How did you think I handled the text exchange with WW?

I think it was full of disrespectful judgements and LB's. It would be better if your family was left completely out of it since she is sensitive about your family.

Also, she knows she cheated and there is no sense rubbing her nose in it. It would be better for you to QUIT talking about your relationship. I think I have mentioned that before.

She is still foggy. But she SHOULD come out of the fog. She will get tired of waiting around for OM. In the meantime, you need to figure out what needs of hers he was meeting and start trying to meet them yourself.

I understand your need for some positive signs from your WW, however...

* You cannot "teach" a WS, or impact their mindset with "truth or facts".

* Wayward women, especially, sometimes stand by their goofy, illogical actions for the longest time, because of their pride, and their failure to admit to themselves they made bad choices.

* There is no magic button. All this takes great amounts of time, coupled with positive actions from the BS. You are in too big of a hurry to "see results".

* Plan A calls for you to correct any/all of the things YOU bring to the marriage that are not conducive to a healthy marriage. Stopping LoveBusters is also part of Plan A and self improvement. Continuing to hurl her infidelity in her face in a confrontation tone will get you nowhere.

* Actions, positive actions, by a BS, over a reasonable amount of time (3 to 6 months), are what make a difference. She must see that you are ready to, and will apologize for the negatives you brought to the marriage, and any shortcomings you may have. You have to stand in the mirror and be completely honest with yourself about these things, and begin changing/improving immediately, without expection of any notice for weeks, maybe a month or two. You must court her like you just met her, and treat her like a lady, not like she's the enemy.

* You must meet all the needs of hers that you can, without ANY expectation of any of your needs being met.

* You must calm down and pay little attention to what she says, because she speaks only fog! It makes no sense.

* Likewise, don't try to find "meaning" in text messages, phone calls or conversations of any kind, because she is on Wayward Autopilot, driven only by her desire to get a "fix" from the OM. Remember, she is an addict.

* If No Contact stays in place you are looking at a minimum of 3 months of Withdrawal. During this time your WW will be a walking zombie, feeling all sorry for herself, and basking in the muck she's created. Execute Plan A during this time.

* Settle down, study the MB philosophy, work it every day, and when she passes through withdrawal you will see a great deal of improvement. Then it's a matter of rebuilding your marriage using MB principals.

* You have to believe in your efforts, before this will work for you. You will have to stuff you emotions and believe in the end results. No one thing you do will make any difference at all. It is the cumulative effect of EVERYTHING you do that makes the DIFFERENCE!

Best wishes,
SD

I agree but WW keeps bringing my family into it as a way to get the spotlight off her A. She thinks she can do or say anything and get away with it. I'm getting sick of being the one to give in all the time and keeping her appeased.

I did not side with my family in the exchange rather tried to stay out of it as she brought that on herself and I don't want to get involved.

OM was meeting conversation and admiration, the latter being very hard to meet as there is nothing to admire about her the way she is at the moment.

Vladie...have you learned how to listen and repeat when your WW speaks?

I believe it would be really helpful to save your marriage, change your life. Where you don't refute her stuff...you KNOW her stuff as hers, not yours.

Her truth from The Truth.

There's no giving in and no appeasing (is that a word?). You could blow OM out of the water with this one choice...and find deep and real admiration and appreciation for yourself...so you'll see it better in your wife (agreed...this was really hard for me to see in WH and his #1 EN was admiration).

I did it anyway...authentically. You can, too.

Hope this helps,

LA

Thank you all for your responses. Please continue to post to me please. I am going to step back and get on with things. Improve my life and have fun with my Son. If WW wants to join us thats fine but I will not be initiating contact with her - I want her to come to me

Vladie -

I am copying a post that was written by BobPure to a woman here today. But it applies to you equally.


"I know how you feel Sinking, honestly.Hurts doesn't it ? I never knew a hurt like it.

And you deserve a pity party....

But the pain won't go away until you remove the source of it. You must pull the arrow. Lance the abscess. Being rolled along by the flow of events that are controlled by the waywards is NOT the best thing for you kids or yourself. I know this to be true.

Its dreadful, enfeebling, destroying Sinking. You can do any one of three things in response:

1. Continue to tolerate your WHs behaviour while choking down your pain in fear like MIKE did ( click here) . His example is a cautionary tale as to what can happen if you don't take a stand. Mike "hoped" his W would see the light too. It was not good for his marrige or his family. Caution is not your friend right now. I KNOW this.

2. Divorce your WH as you suggest you would do if you were not afraid, while you are angry and in pain and not thinking straight. Even God (He cares for you at this time, even if you don't care for Him) allows it for adultery HE understands how uniquely painful it is for us. But divorce doesn't remove pain. The issues still need to be worked.

3. Be a HERO and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a f'ked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain.
Sinking your WH has never needed you to be a HERO as much as she does right now. He is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OW.
Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing.

I know exactly how you feel that everything is scary, and you can't change the situation but that is your emotional response, not fact.

You owe it to your boys, yourself, your WH and the vow you made before God to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation. Pity parties are no use - Harley says that - but you must make lemonade out of lemons.

Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures.
Whatever either of you decides permanently while hurting now will be regretted in future I guarantee it.

I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a spouse than to be what their family needs in troubled times, particularly when she doesn't feel capable of so being.

Be a warrior queen, not a maid. Take control of yourself and spread your calm through all your lives. Be restrained and objectived.

In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery.

Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your WH needs you to save him from himself. Are you up to the challenge, Sinking ?

I'm just a bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I have never been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life. Understand that NOTHING YOU CAN DO
can make you lose your WH any more than he is already lost to you.

Study MB. Address your issues. Love your H while understanding the dynamics affecting his behaviour and thought processes right now. You wil be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking affirmative, brave action against your troubles.

And it starts now with being the wife your husband doesn't currently deserve and the mother your kids DO deserve. And that means a SH1T load more than giving them a pity party.

Your calm and decency will shine like a beacon against the chaos of your WHs actions, and it WILL make an impression on the good man that is captive beneath all his fog.

Hunker down for the long run but DEAR GOD it WILL be worth it. My life is transformed now - genuinely happy from a situation where that seemed impossible. But you have to calm down against your every instinct and act up.

Stop the passive meekness. You're entitled to it but as Dr. Phil would say "how's THAT workin' out for ya?"
Read ALL the articles on this site. Buy "Surviving an affair". Sit at the feet of Mel, Ark, WAT, Just Learning ,Pep and the other battle scarred but proud warriors who have pulled SO MANY of us from the firestorm over the years. And have faith that you can do this.

Then start to identify people in OWs life that might apply a moral pressure on her if they knew of her affair. Her BH MUST know , don't believe the separating story until the BH himself has told you. WS lie even to their OPs.

Also have you exposed to your WH's wider family and friends yet ? Exposure is a very effective tool. I shared your fears about exposure making things worse, but how ON EARTH can this get worse ?

Even if it happens, your WH moving out is only a nett loss to you if you value the corrupt , toxic sham of a marriage you have right now over a dignified independence.

I don't stop by here too often but If I can help you can find me.

I leave you with my question again : "What would you do if you were not afraid ?"

You are looking for the magic button...

You need to be the bait that attracts her, by your positive actions.

I've been on these forums a good long time, and the number of WW who break down, fall to their knees begging for forgiveness and a chance to return to the marriage are VERY few and far between.

Nearly all WW who DO return to the marriage are attracted back to their spouse because of Plan A actions that have been done well, and done consistantly.

What we Betrayed Spouses "wish" for in the way things "should be" is way far away from what it really takes to reconnect with a Wayward Spouse.

You need to re-evaluate your expectations....completely....for your own sake...

SD

Ok. But what I mean is that I keep asking her to go to the beach or something on a sunday but she refuses all the time. She does not want to string me along or be accused of it by anyone. Therefore she avoids spending time with me until I accept that M is over.

Should I stop asking her to come with us? Or should I say ok I know the marriage is over and I don't want you back? Its an impossible situation!

You ask her to go with you and your child and she chooses not to...then you respond "well you are going to miss out on a good time" and go anyway.

Stop trying to think of words that will hurt her.

Choose words that will leave her longing for the life you are living "in spite of her".

You are REACTING to every word she says, as if you had no plan.

Use the plan (MB) here at your fingertips, and ACT in a manner conducive to a good marriage (Plan A) and quit hanging on her every word.

She's an Addict, she speaks only fog and nonsense.

She baits you, and you fall for it EVERY time. Do you see the problem?

It is not impossible. Invite her and if she says no, then take your son and go alone, and take some pictures. Also you need to make a strong effort to get out and do some things and meet some people and HAVE SOME FUN.

How did the two of you meet? Why was she attracted to you? What went wrong to change things?

We met when we were kids me 15 and she 13. So we grew up together mostly in my house. She was attracted to me cause I was older had a bit of a rep and a motorbike etc. A bit too cool back then. As for what went wrong - well since our Son was born she felt trapped and had a touch of postnatal depression and she felt my mother and sister were not supportive of her. She loved going to work to escape and there was the wonderful OM and the beginning of a wonderful fantasy for her.

WW sent email to my sisters husband asking him to suggest that my parents come over to me for christmas as it would do me good. He says if she wants me to move on then she should limit contact with me to as little as possible.

I feel like a pathetic fool. She really wants to move on and everyone just thinks I should too. Aren't WW's not suppose to care at all? It seems she still cares for me but not in a husband way. Am I just fooling myself? How can I plan A when everyone is telling her not to spend time with me and not to string me along??????????????????

Vladie - If she didn't care or was DONE with you, she wouldn't keep thinking about you and talking to you. Show her the Vladie she fell in love with. Stop talking about the relationship and make a nice life for yourself. I'm sure she will start having second thoughts.

believer,

That was a beautiful post you posted here by BobPure. Can we post it on the main board?

Vladie,

That BobPure post is SO true. I was in that position, holding on to a secret that wasn't my own. It was killing me as surely as the A was killing my husband.

