If there ever was a time when this question applies, it's now, in response 2 your post above.:

What would you do if you weren't afraid?

Think about it.
-ol' 2long

What would I do if I weren't afraid?

Well.. I think I'm doing what I would do if I weren't afraid. I'm fighting for my son and pretty much giving up on my wife. It scares the -******- out of me 2long.. to actually look forward to a life without the woman I love so much.

To know that the wife I knew for 4 years.. who may not have been perfect, or even close.. but was the woman I pledged my life to.. will never be able to forgive me for what I have to do to protect my son.. well.. it's hard.. because I -know- one day she will look back and see that the M wasn't -that- bad.. matter of fact we did pretty good.

We'll see how it plays.. I still have until Friday to figure out how I'm going to put things to the court, and I'm going to think very hard about what points I want to get across and stick to those alone.

I can't be afraid on the stand.. and I won't allow myself to be afraid of the answers I have to give. I didn't choose this course, I didn't want to walk this path.. but it's the one I have in front of me.

Jamesus:

Fighting for your son is good, so long as it's a just fight. I don't mean that you're not doing right, just that it might be possible 2 let vindictiveness creep in if you're not vigilant with your own emotions.

Giving up on your W isn't right, though. Letting go, which might sound similar but isn't, is right. It's letting go of the attachment - the need 2 control other peoples' outcomes (in this case your W's decisions, in the long term).

Letting go of an unhealthy attachment is a liberation, whereas giving up sounds fatalistic.

I believe it was Steve Harley himself who said that affairs don't happen because of unmet needs. They happen because the WS doesn't protect the marriage, or themselves, from their own weaknesses.

No marriage is perfect. No spouse couldn't do something better. And no affair started because of flaws in the marriage. ...makes a hella van excuse, though!

-ol' 2long

I'm not sure I know what the difference is right now, unfortunately.

I don't see my wife in her anymore, not even a little bit.

Maybe I'm just done looking for her.. maybe Weaver really is right and this is just how she is.

If so.. maybe giving up on her is the thing to do. I don't have a choice but to let go.. anything else is extremely unhealthy for me.

I'm not vindictive.. I've examined my motives for getting my son home.. and it isn't about being vindictive.. it isn't about money.. it's about protecting him from living this ****** over and over again and letting -that- be the foundation of his life.

and that, my friend, is what true parenting is all about.

Struggling today already..

The daily mass readings yesterday were about hope and spoke to reconciliation.

I feel hopeless though.. I'm very concerned about what I will feel if I don't get primary custody of DS on Friday.

Plus I got an email from SIL last night.. basically telling me that there's no hope and that she can "get along" with her sister so long as they don't talk about me.

She says she doesn't condone what's happening, but she's starting to think that reconciliation isn't for the best. Didn't say why.. didn't really elaborate.. was actually kind of evasive in the email.. but *sigh* I'm kind of feeling abandoned by them as well now.. I guess I sort of knew it would happen eventually.. I'd just hoped that as strongly as they seemed convicted about things, that there would be more of an effort.. maybe there was.. maybe there's a lot there that I don't know..

*sigh* let go James... let go..

Called to talk to DS last night.. and he didn't say anything on the phone.. was just crying. WW got on the phone and I asked what was wrong.. she said he was just tired.

I asked her how she was, and she said she was fine. Asked how DSD was doing in school, and if she got her grade card yet.. she said she had, and DSD was 1 grade away from the honor roll. I asked her to please tell DSD that I was very proud of her.. and asked how DSD was doing in gymnastics.. WW said that she was just about to pass level 1, which is quite an accomplishment for her, so I asked her to let her know I was very proud of her for that too. Had her give DS and DSD my love.. and then hung up.

I felt pretty good about the conversation.. but it really wasn't a plan B thing. Maybe it still falls under the modified Plan B.. every interaction has been confrontational since all this started.. maybe if I can just avoid talking R and the A and the D I can start getting through the wall a little bit.. maybe we can "get along" like her and her sister do by avoiding to directly tackle the problem.. maybe if I can prove myself able to be someone she can feel safe talking to again.. there might be a better chance of recovery down the road.

Not saying the plans don't work, or that my situation is 'special'.. but my situation is -definitely- messed up right now, and I've done a terrible Plan B and Plan A so far.. why screw that up now right? If it's a character thing with WW.. maybe I need to take a different approach.

I doubt there's much of a chance of reconciliation anyhow for now, while she's with him, and in the living situation she's in. If she's preggo, and engaged.. then I need to change tactics anyway I think.

