Oh you bet your a$$ I'm there to support FIL and SIL..

They are now suffering her barbs and jabs because they are standing for their convictions.. They have even told her that they aren't taking sides.. they just want what is best for her and our kids..

I'll support them for that any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

They are people of conviction and character.. I'd be dishonest if I did not get behind that.. that's all and more I could ever ask for from -anyone-.

Good thing, James and I wouldn't expect any less from you. Good to side with good rather than alien!

Well James,

Looks my relationship is toast for now. We had a terrible phone call and she wants to meet to give me the check and move on.

I'm not sure if I'll just tell her to mail the check or show up on Saturday and just take the check. Looks like she jsut weant to see me get emotional and get closure.

Sounds like it man.. I'm very sorry for what you're going through, and I know I speak for many people here who have long enjoyed your contributions that we're here for you.

I think the choice of whether to mail or do it face to face is up to you.. and I would say mail unless you can be assured that you will maintain total control in the face of this.

Look man.. and I hate to put it this way, but rebuilding a relationship after infidelity is hard enough -with- children involved, and with a lifetime commitment having been made. Without those two ties in place for you.. it's not hard for her to walk away from it.. I know that sounds harsh, and I don't intend it to.. but I want to be honest with you.

Seriously man.. if I had not swore before God and our families and our children to spend the rest of my life with my wife.. if we did not have children together, and given so much of ourselves to our marriage and family.. it wouldn't be worth the fight for me either.

I hope and pray that you get to a place, through God to find peace with the situation, and begin to heal from this. You've got a lot to be thankful for, and you've -learned- so much just being here.. I can tell in the way you post to help me out.. you're a better man as a result of this.

Well.. no news is good news I suppose today.

DS was talking about how they were shopping for DSD, CoWorker's husband, and Wonderboy.. Ahh.. Christmas.

I felt a little 'twinge' that Wonderboy was going to be getting presents from my wife and I likely won't.. but it passed quicker than I initially thought it would.

Still debating on whether or not to get her something.. what would be appropriate? Do I shop for my wife? Or do I just shop for a present to be 'nice'? Do I get her anything at all? I've been considering a lump of coal but.. I imagine it'd be quite the lovebuster.

Going to work on making Christmas as magical and wonderful as possible for DD and DS this year.. the house is decked out.. we're going to have Christmas Eve with my family, Christmas morning at my house, and the day after Christmas with the IL's.. and he'll spend all that time with me and DD.. which will be a blessing.

I think after the New Years switch I'll be doing the PBL.. I suppose I should start drafting it now, figuring out how best to put things... how to safely navigate the issues.

I don't think I can do the intermediary portion though.. that's the part I'm struggling with. I can ask her to stop calling me unless it is an absolute emergency.. email to make arrangements for DS and DSD, and update me on things I need to know about. Other than that.. I don't want to hear from her so long as she intends to continue to be the type of person who would destroy her marriage, her children, and herself and her family this way. I will continue to have nothing more to do with her other than what is necessary for DS to have two parents active in his life, until she is ready to commit to truly working and trying in a relationship with me, has severed her ties to Wonderboy and his family, and is willing to go to counseling with the lady from the Church or with the Harleys.

I will no longer allow myself to ride the rollercoaster, and be continually disrespected in the ways she is choosing to behave towards me, her family, and our children. I don't need that drama in my life.. I'm better off without it.. I'll deal with things from my wife, but I have no tolerance for this kind of crap from Wonderboy's girlfriend.

Don't buy anything.
Don't do anything...including a PBL without the approval of your attorney.

Ditto this, but I'll take it one step further and say do not do any PBL until after custody has been determined. You will lesson your chances of even getting 50/50 if you can not coparent with her. In my co-parenting custody agreement we HAVE to be able to put our DD first in regards to communication. It has to be open/freguent/harmonious. This was a strict order from the judge who granted it to my ex.

