast majority of it tomorrow.

I do have it ready for the most part.. completely killed me to do it but I do.

This just sucks.. one day she makes me this picture about how much she loves me and will miss me... and then the next day, after a 'talk' with her mom she doesn't want to see or talk to me.. so far.. for 23 days... 8 year olds don't -do- that..

Nobody is trying to lecture you, I simply tried to give you an understanding of how and why this is so difficult for me.

I find this level of engagement very troubling, and that goes for the previous communication also.

I wouldn't trust your WW with my feelings if I were you.

I feel you are stepping into a free fire zone when you communicate with her or give her explanations, and I don't like it.

I'd rather see you detach.

GC

James,

I am SO GLAD I could not post first thing after reading that ALIEN email! I was so angry for you!

Miss Meggy gave you great advice (she's really good at it)



This is what slayed me though,


As Pep would say EGG-ZACT-LEE - 8 year olds DON'T do that. WW is slanting things as SHE sees them. This is NOT your DSD talking, it's your WW ALIEN talking. Don't buy this load of bullshite.

We can all hear the conversation WW had with DSD after overhearing her on the phone (if that part is even true).

WW "Well DD, James is taking away your brother because he is so mean and selfish. We aren't going to get to see him hardly at all. I don't know why HE is being SO MEAN".

Where are all of the wood chippers?? This makes me SO ANGRY.

It's not unusual for the WS to twist partial truths into their own alien interpretation, which is what she is doing. Accusing YOU of all of the things of which SHE is guilty of doing.

Ck out Orchids posts about Reverse Babble. You need to either NOT respond to the Bullshite or be able to babble back at her - - - but not necessarily in email. As she is "keeping a record" stick with Meggy's advice on that.

{{{James}}}

Read your last sentence.

Why are you doing that? What do you hope to accomplish?

Graycloud is right--you'll just burn yourself up doing this. You can't reason with her. You could present the best arguments in the history of the world and they won't help because she is a fogged-out zombie.

Plus, you invite her to send you her Fogspeak, which is bound to be hurtful to you. Even when you can activate your Fog-Filter and know that it's Fog talking, you still hear the hurtful stuff that WS's spew, and it still has an effect.

Every time you feel an urge to contact her, ask yourself "Why am I doing this? What do I hope to achieve? and, most importantly, Will she listen to me?"

I'm not sure where you are in terms of plans (have you consulted with the Harleys?), but this kind of engagement will eat you up.

jamesus:

It's been a few pages since I read here, but you really still do need 2 get yourself under much better control here.

gc and others are right on the money. The simple answer 2 your questions about "how come she does this?" and "how come she feels like I'm lec2ring her or being condescending?" is 2 just stop all of it, because it doesn't matter why she does what she does, or says what she says. What matters is that talking 2 her is doing you a lot more harm than it is good, and she's like a fire that gets stoked every time you engage her.

If you keep your communication 2 the absolute minimum - which should only involve contacting your kids 2 say "yo" or exchanging them per the custody plan. If you can do THOSE things via an intermediary, I think you'll be in much better shape than you are now.

You'll be able 2 really go 2 work and concentrate on work if you stop posting draft emails, selecting your favorite edits, sending them off 2 the alien and then posting your complaints that she didn't like what she read.

You need plan B. Heck, I'm not even married 2 her and I need you 2 be in plan B! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, not really, necessarily. But seriously, if you can't keep it light and on-topic (kid-logistics only) when you have contact, then don't have contact.

-ol' 2long

Yeah... I slipped out of 180 and the interim Plan B.. haven't even made it a week without contacting the alien.

Sorta funny when you're accused of having crap communication and all you want to do then is communicate. I suppose irony abounds with WS's..

I haven't talked to the Harley's yet.. I put down Surviving an Affair and haven't even gotten to His Needs Her Needs yet. I've been doing interrogitories, requests for production and reading up on the Fathers Rights book MEDC directed me to.

I think you're right though.. and starting with the exchange tomorrow night I'll be dark, cordial but not conversational.

Think I should help her get DSD's things into her car when she comes, or just stand there waiting for her to get it done?

Best laugh I've had all day.. thanks for makin a guy smile before bed.

I think you need a plan and recommend consulting the Harleys. If not through the counseling center, then call the radio show.

SDGuy.. man, you know you're my Plan B hero. I guess that I'm still acting out of fear. Fear that if I go completely dark other than to deal with kid logistics that it'll just make things worse.

In my head I know the logic behind it, and I know it's what I need to do. I'm just having a hard time holding myself back from reaching out to her.

Do, or do not, there is no try.. Heh.. funny that a muppet is going to give me the logic I need to counter the statement I was about to make.