I dunno guys.. thoughts, suggestions.. I'm not always right anymore.. I'm open to input.

James,

I think it's pretty normal to have the doubts about which Plan may or may not be right for our own situation at any given time - - -usually when we feel nothing is "working" is when we feel the 'need' to DO something Different.

I am unsure what kind of advice to give you right now, as with the possible OC situation, it does give a bit of a different spin to things. However, I think your previous stance of making DS #1 priortiy is the only way to go. You have your hearing on Friday and that is enough to be occupied with for right now.

Don't focus too much on the IL's. While they know what she is doing/has done isn't right, she is still family to them. Most folks IRL are waaay ahead of everyone here at MB to join the "let it go and give up" camp. Not unusual. Disappointing, yes, but not unusual.

What are you going to do for YOU today? What is DD going to be for Halloween?
{{James}}

You're right.. I need to focus on Friday.

It was -really- good to hear her voice yesterday though.. I've missed the soft tones and pitch.. there was a softness in her voice last night that I haven't heard in two months.. it tugged at my heart a little bit and I guess I'm still reacting.

I'm not so sure if there's a need to -do- something here so much. Having done some pretty critical self analysis in the last few days.. there's a part of me that just wants to take her hand, look her in the eye and genuinely apologize to her for the way I made her feel in the M.. for the way I've reacted to her leaving these past two months.. in hopes that it might end some of this powerstruggling and standoffish behavior.. maybe even let her see that I am safe to talk to and can be open to her feelings and thoughts.

I think it'll have to wait until after Friday though... you're probably right about that.

As for tonight, DD is going as a 'goth princess', and DS will be going as Mater from Cars.. he's got the -cutest- little outfit, and a ballcap that rocks. I'm looking forward to traipsing around the neighborhood with the kids tonight. Oddly not looking forward to encountering WW on the exchange though. I'm almost afraid after the brief conversation last night that I'll be expecting more of the same tonight.. and I don't want to get my hopes up that the walls are starting to come down.

It's going to be a rough night.. we've done the Halloween thing as a family the last 4 years.. and it was something we both really looked forward to doing together.. I know you know what I mean having read your sitch.

Ahh well.. back to work.. tough project on a deadline.

I just saw the sign-off quote of "Bugsmom" in the post above and it was the first time I laughed since D-Day. I live and work in a sea of stupidity and that line will help me a lot.

Yep.. it's a good quote.

I think my mom has also said something along those lines.. but it wasn't quite so nice in regards to WW.

Oh, James. As much as I want to be behind you 100% in whatever you decide to do, I hate to see you get your hopes up again. You have come so far. I understand the need to see someone in our WS's that simply isn't there. I hate to see you make the same mistake that I possibly did.

I don't think you fully comprehend the impact an OC has on you. Pregnancy isn't the same as a living breathing child. During pregnancy it isn't real, it isn't as hurtful because you are only seeing your wife. When that child gets here it becomes a manifestation of all you hate. You look at this innocent little life and hate it beyond all thought possible. It defies reason. Now not everyone feels that way, but I did. It took me along time to be where I am now and that is simply to be able to touch her.

It made me hate my H all over again. Every time he played with her I wanted to scream. I hated the time he gave to her and took away from my kids. She is 14 months old now and I am just now able to hold her. I feel nothing for her..not hate, not love...nothing. I am willing to accept this child into my home to protect her from a drug addictive and abusive mother, but to love her is something entirely different. I don't know if that will ever come. They tell me it will, but I will have to see. I still hate that she was even born, but I have come to see that God has a purpose for her and it isn't for me to say that he is wrong. Where the OC is concerned I have given the situation completely over to God. If she is meant to be with us..she will be and if not then she won't.

The attitude in which I deal with her is up to me. It is another thing that I am working on. For right now it is easy to ignore the whole thing because we haven't seen her in months. I KNOW that no contact with her is what is best for me, but it isn't what is best for her. She is innocent in all of this and I am chosing to put God's will before my own.

The moral to this story is that I want you to think long and hard about all that you face if you accept her back into your life full time. I am by no means against reconcilliation if she proves that she is willing to put forth the effort. I will be happy for you and wish you both the best, but I never want you to say that no one told you how you could possibly feel. With a child there it is much harder to get over those feelings of pain and resentment because there is living, breathing proof infront of your face all the time. You will never get rid of the OM because you will have his child in your home. He will always be there and you will always have to deal with this family you dislike and are trying to get your son from. How would you feel sending a child you have come to love(and you will love that child in time)into that situation you are fighting so hard against now.

