But you are stuck with people who care about you and are supporting you through this time.

Not to mention you have the highest authority on your side.

Hmmmm....since there is no legal custody arrangement in place.

What would happen if you refused to turn over DS if WB was there?

WH brought Bab's to my house one day to pick up DDs - I refused to turn them over. When he arrived driving her Jeep with her in the passenger seat, I walked up to his window and told him he would not be getting the children because he brought his trash with him.

He asked what he was supposed to do with her. I told him he could leave his trash alongside the road for all I cared, then I turned and walked into the house. Bab's sat there looking at me but not saying a word.

He never again brought Bab's to my home or any other place where we made child exchanges.

It is blatant disrespect and you should not have to tolerate it.

Plan B is tough with such a young child. I'm sure you've read enough to determine the advantages/disadvantages to you personally.



You're not looking for a response - you're just getting your own truth out there. She is conversing with you and telling you some of her feelings. Don't necessarily discount them as strictly fog talk. These things, whether right or wrong, may have been what led her to the A. Don't let them go unaddressed or she will be justified in believing you don't listen.

Fox

We have temporary orders in place giving her legal and physical custody of DS.. I doubt I could effectively do what you suggest Foxy. I'm hesitant to do anything to further damage my chances for custody.

Plan B isn't an option right now unfortunately.. I wish like heck it were.. just to be able to get off this rollercoaster.

I'm not looking for a response but I'm reasonably sure I'd get one.. more rattlesnake feeding I'm sure.

I also share your concern that now that she is revealing some of her 'feelings and thoughts' on the state of the M that if I do not respond or acknowledge them that she will continue her justifications..

That's why I was hoping to get some FWW input here.. still hoping for some.

Unfortunately I would imagine that all FWW's are with their spouses. Maybe next year we will have our own loves to share this day with.

Ahh yeah.. you're probably right about that Queenie..

Boy do I feel like Eeyore today..

LOL... I'm right here with you. I just don't have the advice you need. This is out of my league... I wish I could help more.

{{{{{{{{{{{James}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi James,

Are you in Plan A?

If you are, you aren't supposed to be trying to educate her.

And it's not a good idea to send her flowers b/c FLOWERS look NEEDY....not attractive.

Do not send your reply. It would not help your sitch in any way.

Has anyone given you the Do's and Don't list yet?

~ Marsh

Ok, I see, you are in a "modified Plan B".

Does that mean that you are only discussing the children at this point?

I don't understand the flowers.

~ Marsh

Nono.. I'm in Plan A..

I sent a little something for every member of my family in the 'far country'... flowers for WW, a heart charm for DSD, and a bear for our baby bear(DS)..

Just a little valentines for each person in the family.. I'd feel like a pretty crappy H if I didn't get my family something for Valentines yanno..

Thank you for clarifying, Jamesus. It is a tough spot. Maybe you can just make it uncomfortable enough that she chooses to stop doing it or she chooses to be uncomfortable.

I wouldn't ignore it, though. Address it each and every time it happens.

She is more than likely to spew her venom if you send your response. That doesn't mean she won't think about what you said and some of it won't ring true to her.

If you can let the venom slide off of you, let 'er rip.

If you are still fighting for the M, James, do not let this go unanswered. She is telling you what she is using to justify her actions - tell her your truth.

Fox

She'll continue her justifications, even IF you counter everything she said.

She won't hear what you say, b/c everything you will say will go through her wayward filter.

And it will open you up for more hurt and pain.

Plan B is about PROTECTING your love for her, until the A ends.

If you don't try to stay dark, she will kill your love for you before her A dies, and then there will be NO hope for recovery, b/c you WILL hate her.

~ Marsh

Oy Foxy.. I really want to..

I'm going to pray about it..

Marsh..

Well.. I've often been told that no PBL means no Plan B.. so I'm still in Plan A..

There's no Plan B yet other than me pulling back and withdrawing from the drama..

Then there was last night.. ick.

And of course the me feeling like a schmuck if I didn't get my family something for Valentines day.

Oh, ok. Your sig line said you were in a modified Plan B.

RE Flowers: What's done is done.

But, if you want to meet her need for affection, try to think smaller.

Since it was cold, you could have offered her her favorite hot drink when she pulled up.

The idea is to let her know you were thinking about her, by offering her a small, but thoughtful gift.

~ Marsh

OK, you gotta pick a plan here.

Is it a modified Plan B or not?



Well, feeling like a schmuck isn't the same thing as being one.

If you are in Plan A, and you want to change her feelings about you then you need to consider HER feelings.