When everyone here goaded me into action that day...geez, I can't thank everyone enough! I feel so much better, even though H isn't here right now. I'm still in Plan A and I hope I don't have to go to Plan B but if I do, I know everyone here plus God and family will help me find the strength to do this.

My H treats me with respect and courtesy again when we interact. I know he still feels the electricity between us but I have been able to hold on to myself and not cave in to dropping the suit I had to initiate to protect myself and our finances.

It's hard, but once you get going, it gets a LOT easier!

Stay strong, Vladie, we are behind you 100%!!!

Posted to another BS by Myrevelation...


This is not about your wife, it's about you and what you are going to do.

Ok so I need to start getting on with my own life with or without WW but still remain open to working on our marriage?
I have a few questions that I would appreciate some help with. I never bring up relationship talks - its usually she who says I need to move on etc. and its not about OM as thats over but that has shown her that she has nothing to give to our M and is not in love with me.

How should I respond to this?

When she says 'Vladie I'm not going to come back please move on, I want to remain friends for our Sons sake but thats it. Can you accept that? How should I respond?

OM has nothing to do with it. He was just a catalyst that made me realise how unhappy I was. How should I respond?

I just want to do whats best for our Son given the situation we are in now. What should I say?

When she enlists the help of my family or friends to tell me to get over it and move on what should I say to them?

If she asks me directly have I accepted her decision what should I say?

These are all the things she brings up and I not sure really how to deal with. I do not initiate R talks.

I see her when collecting and dropping our Son. I will talk and be nice with no R talks and if we going somewhere I will ask if she wants to join us. Does that sound ok to everyone? If she refuses and says no and please accept her decision again what do I say?

Thanks

Vladie - You can accept her decision because that is how she FEELS right now. But that may change, and usually does. So when she says she wants to be good parents for your son, you can agree. When she tells friends to tell you to "get on with your life", you can agree that you are doing that.

When she says OM was just a catalyst, you can agree, and let her know you are sorry for the things that made her unhappy.

You sound like a great guy, and I admire you for standing up for your family. We need more men like you in the world.

I hope you are not just sitting around obsessing about your wife. You need to make a good life for YOU. I know it is hard, but I did it and so can you.

You could also tell her that you are tired of discussing problems and just want to have some fun.

I hope there is no issue with your son's citizenship. Was he born in the country where you live? Are you there for good?

I have seen written here Steve Harley's advice to others in this situation.

Acknowledge and ignore....continue on with the discussion attempting to plan a.

He advises to always attempt to take some conversation to:

"What is the ideal resolution of this matter...wouldn't you agree that the best case scenario is for us to reconcile and build a marriage of extraordinary care???"


Plan A doesn't mean you can't let her know the consequences of her decisions. I believe the carrot and stick approach contained in my signature line expresses that clearly.

You should be making it clear that it's marriage or nothing. You WILL NOT remain friends with her. Real friends don't cheat on you. Real friends don't deceive you. She has. She is your wife and although at this moment you aren't too sure about your feelings for her as well, you have no intention of remaining friends with her should you divorce. That would be a terrible message to send and model to children. (see kids...mom can lie to dad...cheat on him...throw him away...and he is EXPECTED to just put up with it and be "friends"). Not gonna happen. Husband and wife is ALL you want to consider.

You don't talk divorce. You talk reconciliation. Questions about divorce/separation are to be directed to your attorney.

Family, friends and wife should all be told you have a plan (don't reveal the plan until they WANT it) but you have a plan to rebuild your marriage and YOU KNOW that is the best alternative and will not hear tell of anything contrary. Friends should be told "If she wants a divorce...SHE'LL have to carry that entire load...I will NOT comply and my attorney will fight it.

BE STUBBORN.

But yet maintain nuetrality. Don't get mad or upset. You ARE attacking her mindset but not allowing her (or others) responses to invade your mind, deter you, upset you.

YOU ACT...don't react.

Just keep asking her to come along. One thing I did which may work for you in Plan A. Acknowledge the fog talk from WW. Say things like "OK...I understand" and "Mmmm...so you are saying you want to be friends". But flip the "friendship" thing to TODAY. Things like "come on...join us...this whole thing doesn't have to be filled with so much animosity...IF we may be ending lets at least end enjoying these last few months together...I don't want to look back 5 years from now and only remember miserable times during this potential breakup. We both need a break and it will do the kids good to see us out getting along. What do you say? (smiling and happy go lucky...NO desperation).

Use her desire to remain friends to manipulate yourself some Plan A times together. Don't hammer the we won't be friends after divorce card too much if this strategy works to get you some face time. When you get the face time don't initiate relationship talk but try to listen, listen, listen. Every word you get her to say is meeting her needs. You don't have to agree...just let her talk.

Enough for now. Her words and actions are straight from the wayward playbook. Have confidence. YOU ARE God's perfect gift to her so your Plan A efforts should be rewarded because you KNOW how best to meet her needs. She disregards you to her own peril as you attempt to save her (and your family) from the misery she seems ****** bent on pursuing.

good luck Vladie

Mr. Wondering