Of course you could get lucky and he will just drop off the planet and never bother either of you again, but those chances are slim.

I will support you in whatever you decide to do regarding your wife. Just be on your guard until after the court hearing on Friday. That may change everything. If she is still softening after you have your son..she may be coming to reality or she may just be trying to manipulate you into getting her son back. Don't discount the idea that you are a much more appealing meal ticket and parent to this future baby than the actual father. At this point to underestimate her would be a grave mistake.

Still praying for you and for continued guidance.

Oh wow... oh... oh wow..

Um.. I'm going to have to think about that. I dunno.. I don't get the impression that's where she's going here... but I have to wonder if there isn't something of that thought process at work.

I was thinking she'd go the complete opposite way and imagine me -never- being able to take her back if there was a child of his involved.. that it -seals the deal-..

I wonder if it doesn't.. you've given me a lot to chew on.. a lot to pray about.

OC definitely makes the situation much more complicated.. but I'll know more on Friday how she's playing this.

GC.. haven't really had much of a chance to sit and think about what you've written yet. I -promise- I'm going to give that a lot of thought.. probably going to be after this weekend though before I can allow myself to really go there. I promise I'll get back to you with my thoughts on that though.

The exchange tonight went very well.. I looked -really- good.. smelled really good.. DS had a full bag of candy, a great outfit that I sent home with him to go with the Cars themed room she's putting together for him.. smiled to her when I opened the door, and asked how she was.. said she was doing 'ok'. Offered her to come in from the wind and the chill outside while I got DS's coat on.. and asked what DSD did for Halloween... she said DSD didn't do Halloween this year.. they did a basket thing but no trick or treating.

DS and DD made out like bandits.. two full bags of candy each.. and we had a -blast-. I didn't say anything about it though.. sent one of the bags home with DS and told WW there was a little bag in there that mom put together for DSD.

She wasn't defensive tonight.. still seemed to have softened.. I think so long as I don't push the relationship or the affair or the divorce button she just might let down some of the defenses. I have a feeling it bothered her a little not going trick or treating with us tonight.. was something we both enjoyed doing with the kids.. I'm allowing myself for the moment to hope that as Thanksgiving and Christmas come around.. things might weigh a bit heavier on her. I did find it odd though that as DS made it to her coworker friend's car, she actually looked apologetic that our 'conversation' was cut short and she had to go get DS in the car.. I just smiled and called out an 'I love you, see you on Friday little man!' to DS.. and he blew me a kiss... My heart soared. I locked up and left to make a quick run out.. they were still in the drive when the garage door opened.

I almost wonder if I won't have a better shot -after- the divorce is final.. I don't know.. I've also got a feeling that the day after the final divorce she's probably going to be in at the JoP with Wonderboy..

Bah.. can't think like that.. got to keep doing -my- plan.


I'm doing really good tonight.. keeping my focus on Friday.

Keep me in your prayers guys.

James,

Glad you & the kids had fun last night! Hope you took some pictures!

Good job on the exchange,,,,,,,,,,,,,the hard part is trying not to read too much into or out of it, isn't it?

about this -



Egg-Zact-Lee - - Don't go there, because you are not there yet. Keep your focus on these next 2 days.

Have a good one today!

Hehe.. it's almost funny how we're giving eachother the same advice for the most part.

Yes.. the hardest part is not reading too much into -anything- she does or says.

It's especially hard when you -recognize- the looks.. the way she talks.. her body language.. and it all jumps out at you because she -hasn't- been putting out those signals for 2 months..

Guys will be able to relate to this maybe a little better than women.. and now all you MB gals, don't gang up on me, I'm pulling this from almost 10 years ago ok? I'm not -that- guy anymore... Guys, and forgive me for opening up the secret playbook... but when we were young and trolling for tail at the local watering holes, we looked for certain signals.. body language.. the way she looked and talked to you.. even down to the way she drank, or turned towards you rather than just sitting beside you.. subtle non-verbal cues that said she was interested, or not interested.

Well.. lately I've been getting the non-verbals from WW..

Now like GuidedCertainty said.. it might -not- be in my best interest to get my hopes up and look towards taking her back. That's an evaluation I figure I've got some time to make. I'm not ready to have her back until I'm done working on my issues anyhow.

But it's sure hard to ignore the signals when you haven't seen them in a few months..

I can't deny that I still love her and care about her despite her actions and decisions.. there's a fence between my naturally green green grass and Wonderboy's plastic welcome mat grass.. If she wants to sit on it for now, it's at least better than where I was.. and I can Plan A her when I see her, and Plan B her the rest of the time. Not sure if that works or not.. but I'm going to give it a try.

