Sounds good..your on!



Good for you. Self reflection is always the hardest part. It is always so much easier to blame everything on our WS's, but in reality we play a part also. I still have a hard time not blaming him for everything. Most of our problems are his fault...but not all of them.

I am very pleased with the way you are handling this. I would hate to see you take her back and have her do this to you all over again. I am just hoping that you get your son and life can return to some sort of normal for both of you. I think you will feel so much better once he is safe at home with you.

Keep up the support of your church family. Mine was so helpful. The support of my pastor meant the most. Still does.

Thanks you two..

GS, I'd hate to take her back and have this happen all over again too. I suppose that's where I really have to come to grips with the fact that there's nothing I can do or say at this point to change things. Like IC said.. 'You've done everything I can think of to tell you to do, and she hasn't even let you in just a little bit.'

If there's hope for a successful recovery she's going to have to come to it on her own. I'm not banking on that at this point, just looking forward to Friday and seeing how the Provisional hearing goes.

I go to meet with my lawyer tonight to discuss our strategy and what I ought to be prepared for, and expect in the hearing. That will at least give me something to work on this week instead of bouncing off the walls.

I'm doing fairly well today, but had some rough patches over the weekend. Saturday wasn't too bad, and I think I honestly laughed and enjoyed myself for the first time since all this started with DD and I out at the haunted campground for the Girl Scouts. It's a start, and since then I haven't felt the constant longing.. it's kind of weird, like you turn a corner or something. Not that I don't expect to have those moments in the future.. I think though that I'm developing tools to better handle them. God has been a big help with that.. each time I pray for comfort in times when I'm most sad, I seem to receive it.

Mass on Sunday was tough.. Father was speaking about Catholic vocations and how he had his personal crosses to bear.. anxiety about speaking in front of people etc.. and that once he faced them and gave the anxiety to God it helped him to cope and actually become a very passionate public speaker. He's actually one of the best I've had the pleasure of seeing.

He had mentioned last week when I told him about the potential pregnancy that it would be a very heavy cross to bear, and that he would pray for me. Well, this week I intended to thank him on the way out and tell him how much I appreciated knowing that he too has borne his cross and that God helped him through it.. how it gave me hope. He beat me to the punch, and as he shook my hand he pulled me into a hug and asked me how I was doing with my heavy cross. I nearly lost it right there.. he's such a wonderful man.. and to know that he thinks of me and my family, and continues to pray for us means the world to me. I told him about my outlook on things and he smiled, shook his head, and said 'It takes an amazing person to bear this cross you have.. take your strength from God and He will see you through.. regardless of the outcome."

I'm living by those words today.

Jamesus,

I am glad you are in a better place. I know how hard this is on you. What an amazingly faithful person you are to accept the things you can accept.

I so pray for you and your heart's desires.

Guided - is there a link to your story or can I ask you questions?

SG

James - I am glad you have such a compassionate pastor. It really does make all the difference. Hang in there we are all praying for you. Good luck on Friday.

S - I am not sure how to link all my threads together. If you know how please let me know and I will do it. I am posted on Recovery, GQ II, and Pregnancy/Child. I am also under the name Lostanduncertain. I changed it to GuidedCertainty awhile ago. Look them up if you care to. My most recent stuff in on Recovery under GC. Or I will link them as soon as I can and you can read it then. Just depends on how much digging you want to do.

p.s. I have not written out my entire story yet. I am not at a place yet where I want to rehash it all. I will when the time is right. Thanks for the interest.

S - You can ask all the questions you want, but go over to my thread on Recovery. It's called Another Heartache. I don't wand to TJ James's post anymore than we already have. Thanks.

TJ away.. it's not a big deal at this point and may even help me a little bit to see these answers.. especially since you're dealing with OC, and well.. if my M -does- recover it's looking like I will be too.

Ok... now a lot of you keep saying that I'm doing really good.

I guess I kind of needed that validation, that I've come a long way.

I suppose in the respect that I've picked myself up off the floor and am fighting for what is important (my son) that I'm doing better than I was at first.

I think though that I've still got a -lot- to work on when it comes to me. Without really understanding what I was doing, I tried using MB and the Plans to try and -control- a situation I really have no control over. I used prayer and the well wishes of others to encourage me and hope that because I was doing the 'right' things or taking a righteous path that things would work out well for me... and things working out well for me would mean that WW comes home and we can be a family again.

Well.. I was wrong.

WW isn't coming back, and if she does, that door isn't open. Maybe one day W will come back.. and if she does.. well, we'll worry about that later.

I need to work on me now, and you know what.. every encounter with her, email, phone, in person has been entered into by me with the goal of saving my M. I think that's probably the worst thing I could have been doing for the last two months. I've spent so much time concentrating on the A being the evil thing that has to be worked on that I haven't -really- been working on myself.