We repsect each others current spouses and do not go over board with frequent as his current wife is uncomfortable with too much communication, but I know our judge takes this co-parenting thing very seriously in 50/50 judgements.

to 411, I read your last post and I just wanted to say hang in there, be strong and choose happiness. Okay? I don't want your grief to cause this holiday season to be hard on you. It will be, but "choosing joy" instead of pain is a foot in the right direction.

I'd probably have her send the check in the mail, to not cause myself further pain.

(((411)))

Thanks for the advice MEDC..

That's the part I'm struggling with.. how to do, or if to do a PBL where it won't hurt me legally... If the thought is that I can't send a PBL without it hurting me legally, then I'm stuck in my Plan A until the D is final.

Which is OK I guess.. I'm a big boy and can insulate myself even in Plan A from the madness... particularly since I'm in Plan A from a distance.. Maybe it's a blessing too.. maybe the longer I can 'be nice'.. the more effective Plan B will be.. even if it's after the legal D.

I guess I just need to get some space between me and the situation.. and I'm capable of making that space and still be in Plan A..

Guess it's just a rough time of year for it.. I'll be talking to IC on Thursday.. might help to get it out there.

You're probably right on the present thing too... I am consoling myself though that the 'extra' money she's got right now is coming from me.. and that's what's going to buy presents for my kids.. trying not to think that it may also be going to Wonderboy and his family.. but so be it.. WW knows where it's coming from... if it even occurs to her.

I keep praying that God shows her mirrors and weighs on her every day of this season.

I'm going shopping tonight.. foraying into the madhouse world of the mall and stores.. wish me luck, hopefully I'll come out alive at the end of it all.

Thanks to you too Weaver/JJ.. I suppose you guys are probably right.. it takes Plan B pretty much off the table until the end of the D..

Which probably means I'm going to be in Plan A for too long.

I'll put my faith in God though.. and Plan A my [censored] off until then. He will give me the strength and love to continue if He means for me to. I believe He does.. the messages I have received in my daily devotionals and in the mass readings for the day tell me that He is at work and I am to wait for the Lord. So I shall.

I'm still struggling with patience.. but have managed to remain calm and serene.. managed to find joy in things again.. managed to start interacting with people and be able to spend an evening with friends without going on and on about my sitch.. all positives.. all signs pointing towards personal healing.

I'm encouraged by that at least. Starting to become more and more productive in and out of work.. starting to be able to -do- things for and around the house again to keep my environment up to my standards. Still have the dog to clean up after.. so that much keeps me busy.. especially with him shedding like mad all the time and tracking mud and gunk in the kitchen.. he's a good dog though, and is starting to lose some of his 'puppy'.. he's been a good friend through all this and gives me someone at least to pour my affection on when DD is off doing her thing.

James, THAT'S WONDERFUL progress...being able to visit and no focus on your stuff, enjoy being and the awareness that you have come to that point!

Did you pat yourself on the back for that one?

As far as the patience, it's progress not perfection...I know that you know this...I just mentioned in my thread this morning to you how I still struggle with this...it's a constant reminder that God's time is better than mine!

I've always been a here and now person, never one to postpone things...b/c I will forget and it will nto get done...prior to MB, I was always in a rush and I was asked one day "What's a rush ever got you?"

well, the answer was pretty clear, nothing but trouble but I lived in reaction to most things...but today's it's easier and I have faith that it will get easier for you also...

As far as your dog, I JUST noticed the other day that Gogo is losing alot of her hair right now...I thought it was a funny time of the year to be shedding...good to know it's not just her right now...I was shocked at the amount of hair I swept up Sunday...AMAZING!!! And I'm like you, I love her b/c of her company when the boys are not home!!!

have a bless day...take care!

James, just because Plan B is really not an option for you right now...it does not mean you need to be in Plan A. Your situation is not one that can be helped by the Harley's methods IMHO. Since children are involved and they are in fact living with the OM, all bets are off. The only "Plan" you should be in is the one outlined by a competent attorney. Anything outside of that has the potential to either blow up in your face or cause you undue pain.