Not going to continually worry about it though, got lots of work to do at work, and for court Friday.. Just decided to get all of it out here, so I can put it to bed in my mind and go on..

I'll welcome thoughts and opinions.. and yeah, I know I'm a fool for her. But what can I do.. I married her out of love, and I made the choice to love her even through the A.. it's the same bad decision.. it just has more consequences than initially thought. Guided.. that's the starting point of my considerations.. not going to let myself get much farther than that at this point though. I'll get back to it after the weekend.

I've been reading through your thread all morning and just wanted to say Well done for being so strong. It may not feel like you are sometimes. x

Thanks C70.. I wish I could say I felt strong.

I certainly feel stronger than I was when I first got here, by leaps and bounds.. so there is that. Looks like you reged yesterday. I highly recommend getting a thread started about your sitch if you haven't already (haven't had a chance to look at work).. there are some -great- people on these boards who can give you excellent advice and support if that's what you're looking for.

In two short months I've come a long way, and I'm pretty proud of myself for that. But I've got a long way to go too, I'm still very new at this game, and am a pretty good example of how to continually screw things up, so don't go reading too much into my thread unless you want a few things to watch out for and not to do.

I'm not following the plans as they are written, probably to my own detrement.. so maybe I haven't gotten past the notion that my situation is 'special'.. I know in my head it isn't. There are just certain things I need to be careful of, like how a judge would interpret a Plan B letter, or if I even need to be in Plan B right now... see how uncertain I am?

One thing I've seen though some people do is to Plan A the spouse, and Plan B the wayward.. I think that's where I'm at... and it might be right for my sitch right now as Harley told me to do a modified Plan B. I've been kind of forming up the boundaries of that plan as I go, which isn't what you're supposed to do.. but that's what I've done, and I think I've created some pretty good ones in the process.

Like I said though, don't use me as a -good- example.. see what I'm going through and see what happens when you don't follow the plans from the jump.

Like they say in other 'support' programs: The program works if you work the program.

I'm Jamesus
And I am powerless

James - Take all the time you think neccessary. You have plenty of time like you said. There is no need to be rushing into anything. I am glad that you are still going to try to work on yourself before coming to any decisions about your wife. Very good idea. After all why should she change into who you need her to be if you can't do the same for her.

I am sorry that I always seem to be giving you the darker side so to say. I just want to make sure that you can make the best informed decision possible. I am by no means an expert, but I am just trying to tell you how I might think in her shoes. Friday will tell you alot about how she is really feeling. I almost feel like I am going to court instead of you. I am kinda nervous for you. What time is the hearing? I am sure hoping the best for you.

Grounded..you are grounded. Powerless? Are you kidding me? Powerless..hmmmm. Well, in some aspects I supose that is true. I would hardly consider you powerless as a whole, however. Powerless is giving up and playing dead. You have not done this. We all have the power to be exactly who and what we want to be. To control our lives and situations. Haven't you done this?

At this point the only thing you are powerless about is your wife. You have the power to -

Change your life and make it better. Be the man, husband, and father that God always meant for you to be.

To change your son's life and make it better. Even if you fail in getting him..he will know that you fought hard for him and that will mean the world to him.

To lend your wisdom and change the course of someone else's life. Did you ever stop and think that God put you here for the express reason to help someone else? How selfish of us to believe that this is all about us.

You are powerless to stop your wife from self destruction.

You are powerless to make her realize what she is doing to her children.

You are powerless to save DSD from all of this.

You are powerless to stop all the pain she is causing.

What makes you think God doesn't feel the same? Do you honestly think he sits up there and enjoy's us hurting. When your son is hurt do you just sit there and smile. No. You hurt with him, you comfort him, but you are powerless to stop his pain. But that pain comes with a lesson. What lesson has your pain taught you?

Powerless, James? I think not!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This is really what I was referring to.. I did kinda need to hear what you said, so thank you GC..

Court is at 2:00 tomorrow.. going to be at work until lunchtime/noon, don't know how productive that'll be, but I'm going to be here... then go home, get into the suit and tie, and take my happy tush to court.

Stopping by the lawyers office tonight after work with pictures of me doing stuff with the kids, pictures of his room, our house etc.. lawyer said the judge likes to see that kind of stuff.

Going to also drop off the updated parental responsibility file, and visitation/phone call log.. there's some new stuff in there he doesn't have.. going to need it for prep anyhow I imagine.