I'm going to contain myself tonight when she comes to pick up DS and DSD's stuff. It's going to be monumentally hard but I'll do it. I'll have to find a way to be cool, but not cold.. the old me (pre marriage) would not have any problems doing this.. maybe I can channel the old bachelor tonight. He was actually a pretty swell guy.. not too trusting though. Maybe he's what I need to embrace again.

Another day at work.. going to try and get more stuff done. Getting those 2 system requests resolved yesterday really made me feel good. Here's to hoping I can ding a few more of em out today.

I'll check back once in a while.. would still like to get opinions on whether or not I should help her move the massive amount of DSD's stuff from my garage into (probably) her co-worker/enabler friend's SUV.

Not-so-Super DarkJamesus

no...do not help her move that stuff.

James,

You are right in your thoughts on going to Plan B, either do or don't, there is no "try".

Until you truly decide, one way to try to gauge what you "should" or "shouldn't" do is to think in terms of what it may cost your Love Bank to do them. Right now, no matter what you do, WS is going to find fault, so take her reaction out of the equation. You won't magically get an ephinay moment where she becomes your W again.

Deciding which Plan you are in is the key. When I was in Plan A, I prepped myself long and hard for each and every interaction with Drac. I wanted to be sure I didn't LB and I had to gauge MY ability to deal with the potentially the WORST reaction from him. If I thought that the interaction would be too painful due to his hurtful actions, I didn't interact. IF I was sure I could show Drac my best - if I could give him a glimpse of the Bugs he was missing out on, then I would interact.

Can you be Mr. Charming. Mr. Confident Guy while helping her? Can you refrain from any comments about the R? Can you act in such a way that when she leaves it will make her wonder what's gotten into you? As in "Wow, he looks so good. He was so nice, but yet so Confident. Not preaching, not clinging, not begging, not asking tons of things about the kids, not talking about how he feels, not sharing what's going on in his life, and he didn't ONCE ask about my plans or ask me to come back"

What do you think?

James...your plan right now is to get your kids back. YOU should not be having any conversations with your wife that do not involve protecting your kids. Focus on your objective.

I'm working that plan MEDC to the best of my ability and within the rules my lawyer and I have agreed to play by.

You're right.. I really shouldn't be having any conversations with my WW at all that don't have to do with scheduling with the kids, or emergencies for them.

((((((((Bugs)))))))))

Thanks for the words. I believe that I can be Mr. Charming and Mr. Confident during the necessary interaction with her tonight. I won't talk R, won't talk about feelings, won't talk about my life to her.

Guess I could help her load up the stuff, there is a lot of it and some of it is very heavy (kids books in boxes.. gotta love that) or bulky. I'd be doing it for DSD, not her.

On the other hand it'd be tempting to just hold my son in my arms and interact with him instead of her and let her handle moving the stuff. I'm sure she'd twist me not helping her into something like I'm such an [censored] for not helping her when I know she's got a dodgy back and often requires deep massage to work it out. Something I used to do for her almost every night.

I dunno.. might have to make the decision on the fly, and prepare for both eventualities. If she's going to be venomous and give me those hateful eyes, I might just let her do it herself. If she's pleasant, I'll be Mr. Great Guy.

Oh... and prepare the anti-babble..

I can see it now.. if the ice queen shows up and I don't help.

WW: Aren't you going to help me with this?
Me: (playing with son) you're right.. we should help eachother and do things together.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll get the hang of this.. just got to let it come naturally.

you should not help her in the destruction of your family. Helping her move things out of your home is helping her destroy your family James.

I agree

Don't help her. Doing so hurts YOU. This wasn't your choice and you shouldn't have to endure it just to be nice.

When is your lawyer sending that letter. There is NO reason you have to acquiesce to this imposed/dictated visitation schedule your wayward wife has set up. You should be getting 50-50 until the court decides otherwise.

If you'd sent that email last friday...you'd have your kid home with you TODAY.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - That sympathetic email I posted was not a good Plan A thing because it made you appear weak. That wasn't my purpose...I am only concerned about your custody case and trying to throw some nice words in there to get her to react (like she did) and make you appear the hurt nice guy that's been destroyed by her. I only care about your son and building your case for custody. Win that first...then hopefully the consequences of such loss will wake this woman up or not...out of your control. Sounds like Plan B will be needed soon. When is your first court date???

Haven't heard anything back on court dates from my lawyer. Last I heard from him was that he and her lawyer had agreed on a judge here locally (not in another county), and were doing change of venues and making motions until they landed him on their panel.

I have an appointment with him at 3 on Friday to go over my interrogitories and requests for production. I'm getting my list of things to ask him about as well together for that meeting.