((((Rin))))

Thanks for posting that.. yeah.. God's timing is way way way better than mine. I keep thinking to myself that if God was done working on me.. then it'd be time. Since it's not time yet, I have to assume there's more for me to work on.. so I'm looking for things.

The tough part is that a lot of what I have to work on is going to require the interaction with her.. I suppose part of Plan A.. while it's for -me- is being able to continue interacting with her so that I can show her my ability to compromise.. to not always be right.. to apologize and admit when I'm not.. to acknowledge her feelings and listen to what she has to say. Maybe in that way I can show her some of the things she's been missing.

It's a rough sitch.. though I'm under no illusions as to call it unique.. but I think she's ultimately going to seek the external validation.. as in, not within her relationship and Wonderboy's family.. to confirm that she's moving in the right direction.. having cut off her family, and DSD's family.. I may be the only option she has left to seek that validation through.. could be a large part of why she's being 'nice' to me these days... 2long touched on this.. maybe extending my Plan A out might not be the worst thing..

Greycloud (I think) did point out a few pages back though that it will come with a price.. and I'm starting to see what GC was talking about. The longer I hold the door open.. the harder it is.. I'm letting the cold in.. I'm letting my heat and comfort out..

I think it's really a matter of me getting focused on me.. being able to trust more that God will handle WW. I think the growing confidence that He is in control lets me focus on just having fun when I'm with my friends.. and it's been great. Heck.. the snowball fight the other day was the ultimate.. the hayride waiting line Halloween I had with DD and DS.. the fun we're going to have over Christmas.. If I can do those things without 'her' intruding into my thoughts all the time.. I know I'll be a much happier person.. and be able to truly enjoy the blessings of my children and friends throughout.

Haven't really been patting myself on the back for it.. just another step on a long and lonely road.

James,

Truly your walk with G-d and FAITH is an inspiration to me. I take comfort that we walk in similar paths and I have you to look ahead at and see how it's done.

G-d talks to me, but I don't always hear it the way I KNOW I hear it.

I cheer you and G-d on.

SG

One thing I can assure you of is that I have seen things come to pass for POWS...I have seen him face the consequences of his actions...DEFINITELY NOT IN MY TIME....

I can assure you that I would have liked for everything to smack him upside the head...spin it around and set it back straight...granted D was not my first choice but since it's come down to that...MY choice...I'll take it...

I completely understand what GC was talking about..questioning the price for PLan A running longer...I stayed dark for a long time before I was able to talk to him...I had to gather my strenght and really work on myself...find the core issue or what I think was the core issue to the destruction of my part of the M...once I was able to figure that out...I was ready to make a conscience choice to redefine the R with POWS...(BTW, it's piece of wayward s!!t)

At some point, and you will have to watch yourself closely, you will need to stop and take a breather, gather your strength, to fight a validate fight...

Just from the interaction that I have had recently, I find that I need to go dark for myself, perhaps just for a moment or a little longer...

WS are so wonderful at draining the BS with their lies, AO, SD, etc...

I have faith in you...and why not pat yourself on your back for these milestone? Noticing what you did not notice before...giving yourself a little praise for the strenght that you have in the here and now...give yourself permission to validate yourself...praise yourself from the inside...external validation is great but the internal praise is AWESOME!!

just my two cents!! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

James,

Patting yourself on your back is also giving G-d glory for the accomplishments and good work he is doing IN YOU, for YOU.

You and I have to remember we are his CHILD TOO, and it's ok to be GOOD to ourselves.

SG

Jamesus:

medc and Josie made me realize something, so I want 2 modify my recommendation 2 you regarding plan B (which you should use or toss as suits you):

Don't do it. Right now, your focus is on your kids. Getting the best custody/visitation arrangement you can possibly get before the DV is final is the obvious priority.

When is the DV final? You may have said, but I don't remember (a man can only store so much information with only 3 functioning brain cells, you know).