~ Marsh

I'm not pushing, just keeping the thought of her not being heard at the forefront. How will she know that she IS heard if she gets no response to her concerns.

She WILL continue to justifty, she WILL spew venom. That does not mean she did not hear YOU.

There are a few digs here and there in your response - if you want to do a true Plan A - take them out. If you want her to get a true feel for the hurt it causes you, modify them. It also won't break the bank to tell it like it is.

Fox

There are enough DJ's in your reply for her to discount any truth that is there.

Plus, it is neither part of plan A or part of Plan B...modified, or otherwise.

~ Marsh

A judgement isn't always disrespectful. She may not like it, but that does not make it disrespectful.

She could also determine that an offer of a warm drink on a cold day when she comes to pick up DS is a LB. "James ought to KNOW I just wants to get their son and James KNOWS WB is out on the car waiting for her, James is just trying to worm his way between us"

Waywards can turn ANYTHING into a DJ or a LB.

James could say "I love you" and it would be a LB.

Fox

I would send it, DJs or not. Its not like its going to make your situation worse. If she's in a fog, its a thick one, and she's not going to be coaxed out of it with flowers and Plan A, I think that's been amply demonstrated. I might suggest you remove the WB insults, as that's what she'll key on and its the least important thing you have to say in that letter.

Send her a nice helping of truth for Valentines Day.

Jamesus,

Whatever you do

DO NOT SEND YOUR REPLY.

It is absolutely unrelated to her message. Your reply is what she would expect. (My reply, however, probably is a far cry from what she might think she'd get.)


Her message really speaks to the emotional needs which she needs you to hear, and you didn't hear them when she said them in the marriage according to her

nor did you see them in the email.

They are these:

She felt abandoned by you due to too much time spent with the band. Emotional needs unmet there were time with her, and outward affection and admiration of her. She felt like you spent the time and affection and admiration on the band and the members of it, not on her. Big, glaring, neon signs in her email. She practically screams it at you.

Need for better communication with you. Her email points out over and over that she needs to be able to feel safe in talking with you, instead of being made to feel somehow less than you. In many of her sentences, she makes reference to feeling somehow beneath you, whether feeling overprotected by you, treated like a barbie doll, or being told what to do. Somewhere in your relationship the communication style between the two of changed to the point where she felt controlled or overwhelmed, and that your style was just "bigger" than hers. This email is her way of "taking back" her control - a vent, true, but the message she really is trying to convey is that she is trying to say what she has wanted to say for some time, and needs you to hear it. My guess is that she doesn't even know this consciously, and is feeling kind of strange today after having said what she said.

She also probably doesn't know if she should have said it, and is waiting for the 2X4 back - and you should NOT give it to her, because this may make a HUGE change for the positive in your relationship if you stop yourself from jumping on her for it.


Another thing I noted, is that she shows vunerability here. There is a fear in her that she thinks you are undermining her to her son, saying things to him that are either demeaning to her or that run her down. You can use this in your favor by turning it around - the VERY NEXT TIME YOU ARE TOGETHER, IN FRONT OF YOUR SON, MAKE IT A POINT TO TELL HIM WHAT A WONDERFUL MOTHER HE HAS. You will make a deposit into her love bank, and take some of the fear away. It will reduce some of the anger at the same time.

A good idea might be to send a valentine to her, from him. In the valentine, tell her that she is a wonderful mother - if you have ONE SINGLE example, say it. Even if there is only one example, use that. I have not read the entire thread, but I'm sure you can think of at least one time in the life of your son when she did something great for him. Put that memory in the valentine, and tell her (for him) what a great time it was and thank her for it. This is a concrete way to diffuse the fear, and also the anger for this one specific detail in her message. You can attack this kind of thing, and keep on the attack, by repeating the message in similar ways in the future. Public thanks for a good job, public compliments, should help in this regard.


There is some babble, yes. The words "never" when she talks of the future, well, you know how people talk when they are angry. She is angry.

There is also an entitled feeling she is carrying. She is impatient, having to wait for you and her son to get ready. I would suspect the impatience isn't new, or if it is, then I would say it is linked to her being uncomfortable around the situation of having the boyfriend in the driveway of her husband. Of course she doesn't want to hang around there too long.......but I also find it quite interesting that she brings him there. I would tell you there is meaning in that, but at this point I cannot say what the meaning is. I would suspect it is to get a rise out of you.

For suggestions on a reply, if you want to send one, read the next post.

SB

Great post, SB.

I've only read the last few pages too, but I see what you see too.

Just one thing, I think, she brought OM's son w/ her when she stopped at Jame's home, not OM.

~ Marsh