I need to learn to listen, really listen better to what people around me are saying. No more 'what if's', 'yeah but's' and such.. my uneducated opinions and reactions are what landed me in this dreck, and I've got to do what it takes to fix me before I can even start worrying about this M, or any other.

I think it's a control issue really.. not that I've ever been real assertive, and might actually be a little P/A myself.. which is a real hard thing to admit.

While it's easy to point out every little thing about my WW that she didn't do while we were together, how she's doing all of these terrible things now that we aren't, and how I'm the better person blah blah blah... it doesn't do a lick of good for fixing me, and just helps me obfuscate the problems, personality quirks, and crap that -I- need to be working on while I have this 'wonderful' life altering opportunity.

I do have a bit of a superiority complex to work on.. I think my opinions are golden and people ought to agree with them.. *shrug* Don't know why my opinion means any more than anyone elses.. but it's one of the things I need to work on. Not saying I'm not allowed to disagree.. but I need to look at my motivations for disagreeing.. is it because I want to be right or want someone else to be wrong? Or are there legitimate -reasons- for not holding the same opinion.

I was on the debate team in HS.. I like to argue.. I like to win arguments.. I need to learn to just be more open in that regard. Discuss.. don't argue.. don't -have- to be right all the time.. just be open.. someone might have a better idea.

I've gotten closer to God lately.. but I'm wondering if it wasn't just because I thought he could help me.. maybe I'm doing the same thing with my IL's... I really need to rely on God to bring me peace, not help me with my M.. while only He can reach my WW.. it's actually not up to Him to change her mind.. it's up to her, even with God's help. Fact.

Going to keep up my relationship with God though, because at the same time He can help me work on me if I'm open to that.. so I'm going to be open.. because maybe He's got a better opinion.

Honestly.. I think my wife had some pretty good reasons for being unhappy in the marriage... there are a lot of reasons she should have had to stay.. and certainly no reason worth having an 'exit' affair and putting the kids through this, but it's not mine to judge. We've got a judge on Friday who is going to determine what is in the best interest of DS, and where he's going to stay.. he's going to tell us who has to pay for what while the D goes on, and he's going to be the guy we face at the end of things to determine what happens for the rest of our lives. I'm going to have to be open to his opinion, even if I don't agree with it.. and I doubt I'll agree with everything.. that's just the way of things. Doesn't mean I'm not going to do the best I can to get my son.. the living situation he is in is a far cry from his home and the comforts of a stable environment.. the care of a parent instead of a new psudo-family.. I've got a lot to offer my boy, and I can have a lot more if I start making the personal changes I need to make in me.

I used to be the guy who would listen.. I mean really listen to my friends when they needed help.. I'm starting to get back to that, posting here to other people.. listening to a friend of mine at work who is dealing with her functioning alcoholic husband.. and I'm giving good advice, which I'm not taking myself.. maybe a need to be right there too.. which is satisfied so I don't need to get right with me? Feh.. I'm just fooling myself with that line of thinking. I -really- need to work on myself.

Wish I'd gotten to this point 2 months ago.. I might have had a shot at saving my M. Now.. I've got to face reality, she's pregnant.. probably means she's going to try to marry this guy.. she's happy with him, or at least believes she is.. and we choose to be happy don't we? So maybe she really is happy.. good for her. Unfortunately I don't believe it's good for the kids.. and since my DS is the only one of those two I can worry about.. I've got to make the hard decision to fight a woman I love for the parental rights to a boy I know that we both love. It's a no win situation, DS loses either way.. so do WW, and I.. There's going to be nothing to save of this marriage after Friday I don't think... the laundry will be hung out in public.. it's not pretty stuff.. but I've got until then to try and figure out how to do it in a non-argumentative way, and try to be respectful throughout.. but yet still get my son at the end of the day. I'm sure there's a way to do that... just got to figure out how to navigate those waters.

I've given my lawyer all the information.. he's going to decide what is best to use and what isn't. He seems to think that the living situation and how rediculous it is will probably be enough on its own to award me temporary custody. I'm starting to believe that.. he says that this judge is a very traditional family values guy and a lot of the things that she's been doing won't sit well with him.

He does say however that I'm hurting my chances by continuing to try and reconcile with her.. that it says I don't think she's -too- bad of a person if I still want to be married to her. Well.. all that's stopping now.

I think though my 'plan' is due for another change. I've been unable to bring myself to speak to her or look at her directly on the exchanges.. that's going to have to change. I'm going to open the door for conversation by asking about her, how work is going, how DSD has been in school and gymnastics.. if she's not inclined to talk I'll just drop the issue and keep on keepin on.

I'm actually finding myself content with the situation as it is.. finding ways to be happy and even look forward to the quiet nights at home where I can sit back and have a beer and zone out to the TV. Been going to bed earlier and that's made a -lot- of difference.. I'm not quite as irritable when I'm not tired all the time. Imagine that???