I think you're doing a fabulous job at a remote plan A. Maybe the way 2 go forward, once the child issues are resolved, is 2 morph that plan A in2 the best co-parenting interaction you can make. Work under the assumption that she will get her DV and you will have 2 even2ally come 2 grips with WonderPhlegm being in your kids lives.

After the DV is final, you can do what you want, but there won't be much point 2 plan B because plan B is for you 2 prepare 2 move on, and 2 show a WS what they're throwing away. And since she will have thrown it away at that point, all you should be concerned about, relationship-wise, is getting yourself past this experience so you can have another, more better relationship sometime down the line.

Then, let her worry about her consequences.

-ol' 2long

I'm trying to be good to myself, and I'm trying to look at the positives and the progress that I'm making.. and I -know- that I've made some wonderful progress on me.

I know that I'm capable of living a happy and fulfilling life on my own.. always have been..

What I'm struggling with today is.. well.. what my wife was complaining about while she was -in- our marriage.

I'm lonely..

I -feel- empty inside.. and I know that I can trust God to fill that up.. and it -SHOULD- be enough.

Maybe it is.. maybe I'm meant to suffer this to learn.

I am trying my best to be a good husband and father even in the events surrounding us.. to love, honor, and cherish her.. even though she does not want my love.. is acting dishonorably, and there's very little to cherish about someone who treats you like this.. who does this to the people you care most about.. who does this to themselves and their children..

And then she seems so happy.. like she really is moving on and going forward with her life.. it just seems so -wrong- that she's the one that is happy.. when she's leaving nothing but devistation, heartbreak, and busted lives in her wake.. that's the kicker for me.. that's what hurts.

I don't -want- her to be unhappy.. at the same time though, I'm starting to resent her for being happy... smiling while she rips my heart out..

Ahh.. there I go putting myself in the victim role again.. I really need to get off this rollercoaster.

I get to see my son tomorrow.. we're doing pictures again this week.. not with Santa this time though.. DD's biological mom works in the Photo department at Sears here in town.. and she's putting together a gift for DD's Christmas of all of DD's siblings, half siblings, step siblings etc.. I'm just very sad that DSD won't be part of that.. It'll be missing her.. all because of this.

Ugh.. more resentment piling on there..

I'm trying not to expect anything from my wife.. that way resentment doesn't build.. but it's hard -not- to at least hold the expectation that she's going to act like a decent human being through all of this.. but even that.. is an expectation.. and because it's so low.. the resentment factor when she doesn't rise to it.. is very high.

I'm trying to examine this objectively.... show myself where I'm going wrong.. where I'm getting stuck in all of this.. but it's hard to deal with sometimes.

She said several times that she didn't like the person she was becoming in our marriage... I have to wonder if she's looking at the person she's becoming outside of it.. how can you be happy with someone who would do this to their family.. their husband.. their kids.. how?

Ahhhhhhhhhhggh.. I have to stop thinking like this.. it's just ups and downs on the ride..

I have to get out of this rut.. I -hope- shopping for the kids tonight doesn't just add to it.

I dunno 2long.. there's a lot of defeatist in what you've said..

I know what I can do now.. I can continue doing what I have been doing for the last few weeks.. doing my Plan A from afar.. I can keep working on me.

Not sure what's to come after that.. but time will tell I guess.

I really want to save this M.. I don't want to D.. but ugh.. Plan A is typically so unsuccessful.. and with Plan B being out of reach..

*sigh*

Maybe I should talk to Steve or Jennifer and see what they say.. how to handle it in this delicate situation. My lawyer knows fukall about MB, and will probably tell me not to do -anything-.. which is probably good advice.. legally.

Oh.. as for when the D is final.. no clue.. it could be next week.. it could be next year.. I don't know.

Legal advice and relationship advice from trained professionals who focus on surviving infidelity are, as you know, 2 rather different topics.

By all means, call one of the Harleys. Even if you spend a few K on sessions with them, it will benefit you tremendously.

I know what I said sounds defeatest, but it's really not. Accepting that your W is doing what she's doing because that's just who she is right now isn't defeatism.

-ol' 2long