I'm really going to enter the next phase.. work on me.. work on my lethargy.. work on my 'need' to be in control and really let God take over and show me the way. I know I get to choose whether or not to follow.. and that choice is harder some times than others.. but I'm going to try to be OPEN to what the outside influences in my life are saying.

No more denial for Jamesus.. this is the situation that IS.. it's not what I wanted for my life or for my kids, but it is what it is. If I don't embrace NOW.. then any goals and hopes I have for the future are placed on sandy foundations.

Right now, I'm getting a divorce. I don't want to, but I am.

Right now, my son needs me to fight for him.

Right now, DD12 needs me to step up my role as a father for her too.

Right now, WW is happy.. and I should be happy for her, even if I don't agree with it. Because ultimately, I really want her to be happy.

Right now, Wonderboy is a piece of ****** for helping a woman leave her family instead of trying to get her husband right and make a marriage work.. his family too.. but WW hasn't dealt with her issues either.. the karma truck has a new address on it's manefest.

Right now, I've been trying to control the situation.. I need to figure out what it really means to let go of my need to control and be right.. and just be open to all the information to make a good decision. Then I've got to live with the reprecussions of that decision whether it was the right one or not.

Right now, I have to realize that I can't -fix- this marriage.. I can only be the kind of guy any woman would want to marry. Not just because I've got great kids, a good job, a nice house.. but because I'm honest, open, caring, and strong... well, I will be once Jamesus 2.0 comes out of development. I used to be that guy.. not sure what happened to him.. too many bugs trying to improve the programming through P/A behavior in the M, and a conflict avoider P/A spouse enabling me, and me her.

Right now, I feel really good about myself and who I want to be.

Right now, I feel fortunate to have the opportunity to fix me.

Right now, I'm still sad that it's probably too late for WW.

Right now, I'm not going to worry about that.. it's not important right now. DS, DD, and I are what is important.. I've got a lot of work to do for all of us.. especially in improving me, so that I can better enrich the lives of the other two.

Right now, I've got to get back to work.

Right now, I appreciate everyone's help.. but stop enabling me.. I need some kicks and 2X4's.. and yeah, occasional cheerleading.. but not when I'm playing up my victim role. I'm just as responsible as she is for the breakdown of our M.. The A is her way out.. and while we can agree all day long it isn't the right way out.. she's the one who has to deal with that, not me... not right now anyway.

My love and prayers to all of my friends here.
J

wrong thinking James.



yes, james it is yours to judge.




yep




not even close james.

>>>>I'm starting to get back to that, posting here to other people.. listening to a friend of mine at work who is dealing with her functioning alcoholic husband>>>

I'm no expert...but this seems WRONG! Stop engaging in confidential talk of a married woman. And until you are divorced ANY woman.

MEDC is right on with his post above!

I know.. and I'm watching out closely for any issues there. Her and her husband have been very good friends to me throughout all of this, and the things I've talked about with her aren't 'intimate' problems with their M.. simply helping her to help him deal with his addictions.

Not trying to justify anything here.. and I know the dangers, but there's absolutely no opening there for anything improper to occur... I'll keep my guard up though and consider what you're saying.

It does seem as though you are working on yourself which is always good. I too have a problem with thinking my way is the only way -- my H responds with AO instead of finding someone else.

Ok, maybe I shouldn't be happy for her that she's found her happiness in the arms of some other dude.. and I wish like heck that she'd come home and try with me. Where does that get me though? Just going around in circles with what if's and yeah but's? It just distracts me from working on the things I need to work on.. which was the point of my post. Not acknowledging that she -is- happy with him is only going to prevent me accepting what's going on here. If she's pregnant.. she's going to try a long term thing with him. She's already indicated as much to the kids.. how do you fight that? What is there that I could possibly do to change that other than work on improving me? I've given her every reason I can think of to come home.. now the delivery probably prevented the message from getting through.. but it won't do any good to cover the same ground over again.. and it will just push her away.. I've got to deal with my baggage now.



Her opinion on this is that she was done with the marriage before she took up with him. In her mind she gives the M no hope of ever recovering. Maybe you're right.. it is mine as her husband to judge the wrongness of how she's gone about it.. but being judgemental isn't going to do me any good right now is it?





Glad you're with me there.. they are every reason to work on me, and I know that.



Actually very close.. if I had been able to open my eyes sooner, and see the things I was doing that harmed my M and let the needs of the woman I loved so dearly go unmet.. my W wouldn't have given up on the M, and my kids wouldn't be in this mess. That's not saying my W couldn't have been more helpful in identifying her needs, expressing herself to me in a meaningful way, or being honest and open about her feelings, her history, and giving the M every effort it deserved.. but I can't deal with that crap.. I can only deal with the things I could have done better.

Your WW is only 27 yo and yet has been married twice, has two kids by two dif guys and possibly another on the way by a third.

She has an inability to look at the big picture, to own up to her vows and responsibilities. Basically when things get tough, as they do in ALL marriages, she leaves.

It is good to look at things you have or haven't done lest you repeat them, but seriously James your marriage wasn't long enough in duration for what would apply in longterm marriage to apply in yours.

Yours is a case of character issues in your WW. She probably will not change at least not in time for her to have a chance with you. Once this is all said and done, I doubt very seriously that you would have the slightest bit of interest in taking up with her again. Especially if you get custody and your children are doing well. Meaning most of what you are feeling is from attachment. Looking at it from this perspective may help you to not hurt so bad.

I mean we see in long term marriages what you are saying may be true, that one spouse was very much absent from the marriage, the needs of the other weren't getting met for a long period of time and they "accidently" fell into an affair. It doesn't excuse it but it does make it a little bit easier to understand.

I don't see that as the case here. Don't be too hard on yourself. It wasn't your fault. It's just the way she is.

Good point Weaver.

Jamesus, to beat yourself up and punish yourself with the "What-ifs" is very counterproductive. Everything happens for a reason when you look under the eyes of God. We dont always know or understand, but there is a reason. Plus he will only give you as much as he knows you can handle.

MB is a site for people to learn and rebuild their marriages, but it doesn't happen all of the time.

You can reverse the hands of time all day long and play the what-if game. In the end you will loose because you will find some reason to blame yourself. The ONLY person that can change her is HER.

I feel like a hipocrit when I say this, but really try to focus on yourself and your son and realize that in the long run 5, 10 or even 20 years, she may wake up and realize what she lost in you and the family that you provided.

But then again, maybe she will never realize the irresponsibility of her actions.


Thats life.

Best to you my friend

Weaver..

I have to acknowledge a very deep seated fear that you are probably right on the money here.. on all counts.

I'm also afraid that by accepting that viewpoint, that I will focus on her character issues and miss an opportunity to do some good self evaluation in the process.

I know there were mistakes I made in the M.. and maybe if it really is character issues with my W, nothing I could have done short of loving her perfectly the way she wants to be loved would have worked.. and she'll never find someone like that. That doesn't mean though that there isn't room for me to grow here too.. at least to learn what I need to watch out for in myself.. and especially what to watch out for in a potential W.

I'm also afraid that you're probably more right than I'd like you to be about what my feelings on taking her back would be if I do get custody of DS.. Just like her being preggo.. it's something I myself predicted in passing several times at the beginning of all of this... I even have about 8 pages in my journal about how I couldn't take the 'risk' if I did get my son.

Don't know where I read this... but I liked it:

God doesn't give us more than we can handle.. I just wish He didn't trust me so dang much.

Exactly. I agree. For me, I had some major work and changes to do on myself and one of the things I had to learn was how to make better choices.

And there were things I had to look at where I failed, even though he was a serial cheater/con man, my reactionary behavior was less than admirable.

Maybe you are correct in making sure you are not only focusing on her character issues because that would negate any responsibility and chances to grow and learn, also would put you in a non productive victim mentality. However, you can't ignore that either.

They say that in times of great pain and loss, we have the most opportunity for growth. Great creation often comes from this. Sometimes being brought to our knees is necessary. For me it was.

I still wish like h*ll, children weren't involved though. I hate to see kids go through this. All kids diserve an intact family. I hate that we have failed in this. Regardless of who is to blame, or who is at majority of fault, they lose. But then again, my DD is thriving, but we sure did go through some tough times.

With you as a dad, yours will too James. Take comfort in that, if nothing else. My dd has a great dad, regardless of what she doesn't have, and it has made the difference.

James - I was so pleased to read your post about all of your realizations. I also have a problem with always needing to be right. It caused alot of problems in my marriage and is still something I struggle with on a daily basis. I still have a tendency to belittle my H's opinion. Especially where our children are concerned.

That you have come to know and understand that side of you is a big step forward. I had to realize that I couldn't fix my H. I tried so hard and still find myself doing it now. It's just that now I am aware of that part of myself. I am a leader and always have been. I am smart and I know it (MEDC is laughing right now).

All my life I did what was expected of me. I graduated high school with Honor and a 4.0..and college also. I was the leader in everything and for a man to expect me to follow him was unthinkable to me. I struggle with this all the time. I have a very hard time being a submissive wife. I am working on it, but it is a slow process. I now know that I made him feel like a child instead of a man.

The person that mattered most..I made feel so small. I was crushed when I realized it. Now, I am also working on the kinks in my character. Trying my best to be the wife and mother that God wants me to be. I will get there. Not only did my H have to rewire himself..but I did also. We are both finding it difficult.

Hats off to you and the progress you have made. At this point it is your wifes loss. You son is a very lucky little boy.